Brazilian Jiu Jitsu - General Thread

rondog · 30-08-2018 4:05pm

What d1ck.I would have thought a black belt woudlhave some discipline and consideration and not try to put someone in a wheelchair.

Fracture · 30-08-2018 4:33pm

laoch na mona wrote: »

Have you gone to a physio

nah, i'm only looking into getting some sort of treatment now. I didnt realise it was as bad as it is. Would you recommend physio first?

Fracture · 30-08-2018 4:38pm

TheSegal wrote: »

First of all, did you say what happened to the head trainer in your club after it happened? A neck injury can be really serious and the guy should have really been spoken to after it happened to ensure it doesn't happen again. Nothing worse than someone with a big ego getting frustrated and getting reckless with inexperienced people.

Second, ask in the club if anyone knows and recommends a physio. A neck issue is something you need to get looked at regardless of if you make it back to training or not as it is going to pop up again later in life if not treated. Destroyed tendons and connective tissue in my knee when I was younger, like a typical young lad I said 'f**k it, it'll be fine', and now I struggle with knee pain during BJJ which is taking a long time to rehab.

Anyways, best of luck with the recovery and hope to find out you got back on the mat injury free!

Nah, in fairness I was fairly new myself and didnt realise it was a fairly serious thing to do.
I did mention it to a few of the other lads in the gym, they were not impressed and i think they might have got on to him about it.
I've only realised in the last few weeks that this injury is gonna be a recurring thing if i dont get it sorted.

Tazzimus · 30-08-2018 4:38pm

If the hospital could find no issues with bones/discs etc in your neck, physio might be a good next option.
Isn't there a different scan you can get apart from an xray that shows other damage, i.e not bone damage.

As you can tell, I'm a highly qualified doctor with that description

Fracture · 30-08-2018 4:42pm

rondog wrote: »

What d1ck.I would have thought a black belt woudlhave some discipline and consideration and not try to put someone in a wheelchair.

He was new to BJJ, he's young and has a big head. I say it probably got to him a bit that he couldnt get me.
I'm falling behind because of this f***in injury, every time i go back in to train it feels like ive gotten worse. It's hard to beat regular training.
I've moved down the country since and i've joined a different gym but im not goin back in until i get this neck of mine sorted.

Fracture · 30-08-2018 4:44pm

Tazzimus wrote: »

If the hospital could find no issues with bones/discs etc in your neck, physio might be a good next option.
Isn't there a different scan you can get apart from an xray that shows other damage, i.e not bone damage.

As you can tell, I'm a highly qualified doctor with that description

lol, yeh im no doctor either, maybe its a cat scan your talking about, im not sure myself to be honest.
I'm thinking maybe some kind of massage therapy or sports injury clinic. My bank account isnt anything to boast about so i wanna use my funds wisely.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 30-08-2018 4:46pm

Devils advocate here.

Maybe the other guy didn't want to tap you. I learn nothing by tapping out white belts.

You mentioned here a few times that he couldn't tap you, did you do the same in the club?.. I don't tap or throw beginners, esp new white belts but its very annoying when you hear them brag that a black belt couldn't sub or throw them.

Were you working take downs at the time?. And were you taught how to fall?.

Injuries suck, and as you've said you've had a number of them. Are you out of condition with very bad flexibility?.

Rehab the neck properly, a good physio is a must. But see if the club is covered by insurance because a physio is going to cost you money, a lot of it.

If you return to training don't train with this guy, esp take downs. Black belts in tradition JJ should have pretty decent take downs, but if you tensed up during the take down its really hard for the person throwing you to do it with complete safety and not sacrifice himself to harm.

Learn to break fall.

Neck injuries are a scourge. I was neck cranked by an idiot in a BJJ class over 15 years ago, it still niggles at me. In a Judo class last year I got a bad on when another black belt turned me over on the ground, but my head was caught between his legs, so my body rotated around my head.

So I feel your pain and frustration with the injury.

