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Closing Schools - What about working parents !!!

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    #92
    S.G.M.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 331 ✭✭S.G.M.


    Noddy Nangle wrote:
    Both my wife and I work and we have two primary school children. After school we make use of the nearby after school for minding our kids until we finish work. So if all of these places shut down what are we to do ? I can’t exactly trll my employer that I can’t work for the next two months as I have no one to mind the kids and secondly even if I did I won’t be entitled to any pay and we couldn’t survive for a couple of months with no money and we won’t be entitled to the 305 sick pay. I personally think the government need to think this through before they act. It’s all well and fine for teachers and the public sector but what about the Joe soaps with a regular job in the private sector. To say I’m worried is an understatement !!!

    The teachers aren't the ones making the decision so why being them into it?
    The majority of teachers in my school are desperate for the schools to stay open as they want their students to do the best they can and trying to teach from home isn't ideal.


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    #93
    Millem
    Registered Users Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    tart29016 wrote: »
    Asked them yesterday but couldn't get a straight answer. we have 2 kids in the creche and I don't think its fair for me to pay over 2K to them a month and I have to stay at home mind the kids. I appreciate they have their overheads but perhaps that's where the government support comes in. I am not sure...:confused:

    I bet they won’t be paying their staff if they close!


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    #94
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Millem wrote: »
    I bet they won’t be paying their staff if they close!

    You can bet whatever you want to but if creche go out of business quite a few people will be wondering what to do after the whole virus is over.

    I'm not saying that full fees should be paid but those who feel entitled to full wages if they are not working should assume others want the same. A lot of businesses will struggle and childcare is one of the most underfunded sectors in Ireland and I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to get some income from somewhere.


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    #95
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    daheff wrote: »
    My solution is to be rational and follow sensible guidelines to minimise the effects of this.

    Closing schools now, while it will limit the spread now...won't eliminate the threat of the virus. Only by 100% quarantine of the country and stopping outsiders coming in from affected places will we stop the spread. We would need to lock EVERYTHING down for 2 weeks+duration of any infections (which looks to be approx 28 days). So 6 weeks assuming no additional infections.

    If we don't stop flights/ferries coming in with people with possible infections then any school shut down will be irrelevant because it'll just start to spread again the moment any closure is lifted. What do we do then...shut everything down again for 6 weeks?


    At the moment we have a negligible amount of the population with the virus. Any school that has a case should absolutely and without question shut for at least 14 days after the infection is spotted. All students and families should self isolate for this period.

    Look at the school in Dublin which was shut around 2nd March because 1 student had tested positive. Have any other students contracted the virus?


    Shutting schools/places of work are not a containment phase strategy. They are a mitigation phase strategy because of the disruption to everything that they cause. You forget that nurses and doctors have children too. Who should look after their kids because schools are shut? Or should those parents stay at home to look after their kids and not do their work? Every doctor and nurse you take out of circulation has a big knock on effect on the health system and capacity of the system.

    If (and i hope its an if) we get more cases, and they aree community spread as opposed to the traceable cases we have now, then we should look at closing schools on a case by case basis...not blanket shutting. No point shutting schools in Ennis if there are no cases in Ennis. Anybody who is sending their kids to the school from outside the town and is from an infected area should not send their kids to school then.



    absolutely. The biggest solution to this is for anybody with symptoms to self isolate and not get on a bloody plane and travel abroad.



    and as a by the way, both myself and my wife can work from home if schools get shut down, so i won't be overly affected by a shut down if it comes to that. I'm more concerned about the damage that an unnecessary shut will do all around.

    Daheff, I appreciate your well thought out answer, but whether the shut down comes next week, or in two or three weeks, there will be parents asking "what are we supposed to do with the kids?"

    The answer is, stay home, do all you can to avoid becoming ill, and worry about the rest of it all when the crisis is past. Nothing is worth possibly losing your life for.


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    #96
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,834 ✭✭✭daheff


    AulWan wrote: »
    Daheff, I appreciate your well thought out answer, but whether the shut down comes next week, or in two or three weeks, there will be parents asking "what are we supposed to do with the kids?"

    The answer is, stay home, do all you can to avoid becoming ill, and worry about the rest of it all when the crisis is past. Nothing is worth possibly losing your life for.

    Absolutely.


    If a shutdown happens (more likely when) it'll be when there are many more cases in the communities. Such a shut down would then not only benefit the kids out of school, but the parents too. Such a shut down would help cut huge number of cases back to the manageable levels we currently have.

    Nobody wants this to get out of control, but i do think there is a little over the top reactions happening now....which may mean people are not as concerned when things actually go bad- when they should be reacting then.

    To me a shut down of schools/workplaces etc is not warranted. Social distancing and sports events should be restricted to keep the situation contained.

    But what do I know..I'm only some nut on the internet (like the rest of you :cool: )


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    #97
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,284 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Millem wrote: »
    I bet they won’t be paying their staff if they close!

    The problem will be if they don’t plenty will leave the country and go home and when the crèches re open they will likely be down staff in an industry that is already short staffed so will have to turn kids away. It’s going to be a mess if it happens and will be difficult to get back to where it is now.


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    #98
    purifol0
    Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭purifol0


    This thread is a sad reflection on the fact that Ireland is not a great country to get sick in if you are a private sector worker. Businesses have no obligation to pay sick pay no matter how well they're doing. Many will outright lie to the public on this matter claiming they cannot possibly pay. Not true for most medium to large outfits but of course we cannot know that since their books are off limits.

    If we want Ireland to be a fairer place to the workers we must have an open book policy on private company finances - like Norway does.

    Last week IBEC rocked up to the Dail and told the govt to use the citizens own taxes to pay for their own sick pay because big biz doesnt want to. Looks like they got their way.


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    #99
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,284 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    purifol0 wrote: »
    This thread is a sad reflection on the fact that Ireland is not a great country to get sick in if you are a private sector worker. Businesses have no obligation to pay sick pay no matter how well they're doing. Many will outright lie to the public on this matter claiming they cannot possibly pay. Not true for most medium to large outfits but of course we cannot know that since their books are off limits.

    If we want Ireland to be a fairer place to the workers we must have an open book policy on private company finances - like Norway does.

    Last week IBEC rocked up to the Dail and told the govt to use the citizens own taxes to pay for their own sick pay because big biz doesnt want to. Looks like they got their way.

    Thread isn’t really to do with sick pay though


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    #100
    S.G.M.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 331 ✭✭S.G.M.


    daheff wrote:
    To me a shut down of schools/workplaces etc is not warranted. Social distancing and sports events should be restricted to keep the situation contained.

    I get where you're coming from but I'm a SNA in a big secondary school and I can see how the hygiene is non existent with so many kids. Can fully see how closures will help prevent spread massively.


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    #101
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    S.G.M. wrote: »
    I get where you're coming from but I'm a SNA in a big secondary school and I can see how the hygiene is non existent with so many kids. Can fully see how closures will help prevent spread massively.

    My girlfriend teaches in an ASD unit and some of her students aren’t properly toilet trained, there’d be no way to stop infecting or being infected by those students.

    Closing the schools is inevitable, it’s really just about when is best to close them.


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    #102
    S.G.M.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 331 ✭✭S.G.M.


    Salary Negotiator wrote:
    My girlfriend teaches in an ASD unit and some of her students aren’t properly toilet trained, there’d be no way to stop infecting or being infected by those students.

    Exactly, it's far from ideal but it's needed imo.


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    #103
    purifol0
    Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭purifol0


    salmocab wrote: »
    Thread isn’t really to do with sick pay though

    If you close the schools parents will have to stay at home to mind them. Those parents won't get paid for that, but the teachers will. Both not working for the same reason, but only the public sector will get paid.


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    #104
    wally1990
    Registered Users Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭wally1990


    What about the nurses and other medical staff who are currently under pressure and under staffed who have children themselves?!?

    schools closing will have a knock on impact to the medical sector staff availability.

    Awful situation we are in


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    #105
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,284 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    purifol0 wrote: »
    If you close the schools parents will have to stay at home to mind them. Those parents won't get paid for that, but the teachers will. Both not working for the same reason, but only the public sector will get paid.

    Yes I’m not disputing that but you were talking about sick pay and this isn’t the same thing at all


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    #106
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    S.G.M. wrote: »
    I get where you're coming from but I'm a SNA in a big secondary school and I can see how the hygiene is non existent with so many kids. Can fully see how closures will help prevent spread massively.

    Also an SNA in a big school, it's scary when your working with loads of kids who will be in danger from this nevermind yourself and your family. No hope of containing it anybit in a school setting in my opinion, a lot of kids don't understand the seriousness of this and hygiene means nothing to a lot of them.


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    #107
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    Everybody checks out sometime.

    Immunocompromised etc. should be moved to a safe place.

    Septuagenarians and Octogenarians should make a will and go to confession.

    Gee, thanks . As a primary teacher , where would you be sending me that is “ safe?”


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    #108
    S.G.M.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 331 ✭✭S.G.M.


    Icyseanfitz wrote:
    Also an SNA in a big school, it's scary when your working with loads of kids who will be in danger from this nevermind yourself and your family. No hope of containing it anybit in a school setting in my opinion, a lot of kids don't understand the seriousness of this and hygiene means nothing to a lot of them.

    Literally watched a child blow his nose with a tissue today, walk to put it in the bin, touch about three chairs before he sat down again and then engage with his peers sharing equipment.


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    #109
    carltonleon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭carltonleon


    WTF are the government waiting for , several countries have already closed their schools, the latest being Denmark. FFS Moldova only has 3 cases and they have closed them. Quite simply, if we are serious about slowing the spread then it is an essential and inevitable Step.... the sooner the ****ing better!!!
    Some of the stories from Italy are dreadful, lots of young people with no underlying problems in ICU and they are running out of ventilators and not intubating anyone over 60


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    #110
    cannotlogin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭cannotlogin


    All of the following are possible options:-

    teachers,
    older secondary school students,
    third level students,
    rota between parents - 3 families together so that each parent can work 4 out of 5 days
    workers from the hospitality/retail sector who will have reduced hours
    People who work freelance or self employed who have reduced bookings/hours

    do you have any friends/family in those area?

    It's far from ideal but it's a worldwide risk at the moment so it calls for finding creative solutions. Those who have to go to work do, those who don't should support others etc


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    #111
    olestoepoke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭olestoepoke


    carltonleon wrote: »
    WTF are the government waiting for , several countries have already closed their schools, the latest being Denmark. FFS Moldova only has 3 cases and they have closed them. Quite simply, if we are serious about slowing the spread then it is an essential and inevitable Step.... the sooner the ****ing better!!!
    Some of the stories from Italy are dreadful, lots of young people with no underlying problems in ICU and they are running out of ventilators and not intubating anyone over 60

    Is this true? Young people with no underlying problems in ICU? This goes against everything we are being told. If it is not true you really shouldn't be spouting it out.


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    #112
    Fleetwoodmac
    Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭Fleetwoodmac


    purifol0 wrote: »
    This thread is a sad reflection on the fact that Ireland is not a great country to get sick in if you are a private sector worker. Businesses have no obligation to pay sick pay no matter how well they're doing. Many will outright lie to the public on this matter claiming they cannot possibly pay. Not true for most medium to large outfits but of course we cannot know that since their books are off limits.

    If we want Ireland to be a fairer place to the workers we must have an open book policy on private company finances - like Norway does.

    Last week IBEC rocked up to the Dail and told the govt to use the citizens own taxes to pay for their own sick pay because big biz doesnt want to. Looks like they got their way.

    Agreed in terms of large profitable business but there are many small and indeed medium business just about holding their own. Starting up a business in this country is only for the brave, there are little to no incentives ( unless your a large multinational) , rates are enormous and the raft of policies and procedures in some business are a full time job in itself. I know of several business owners who pay their staff before they get a wage. Be mindful that this will affect small and medium business owners, not just the workers. Self employed are only beginning to get the benefits that others get, in terms of illness benefit etc. Italy have just initiated closure of all nonessential business. This doesn't bear contemplation if it happens here and it'll be jobs not just wages that's a worry. I'm not a business owner btw, just an observer of some very hard workers.


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    #113
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    I have seen through verified accounts that those over 60 and with underlying health issues are being sidelined for treatment in Italy and in some cases left to die . For those of you who are young and healthy , thus could be your child/niece/granny/uncle who survived cancer . The “ sure I’m grand anyhow “ attitude of some is frightening.


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    #114
    carltonleon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭carltonleon


    olestoepoke wrote: »
    Is this true? Young people with no underlying problems in ICU? This goes against everything we are being told. If it is not true you really shouldn't be spouting it out.

    Who is spouting ??? Read this

    https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-11/italy-doctors-coronavirus-covid-19-quarantine-milan-health/


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    #115
    kerryjack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,556 ✭✭✭kerryjack


    It's time for the tablet for the really sick and send them to there happy place, plenty of old and sick people living in pain I remember my father a stroke victim ant the last few days was brutal and he said him self this must be hell I am inonly waiting for there big day.


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    #116
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,772 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    kerryjack wrote: »
    It's time for the tablet for the really sick and send them to there happy place, plenty of old and sick people living in pain I remember my father a stroke victim ant the last few days was brutal and he said him self this must be hell I am inonly waiting for there big day.

    The Final Solution.
    Nice.


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    #117
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Announcement re schools in the next hour .


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    #118
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    All schools, colleges and creche facilities to close from 6PM today.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0312/1121820-coronavirus/


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    #119
    SweetCaliber
    Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭SweetCaliber


    Will be interesting how businesses facilitate parents now that they will have to take leave to look after their children. Public sector is closed but retail, shops, smaller businesses will stay open.

    Pity businesses couldn't start restricting opening hours, that way less staff would be needed and people could still pop in and grab essentials.


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    #120
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,284 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    SweetCaliber wrote: »
    Will be interesting how businesses facilitate parents now that they will have to take leave to look after their children. Public sector is closed but retail, shops, smaller businesses will stay open.

    Pity businesses couldn't start restricting opening hours, that way less staff would be needed and people could still pop in and grab essentials.

    Businesses can and likely will


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    #121
    Antares35
    Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    No word from our college yet about closure. Unbelievable :(


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