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Many new runners come from a mindset where everyone gets a medal and it's good enough

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    #32
    ThePiedPiper
    Registered Users Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭ThePiedPiper


    Yeah, at the elite level, that is completely true. The best sprinters in the world (maybe not Bolt) work as hard as the middle distance, field athletes and the long distance runners. And, that is precisely why it feels ridiculous to me to get a finishers medal for a 10k, 5k, and to a certain extent a half marathon.

    But, I still believe that the modern-day marathon event/race has a distinct appeal and identity separating itself from your 60m, 400m, track events that include only people actually involved in athletics. Without the mass entry model that NYC, London, etc developed for the marathon 40 years ago with medals for all finishers, etc., the marathon would exist only as an obscure event that only comes into the consciousness of the public every 4 years at the Olympics. You can't possibly argue that the running boom that started in the 70s with the first of the big city marathons coming along has been bad for either the sport or for people's participation in competitive or non-competitive running. The backslapping, social and everyone's a winner attitude is a part of that.

    And even if you think that a 50-60 year old jogging around at 5 hour pace isn't worthy of getting a medal, slap on the back, there's a huge chance that that particular person could be doing that in memory of a lost family member, collecting money for a charity to benefit a cause, whatever. Yes, its not athletics and sport in the strictest definition of the word, but recognition is given and is 100% warranted. The marathon has evolved, we have to go with it.


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    #33
    drquirky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭drquirky


    walshb wrote: »
    Marathon races should have a 3 hrs 30 mins cap. After that, everyone should just go home.


    Thats a ****ing ridiculous comment.


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    #34
    ThePiedPiper
    Registered Users Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭ThePiedPiper


    drquirky wrote: »
    Thats a ****ing ridiculous comment.

    Don't fall for his bu!!sh!t drquirky. I'd hazard about 50% of his posts are aimed at rubbing people up the wrong way..


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    #35
    Chivito550
    Registered Users Posts: 7,694 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    RunForestRun wrote: »
    Yeah, at the elite level, that is completely true. The best sprinters in the world (maybe not Bolt) work as hard as the middle distance, field athletes and the long distance runners. And, that is precisely why it feels ridiculous to me to get a finishers medal for a 10k, 5k, and to a certain extent a half marathon.

    But, I still believe that the modern-day marathon event/race has a distinct appeal and identity separating itself from your 60m, 400m, track events that include only people actually involved in athletics. Without the mass entry model that NYC, London, etc developed for the marathon 40 years ago with medals for all finishers, etc., the marathon would exist only as an obscure event that only comes into the consciousness of the public every 4 years at the Olympics. You can't possibly argue that the running boom that started in the 70s with the first of the big city marathons coming along has been bad for either the sport or for people's participation in competitive or non-competitive running. The backslapping, social and everyone's a winner attitude is a part of that.

    And even if you think that a 50-60 year old jogging around at 5 hour pace isn't worthy of getting a medal, slap on the back, there's a huge chance that that particular person could be doing that in memory of a lost family member, collecting money for a charity to benefit a cause, whatever. Yes, its not athletics and sport in the strictest definition of the word, but recognition is given and is 100% warranted. The marathon has evolved, we have to go with it.

    Of course the masses should run. Anything that gets people moving and away from the biscuit box is a good thing. I just don't personally believe medals are appropriate and necessary. If somebody only runs a marathon for a medal then one has to ask questions!


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    #36
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Mod: Walshb banned for trolling


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    #37
    PaulieC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,185 ✭✭✭PaulieC


    Hooray for mods! (of all varieties)


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    #38
    ThePiedPiper
    Registered Users Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭ThePiedPiper


    Chivitto, 100% agreed. And, of the couple of hundred people I know who've done a marathon, there's been one or two who have had that as their motivation, but they're in the extreme minority.
    To me, there's a difference between running a marathon just to get a medal, and wanting to get a medal at the end of running a marathon. Personally, I care much more about the medals I have for London, NYC or Boston than the trophies I got for finishing 1st and 3rd in lowkey races of shorter distances. There's no comparison there. The medal's not the motivation. Winning the lowkey races wasn't the motivation either. In all of them, I was just trying to do my best, and to me completing Boston in my 2nd slowest ever marathon trumps winning a lowkey nothing 10k race by nearly 3 minutes any day of the week.


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    #39
    TRR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR


    RunForestRun wrote: »
    TRR, but how many people do you know that may have gotten into running thinking that they might just tick it off a list, but end up falling in love with the sport, and improving and competing properly over time? My first race of any sort was a marathon, and I didn't foresee that I'd immerse myself in the sport for years afterwards. For every 10 people who swear they'll just do the one marathon, thinking its just something to tick of a list or whatever, I'd say at least 2 or 3 end up getting properly involved in running.

    to be honest I don't know and I don't care. Can everybody reread the article and pay particular attention to falling standards section. They are rubbish now compared to 20+ years ago.


