Little Tern Project - 23 foxes shot

Maudi · 30-08-2019 5:53pm

Capercaillie wrote: »

In the rare (not so rare in reality) that a fox would get into the Little Tern colony, it would generally kill most of chicks present! Better to not let that happen, you need (best practice) intensive fox control around colony. Foxes would only need to be culled during tern breeding season. You will get backfill of foxes into area during Autumn/Winter so you would not get problem with rats.

Kestrels/Peregrines can sometimes predate tern colonies, Raptors are protected so you cannot cull them. Diversionary feeding works well for kestrels though to prevent them attacking colony.

Main avian predators would be corvids. Best solution for them is ladder/larsen traps.

I’m beginning to wonder now with the wholesale disregard to what’s right and wrong and the amateur approach of ill informed “ gamekeepers” with a shoot first policy if birds of prey are also “ game”

Maudi · 30-08-2019 6:04pm

FirstIn wrote: »

Shooting them isn’t 100% effective either. That’s for sure. Please ask BWI on this. They shot north of 23 and still lost tern / eggs to foxes. They’ve got it wrong.

In previous years they shot 4 or 5 and the colony did well. This year they went mad. Slaughtering so many foxes.

An electric fence should be 100% effective if correctly erected and manned.

The corncrake situation. there’s none in Wicklow. This is a Wicklow forum debating a topic raised which is a wicklow issue.

As can be seen this is an emotive subject. Getting a lot of attention on here ( which is usually very quiet) in a short period.

Bringing it to the attention of others is important and Facebook is probably best for that. Or if anyone has other suggestions ?

The terns need protecting but at what cost?
Every fox,rook, crow,hawk,stoat,pinemartin,Hedgehog,magpie to be shot
Talking about interfering in an eco system?
I’m all for terns but at what cost?

Maudi · 30-08-2019 6:24pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

If you are fencing off a beach with electric fence, how would you fence down to the water line?

Even with a fancy fence inland wouldn't the fox just go around the end?

Why would the fence go to the waterline?
Surely it would go parallel to the waterline right turn up the beach forming a square

Capercaillie · 30-08-2019 6:24pm

archer22 wrote: »

On the subject of electric fences...the ones I have seen some farmers use have certainly not been expensive or sophisticated,made of just ordinary stakes and wire from the co-ops, usually they use 3 strands of wire and according to them (and they should know) they do the job fine.

You don't need 12 foot high sophisticated electric fences costing tens of thousands to keep back Foxes!.
Thats the kind of fencing you would require for keeping Elephants and Lions from straying out of a national park in Africa...not keeping back Foxes in Ireland.

Another point is when you are using an electric fence on wetlands the resulting shock from it will be even more severe..resulting in an even greater deterrent effect.

Foxes can clear 8 foot easily. The fence would have go at least 3Ocm underground to prevent foxes digging under fence. The fence you describe would hardly hold sheep not to mind foxes.........

Capercaillie · 30-08-2019 6:26pm

Maudi wrote: »

The terns need protecting but at what cost?
Every fox,rook, crow,hawk,stoat,pinemartin,Hedgehog,magpie to be shot
Talking about interfering in an eco system?
I’m all for terns but at what cost?

Sparrowhawks, stoat, pinemartin and hedgehogs are protected and are not culled. Need to get your facts correct!

Maudi · 30-08-2019 6:29pm

Thinking outside the box and on the understanding that the terns welfare is forefront on our minds
But let’s pretend for a sec that foxes have been hit with some disease and are a protected species like owls or otters and it’s illegal to shoot them or trap them or kill their young
How would you protect the terns from them?

Capercaillie · 30-08-2019 6:32pm

Maudi wrote: »

Thinking outside the box and on the understanding that the terns welfare is forefront on our minds
But let’s pretend for a sec that foxes have been hit with some disease and are a protected species like owls or otters and it’s illegal to shoot them or trap them or kill their young
How would you protect the terns from them?

If they were that rare and densities were that low they would not be a problem. Very high densities of foxes in Ireland unfortunately.

thecomedian · 30-08-2019 6:42pm

archer22 wrote: »

On the subject of electric fences...the ones I have seen some farmers use have certainly not been expensive or sophisticated,made of just ordinary stakes and wire from the co-ops, usually they use 3 strands of wire and according to them (and they should know) they do the job fine.

You don't need 12 foot high sophisticated electric fences costing tens of thousands to keep back Foxes!.
Thats the kind of fencing you would require for keeping Elephants and Lions from straying out of a national park in Africa...not keeping back Foxes in Ireland.

