Universities/colleges

BrianD3 · 25-05-2020 10:11pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

Talking to a Lecturer friend and listening to another from UCC on the radio will it be the case many Lectures and Tutorial will be done remotely into the future and students may only be required on campus 1-2 days a week or less for exams and practical stuff like lab work .

This will make college far more affordable for those not living near colleges, could students from Monaghan,Wexford,Tipperary etc come to UCD one or two days a week and do the rest remotely as it appears covid has already shown this can be done. This will free up many houses and apartments in areas like Clonskeagh, etc for the housing market . Replicate this across other Dublin colleges, Cork, Galway etc can only be good news for students and housing markets near colleges.

Sounds like a big nail in the coffin of the student experience. The mid 1990s are increasingly looking like the golden era for students in Ireland. Registration fee of around 250 punts per year, relatively affordable rent, campus life, the luxury of learning plus plenty of socialising and hanging out. I remember those days with great fondness and feel bad for today's students if they won't get to experience that in their late teens/early twenties. Obviously, things haven't been great for many students for a few years thank to high rents which has resulted in many living at home and commuting long distances every day - so perhaps remote attendance won't make things much worse than they already are.

newuser99999 · 25-05-2020 10:12pm

Geuze wrote: »

The 3,000 student undergrad fee won't be reduced.

I don’t mean those ones I meant the capitation fee

gauchesnell · 25-05-2020 10:13pm

yeah for 2020/2021 it doesnt look like an on campus experience will be possible for all students.

This is happening. Again it varies by college and by programme but classes will mostly be online. They are calling it blended learning.

3000 is the contribution fee and that is set by the government

I dont know if incoming students would be aware of this yet though

tsiklon · 25-05-2020 11:03pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

Talking to a Lecturer friend and listening to another from UCC on the radio will it be the case many Lectures and Tutorial will be done remotely into the future and students may only be required on campus 1-2 days a week or less for exams and practical stuff like lab work .

Could you say which radio programme was this on?

Geuze · 25-05-2020 11:05pm

newuser99999 wrote: »

I don’t mean those ones I meant the capitation fee

3,000 is the Student Contribution fee.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/third_level_education/fees_and_supports_for_third_level_education/fees.html

newuser99999 · 25-05-2020 11:07pm

Geuze wrote: »

3,000 is the Student Contribution fee.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/third_level_education/fees_and_supports_for_third_level_education/fees.html

Ucc students pay a fee of €170 for the mardyke gym and other student services.

gauchesnell · 25-05-2020 11:16pm

newuser99999 wrote: »

Ucc students pay a fee of €170 for the mardyke gym and other student services.

Yeah some universities have additional fees on top of the student contribution. That additional fee is something to challenge with the university if the gym doesnt reopen. Dont know what other student services would be

newuser99999 · 25-05-2020 11:18pm

gauchesnell wrote: »

Yeah some universities have additional fees on top of the student contribution. That additional fee is something to challenge with the university if the gym doesnt reopen. Dont know what other student services would be

Clubs, societies, counseling services etc

gauchesnell · 25-05-2020 11:23pm

newuser99999 wrote: »

Clubs, societies, counseling services etc

well thats a scam. My university (I work in one) includes everything for the 3K fee.

Counselling especially is a free service and very important now.

what does the 3K cover is not student services

Flimsy_Boat · 25-05-2020 11:27pm

I am in online med school at the moment. It is a difficult time for all involved. Plans are being made to start online in Autumn but not confirmed yet.

Flimsy_Boat · 25-05-2020 11:29pm

gauchesnell wrote: »

well thats a scam. My university (I work in one) includes everything for the 3K fee.

Counselling especially is a free service and very important now.

what does the 3K cover is not student services

Landscaping, perhaps

boege · 25-05-2020 11:36pm

Universities, like everyone else are trying to react to the crises, which is a bit of a moving feast. Some scenarios currently in discussion:

Educational model will be online for the foreseeable future. Most colleges planning out for two years with this approach, to enable them to deal with at least one if not two resurgences of the virus and further lock-downs.

Only 20% of the total student body will be on campus at any time. One model is to bring each cohort (e.g. first years) in for one continuous week per month for labs, tutorials, etc. and then clean down between cohorts.

In as far as possible, students will be fixed to a location and lectures will move between classes. Social distancing in classes will mean much smaller classes, labs, etc.

