Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

theguzman · 10-07-2019 10:56pm

Donegal Storm wrote: »

The last census has 13k Brazilians in the whole country, even accounting for a rise since 2016 and some illegals/dual nationals the number is nowhere remotely close to 100k.

Its a figure I heard recently, then again all latin people are lumped in as Brazilian due to Brazil being the biggest demo-graph, same as the Eastern Europeans all being lumped together as Polish. Anyway we will go back to Aer Lingus routes and it is fair to say that an Ireland - Brazil air link won't materialise anytime soon with Aer Lingus anyway.

L1011 · 10-07-2019 10:57pm

Absolutely no set of legitimate figures has EVER done that "lumping"

JCX BXC · 10-07-2019 11:02pm

If 100,000 Brazilians lived in Ireland, it would make it the second biggest foreign nationality, after polish and only falling short of the amount of Brits here!

ongarboy · 11-07-2019 8:41am

Looking up - Aer Lingus boss is aiming to reach new heights as carrier expands its fleet and routes

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/looking-up-aer-lingus-boss-is-aiming-to-reach-new-heights-as-carrier-expands-its-fleet-and-routes-38299933.html

In-depth article in Indo this morning about EI's new aircraft being received and possible new routes. The CEO Sean Doyle mentions Vegas so it may not be just a boards.ie pipedream...

sherology · 11-07-2019 8:55am

ongarboy wrote: »

Looking up - Aer Lingus boss is aiming to reach new heights as carrier expands its fleet and routes

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/looking-up-aer-lingus-boss-is-aiming-to-reach-new-heights-as-carrier-expands-its-fleet-and-routes-38299933.html

In-depth article in Indo this morning about EI's new aircraft being received and possible new routes. The CEO Sean Doyle mentions Vegas so it may not be just a boards.ie pipedream...

And the economy seat is a Collins Aerospace seat as opposed to the recaro 3710 on the 330's. Maybe they are grey/leather as per the photo posted on twitter last week. Odd... Wonder why the change?

F

Jamie2k9 · 11-07-2019 11:16am

mactheknife19 wrote: »

Wondering if anyone here would have an insight into AL's 2020 timetable. I've a friend who is having a wedding in Palma in May 2020. Currently there are no flights online. Ryanair does but the scheduling does not really work (flights are out on the Thursday), but most people need to go on the Wednesday.

Maybe someone could confirm if AL even flew to Palma in May 2019, or is June the earliest.

Available now.

Tenger · 11-07-2019 5:23pm

ongarboy wrote: »

.......The CEO Sean Doyle mentions Vegas so it may not be just a boards.ie pipedream...

Bit of a stretch to say the CEO mentioned LAS in my opinion. No actual quote about LAS, just the journalist inferring it.
But it is true that Vegas has previously been mentioned as in the shortlist of 15-20 cities that EI are looking at.

.....Aer Lingus has also previously identified cities including Denver, Las Vegas and Vancouver as potential destinations.
............................
Doyle says his sense is that cities such as Denver and Las Vegas would require wide-body aircraft.
"I think they're big markets and there seems to be growing demand there, so they would be in the framework of what we're evaluating at the minute," he adds.
"The A330 works very, very well on the west coast markets," says the chief executive. It is also used on routes to New York and Boston.

Crock Rock · 11-07-2019 5:25pm

Would EI have a market to operate a route from each of the Aran Islands to Dublin (especially around Christmas time), maybe stopping in Conemara airport? I'd say there would be a market for that route, maybe I'm wrong though.

Would an ATR land on Inisheer, Inismaan or Inismore? What about an Avro? They can take off and land on a sixpence.

goingnowhere · 11-07-2019 6:33pm

Pure fantasy, 500m of runway?

cson · 11-07-2019 8:14pm

Crock Rock wrote: »

Would EI have a market to operate a route from each of the Aran Islands to Dublin (especially around Christmas time), maybe stopping in Conemara airport? I'd say there would be a market for that route, maybe I'm wrong though.