Another point is when you are using an electric fence on wetlands the resulting shock from it will be even more severe..resulting in an even greater deterrent effect.

Rubbish.
I take you are not a livestock farmer.
You wouldn’t even keep sheep in with 3 strands never mind keep foxes out.
Go put up a few fences first and see how easy it is, especially beside the sea and beach where the ground isn’t solid and stable.
The only thing keeping this thread going is the entertainment from the rubbish being posted.

archer22 · 30-08-2019 6:51pm

Capercaillie wrote: »

Foxes can clear 8 foot easily. The fence would have go at least 3Ocm underground to prevent foxes digging under fence. The fence you describe would hardly hold sheep not to mind foxes.........

Yeah if they learn how to make pole vaults!

You seem to know nothing of the personality type that Foxes are...they do not have the psychological characteristics of Pitbull Dogs or Honey Badgers..in fact they are the polar opposite and are high strung skittish creatures, one or two wallops from an electric fence and they absolutely avoid that area again.

Lets but in a way that more people can understand...if you ever owned a high strung nervous Dog and see what would happen if they met an electric fence, they would certainly not back for more attempts at getting through it!

archer22 · 30-08-2019 6:53pm

thecomedian wrote: »

Rubbish.
I take you are not a livestock farmer.
You wouldn’t even keep sheep in with 3 strands never mind keep foxes out.
Go put up a few fences first and see how easy it is, especially beside the sea and beach where the ground isn’t solid and stable.
The only thing keeping this thread going is the entertainment from the rubbish being posted.

BS one strand keeps Cattle at bay...have you not noticed :rolleyes:

thecomedian · 30-08-2019 6:59pm

archer22 wrote: »

BS one strand keeps Cattle at bay...have you not noticed :rolleyes:

I said sheep... smartarse

The thread that just keeps giving

thecomedian · 30-08-2019 7:02pm

And a single strand will only hold cattle IF they want to stay there.
An eight foot wall is probably the only thing that would actually keep cattle in.

my3cents · 30-08-2019 7:02pm

archer22 wrote: »

BS one strand keeps Cattle at bay...have you not noticed :rolleyes:

One strand that a fox walks under ROTFL.

archer22 · 30-08-2019 7:02pm

thecomedian wrote: »

I said sheep... smartarse

The thread that just keeps giving

You obviously haven't noticed but the thread is about keeping Foxes out of the Tern colony...not keeping Sheep out of it :rolleyes:

archer22 · 30-08-2019 7:04pm

my3cents wrote: »

One strand that a fox walks under ROTFL.

Because it's set to keep Cattle back :rolleyes:

thecomedian · 30-08-2019 7:07pm

archer22 wrote: »

You obviously haven't noticed but the thread is about keeping Foxes out of the Tern colony...not keeping Sheep out of it :rolleyes:

I’m highlighting that you’re full of rubbish and know nothing about electric fences.

Capercaillie · 30-08-2019 7:08pm

archer22 wrote: »

Yeah if they learn how to make pole vaults!

You seem to know nothing of the personality type that Foxes are...they do not have the psychological characteristics of Pitbull Dogs or Honey Badgers..in fact they are the polar opposite and are high strung skittish creatures, one or two wallops from an electric fence and they absolutely avoid that area again.

Lets but in a way that more people can understand...if you ever owned a high strung nervous Dog and see what would happen if they met an electric fence, they would certainly not back for more attempts at getting through it!

Foxes jump more like cats than dogs. Foxes at BWI Annagh Marsh reserve were jumping over electrified "predator-proof" fence.........

thecomedian · 30-08-2019 7:09pm

archer22 wrote: »

Because it's set to keep Cattle back :rolleyes:

So if it keeps cattle it will keep the foxes out ðŸ™‚ðŸ™‚
Brilliant stuff

archer22 · 30-08-2019 7:09pm

thecomedian wrote: »

I’m highlighting that you’re full of rubbish and know nothing about electric fences.

I am not going to bother replying any further to this obvious troll.

Capercaillie · 30-08-2019 7:25pm

archer22 wrote: »

I am going to bother replying any further to this obvious troll.

In all fairness you know practically nothing about fencing if you think three stands of wire is going to stop a fox.

archer22 · 30-08-2019 7:27pm

Capercaillie wrote: »

In all fairness you know practically nothing about fencing if you think three stands of wire is going to stop a fox.

It works for the farmers using it...and I have no reason to believe that they are fools!

and that's 3 strands of ELECTRIFIED wire not just "three strands of wire".

thecomedian · 30-08-2019 7:29pm

archer22 wrote: »

It works for the farmers using it...and I have no reason to believe that they are fools!