Student residence converted to hostel style accommodation (you stay for 5-6 days per month) with clean down between residents.

On the finances. Social distancing is driving up costs. Loss of income from student residence and international students resulting in significant revenue loss, all resulting in massive financial crises brewing in the sector. Sector have asked Government for €300m bailout - not going to happen so watch out for mergers down the road as colleges try to survive.

Geuze · 25-05-2020 11:47pm

gauchesnell wrote: »

well thats a scam. My university (I work in one) includes everything for the 3K fee.

Counselling especially is a free service and very important now.

what does the 3K cover is not student services

NUIG have a local charge, agreed with SU? I think there was a vote years ago.

224 euro.

The levy is allocated to the following activities: sports clubs, societies, Students Union, student health unit, Flirt FM, Áras na Mac Léinn and the Student Project Fund.

gauchesnell · 26-05-2020 12:04am

I think we are looking at 10% of the student body on campus at any one time - broken into cohorts. Our classes are already small but take place in small classrooms (ironic I know).

I do feel sympathy for new students - especially first years - who wont get the normal student experience. Online classes and assessesments to remain - for the most part anyway. We did have some in person assessments recently but 95% were online.

YFlyer · 26-05-2020 12:11am

newuser99999 wrote: »

Where do you suggest students to stay when they are up for 2 days at a time?

Sharing a room with another student that may not be on campus the same days.

YFlyer · 26-05-2020 12:25am

newuser99999 wrote: »

Social distancing goes out the window there

Take your bed clothes away plus give a clean down when leaving.

Could be worked out.

gauchesnell · 26-05-2020 12:37am

lots of accommodation is now available - Im in Dublin sorry.

Student accomodation may change to accommodate the changes in third level.

We dont expect the same number of international students this coming year - lots cant or wont travel.

Commuting may be an option for a lot of people.

Some students may still rent full time but be able to work more hours (if they wish/if jobs available).

SouthernBelle · 26-05-2020 2:52pm

newuser99999 wrote: »

Ucc students pay a fee of €170 for the mardyke gym and other student services.

That fee is set by the Student Union AFAIK.

gutenberg · 26-05-2020 4:45pm

The most recent plans at my UK uni are that large lectures will be online-only (typically things like first year survey courses). Seminar groups will hopefully proceed in-person (I'm in the humanities). Certain cohorts are being prioritised for in-person teaching: first years, third-year modules that contribute to the dissertation, and Master's students. There will be online provision for those who can't come to campus in some form.

I feel for our second years as for at least the first term, they'll be online-only with no in-person teaching. I can well imagine they will feel truly shafted when the news reaches them...

mc25 · 26-05-2020 5:02pm

The NUIG plan specifically if anyone is interested:
http://www.nuigalway.ie/media/registrationoffice/files/Revised-Semester-Dates-202021.pdf

(Apologies if it's already been posted)

Away With The Fairies · 26-05-2020 5:08pm

What about further education colleges for the future? They have some very good courses without the huge costs of universities. If classes go online, I presume classes will be recorded and you can catch up in your own time. I'd almost take advantage and sign up for a course if I knew this will happen.

LuasSimon · 26-05-2020 8:47pm

Even with the student fee of 3k roughly having much of your course available online will reduce accommodation costs hugely with the need to be in Dublin maybe only 1 night a week which could be facilitated on campus in a hostel type set up or even B and B facility close by .
There will be huge benefit to those looking to buy homes in clonskeagh , ranelagh , stillorgan areas near UCD and similarity other areas near colleges will return to a more residential neighbourhood. . Will impact landlords near university but many of them have made plenty over the years .

newuser99999 · 26-05-2020 8:58pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

Even with the student fee of 3k roughly having much of your course available online will reduce accommodation costs hugely with the need to be in Dublin maybe only 1 night a week which could be facilitated on campus in a hostel type set up or even B and B facility close by .
There will be huge benefit to those looking to buy homes in clonskeagh , ranelagh , stillorgan areas near UCD and similarity other areas near colleges will return to a more residential neighbourhood. . Will impact landlords near university but many of them have made plenty over the years .

No it won’t. The average price of student accommodation is between €100 to €150 per week in Cork. It could cost the same to get a hotel room or a B&b and paying for your train and bus up and down. It also would eliminate tons of student jobs.