Would an ATR land on Inisheer, Inismaan or Inismore? What about an Avro? They can take off and land on a sixpence.

I think this is a joke...

There are total 1200 people on the islands. They already have a PSO service.

The growth you'll see in the EI route network will almost certainly come entirely from North America. Not Brazil. Not the Aran Islands. Not Bangkok. The airline has a fleet of 49 aircraft, all of which are at the upper end of the utilization scale.

Jamie2k9 · 12-07-2019 10:51am

Tenger wrote: »

Bit of a stretch to say the CEO mentioned LAS in my opinion. No actual quote about LAS, just the journalist inferring it.
But it is true that Vegas has previously been mentioned as in the shortlist of 15-20 cities that EI are looking at.

.....Aer Lingus has also previously identified cities including Denver, Las Vegas and Vancouver as potential destinations.
............................
Doyle says his sense is that cities such as Denver and Las Vegas would require wide-body aircraft.
"I think they're big markets and there seems to be growing demand there, so they would be in the framework of what we're evaluating at the minute," he adds.
"The A330 works very, very well on the west coast markets," says the chief executive. It is also used on routes to New York and Boston.

He is well rehearsed, throwing out DEN, LAS both not been considered as far as I know although DEN would be an excellent addition.

cson · 12-07-2019 3:32pm

DEN will happen. It's a huge airport (64m pax per year) yet only has ~6 direct European routes.

alancostello · 12-07-2019 3:35pm

cson wrote: »

DEN will happen. It's a huge airport (64m pax per year) yet only has ~6 direct European routes.

It's only so big because of Frontier, Southwest, and United. If the AA JV goes through I wouldn't be so sure you'll see it, especially given the hot and high conditions I don't know if an XLR would be able to do it (and arguably these conditions are part of why there are so few transatlantic routes to begin with).

Tenger · 12-07-2019 3:47pm

Moving the LRs onto lower demand East Cast routes frees up the A332 to operate into some new airports.

2 new A330s coming over the winter. Lets say 1 covers extra SEA/SFO flights, the other covers the DUB-LAX route being upguaged.
Thus there is a 'spare' A332 to be allocated somewhere. Introducing the A321LRs next summer could 'free up' another A332 again.
There's more capacity if the rumoured ex-Jet Airways aircraft make it here (although this talk of not enough staff could be an issue)

alancostello · 12-07-2019 3:50pm

Tenger wrote: »

Moving the LRs onto lower demand East Cast routes frees up the A332 to operate into some new airports.

2 new A330s coming over the winter. Lets say 1 covers extra SEA/SFO flights, the other covers the DUB-LAX route being upguaged.
Thus there is a 'spare' A332 to be allocated somewhere. Introducing the A321LRs next summer could 'free up' another A332 again.
There's more capacity if the rumoured ex-Jet Airways aircraft make it here (although this talk of not enough staff could be an issue)

Which routes do you think are low demand and would be downgraded? And does that include older -200s being retired? If EWR goes and if LAX goes too then the two frames are taken up, the ex-Jet frames seem far from certain.

Wouldn't DEN need a crew rest too?

liiga · 12-07-2019 5:01pm

It be nice to see Detroit on aerlingus route map

Cloudio9 · 12-07-2019 7:48pm

Any prospect of a premium economy product ? Trend on long haul seems to be to squash even more seats in to back (going 10 across on 777) and add premium economy.

Due to my co travel policy I’ll continue to connect to the US until EI offers PE.

Tenger · 12-07-2019 9:27pm

alancostello wrote: »

Which routes do you think are low demand and would be downgraded? And does that include older -200s being retired? If EWR goes and if LAX goes too then the two frames are taken up, the ex-Jet frames seem far from certain.

Wouldn't DEN need a crew rest too?

I dont think the older -200s will leave the fleet before 2021. I think we will see a replacement order announced within 18 months.
But who knows, with 10 new aircraft due for delivery before Q3 2020 we may see a leased A332 depart in late 2020?