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    #40
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    I don't think they're related though. I find it hard to imagine that elite distance runners are going slower because they're pissed off at everyone else getting medals :pac:
    Jerry Kiernan made the point a few months ago that distance standards were falling, but sprint and field standards were much higher. I don't know how true that is, but blaming track fairies would make a change from blaming medal collectors :)


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    #41
    hypersonic
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭hypersonic


    drquirky wrote: »
    Thats a ****ing ridiculous comment.

    why? every sport has a time limit, why not marathoning, it could be age/sex graded. if anything it would add to the appeal.
    I would take it further and have the first 10% in any category given a time, all the rest would be DNFs. if you can't hack the heat get out of the kitchen!


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    #42
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    hypersonic wrote: »
    why? every sport has a time limit, why not marathoning, it could be age/sex graded. if anything it would add to the appeal.
    I would take it further and have the first 10% in any category given a time, all the rest would be DNFs. if you can't hack the heat get out of the kitchen!

    Wonder how many here have an interest in Fukuoka Marathon (pulled off if you are running slower than 2.46)?


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    #43
    hypersonic
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭hypersonic


    ecoli wrote: »
    Wonder how many here have an interest in Fukuoka Marathon (pulled off if you are running slower than 2.46)?

    what is the issue, people don't stop playing sport because the ref blows the whistle, they suck it up and try harder next time. if you what a pass time take up knitting.


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    #44
    Oops69
    Registered Users Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Oops69


    I think this thread should be closed , it's revealing some deep rooted insecurities and low self esteem of some posters


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    #45
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    hypersonic wrote: »
    what is the issue, people don't stop playing sport because the ref blows the whistle, they suck it up and try harder next time. if you what a pass time take up knitting.

    My point was that your idea has been implemented but doesn't seem to capture too many peoples imaginations.

    While I don't think that races should be exclusive I do think there should be some sort of incentive to bridge the gap between participants and elites. I remember growing up Rathfarnham only used to issue t shirts to top 100 finishers. It gave the t shirt a little more meaning. Regarding the medals thing,I think rather than an all or nothing why not a grading in the forms of different medals/coloured t shirts for different time/age grading achievements.

    Agree with tRR that standards are slipping but not in front or back its the midpackers which is where there has seen this decline to the most part. It is getting better but I do think it needs to be incentivised to have an external as well as internal driving factor


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    #46
    hypersonic
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭hypersonic


    ecoli wrote: »
    My point was that your idea has been implemented but doesn't seem to capture too many peoples imaginations.

    While I don't think that races should be exclusive I do think there should be some sort of incentive to bridge the gap between participants and elites. I remember growing up Rathfarnham only used to issue t shirts to top 100 finishers. It gave the t shirt a little more meaning. Regarding the medals thing,I think rather than an all or nothing why not a grading in the forms of different medals/coloured t shirts for different time/age grading achievements.

    Agree with tRR that standards are slipping but not in front or back its the midpackers which is where there has seen this decline to the most part. It is getting better but I do think it needs to be incentivised to have an external as well as internal driving factor

    thanks, I did not know about the fukuoka marathon, that sounds bloody tough, actually it's frightening tough. that's a tshirt worth having. :)


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    #47
    ThePiedPiper
    Registered Users Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭ThePiedPiper


    Worthless T-shirt and medal from the Fukuoka marathon unless you finish in the top 3 of course!


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    #48
    hypersonic
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭hypersonic


    RunForestRun wrote: »
    Worthless T-shirt and medal from the Fukuoka marathon unless you finish in the top 3 of course!

    worthless medal, yes, but I'd take the tshirt.


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    #49
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Maybe there should just be t shirts/medals for PB's?


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    #50
    TRR
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,642 ✭✭✭TRR


    On the increased standards in Irish sprinting. They were ****e historically so not hard to improve on. They are easily outperforming middle and long distance now though.


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    #51
    Mint Sauce
    Registered Users Posts: 29,294 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    ecoli wrote: »
    Maybe there should just be t shirts/medals for PB's?

    So nothing for completing your first (and sometimes only) marathon then?


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    #52
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    Mint Sauce wrote: »
    So nothing for completing your first (and sometimes only) marathon then?

    Slightly facetious comment on my part but if it encourages people to maintain an active lifestyle could be a good incentive (either that or you could argue first timers are setting their PB due to not having an established time)


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    #53
    PVincent
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭PVincent


    I don't care for medals at races other than marathons. I like to get a finishers medal for the memory and a decent tangible memento of the day. My marathon medals are not hidden away but neither way out on display. In 1982 in Dublin they were giving great little plaques with Christchurch Cathedral on them. I only found it recently when cleaning out my garden shed and I was delighted that I still had it despite the fact it was my worst ever ( but first ) marathon. I do think it is a very personal viewpoint on the medals, but they are probably only necessary for marathons and further distances. I do think that ' badges of honour' or 'tee shirts' for getting in the top 100 or getting under a certain time , if used in the right manner can be a very clever way of 'promoting' a race. I'm a little surprised not many have followed the likes of Ballycotton. It could help to attract a higher standard of runner or encourage those taking part to push and strive for that little prize. And it could be used down the field as well.


