Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
22-09-2013, 11:03   #61
RJM85
Registered User
 
RJM85's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 826
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanynova View Post
.if generally speaking, 'anyone can do it' (young, old, fat, thin, strong, weak, male, female, ablebodied, disabled) what clasifies finishing an event as an achievement? It's poor perception from people to think that all finsihers, are winners!
Anyone *could* do it. But it takes a certain amount of determination / 'get up and go' to actually do it. Therein lies the achievement, and in an era of ever increasing obesity related diseases etc is that not something to be celebrated?
RJM85 is offline  
Advertisement
22-09-2013, 11:20   #62
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJM85 View Post
Anyone *could* do it. But it takes a certain amount of determination / 'get up and go' to actually do it. Therein lies the achievement, and in an era of ever increasing obesity related diseases etc is that not something to be celebrated?
Does 6 months training for an event undo years of an unhealthy lifestyle though?

People seem to reel off the health benefits as a justification of the everyone is a winner mentality but for me short term changes will not undo a lifetime of unhealthy habits. This is why we need to be encouraging improved standards in the mid pack. People will be forced to make active lifestyle choices on a consistent basis to achieve these goals.

I know plenty of runners who rack up multiple marathons week in and week out with the time being irrelevant to them yet their nutrition, alcohol consumption and lifestyle would shock people who have the misconception that they must be fit as a fiddle doing all them marathons. I would prefer to see someone sit down and think right if I am going to hit my target I am going to have to do X and cut down on Y and try to eat/drink more of Z. These are the decisions that will combat the health issues in modern society. Exercise is a great tool for promoting healthy living but it is not the sole determinant

This might be seen as elitist but its not. I would be more impressed with someone improving a 4 hour marathon by 1 second each time than I would seeing someone run a 2.50 when I know they have 2.45 potential but didn't realize it because of drink/takeaways or what ever other factor you want to substitute in
ecoli is offline  
22-09-2013, 11:59   #63
ThePiedPiper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,515
Ecoli, I agree on a lot of the points you make there. I'd make a guess though that the type of multi-marathoner you're referring to would be in an infinitely worse state of wellbeing if they didn't have the marathon running as another of the things in their lives they do to the extreme.

You spoke a bit earlier about motivation theory and intrinsic versus extrinsic rewards. I studied this for a bit during a college module, and it's sort of been proven that ultimately, extrinsic rewards only have limited value, and that in order to truly reach one's potential, intrinsic motivation is way more important. Look at the likes of Bolt. The extrinsic rewards are huge over the past couple of years, money, Olympic medals, WC golds, legend status, but you can see it in him, he's lacking motivation, these rewards are no longer enough for him to push himself out of his relative comfort zone. So, does he not deserve his Olympic and WC gold medal?

Back in the land of the mere mortal, yes the medal/sweaty bib/certificate and even prize money for winning have a certain amount of relevance, but if a runner is relying on those extrinsic rewards, they'll only go so far. As you say ecoli, you can be more impressed with the person who puts absolutely everything into improving from a 4:00 to 3:55 than the guy who turns up at practically every race in the country, runs within his comfort zone to win and takes the plaudits. Do you really think the multiple winners of the races right around the country are really motivated by a medal? A medal is only a symbol, money is a means to living the life you want to live. Motivation to be the best you can possibly be at something is something else entirely. But, how many people are there that will take that to the utmost level? Rob Heffernan, Catriona McKiernan, Krusty/Enduro/(please insert your own if you're taking offence) in our own ranks here maybe? Can we even argue that a lot of our elite runners are now of the opinion that representing Ireland is good enough?

At the end of the day, for 99% of us, running is a hobby, maybe a very serious hobby, but a hobby nonetheless. We've other commitments; family, school, college, children, jobs, whatever. If 14,000 people take to the streets of Dublin in October, most of them will have made some sacrifices in their lives to be there. Some will be doing the very very best they can do, and that may be a 3:55 marathon. Some will run entirely within their comfort zones and run 2:30. Others will be there to enjoy the social aspect of it, but in doing so, will have a positive impact on their own health and wellbeing. We can't objectively dissect who did or didn't deserve to get a physical memento of that race, and whose relative performance was better. A medal is a symbol, nothing more.
ThePiedPiper is offline  
22-09-2013, 12:04   #64
KillianByrne
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 615
I think theres some pretty unfair replies here towards some runners that will never finish in the top3 or 3000 even. if you don't want a medal, then fine but for the majority of participants the medal is a tangible reminder, long after the finish, of the weeks and months of training, pain and sacrifice that they and for many of them, their families have gone through to get to the finish line.