Not sure on 'low demand' routes to be honest. Hard to know from the outside. I think DC, Toronto and Orlando are mostly -200 routes.
Can the A321LR reach Orlando, thus allowing a daily flight? This could suit EI sales more than the current 4x weekly. I doubt they carry much cargo on that route?
Maybe replace a BOS/JFK rotation with 2 A321LR to offer 3 departures a day?

sdanseo · 12-07-2019 10:53pm

Tenger wrote: »

I dont think the older -200s will leave the fleet before 2021. I think we will see a replacement order announced within 18 months.
But who knows, with 10 new aircraft due for delivery before Q3 2020 we may see a leased A332 depart in late 2020?

Not sure on 'low demand' routes to be honest. Hard to know from the outside. I think DC, Toronto and Orlando are mostly -200 routes.
Can the A321LR reach Orlando, thus allowing a daily flight? This could suit EI sales more than the current 4x weekly. I doubt they carry much cargo on that route?
Maybe replace a BOS/JFK rotation with 2 A321LR to offer 3 departures a day?

Quite a bit of cargo on MIA, not sure about MCO.

Mostly cruise ships, retail goods from Europe going west and topping up ships that are over here with supplies from home.

kevinandrew · 12-07-2019 11:23pm

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Any prospect of a premium economy product ? Trend on long haul seems to be to squash even more seats in to back (going 10 across on 777) and add premium economy.

Due to my co travel policy I’ll continue to connect to the US until EI offers PE.

Aer Lingus essentially provides a 'build your own' premium economy on long haul, if you purchase an extra legroom seat, a wifi package and upgrade your meal you've got the basics of most premium economy products for a generally lower price.

As for actually adding a true premium economy product, it would require some careful calculations as it would likely come at the cost of a number of economy seats and risk weakening business class yields. I fully expected the A350s to feature a premium economy cabin mainly due to the additional floor space they come with but that's unlikely now.

goingnowhere · 12-07-2019 11:38pm

The A321LR is no good for freight it barely has enough space for the bags due the ACT's taking up a huge amount of space in the hold.

Don't read -200 as low volume routes, it more about best use of the hull, two of the -200, GEY and EWR are not fitted for crew rest so are stuck on East coast ops.

EI currently only have 2 A330-300 HGW with crew rest so can only run SFO as -300, with 2 more coming LAX will be upped to -300

I'd bet on double daily A321 IAD or PHL to try to grow the market and improve connection options, only route that could make sense, the volumes on JFK, BOS and ORD leave you with no choice but A330

Lets say you have 8 A321's
1 spare in DUB, which actually are running LHR/CDG/FRA/AMS in the evening
1 BDL (+LHR)
1 MSP (+CDG)
2 PHL (+FRA/AMS)
1 IAD (+BRU?)
1 SNN/BOS (+LHR)
1 SNN/JFK

Thats an insane level of flying for a hull, bean counters will love it, but you would need a notional hull on the ground as backup

Bussywussy · 12-07-2019 11:45pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

The A321LR is no good for freight it barely has enough space for the bags due the ACT's taking up a huge amount of space in the hold.

Don't read -200 as low volume routes, it more about best use of the hull, two of the -200, GEY and EWR are not fitted for crew rest so are stuck on East coast ops.

EI currently only have 2 A330-300 HGW with crew rest so can only run SFO as -300, with 2 more coming LAX will be upped to -300

I'd bet on double daily IAD or PHL to try to grow the market and improve connection options, only route that could make sense, the volumes on JFK, BOS and ORD leave you with no choice but A330

GEY is now officially a proper west coast sub as they can curtain off seats if needs be,it will be a west coast aircraft after next winter(Vegas :-) )

Jamie2k9 · 13-07-2019 12:00am

alancostello wrote: »

It's only so big because of Frontier, Southwest, and United. If the AA JV goes through I wouldn't be so sure you'll see it, especially given the hot and high conditions I don't know if an XLR would be able to do it (and arguably these conditions are part of why there are so few transatlantic routes to begin with).

I do think it will happen even with AA JV but I don't believe it's on the cards next year.