TitianGerm · 30-08-2018 4:57pm

Phoebe Full Overlap wrote: »

Devils advocate here.

Maybe the other guy didn't want to tap you. I learn nothing by tapping out white belts.

You mentioned here a few times that he couldn't tap you, did you do the same in the club?.. I don't tap or throw beginners, esp new white belts but its very annoying when you hear them brag that a black belt couldn't sub or throw them.

This is what I was thinking. Was the OP just being stubborn and not tapping/not being a very good training partner and the other guy just lost the head?

Still no excuse mind you.

Fracture · 30-08-2018 5:01pm

Phoebe Full Overlap wrote: »

Devils advocate here.

Maybe the other guy didn't want to tap you. I learn nothing by tapping out white belts.

You mentioned here a few times that he couldn't tap you, did you do the same in the club?.. I don't tap or throw beginners, esp new white belts but its very annoying when you hear them brag that a black belt couldn't sub or throw them.

Were you working take downs at the time?. And were you taught how to fall?.

Injuries suck, and as you've said you've had a number of them. Are you out of condition with very bad flexibility?.

Rehab the neck properly, a good physio is a must. But see if the club is covered by insurance because a physio is going to cost you money, a lot of it.

If you return to training don't train with this guy, esp take downs. Black belts in tradition JJ should have pretty decent take downs, but if you tensed up during the take down its really hard for the person throwing you to do it with complete safety and not sacrifice himself to harm.

Learn to break fall.

Neck injuries are a scourge. I was neck cranked by an idiot in a BJJ class over 15 years ago, it still niggles at me. In a Judo class last year I got a bad on when another black belt turned me over on the ground, but my head was caught between his legs, so my body rotated around my head.

So I feel your pain and frustration with the injury.

Nah, i've no problem in tapping, he was trying chokes etc or arm bars but i could escape them. I would tap to anyone who gets me, its not a problem. There wasnt any chat about him being a JJ black belt, if anything it was just about how quick he could move.
He just managed to get behind me, it wasnt exactly possible to land safely when im landing on the top of my head lol.

I've moved down the country now so im at a different gym (although i cant train at the minute), so i wont be rolling with him. I actually ignored him on the mat after that, its not something i liked doing but he was just dangerous.

Im not too bad with flexibility, i surf quite a bit and im pretty fit, breaking the fall was one of the first things i learned, it not usually a problem.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 30-08-2018 5:22pm

Two sides to every story and all that.

When you return to training, don't brag about not getting tapped. You'll be putting a target on your back. I'm not saying that's what you did, but its how you came across, and I've been around this game a very long time.

That said, on the flip side of the coin there are bullies and idiots everywhere (even experienced black belts). Since you're in a new club now you don't have to avoid the guy anymore.

If you do return to training try waiting until you're completely injury free.

Although its ok to point out to a partner that you've an injury and expect them to work around it. Its annoying for training partners if that's a constant.

Try another style of martial arts maybe?.. BJJ is very 'in' at the moment but there are lots of equally enjoyable martial arts out there which won't put so much stress on your neck and other injuries.

darced · 30-08-2018 6:20pm

Fracture wrote: »

I'm having a bit of trouble,
i started BJJ around April 2017. I love it but i'm constantly injured.
I'd say maybe last October a new guy started, he is a black belt in traditional JJ, anyway he's much younger than me, more athletic and quicker but couldnt tap me. I think a bit of frustration got to him, he ended up behind me while standing and decided to suplex me, almost breaking my neck.
I could hear the crunching as i landed.......he still didnt tap me lol. Anyway i didnt feel the pain until the next day and it resulted in me being out injured for over a month. Now, every time i get back to training i get the same injury, my neck, shoulder and back completly cramp up.
Feburary this year it happened again and it put me out of action again, only this time for over 3 months, i was in hospital because of the pure agony i was in, all the pain killers in the world didnt get the pain to go away. When it finally eased off and i felt good enough to get back training it happened again.
I havent been back in the gym since. The hospital done an xray, no skeletal damage was found. So it must be muscle they said. There is a spot on my neck that when i touch is really painful, i'm actually avoiding going back training because of this, I dont wanna go through that pain again but I love the sport.
What treatment would you guys recommend?
I don't wanna waste money on the wrong treatment and i'm only realising now that this seems to possibly be permanent damage on my neck and im only really looking into getting this fixed properly now.
Any help or advice would be great.