LuasSimon · 26-05-2020 9:04pm

newuser99999 wrote: »

No it won’t. The average price of student accommodation is between €100 to €150 per week in Cork. It could cost the same to get a hotel room or a B&b and paying for your train and bus up and down. It also would eliminate tons of student jobs.

A lot different in Dublin and what happens in Dublin is all the government really care about .
The student accommodation units on the campuses could be let out nightly Etc if there’s going to be few full time renters and it would save students plenty . UCD are doing lectures in September online and friend at work from wexford daughter will do online from home and commute for lab work one day a week seems to be her story for the coming autumn anyways . It will help in the housing crisis in the CAPITAL as well freeing up plenty houses near the likes of UCD , Trinity , DCU etc

newuser99999 · 26-05-2020 9:16pm

LuasSimon wrote: »

A lot different in Dublin and what happens in Dublin is all the government really care about .
The student accommodation units on the campuses could be let out nightly Etc if there’s going to be few full time renters and it would save students plenty . UCD are doing lectures in September online and friend at work from wexford daughter will do online from home and commute for lab work one day a week seems to be her story for the coming autumn anyways . It will help in the housing crisis in the CAPITAL as well freeing up plenty houses near the likes of UCD , Trinity , DCU etc

Landlords that have been renting to students are not going to rent them out to your average family they won’t get half the money they’re getting off students Hahahaha. This is only going to be short term.

gauchesnell · 26-05-2020 9:54pm

nobody knows yet how campus accomodation will respond - they may change their business plan to respond to this. Maybe they dont know yet.

The current average price for accomodation in Cork may be between 100-150 per week. That will probably change. There wont be the same demand come September. Unless of course students decide to stay on campus or near campus and still attend online classes.

For any returning student I would strongly recommend finding out what your colleges plan for next year - even provisionally.

Blended Learning is what my university is calling it. Not sure if the LC students know yet.

gauchesnell · 26-05-2020 9:57pm

newuser99999 wrote: »

Landlords that have been renting to students are not going to rent them out to your average family they won’t get half the money they’re getting off students Hahahaha. This is only going to be short term.

Landlords will rent those out - airbnbs are all up for the rent now. Certain campus accomodation is normally converted to hostels in summertime (in galway for sure).

Workers pay more rent than students.

By short term do you mean just next academic year then yeah

newuser99999 · 26-05-2020 10:11pm

gauchesnell wrote: »

Landlords will rent those out - airbnbs are all up for the rent now. Certain campus accomodation is normally converted to hostels in summertime (in galway for sure).

Workers pay more rent than students.

By short term do you mean just next academic year then yeah

Maybe in apartments workers pay more. Not in houses near the colleges. And yeah the next academic year.

gauchesnell · 26-05-2020 10:24pm

newuser99999 wrote: »

Maybe in apartments workers pay more. Not in houses near the colleges. And yeah the next academic year.

Well not currently no but with less students on campus people might. It would be quieter for sure.

I think at the moment my university plans online classes and assessments for semester 1 only - with limited campus access. 10% of the student population being on campus based on current plans.

The houses near colleges normally only take students though. No students they will be freed up for workers or whoever else wants them.

Depends up to students as to what they want to do - would you still rent full time if all your classes are online and you have limited access to your campus. Some people will still have to id say.

Landlords will rent to anyone really.

Mjolnir · 26-05-2020 10:33pm

If my lecturers posted decent voice notes like several already do to be fair to them, myself and my class could easily do remote learning next semester. We're a "social science". Tutorials were done via moodle and zoom easily repeatable. There wouldn't really be any need to have us on campus. To be fair they also organised for us to have access to paid online libraries for our exams.

gauchesnell · 26-05-2020 10:41pm

Mjolnir wrote: »

If my lecturers posted decent voice notes like several already do to be fair to them, myself and my class could easily do remote learning next semester. We're a "social science". Tutorials were done via moodle and zoom easily repeatable. There wouldn't really be any need to have us on campus. To be fair they also organised for us to have access to paid online libraries for our exams.

well hopefully you can provide feedback - if not contact your SU. Classes went online very suddenly for everyone.

Wouldnt you miss campus though and the whole experience.

At least returning students have had the college campus experience. LC students wont have that - yet

Mjolnir · 26-05-2020 10:48pm

gauchesnell wrote: »

well hopefully you can provide feedback - if not contact your SU. Classes went online very suddenly for everyone.

Wouldnt you miss campus though and the whole experience.