Using it for what?

Working class heroes · 30-08-2019 7:33pm

thecomedian wrote: »

Rubbish.
I take you are not a livestock farmer.
You wouldn’t even keep sheep in with 3 strands never mind keep foxes out.
Go put up a few fences first and see how easy it is, especially beside the sea and beach where the ground isn’t solid and stable.
The only thing keeping this thread going is the entertainment from the rubbish being posted.

Ah now, no need for the insults. No matter what side of the debate people here have been reasonably civil. Let’s try and keep it that way, eh?

Eddie B · 30-08-2019 7:37pm

archer22 wrote: »

It works for the farmers using it...and I have no reason to believe that they are fools!

and that's 3 strands of ELECTRIFIED wire not just "three strands of wire".

Livestock break through fencing all the time. This is common knowledge. The difference is, that livestock breaking out into a neighbour's land, aint as catastrophic as a colony of nesting birds being wiped out over night. This is why, even with a predator proof fence, predator management is so important.

Bogwoppit · 30-08-2019 7:44pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

Ah now, no need for the insults. No matter what side of the debate people here have been reasonably civil. Let’s try and keep it that way, eh?

Most people have been reasonably civil apart from a few on your side accusing some of us as having depraved blood lusts and that we’re morally corrupt.

Not very civil I’d say, although in fairness to yourself you have been a level head in what is an emotional debate.

Capercaillie · 30-08-2019 7:45pm

archer22 wrote: »

It works for the farmers using it...and I have no reason to believe that they are fools!

and that's 3 strands of ELECTRIFIED wire not just "three strands of wire".

Maybe it was for pigs. I'm a part time farmer managing the land for corncrake, I can tell you that a three strand electric fence ain't going to stop a fox. If it did I'd put one up!!

FirstIn · 30-08-2019 7:48pm

This is a very serious thread. It’s a serious matter.

We are talking about an electric fence with more than 1 or 3 strands , no way is a fox going to touch it and then try to climb it if they get a decent shock from it when they first touch it. So it does not need to be that high.

People on here that strongly feel bwi are wrong shooting so many foxes please contact bwi and the National parks and wildlife service. Please let them know your feelings.

The logical steps are
1: through here , word of mouth , Facebook etc to bring the facts to the public (I’ve pointed out before bwi have not been forward on informing people of their slaughter)
2: for people to make their feelings known to bwi and national parks and wildlife service. Bird watch Ireland enjoys local support , they’ve pointed this out to me and I’d like to think it matters to them that this support will be dented by these revelations
3: for us to try and point out to them that shooting foxes is not the answer. That the rabbit story is rubbish. That shooting and creating a void simply leads to more foxes entering the area and then more being shot.
4: to try and get a commitment from them to change their approach.

Next year it may take signs / banners / protests at the site to make sure those that are present / walking by are also made aware of this carnage.

archer22 · 30-08-2019 7:49pm

Capercaillie wrote: »

Maybe it was for pigs. I'm a part time farmer managing the land for corncrake, I can tell you that a three strand electric fence ain't going to stop a fox. If it did I'd put one up!!

Whaat!..are you actually bothering to read this thread

I said it was to keep Foxes out of lambing paddocks!

Bogwoppit · 30-08-2019 7:52pm

I’ve had a fox clear the metal fence panels you see around construction sites, I had 2 strands of electric fence on the outside.
Fox got in and killed 12 chickens and 6 ducks but couldn’t get back over the fence with them so they were left.
Luckily he had a taste and came back the next night again.
Those fences are about 7ft and the electric fence didn’t deter the fox from returning.

Bogwoppit · 30-08-2019 7:54pm

FirstIn wrote: »

This is a very serious thread. It’s a serious matter.

We are talking about an electric fence with more than 1 or 3 strands , no way is a fox going to touch it and then try to climb it if they get a decent shock from it when they first touch it. So it does not need to be that high.

People on here that strongly feel bwi are wrong shooting so many foxes please contact bwi and the National parks and wildlife service. Please let them know your feelings.

The logical steps are
1: through here , word of mouth , Facebook etc to bring the facts to the public (I’ve pointed out before bwi have not been forward on informing people of their slaughter)
2: for people to make their feelings known to bwi and national parks and wildlife service. Bird watch Ireland enjoys local support , they’ve pointed this out to me and I’d like to think it matters to them that this support will be dented by these revelations
3: for us to try and point out to them that shooting foxes is not the answer. That the rabbit story is rubbish. That shooting and creating a void simply leads to more foxes entering the area and then more being shot.
4: to try and get a commitment from them to change their approach.