I'd bet on double daily A321 IAD or PHL to try to grow the market and improve connection options, only route that could make sense, the volumes on JFK, BOS and ORD leave you with no choice but A330

I would bet on JFK/BOS/EWR getting an extra daily service with A321LR before IAD/PHL.

Will be interesting to see if JFK day time flight resumes next year.

Tenger · 13-07-2019 12:08am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

................
I would bet on JFK/BOS/EWR getting an extra daily service with A321LR before IAD/PHL.

Will be interesting to see if JFK day time flight resumes next year.

I think a 3rd JFK (or even a 2nd EWR) seems like an obvious use of the A321LR to increase capacity. The previous early DUB-JFK summer flight was reportedly very popular.

Definitely agree with the idea that a -200 doesnt automatically mean lower demand.

cson · 13-07-2019 12:18am

kevinandrew wrote: »

Aer Lingus essentially provides a 'build your own' premium economy on long haul, if you purchase an extra legroom seat, a wifi package and upgrade your meal you've got the basics of most premium economy products for a generally lower price.

As for actually adding a true premium economy product, it would require some careful calculations as it would likely come at the cost of a number of economy seats and risk weakening business class yields. I fully expected the A350s to feature a premium economy cabin mainly due to the additional floor space they come with but that's unlikely now.

Respectfully disagree.

If you package up an economy ticket with what you've described you get at best PE light. If you look at what AA and BA have in their PE offerings the hard product is really good, effectively a US3 domestic first seat with a larger IFE screen and power points (key if you want to use a laptop) in addition to the meal being served on china (not sure if EI do this with meal upgrades?), and complimentary beer/wine/spirits. You can't compare the two.

PE is where yield growth will come from in the future imo. It's J class light for folks that can't afford J class but want a more comfortable travel experience.

cson · 13-07-2019 12:27am

alancostello wrote: »

It's only so big because of Frontier, Southwest, and United. If the AA JV goes through I wouldn't be so sure you'll see it, especially given the hot and high conditions I don't know if an XLR would be able to do it (and arguably these conditions are part of why there are so few transatlantic routes to begin with).

And Dublin is only so big because of EI and FR...

With regard to the AA JV, American have limited ops in DEN - primarily connections to their hubs. So there would ostensibly be room for a direct to Dublin with connections to Europe. Even Amsterdam doesn't have a direct and I think we're all aware of how busy DUB-AMS is right now.

DEN & IAH are the obvious candidates for new routes, and seeing as its mentioned above re double daily on IAD; if I were EI I'd look at BWI which serves a huge MSA and only has BA & Condor as links to Europe.

kevinandrew · 13-07-2019 1:27am

cson wrote: »

kevinandrew wrote: »

Aer Lingus essentially provides a 'build your own' premium economy on long haul, if you purchase an extra legroom seat, a wifi package and upgrade your meal you've got the basics of most premium economy products for a generally lower price.

As for actually adding a true premium economy product, it would require some careful calculations as it would likely come at the cost of a number of economy seats and risk weakening business class yields. I fully expected the A350s to feature a premium economy cabin mainly due to the additional floor space they come with but that's unlikely now.

Respectfully disagree.

If you package up an economy ticket with what you've described you get at best PE light. If you look at what AA and BA have in their PE offerings the hard product is really good, effectively a US3 domestic first seat with a larger IFE screen and power points (key if you want to use a laptop) in addition to the meal being served on china (not sure if EI do this with meal upgrades?), and complimentary beer/wine/spirits. You can't compare the two.

PE is where yield growth will come from in the future imo. It's J class light for folks that can't afford J class but want a more comfortable travel experience.

I did say the Aer Lingus add ons achieve the basics of premium economy, not the full experience; the extra room, better meal which is indeed served on china with wine, wifi and a seat in the forward cabin. Aer Lingus also has power outlets in economy. Obviously you can't get all the bells and whistles of a true premium product but you get close enough for a usually lower price.