At least returning students have had the college campus experience. LC students wont have that - yet

Nope I'm a mature student in my late 20's, I travelled first semester stayed in digs in second, I'd love to not have such a financial burden.
Was previously in college too and left, so to me its it's not about "the campus experience" I go in then go do my own stuff when I'm done. Yea they'll miss out but they'll have plenty more time to catch up on it.
If any ug are brought in make it 1st and final years they need it the most.

gauchesnell · 26-05-2020 10:54pm

Mjolnir wrote: »

Nope I'm a mature student in my late 20's, I travelled first semester stayed in digs in second, I'd love to not have such a financial burden.
Was previously in college too and left, so to me its it's not about "the campus experience" I go in then go do my own stuff when I'm done. Yea they'll miss out but they'll have plenty more time to catch up on it.
If any ug are brought in make it 1st and final years they need it the most.

yeah I think thats the plan - some classes may be on campus regardless of years as they may need to be (labs etc).

Lots of students unfortunately wont be able to come back - immunocomprised etc so everyone will need to catered for.

Mjolnir · 27-05-2020 1:04pm

gauchesnell wrote: »

yeah I think thats the plan - some classes may be on campus regardless of years as they may need to be (labs etc).

Lots of students unfortunately wont be able to come back - immunocomprised etc so everyone will need to catered for.

STEM subjects will need to be on campus for labs, first years need to get a feel for how college works and final years need to be given enough attention for obvious reasons. The rest of us if given adequate notes can be left at home.
It'll be an interesting year for staff and students.

gauchesnell · 27-05-2020 3:39pm

yeah interesting for sure..

Article in irish times today saying most students will defer this coming year. I assume they mean 1st years. Students need to be told though that it will be blended learning.

granturismo · 28-05-2020 10:31am

Mjolnir wrote: »

STEM subjects will need to be on campus for labs, ....

If social distancing is required in September, labs will not return to normal. There will be a reduced number of labs, labs will be shorter with probably the lab intro and any related assessments online, labs will probably be repeated or altered another way to cope with the reduced numbers allowed, students may rotate in and out of a lab session. 2m or 1.5m distance significantly reduces the numbers allowed compared to normal times. There will be an increase in the number of video demonstrations replacing bench top laps where possible.

mc25 · 28-05-2020 11:08am

granturismo wrote: »

If social distancing is required in September, labs will not return to normal. There will be a reduced number of labs, labs will be shorter with probably the lab intro and any related assessments online, labs will probably be repeated or altered another way to cope with the reduced numbers allowed, students may rotate in and out of a lab session. 2m or 1.5m distance significantly reduces the numbers allowed compared to normal times. There will be an increase in the number of video demonstrations replacing bench top laps where possible.

Speaking as a former lab demonstrator, I wish that the people in charge would use this as an opportunity to improve the labs, there's a lot of useless/pointless things about them that should have been changed YEARS ago!

When I was demonstrating, students would work in pairs so it would be relatively easy to just switch to one person per bench for social distancing.

However, that drives the cost up significantly (twice as many labs, demonstrators, materials etc.) and I just don't know how that can be solved...

Vital Transformation · 29-05-2020 6:07pm

Why are colleges shutting down so much compared to the schools?

Not only are schools returning earlier, it seems like they'll be taking far more of a "business as usual" approach. At least compared to colleges, where it looks like in person lectures are going to be either outright cancelled or the capacity reduced by 90%.

Lockheed · 29-05-2020 6:34pm

gauchesnell wrote: »

well hopefully you can provide feedback - if not contact your SU. Classes went online very suddenly for everyone.

Wouldnt you miss campus though and the whole experience.

At least returning students have had the college campus experience. LC students wont have that - yet

Romanticising the college experience is quite unfair for students who are forced to commute full time. I've never had this 'experience' and I still find college enjoyable. We're all in the same boat now.

challengemaster · 29-05-2020 6:59pm

Vital Transformation wrote: »

Why are colleges shutting down so much compared to the schools?

Not only are schools returning earlier, it seems like they'll be taking far more of a "business as usual" approach. At least compared to colleges, where it looks like in person lectures are going to be either outright cancelled or the capacity reduced by 90%.

I'd imagine it's a few reasons, some of which might be

1. Kids seem to be least at risk category for severe symptoms, comparatively mature students and many lecturers or support staff I'd imagine would fall into the high risk categories.