Thanks lads/ladies!:)

Did you get an MRI scan? If you didnt you need one.

I had a very similar sounding injury. Took a while for the pain really to kick in too. I ended up crawling about the house trying to get help. I got admitted to hospital where I got an MRI and it was two slipped discs. I had numbness in my hand as well though which they said was a classic sign of disc trouble. I wouldn't go near a physio if you haven't had an MRI. The neck is a bitch.

RoboRat · 31-08-2018 9:26am

Are you sure it was a suplex and not just a sit down sweep after taking the back?

Anyhow, in regards to the injury, don't train until it's right. Go to a Physio or a Chiropractor and get them to look at it. Get an MRI if you haven't already and I wouldn't take a doctors opinion as gospel, they can be wrong and I have found this out the hard way. If in doubt, always get a second opinion.

A physio will give you a rehab plan, do it and don't skip or alter it. Ask them what you can and cannot do... Swimming is usually recommended as it's low impact but the physio will give you the right exercises.

Get the back sorted as if one disc goes out, others will go out to compensate and soon you will have a spine like an S, this will affect everything from sitting to walking so take the time, get it right and then go back.

Fracture · 31-08-2018 10:06am

Phoebe Full Overlap wrote: »

Two sides to every story and all that.

When you return to training, don't brag about not getting tapped. You'll be putting a target on your back. I'm not saying that's what you did, but its how you came across, and I've been around this game a very long time.

That said, on the flip side of the coin there are bullies and idiots everywhere (even experienced black belts). Since you're in a new club now you don't have to avoid the guy anymore.

If you do return to training try waiting until you're completely injury free.

Although its ok to point out to a partner that you've an injury and expect them to work around it. Its annoying for training partners if that's a constant.

Try another style of martial arts maybe?.. BJJ is very 'in' at the moment but there are lots of equally enjoyable martial arts out there which won't put so much stress on your neck and other injuries.

Yeh i will try and get an MRI done. I was more bragging about it on here tbh, it was just that after flinging me on my neck he still didnt get me. I can't do much bragging about not getting tap'd as i tap more than i submit lol.

Fracture · 31-08-2018 10:13am

darced wrote: »

Did you get an MRI scan? If you didnt you need one.

I had a very similar sounding injury. Took a while for the pain really to kick in too. I ended up crawling about the house trying to get help. I got admitted to hospital where I got an MRI and it was two slipped discs. I had numbness in my hand as well though which they said was a classic sign of disc trouble. I wouldn't go near a physio if you haven't had an MRI. The neck is a bitch.

It could well be a similar injury, my left shoulder lifted higher up than my right shoulder, it was almost tucked in under my jaw if you know what i mean and i had constant throbing running from the top of my neck right down my left arm and seemed to focus on my elbow. I was taking pain killers before bed, then i was up at 3am for more, then up at 6.30 again for more every night for around 2 and a half months. It hasnt been that bad since but every time i get injured again its like half the pain of the injury at its worst stage.

Fracture · 31-08-2018 10:19am

RoboRat wrote: »

Are you sure it was a suplex and not just a sit down sweep after taking the back?

Anyhow, in regards to the injury, don't train until it's right. Go to a Physio or a Chiropractor and get them to look at it. Get an MRI if you haven't already and I wouldn't take a doctors opinion as gospel, they can be wrong and I have found this out the hard way. If in doubt, always get a second opinion.

A physio will give you a rehab plan, do it and don't skip or alter it. Ask them what you can and cannot do... Swimming is usually recommended as it's low impact but the physio will give you the right exercises.