Next year it may take signs / banners / protests at the site to make sure those that are present / walking by are also made aware of this carnage.

I shall be contacting bwi to tell them I support their very valuable and effective work.

JJayoo · 30-08-2019 7:55pm

The life span of a fox is 2-5 years. In the wild foxes die from disease or starvation slowly withering away over the course of a few weeks before drawing into a ditch to die.

Although you may not like the thought of it, having a trained marksman shoot a fox is the best possible death the animal could have because it is pretty much instant, no stress,no starving no disease or wasting away over weeks, one minute the fox is alive, next they are dead.

Now you shouldn't be shooting foxes when they have babies, it should be done once all the young are grown and have moved on from their parents.

Capercaillie · 30-08-2019 7:55pm

archer22 wrote: »

Whaat!..are you actually bothering to read this thread

I said it was to keep Foxes out of lambing paddocks!

OK, would be a deterrent but they will still get through if they want to.

Capercaillie · 30-08-2019 7:57pm

FirstIn wrote: »

This is a very serious thread. It’s a serious matter.

We are talking about an electric fence with more than 1 or 3 strands , no way is a fox going to touch it and then try to climb it if they get a decent shock from it when they first touch it. So it does not need to be that high.

People on here that strongly feel bwi are wrong shooting so many foxes please contact bwi and the National parks and wildlife service. Please let them know your feelings.

The logical steps are
1: through here , word of mouth , Facebook etc to bring the facts to the public (I’ve pointed out before bwi have not been forward on informing people of their slaughter)
2: for people to make their feelings known to bwi and national parks and wildlife service. Bird watch Ireland enjoys local support , they’ve pointed this out to me and I’d like to think it matters to them that this support will be dented by these revelations
3: for us to try and point out to them that shooting foxes is not the answer. That the rabbit story is rubbish. That shooting and creating a void simply leads to more foxes entering the area and then more being shot.
4: to try and get a commitment from them to change their approach.

Next year it may take signs / banners / protests at the site to make sure those that are present / walking by are also made aware of this carnage.

Well done, you going to lead a protest to basically eradicate the little tern from Kilcoole.........

thecomedian · 30-08-2019 8:03pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

Ah now, no need for the insults. No matter what side of the debate people here have been reasonably civil. Let’s try and keep it that way, eh?

It wasn’t meant to insult but his posts were completely wrong and needed to be highlighted.

I don’t like seeing foxes killed, they are a beautiful animal but too keep a colony of rare birds alive I can understand that killing the local foxes has to be done.

Eddie B · 30-08-2019 8:09pm

FirstIn wrote: »

This is a very serious thread. It’s a serious matter.

We are talking about an electric fence with more than 1 or 3 strands , no way is a fox going to touch it and then try to climb it if they get a decent shock from it when they first touch it. So it does not need to be that high.

People on here that strongly feel bwi are wrong shooting so many foxes please contact bwi and the National parks and wildlife service. Please let them know your feelings.

The logical steps are
1: through here , word of mouth , Facebook etc to bring the facts to the public (I’ve pointed out before bwi have not been forward on informing people of their slaughter)
2: for people to make their feelings known to bwi and national parks and wildlife service. Bird watch Ireland enjoys local support , they’ve pointed this out to me and I’d like to think it matters to them that this support will be dented by these revelations
3: for us to try and point out to them that shooting foxes is not the answer. That the rabbit story is rubbish. That shooting and creating a void simply leads to more foxes entering the area and then more being shot.
4: to try and get a commitment from them to change their approach.

Next year it may take signs / banners / protests at the site to make sure those that are present / walking by are also made aware of this carnage.

Sorry, but what you suggest won't really solve the problem. Those who oppose the management of fox numbers in area's of this importance, need to come up with an alternative solution. And I don't mean shouting "build a fence" or " scare them away". That just aint good enough. Better off raising funds to do research on a realistic solution, than protests and banners. Maybe instead of rallying a protest march, instead rally a dedicated group of volunteers to help BWI to save some of our endangered species.

Annasopra · 30-08-2019 8:11pm

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Mod final warning

Drop the smart comments sniping at each other. Drop the conspiracies that people from BWI are descending here en masse.

If you cant have a civil conversation without sniping at each other or accusations of BWI shilling then we may have to lock the thread

It seems some posters ignored my FINAL warning

Little Tern Project - 23 foxes shot

Comments