Give the top 3 a different medal if it is so important, I assume they already get some crystal and a cheque of some sort, they have their photo taken on a podium and they're changed, showered and in some form of sponsors reception before most of us reach half way. I think all of that makes them pretty special.

Every finisher has a right to be proud of the medal that they earned, and just because your mile is faster than someone else's mile doesn't give you the right to belittle the others achievement.
KillianByrne is offline  
22-09-2013, 12:06   #65
Chivito550
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oops69 View Post
I think this thread should be closed , it's revealing some deep rooted insecurities and low self esteem of some posters
Close the thread? What a crazy suggestion. This is sounding like another accusation of "elitism". Are you that sensitive to people's opinions that medals are for podium placers only, and that athletics/running is a sport, not merely an exercise tool? What is wrong with people posting opinions that participation should not be celebrated? No other sport does such a thing.

To be honest, if the above is elitism, then I'm proud to call myself an elitist, and I'm sure most here would be the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJM85 View Post
Anyone *could* do it. But it takes a certain amount of determination / 'get up and go' to actually do it. Therein lies the achievement, and in an era of ever increasing obesity related diseases etc is that not something to be celebrated?
Absolutely not. Just because people nowadays can't control their intake of saturated fat/ sugar/ sodium and are too lazy to walk 400m to the shops, does not mean that the bar of achievement should be lowered. A good time in the 80s is the same as a good time now.
Chivito550 is offline  
(2) thanks from:
Advertisement
22-09-2013, 12:27   #66
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,671
For the record my previous references have nothing to do with the top 3 get medals only idea that some posters have brought up. My reference is about self development and increasing mid pack standards and having races actually focus on these runners to actually acknowledge the events as a sports event.

I have no problem with people getting medals for finishing but I think there does need to be some sort of structure which rewards people who after setting a bench mark in their first race then continue down the path of self improvement.

@Killian I agree with your last point somewhat in the way that people should be awarded for the work they put in. Shouldn't there be some sort of distinction between the likes of those who put in the hard work and aim to improve themselves compared to someone who got away with finishing despite not training for the event or making any effort to improve their lifestyle in order to be able to fulfil their potential (not ultimate but just potential at that given time)

@RunForestRun - I agree with you that external motivation is only part of it and that ultimately its down to the individual but I do think that as a sport some sort of hierarchy can help motivate people to make even the smallest changes to lifestyle for the better.
Arbitrary barriers are a huge driving factor for many people here (Sub 2.45, sub 3, sub 3.30 etc) so it stands to reason that having visible arbitrary barriers is a way of highlighting this to the general race participant. Kids see something they don't have and want it and adults aren't much better. For the sake of the colour of a tshirt (just an example green for sub 3 and blue for sub 3.30) could be the driving factor for someone to give up drink for an extra week or two in the build up to the race or even the choice to forgo kebab on a saturday night so ultimately little things like this could make a difference to lifestyles without alienating anyone.

I agree with Chivito550 we shouldn't lower the bar simply because the general public are leading on a whole more unhealthy lifestyles. Standards are standards for that reason,to expect people to respect themselves enough to look after themselves
ecoli is offline  
22-09-2013, 12:43   #67
KillianByrne
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 615
Perhaps its wrong to call what is currently awarded 'a medal', it is more a memento for finishing the event. As everyone gets one, it isn't really that special but if it is important, it is gauged with the emotional attachment that each individual puts on it.

The elites get their special reward with their cut crystal, an opportunity to win a car or their prize money. I'm not going to win any of those, but my medal / memento is just as special to me.
KillianByrne is offline  
Thanks from:
22-09-2013, 16:21   #68
hypersonic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 320
I would be in favour of more categories eg top 3 at each year of birth/ weight limit/county/gender etc.
eg 3rd 1978 75kg Dublin male.
this way a lot of people could get recognition while maintaining a competitive spirit.
hypersonic is offline  
22-09-2013, 16:22   #69
sconhome
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,414
Send a message via Skype™ to sconhome
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecoli View Post
@Killian I agree with your last point somewhat in the way that people should be awarded for the work they put in. Shouldn't there be some sort of distinction between the likes of those who put in the hard work and aim to improve themselves compared to someone who got away with finishing despite not training for the event or making any effort to improve their lifestyle in order to be able to fulfil their potential (not ultimate but just potential at that given time)
I think that is a great point, and possibly the crux of the matter. To me the distinction lies in the head of the individual involved.