Having flown BA World Traveller Plus just a few months back and quite regularly in the past, it really isn't anything special in comparison to the 'build your own' premium economy you can achieve with Aer Lingus. The IFE screen was the same size, the meal was actually of poorer quality, size and presentation and there was no free wifi or much else for that matter. Even the breakfast just consisted of a protein bar, if you want tea you need to ask for it. The only clear advantages would be the bigger seat, the additional tier points and priority boarding. Granted, BA is probably the weakest in the premium economy market but even so, the others aren't exactly leaps and bounds ahead.

I agree with you about it being a great future revenue generator, it's considered a sweet spot between economy and business and there are definitely people out there willing to pay more for it, myself included, but in terms of value it's not always the best option especially when an airline like Aer Lingus offers so many add ons to its own economy that it replicates the basics for a fraction of the price.

That's not to say I don't think Aer Lingus will offer it, just that it needs to be justified and carefully calculated. The question is will the additional revenue from a premium economy cover the cost of removing an average of two economy rows and a hit on business yields when floor space on the A330 is already maxed out.

Tenger · 13-07-2019 10:25am

Im thinking that EI have akready had this debate internally. Adding Y+ or PE was certainly on the table 5-6 years ago when they were still expecting A350 deliveries.
The current J/Y config won out.

Perhaps with the introduction of AerSpace tickets and the J class seats on selected Euro routes they may see more interest and decide to reconsider this position.

HTCOne · 13-07-2019 1:06pm

I'm open to correction here, but I thought FNG & FNH were both the 242t HGW variant, just without crew rests? As such they're flown de-rated to save on handling costs (ATC charge more the heavier the aircraft, as do airports).

Lapmo_Dancer · 13-07-2019 3:54pm

Bussywussy wrote: »

GEY is now officially a proper west coast sub as they can curtain off seats if needs be,it will be a west coast aircraft after next winter(Vegas :-) )

They’ll curtain off business class seats for flight deck and cabin crew? What would that be, six seats? Can’t see that working unless they put in an LDMCR too and have one business seat for the flight deck, same as LAX/DAA

Bussywussy · 13-07-2019 4:17pm

HTCOne wrote: »

I'm open to correction here, but I thought FNG & FNH were both the 242t HGW variant, just without crew rests? As such they're flown de-rated to save on handling costs (ATC charge more the heavier the aircraft, as do airports).

Correct

Bussywussy · 13-07-2019 4:18pm

Lapmo_Dancer wrote: »

They’ll curtain off business class seats for flight deck and cabin crew? What would that be, six seats? Can’t see that working unless they put in an LDMCR too and have one business seat for the flight deck, same as LAX/DAA

Economy class for cabin crew,its only in worst case scenario to avoid a cancellation etc..the LDMCR will be fitted in november all going to plan.

Shamrockj · 13-07-2019 5:44pm

Bussywussy wrote: »

Economy class for cabin crew,its only in worst case scenario to avoid a cancellation etc..the LDMCR will be fitted in november all going to plan.

Has to have parallel rest for crew to west coast e.g ldmcr otherwise business class has to be empty and used as a rest area. Economy class isn't suitable

Karl8415 · 13-07-2019 7:18pm

HTCOne wrote: »

I'm open to correction here, but I thought FNG & FNH were both the 242t HGW variant, just without crew rests? As such they're flown de-rated to save on handling costs (ATC charge more the heavier the aircraft, as do airports).

I think what EI have done with having FNG/FNH de-rated is to give them options should they require frames to travel longer distances in the future so instead of having to source additional frames to join the fleet they’ll just have these 2 up-rated which in turn gives them the extra 9T MTOW,having said that if I’m not mistaken I think the 2 new 300’s that are joining soon will enter the fleet at 242T and I think I’ve read somewhere recently that it’s rumored that the reg on both will be EI-EIM and EI-EIN

john boye · 13-07-2019 7:37pm

Karl8415 wrote: »

I think what EI have done with having FNG/FNH de-rated is to give them options should they require frames to travel longer distances in the future so instead of having to source additional frames to join the fleet they’ll just have these 2 up-rated which in turn gives them the extra 9T MTOW,having said that if I’m not mistaken I think the 2 new 300’s that are joining soon will enter the fleet at 242T and I think I’ve read somewhere recently that it’s rumored that the reg on both will be EI-EIM and EI-EIN

Agonisingly close to EI-EIO.