Get the back sorted as if one disc goes out, others will go out to compensate and soon you will have a spine like an S, this will affect everything from sitting to walking so take the time, get it right and then go back.

Nah, it was fully standing. He wraped his arms around my waist, picked me up and flung me over his back, while still holding my waist. I landed directly on my head and my neck bent to the right. When he let go to get mount i turned on my back and went into guard. Adrenaline was pumping so i didnt feel the pain until the next day.

I'll definately look into getting an MRI first, then follow on with talking to a physio/chiropractor.

Black Sheep · 01-09-2018 10:04am

An MRI will give you a clear picture of the condition of your discs. If you are of a certain age, or have been playing sports for a while, it's quite possible that you might be told you have some degeneration of the discs, maybe a bulging disc, maybe some spondylosis. If you link this to your training, and specifically, to the supplex incident you mention, you could be correct. However, it's worth bearing in mind that there is a lot of debate the relationship between what shows up on an MRI and back and neck pain. It's thought that if you were to MRI a cross section of the general population that many people who are without symptoms (i.e are pain free, they're not aware they have a back or neck problem) would turn out to have similar MRI results to some people who do have symptoms. And some people who have full on herniations don't report pain, and yet people with quite mild bulges or no bulges at all report chronic pain and discomfort. I think there is a feeling that although some people do have disc problems caused either by acute injuries (getting supplexed onto your neck etc), or maybe whose problems are linked to particularly bad postural problems, a lot of what MRIs show about discs just has to do with the natural way aging affects them. And the relationship between a problem disc and the level of pain someone has is not clear cut or well understood. Neither is how to relieve it. Probably a genetic lottery involved too.

I feel like a lot of people who return to training following neck and back issues are going to manage or not going forward on the strength of how they change the way they train. The positions they play, how early they tap, how they roll with heavier, risky partners etc. Physios are fine, but to be honest I think a lot of them are taking a shot in the dark when it comes to the neck.

Tazzimus · 01-09-2018 10:13am

Black Sheep wrote: »

I think it's possible to return to BJJ following a problem with your neck - many people do, even people who cannot treat their problem conservatively and are forced into surgery - but I think mainly it's a matter of being able to change your training. Proactively avoiding reinjury by giving up positions voluntarily where necessary, tapping early, opting out of death matches with the one hundred and twenty kilo twenty year old white belt etc.

If, for the sake of argument, you did a few sessions with a physio who gave you some woo exercises to do involving nerve flossing and neck stretching, and you felt better (probably because the inflammation died down, actually, and less to do with what the physio had you do), then it's no use if you are caught in a fairly crappy triangle and decide to tough it out because you're not actually choking. Just tap rather than get stacked or having your neck cranked / head squeezed.

Kavangh is a good example of that, neck/back issues but can still train, just knows what not to go for or get stuck in.

I believe he damaged his being stacked while trying to get someone much larger with a triangle and refusing to let it go despite being badly stacked.

I have a dodgy hand and knees so I'm always wary of positions that could wreck them, and if necessary, just tap early to avoid further damage. Not worth it in the long run.

eeloe · 03-09-2018 10:37am

Just jumping back in here.

Broken toes are fully healed, and i'm booked in for an MRI(should have an appointment letter sometime this week) on my knee, and i wanna get back training ASAP....the rest of the lads are turning in to savages, and i'm here, doing feck all.

When i get the MRI done, who do i bring the results to, will my GP be able to go through them, or should i go to someone higher up the chain?

Dtp1979 · 03-09-2018 11:35am

eeloe wrote: »

Just jumping back in here.

Broken toes are fully healed, and i'm booked in for an MRI(should have an appointment letter sometime this week) on my knee, and i wanna get back training ASAP....the rest of the lads are turning in to savages, and i'm here, doing feck all.

When i get the MRI done, who do i bring the results to, will my GP be able to go through them, or should i go to someone higher up the chain?