There was a recent discussion on a similar vein about the AG racing at the World Championships in London and the toys just went out of the pram from all sides.

Regardless of how or why, whether you started 10 years ago, a lifetime or 2 weeks ago (ingnoring the intrinsic risks for a moment) the fact that you are doing some form of exercise has to be applauded.

IMO the mentality of being a 'runner' as opposed to 'running' develops with time.

For many 'running' means you can get a bit of exercise, lose a bit of weight, feel good about yourself (mentally and physically) and eat the treats that you like.

A 'runner' will have a plan, a race goal, a year planned out ahead, of course they'll feel good about themselve but are potentially more likely to be harsh on themselves because of a missed goal, that 5 secs that meant you didn't get the target time, comfortable with a diet etc etc.

Let it develop. Who cares if there is a group who are motivated by things different to you? You're all individual. Whether you are motivated by a medal, a T-shirt or a PB should make no difference.

The fact that people are participating should be celebrated.
sconhome is offline  
Advertisement
22-09-2013, 17:39   #70
RunBikeThrow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1
You Don't "Get Away With" Finishing a Marathon

Shouldn't there be some sort of distinction between the likes of those who put in the hard work and aim to improve themselves compared to someone who got away with finishing despite not training for the event or making any effort to improve their lifestyle in order to be able to fulfil their potential (not ultimate but just potential at that given time)

I'm not sure what is meant by "getting away with finishing". If you ran the entire course and crossed the finish line, you finished. Finishing a marathon is an achievement that deserves recognition. You can't do it with at least some level of discipline and training, and 99% of Americans will never run one. How about we celebrate the 1% who do.

Last I checked, everyone who meets high school graduation requirements receives a diploma. The valedictorian gets to make a speech and likely a scholarship somewhere. If you finished last in your class, your diploma still counts. Should we try to disqualify students who "got away with" graduating even though they didn't study as hard as they could have?

The slowing of marathon finish times is not an example of standards being lowered. Its due to more people running them. In the end, that's good for us all.

Last edited by RunBikeThrow; 22-09-2013 at 17:40. Reason: Clarification on last paragraph
RunBikeThrow is offline  
22-09-2013, 17:48   #71
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 13,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunBikeThrow View Post
[Finishing a marathon is an achievement that deserves recognition. You can't do it with at least some level of discipline and training
Not really:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2055736781
menoscemo is offline  
(2) thanks from:
22-09-2013, 17:52   #72
RJM85
Registered User
 
RJM85's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chivito550 View Post
What is wrong with people posting opinions that participation should not be celebrated? No other sport does such a thing.
Is this serious or tongue in cheek? Almost every other sport celebrates participation at a certain level. There are a huge amount of cycling sportives and finishers medals / t-shirts for triathlon for example...
RJM85 is offline  
22-09-2013, 18:03   #73
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by menoscemo View Post
I was looking for that as I wrote my last post
ecoli is offline  
22-09-2013, 20:16   #74
Timmaay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 9,658
Send a message via MSN to Timmaay
1st time reading that, utterly priceless!
Timmaay is online now  
(2) thanks from:
22-09-2013, 21:12   #75
robinph
Moderator
 
robinph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 19,974
Send a message via ICQ to robinph Send a message via AIM to robinph Send a message via MSN to robinph Send a message via Yahoo to robinph Send a message via Skype™ to robinph
Keep your hands off my token lump of shaped metal on a ribbon that I get given for finishing a marathon. I have a good collection of similar lumps of metal and they are handy easy to store, or display if I feel like doing so, and provide good memories of different events that I've done.

Stop calling them medals if it makes people feel better, but I much prefer that lump of metal than whatever other junk they stick in the goody bags at the finish. Got plenty of tshirts and they are a great "free" source of tops for running in, but they are not my memorabilia items.
robinph is offline  
(3) thanks from:
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet