Metalwork and welding

jmreire · 13-01-2020 3:25pm #1

[Split off from the "This weeks Classic Irish bargains that I'm not buying" thread as it really deserves its own thread.

Feel free to add any panel making or welding pics/info to this thread to help/inspire others. Please avoid quoting full posts full of pics as it can be a lot of needless scrolling on mobiles.]

kadman wrote: »

Beetle resto is more or less complete. I am just making new leather seat covers for front and back. Then some superficial stuff.

Also have the fast back nearly ready for final assembly bits, wings bonnets ect re attached. But all the grunt work done. And after all this, I just want to spend a few months driving, as opposed to working on body work..

But body corrosion tends to get bigger.

"Fastback" as in VW Varient Fastback ??? 1600 cc? Those were some car allright.
Yes I agree about the corrosion , as I mentioned in my post.. It's literally like the tip of the iceberg, and I have done enough of them in the past to know. Over the years, I've been asked by people that I know, if I would do a "project" for them,and my answer has always been NO. Its too time consuming, but maybe I will take on one for myself in the near future, something that I can take my time at, and do it section by section. We will see..:):):)

kadman · 13-01-2020 3:30pm

jmreire wrote: »

I see that you have a VW Beetle restoration project in progress. How is that going for you? I spent 5 years working in a VW Dealership, so I still have an interest in them.

Beetle resto is more or less complete. I am just making new leather seat covers for front and back. Then some superficial stuff.

Also have the fast back nearly ready for final assembly bits, wings bonnets ect re attached. But all the grunt work done. And after all this, I just want to spend a few months driving, as opposed to working on body work..

I want to get away from tricky panel work like this on the fasty,

And out onto the open road and let the wind through my hair, ( all 3 of them):D

kadman · 13-01-2020 3:51pm

Any car where you can buy repair panels, makes things simple,
but in the case of my Fastback, very few exist.

So making the likes of these was awkward and time consuming,

jmreire · 13-01-2020 3:56pm

kadman wrote: »

I want to get away from tricky panel work like this on the fasty,

And out onto the open road and let the wind through my hair, ( all 3 of them):D

Nice bit of work...lovely to look at nice clean shiny new metal !!! And Thank God for M.I.G welders too. Do you have any more before and after pics?

kadman · 13-01-2020 4:10pm

Mostly individual areas, as the car is not finally finished yet,

kadman · 13-01-2020 4:37pm

I just realised I may have posted in a thread not suitable as they may be off topic.

Apologies to mods, please deal with my oversite as you see fit.:)

BonnieSituation · 13-01-2020 4:43pm

kadman wrote: »

I just realised I may have posted in a thread not suitable as they may be off topic.

Apologies to mods, please deal with my oversite as you see fit.:)

Never in here! That's pretty on topic given you were highlighting corrosion on another car. Plus you know what petrol heads are like...

jmreire · 13-01-2020 8:34pm

kadman wrote: »

Mostly individual areas, as the car is not finally finished yet,

Fair Play to you Kadman, that's classy workmanship, by any standard's. And very relevant to this thread.....for anyone out there thinking about buying a "Restorer", show's exactly what is involved.. and I'm pretty sure that there was no hint of the amount of corrosion that existed prior to stripping it down? Looking forward to seeing updates as you progress !!! Well Done !!!..

kadman · 13-01-2020 9:24pm

jmreire wrote: »

Fair Play to you Kadman, that's classy workmanship, by any standard's. And very relevant to this thread.....for anyone out there thinking about buying a "Restorer", show's exactly what is involved.. and I'm pretty sure that there was no hint of the amount of corrosion that existed prior to stripping it down? Looking forward to seeing updates as you progress !!! Well Done !!!..

Ha,ha,
It was purchased by my dad, who was told by me "run Forest Run:eek::eek:,

But he laughed and said it will see him out:D

Well he is now 87 and going strong, where this car is getting a resto before him:P

kadman · 13-01-2020 9:38pm

Due to the major lack of most of the panels, either new or
nos or replacement ones, it dragged out the repairs as they had to be made
by hand,
from the little repairs,,

To the tricky

kadman · 13-01-2020 9:51pm

This is what my dad saw,

But I knew this is what was coming,

This post might act as a potential outcome for an impulse buy considered by a classic owner newbie.

Potential cost for this type of resto would cost a newbie thousands that they would not have thought of,

if they buy on the basis of the pics look great.

I flagged this up to "the Boss", but he would not listen to the young pup at the time (me 56 then )

Luckily I could cover all of the resto work myself.

jmreire · 13-01-2020 9:57pm

kadman wrote: »

Due to the major lack of most of the panels, either new or
nos or replacement ones, it dragged out the repairs as they had to be made
by hand,
from the little repairs,,

Forget about the clock on a job like that...when you have to manufacture the panels by hand, using sheet metal...not easy, and no guarantee that you will get it right first go either !!! Once we had to get a fabricator / metalworker to install ducting in one of our workshops....lots of twist's,turn's and shaping. Was fascinating to watch him work...a true artist with metal.

kadman · 13-01-2020 11:18pm

jmreire wrote: »

Forget about the clock on a job like that...when you have to manufacture the panels by hand, using sheet metal...not easy, and no guarantee that you will get it right first go either !!! Once we had to get a fabricator / metalworker to install ducting in one of our workshops....lots of twist's,turn's and shaping. Was fascinating to watch him work...a true artist with metal.

I use the same method for making different compound panel shapes, that I used when I used to make my own shoes,

Perfect template everytime. Every layer of masking tape rotated 90 degrees
to give the template strength.
Perfect solution for copying existing shapes.

BonnieSituation · 14-01-2020 12:01am

Can I please ask you to make a goddam thread for this stuff. It deserves it. Absolutely class.

I'm a sucker for ingenuity.

kadman · 14-01-2020 12:52am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Can I please ask you to make a goddam thread for this stuff. It deserves it. Absolutely class.

I'm a sucker for ingenuity.

If the mods want to move it to its own thread, I'm all for it:)
Maybe others could post resto tips too:)

jmreire · 14-01-2020 1:04am

kadman wrote: »

I use the same method for making different compound panel shapes, that I used when I used to make my own shoes,

Perfect template everytime. Every layer of masking tape rotated 90 degrees
to give the template strength.
Perfect solution for copying existing shapes.

Fantastic job,kadman and fantastic workmanship. Looking forward to seeing it at the different stages, and of course the finished article.

Would be a great idea to give it a thread all for itself !!! MOD's please note !!!;););)

macplaxton · 14-01-2020 4:23am

Mod has noted, but works backshift.

Posting of photos is most welcome, I would be grateful though when quoting posts to avoid quoting the whole lot (with the all pics repeated) as it's just unnecessary and a lot of needless scrolling on mobiles.

To reply to the thread instead of hitting the "Quote" button, use the "Post" button on mobile, or "Post Reply" button / "Quick Reply" box on desktop) .

Thank you.

kadman · 14-01-2020 9:26am

Just wanted to add that I used only very basic tools for all of the panels I made.

Hammer formed all of them with various shape things to cause the appropriate indents,
from sockets to rebars, and anything in between. I have a large number of old shoemakers lasts
which I found great for metal forming.

I applied no heat or anything to bend the panels, it was all hammer formed as I had no engilsh wheel ect.

I made a small tool like a mini engilsh wheel on my lathe for the two very tight rear wing corners.

kadman · 14-01-2020 9:32am

This shows some of the shapes I used to form the corner wing structural support from 1.5mm metal.

The wooden lead podger and shaped wooden dolly, or any matching metal form that suited.

kadman · 14-01-2020 9:35am

More complex shapes were buitlt from 1 or 2 or more individual pieces
if I could not hammer it from 1 single piece, as in this case

kadman · 14-01-2020 9:41am

This was one of the more challenging pieces I made. Its located on the passenger side
lower rear wing corner.
It was hammered from one piece.

You can just see the V cutout of the lower section of the tail light.

The shaped mallet and pounce bag here, doing the shaping.

jmreire · 14-01-2020 11:46am

Thanks Mod, and for the tip about just posting and not quoting. Good one !!!
Very good work kadman,time consuming but very satisfying, I'd say. And you have the car mounted on a jig, so stable platform...no chance of any "twisting / warping". Is it completely stripped down to a shell, or only partially?. what kind of mileage is on it? And was it driving or had to be trailered in?

kadman · 14-01-2020 2:40pm

It was completely stripped down to a shell, and was a body off resto.

It was driving for a year or thereabouts before driving into the garage.

Front beam, rear axle and suspension, engine and gearbox was all removed. Repairs included,
all bodywork, inner wings, front valance, rear inner wings, suspension locations, heater channels,
basically bottom 15" all around the car. Wing repairs as well.

Then all the mechanicals, including engine stripped, inspected, and rebuilt with new parts where needed.
All the mechanicals are refitted to the car, and the car and body re assembled, and is driving. Boots, doors,
and wings and interior yet to be fitted and sprayed.

14-01-2020 2:46pm

Savage stuff,
cant wait to get started on my own car (any year now).
Where do you buy your sheet metal?

kadman · 14-01-2020 3:16pm

I buy my sheetmetal from Donaghy Roofing in Kilbeggan. 2Mx1M sheets

1.2 mm and .9mm for shaped panels. And 1.5 Galvanised for the heater channels
that are structural elements.

Old and replacement channel made from galvanised material

Inside of fabricated heater channel.

Again, all of these parts were made with nothing more than garage hand tools and clamps,
nothing special at all, and a small bit of ingenuity.:)

BonnieSituation · 14-01-2020 3:57pm

"small bit"

You're some bucko

kadman · 14-01-2020 4:10pm

Thinking outside of the box, instead of stuck in it. Gets the job done:D

jmreire · 14-01-2020 5:40pm

I've done a fair share of Beetle's, but never a Varient...and I can't remember if they are they same floor / chassis set-up, but presume that they are???. With a ring of bolt's holding the body to the integrated floor / chassis and front / rear bulkhead's? Basically, you can drive the car around without the body...Very simple and accessible design, unlike some of the monstrosities service-wise out there now.
That heater duct /chassis section is some piece of engineering..." little ????" bit of ingenuity ????? Really !!!! Just prove's the different interpretation of "LITTLE" !!!! Ha Ha Ha...

kadman · 14-01-2020 8:22pm

Heater channel was by no means the hardest section to make, in fact it was one of the easiest.
Folded, drilled, and then the pipe installed. And the outlet shute.

I had a rusty original to follow, but no outer cill sections, so had to rely on
google images and careful matching to existing body panels.

Then the outer layers of the heater channel, inner cover , and outer cill.

More bashing

corner

Outer heater cover section

OIuter cill cover

All together.

jmreire · 14-01-2020 8:36pm

Very good ...you have taken out the floor as well????

kadman · 14-01-2020 9:15pm

jmreire wrote: »

Very good ...you have taken out the floor as well????

Body was seperated from the floor.

Metalwork and welding

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