Get a physio who knows how to read mri scans

eeloe · 03-09-2018 1:12pm

Just called my physio, he said my GP would be better looking at it?

Dtp1979 · 03-09-2018 2:04pm

eeloe wrote: »

Just called my physio, he said my GP would be better looking at it?

I know from experience some Physio’s don’t read MRI’s. Some do. Also make sure your physio is an actual physio and not some quack spinologist or similar

Black Sheep · 03-09-2018 3:01pm

To clarify, a radiologist is the professional who will look at your MRI images and send a written report on same to the doctor or consultant who ordered it.

You can show the images and / or the report to anyone you wish afterwards - including your physiotherapist. I'd be surprised if they were going to second guess what the radiologist has concluded, however, as it's not something their training addresses.

Dtp1979 · 03-09-2018 4:18pm

Black Sheep wrote: »

To clarify, a radiologist is the professional who will look at your MRI images and send a written report on same to the doctor or consultant who ordered it.

You can show the images and / or the report to anyone you wish afterwards - including your physiotherapist. I'd be surprised if they were going to second guess what the radiologist has concluded, however, as it's not something their training addresses.

I don’t doubt they’ll second guess the radiologist. I’d like to think they have a look and come up with the best treatment to fix the issue

eeloe · 04-09-2018 10:24am

Ah i just thought the people who do the MRI are trained in just using the machine and a specialist/GP will be the one to determine what's actually happened.

Nice to know that the report will be sent to the GP saying what's wrong. nice one.

Mellor · 06-09-2018 11:50pm

eeloe wrote: »

Ah i just thought the people who do the MRI are trained in just using the machine and a specialist/GP will be the one to determine what's actually happened.

Nice to know that the report will be sent to the GP saying what's wrong. nice one.

The report is pretty clear and concise. "MCL, grade 2 tear, proximal to ..."
You'll be able to understand it yourself with a bit of google.

Awesomeness · 07-09-2018 12:04am

On a similar injury note ive been dealing with a bad shoulder for a few years now from other sports. With bjj it was just inflexible before but now It seems to pop. Little thins like arm drags or the big one when I shoot and someone sprawls. Its painful but more than that I just lose all power and am basically going with one arm.

So question is would people suggest some physio first or go to doctor and for MRI? I want to compete and its making it impossible to do so

darced · 07-09-2018 12:43pm

Awesomeness wrote: »

On a similar injury note ive been dealing with a bad shoulder for a few years now from other sports. With bjj it was just inflexible before but now It seems to pop. Little thins like arm drags or the big one when I shoot and someone sprawls. Its painful but more than that I just lose all power and am basically going with one arm.

So question is would people suggest some physio first or go to doctor and for MRI? I want to compete and its making it impossible to do so

Had a bad shoulder for a year. after begging the doctor for months she eventually gave me a steroid injection, never a moments bother since.

Tazzimus · 07-09-2018 1:09pm

darced wrote: »

Had a bad shoulder for a year. after begging the doctor for months she eventually gave me a steroid injection, never a moments bother since.

Do you walk around with one Paul Harris arm and one normal arm now? :P

On a more serious note, yoga for help with flexibility (I have very little)
What's your go to sources for yoga that can help with flexibility/bjj flexibility?
I know of yoga for bjj, but wanted to see if people had other preferences as well. Choice and all that jazz.

TitianGerm · 07-09-2018 3:10pm

Tazzimus wrote: »

Do you walk around with one Paul Harris arm and one normal arm now? :P

On a more serious note, yoga for help with flexibility (I have very little)
What's your go to sources for yoga that can help with flexibility/bjj flexibility?
I know of yoga for bjj, but wanted to see if people had other preferences as well. Choice and all that jazz.

Go to a local Yoga class if you can. The instructor will be able to help as your only starting out.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 08-09-2018 8:38am

I can't get this is embed, but its funny sh*t and worth checking lol LINK

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu - General Thread

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