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    #54
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    ecoli wrote: »
    Mod: Walshb banned for trolling

    I thought you were in work ;)


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    #55
    ecoli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,762 ✭✭✭✭ecoli


    menoscemo wrote: »
    I thought you were in work ;)

    Multi tasking (Gotta love a 6 screen computer) :D


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    #56
    menoscemo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    tunguska wrote: »
    I'd agree with that, it does kind of remove the meaning from medalling if everybody in the entire race gets one. At the Athlone half last week I refused to take a medal at the finish. One guy actually chased after me trying to give me the medal and was kind of shocked when I told him I didn't want one. I wasn't trying to be rude or disrespectful to him or the race organisers(it was in fact a great race and really well organised) I just felt uncomfortable taking the medal.
    .

    You are such a grumpy fooker!! Why not just take the medal and give it to a kid spectating. that's what i generally do and it makes the kid's day.
    *awaits digger's paedo jokes*


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    #57
    nerraw1111
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭nerraw1111


    PVincent wrote: »
    In 1982 in Dublin they were giving great little plaques with Christchurch Cathedral on them.

    Fairly sure they gave them out for a couple of years. My dad has a few, they were really cool.

    I'm kind of each to their own on this/on the fence. Interesting article though.

    I like the idea of distinguishing between finishing times. Be it a red t shirt/silver medal for sub x and yellow/bronze medal for sub y. Races that do that, people tend to set themselves targets, such as comrades.


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    #58
    seanynova
    Registered Users Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭seanynova


    I suppose marathons(or typically any other long distance road running event) for the masses aren't really 'races' anyway...they are just runs, ran faster than other runs. In the case of slower(or less trained) finishers, probably not even any faster than their respective training runs or walk/runs.

    You might think its a big deal, and that you have completed your life long dream of a what you thought was an 'impossible task' but plenty of, 'old' people complete events, plenty of 'overweight' people complete events....if generally speaking, 'anyone can do it' (young, old, fat, thin, strong, weak, male, female, ablebodied, disabled) what clasifies finishing an event as an achievement? It's poor perception from people to think that all finsihers, are winners!

    The trouble is, what actually classifies 'an achievement' vs 'just another finisher'....I like the idea of medals only for the top 3 finishers (incl. age grade), and top 100 finishers t-shirts (which could even be top % based), and to be honest, I'd say everyone else gets nothing, except for a goody bag with sponsers info and a bar of chocolate etc.


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    #59
    woody1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,902 ✭✭✭woody1


    ok im coming to this late and i havent read everyone elses posts but heres my 2 cents anyways
    in general i couldnt care less if there are or arent medals ( or t-shirts or any other crap for that matter ) but certainly for the likes of a / the marathon.. i think its nice to have a memento of it, and a medal is as easy a thing as any for them to give.. but obviously in any race the medals for actually winning or placing should be different to all the rest given out..
    as for running for the sake of it, which is what the thread seems to imply.. people run for a lot of reasons, not all to be competetive with others or themselves..there are social, psycological, health as well as other reasons, i like to be faster than the last race sure but if that stops im not going to give up..

    apologies if ive gone off on a tangent ..its early !


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    #60
    vinny1313
    Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭vinny1313


    Medals only for the first three? Sounds like a bit like a track meet to me. I took part in a fair few of those in my younger days, once you qualify for a final you just had to beat 5 guys to get a medal. Of course there were more than 8 runners in races over 400m, but there wasn't hundreds or thousands.

    Road races today have become something else. The top people are still there competing for the top spots, but the vast bulk of participants are doing it to achieve their own goal or just to take part. I'd say it's very different from track or cross country in that way. I don't see the problem with medals for all, the top three usually get an additional prize anyway, so their achievement is recognised.

    As for a 3 hour marathon not being as big an achievement as a 4 hour one. Well of course not, and a 3 hour one isn't as big an achievement as 2:10, for most people there's always someone better. So it's back to what it means to each individual.

    Oh, and I can't imagine there's too many that can finish in 4 hours on a training regime of sitting on the couch watching TV!


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    #61
    RJM85
    Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭RJM85


    seanynova wrote: »
    .if generally speaking, 'anyone can do it' (young, old, fat, thin, strong, weak, male, female, ablebodied, disabled) what clasifies finishing an event as an achievement? It's poor perception from people to think that all finsihers, are winners!

    Anyone *could* do it. But it takes a certain amount of determination / 'get up and go' to actually do it. Therein lies the achievement, and in an era of ever increasing obesity related diseases etc is that not something to be celebrated?


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