2. You're talking about orders of magnitude in terms of people. Class sizes for schools are probably around 25-30. In University you can have 400+ in a lecture hall.

Secondary schools might have 1,000 people on campus, universities might have 20,000 - 30,000 +.

gauchesnell · 29-05-2020 7:30pm

Lockheed wrote: »

Romanticising the college experience is quite unfair for students who are forced to commute full time. I've never had this 'experience' and I still find college enjoyable. We're all in the same boat now.

Yeah I commuted myself through college - by that I mean bus or hitch hiked. Also worked part time and commuted. Only one bus a day and if you missed that you hitch hiked. Also slept on peoples floors and couches.

Still had the college campus experience which is important - not romantic in any way.

This was the 90s obvs with the hitch hiking.

gauchesnell · 29-05-2020 7:42pm

challengemaster wrote: »

I'd imagine it's a few reasons, some of which might be

1. Kids seem to be least at risk category for severe symptoms, comparatively mature students and many lecturers or support staff I'd imagine would fall into the high risk categories.

2. You're talking about orders of magnitude in terms of people. Class sizes for schools are probably around 25-30. In University you can have 400+ in a lecture hall.

Secondary schools might have 1,000 people on campus, universities might have 20,000 - 30,000 +.

Yes to the above - 6/7000 students in one building not including staff for us. School population tends to be local community aswell. Universities not so much - students and staff from everywhere.

Mjolnir · 30-05-2020 12:53am

Put simply the smallest class in my degree is 30 add in students taking the same classes from different degrees at full capacity we're talking over 400.
Say we obey 2m we might be able to stagger the room to let's say 100. Now we need to run that 4 times in an already booked out lecture hall, add in that that class itself is already run twice a week for two different groups of 400 you're talking 16 classes for just one subject. It's not practical or even feasible really.

With regards the campus experience romanticism, my commute was a near 2 hour each way drive at varying hours and levels of traffic. You couldn't get me out of their quick enough and I was constantly exhausted with working nights too. I didn't want to be near campus if i didn't have to be. Change that to digs and I'd rather go training when I'm done than hang around in the su.
Everyone is different, some students want to party, live the "college" life. Others like myself are there to get a degree and start our careers.

You can't really compare the 90's to now, totally different eras in every aspect.

gauchesnell · 30-05-2020 1:39am

Mjolnir wrote: »

Put simply the smallest class in my degree is 30 add in students taking the same classes from different degrees at full capacity we're talking over 400.
Say we obey 2m we might be able to stagger the room to let's say 100. Now we need to run that 4 times in an already booked out lecture hall, add in that that class itself is already run twice a week for two different groups of 400 you're talking 16 classes for just one subject. It's not practical or even feasible really.

With regards the campus experience romanticism, my commute was a near 2 hour each way drive at varying hours and levels of traffic. You couldn't get me out of their quick enough and I was constantly exhausted with working nights too. I didn't want to be near campus if i didn't have to be. Change that to digs and I'd rather go training when I'm done than hang around in the su.
Everyone is different, some students want to party, live the "college" life. Others like myself are there to get a degree and start our careers.

You can't really compare the 90's to now, totally different eras in every aspect.

apologies im staff now in university so what campus experience means to us is different - it means students being able to learn (self directed learning) use campus facilities if needed and progress into further study and/or career. A positive campus experience means retention of students. We want students to learn, engage and progress.

Nothing to do with hanging out in the SU. The SU in my university is a private company - 2 separate things.

The whole 1m or 2m rule will have a massive impact on classes - for where I work classes are being timetabled as we speak. Management are up the walls figuring out what to and how to accommodate everyone. As I posted before though even the option of all online classes will probably need to be available on all programmes as well as some in person classes.

Not all students will be able to return / in the event of an outbreak classes will need to continue i.e back up plan.

College is different to when I attended agree - not sure its better. Everyones experience is different - commuting didnt bother me except when I was stranded with no way home.

Mjolnir · 30-05-2020 1:50am

gauchesnell wrote: »

apologies im staff now in university so what campus experience means to us is different - it means students being able to learn (self directed learning) use campus facilities if needed and progress into further study and/or career. A positive campus experience means retention of students. We want students to learn, engage and progress.

Nothing to do with hanging out in the SU. The SU in my university is a private company - 2 separate things.

The whole 1m or 2m rule will have a massive impact on classes - for where I work classes are being timetabled as we speak. Management are up the walls figuring out what to and how to accommodate everyone. As I posted before though even the option of all online classes will probably need to be available on all programmes as well as some in person classes.

Not all students will be able to return / in the event of an outbreak classes will need to continue i.e back up plan.

College is different to when I attended agree - not sure its better. Everyones experience is different - commuting didnt bother me except when I was stranded with no way home.

The numbers was aimed at a different poster I was feeling to lazy to press reply after scrolling ha.

Ah misunderstanding so, apologies. I wouldn't be mad about the su having a bar on campus but it gives jobs too.

I can imagine management are at the point of pulling out their hair, the obvious answer is plan for the worst case, hope for the best. That way we don't get caught on the hop again. Very far from ideal for all involved. Another issue for staff being in certain disciplines the lecturers have main jobs outside of teaching, thay would be a nightmare in itself.

The problem with retention will be students just leaving school now aren't used to being independent when it comes to their learning. I've seen it with my class mates some act like children ( fair they aren't far from it) when they aren't spoon fed the information and throw tantrums.

Charles Babbage · 30-05-2020 2:02am

Vital Transformation wrote: »

Why are colleges shutting down so much compared to the schools?

Not only are schools returning earlier, it seems like they'll be taking far more of a "business as usual" approach. At least compared to colleges, where it looks like in person lectures are going to be either outright cancelled or the capacity reduced by 90%.

Because they are petri dish for disease, 20,000+ people from all parts of the world mixing in together, most of them from the age group which shows least respect for social distancing. A school only has a fraction of that number from one parish. Add to that the students are adults and more capable of independent study.

gauchesnell · 30-05-2020 2:10am

Mjolnir wrote: »

The numbers was aimed at a different poster I was feeling to lazy to press reply after scrolling ha.

Ah misunderstanding so, apologies. I wouldn't be mad about the su having a bar on campus but it gives jobs too.

I can imagine management are at the point of pulling out their hair, the obvious answer is plan for the worst case, hope for the best. That way we don't get caught on the hop again. Very far from ideal for all involved. Another issue for staff being in certain disciplines the lecturers have main jobs outside of teaching, thay would be a nightmare in itself.

The problem with retention will be students just leaving school now aren't used to being independent when it comes to their learning. I've seen it with my class mates some act like children ( fair they aren't far from it) when they aren't spoon fed the information and throw tantrums.

well students take priority but there are a lot of issues when it comes to staff and teaching - some staff may not be able to return to campus even though ideally their teaching should be done on campus/staff commute from possibly wider distances. I know a few of my colleagues live 4 days Dublin and the remaining in London for example. As you mentioned lots of staff have other jobs as well as teaching etc

So many concerns really.

Incoming students especially LC students we think will be a challenge but I dont know if LC/new students are aware of the situation yet. Its a continuation of studying at home for many - and they wont have done the LC now aswell. As you say no independence.

Thing is we some cases back in March before the lockdown. It shuts campus buildings for a while and could shut all campuses depending on contact tracing.

the worse sceanario is all teaching continues online and campuses reman shut.

gauchesnell · 30-05-2020 2:12am

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Because they are petri dish for disease, 20,000+ people from all parts of the world mixing in together, most of them from the age group which shows least respect for social distancing. A school only has a fraction of that number from one parish. Add to that the students are adults and more capable of independent study.

correct we actually had another highly contagious disease at my university before lockdown - infectious diseases on campus are common - this one was unusual though

challengemaster · 30-05-2020 2:26am

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Because they are petri dish for disease, 20,000+ people from all parts of the world mixing in together, most of them from the age group which shows least respect for social distancing.

Just to add to this in a way probably most people wouldn't expect.

The hygiene standards of some people in Universities / Colleges can be truly appalling. I've worked in a research building where almost everyone was educated to doctoral level or enrolled in a doctoral degree. In that very same building, signs had to be put up in the bathrooms and emails sent around telling people that it is not okay to shít all over the toilet seat and floor and walk away afterwards, leaving it for other people or cleaning staff to deal with.

Trusting people to be responsible about washing their hands really isn't a given.

Charles Babbage · 30-05-2020 2:34am

gauchesnell wrote: »

correct we actually had another highly contagious disease at my university before lockdown - infectious diseases on campus are common - this one was unusual though

Often these diseases are confined to those involved in certain activities, which can be avoided, or are confined to the offspring of anti-vaxers.

Universities/colleges

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