EchoIndia · 13-07-2019 7:48pm

john boye wrote: »

Agonisingly close to EI-EIO.

Which has already been used.https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/view/1022616/

john boye · 13-07-2019 8:00pm

EchoIndia wrote: »

Which has already been used.https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/view/1022616/

Oh right, I thought I read here before that it was never taken.

Marcusm · 13-07-2019 9:29pm

cson wrote: »

And Dublin is only so big because of EI and FR...

With regard to the AA JV, American have limited ops in DEN - primarily connections to their hubs. So there would ostensibly be room for a direct to Dublin with connections to Europe. Even Amsterdam doesn't have a direct and I think we're all aware of how busy DUB-AMS is right now.

DEN & IAH are the obvious candidates for new routes, and seeing as its mentioned above re double daily on IAD; if I were EI I'd look at BWI which serves a huge MSA and only has BA & Condor as links to Europe.

With flights to IAD (60 miles by road) and PHL (100 miles by road and an AA hub), I really can’t see BWI being a serious option.

I’d have doubts about DEN too - might PHX be a more likely option.

Cloudio9 · 13-07-2019 9:34pm

kevinandrew wrote: »

I did say the Aer Lingus add ons achieve the basics of premium economy, not the full experience; the extra room, better meal which is indeed served on china with wine, wifi and a seat in the forward cabin. Aer Lingus also has power outlets in economy. Obviously you can't get all the bells and whistles of a true premium product but you get close enough for a usually lower price.

Having flown BA World Traveller Plus just a few months back and quite regularly in the past, it really isn't anything special in comparison to the 'build your own' premium economy you can achieve with Aer Lingus. The IFE screen was the same size, the meal was actually of poorer quality, size and presentation and there was no free wifi or much else for that matter. Even the breakfast just consisted of a protein bar, if you want tea you need to ask for it. The only clear advantages would be the bigger seat, the additional tier points and priority boarding. Granted, BA is probably the weakest in the premium economy market but even so, the others aren't exactly leaps and bounds ahead.

I agree with you about it being a great future revenue generator, it's considered a sweet spot between economy and business and there are definitely people out there willing to pay more for it, myself included, but in terms of value it's not always the best option especially when an airline like Aer Lingus offers so many add ons to its own economy that it replicates the basics for a fraction of the price.

That's not to say I don't think Aer Lingus will offer it, just that it needs to be justified and carefully calculated. The question is will the additional revenue from a premium economy cover the cost of removing an average of two economy rows and a hit on business yields when floor space on the A330 is already maxed out.

The value in PE for me is the wider seat and armrests. None of the EI lipstick on a pig stuff has much value for me. The PE seat on American is very good and for a daytime flight I don’t feel like I’m missing out much not being in J. The mini cabin too makes it all a bit quieter and more pleasant.

Jack1985 · 13-07-2019 11:34pm

Shamrockj wrote: »

Has to have parallel rest for crew to west coast e.g ldmcr otherwise business class has to be empty and used as a rest area. Economy class isn't suitable

Correct!

MICKEYG · 14-07-2019 8:40am

Hi all. I was on EI422 to Venice which was delyayed on Thursday morning due to a technical fault.
In the end we had to switch planes and landed over 3 hours late.
I looked it up and it's not clear to me if we are entitled to compensation under the EU rules.
Any help or direction on how to pursue would be welcome.
Thanks in advance.

goingnowhere · 14-07-2019 9:02am

EC261 claim is valid, technical faults are not considered 'exceptional'

https://www.aerlingus.com/support/forms/post-travel-enquiry/

Bussywussy · 14-07-2019 10:26am

Shamrockj wrote: »

Has to have parallel rest for crew to west coast e.g ldmcr otherwise business class has to be empty and used as a rest area. Economy class isn't suitable

It's amazing what an envelope has done in the past

cson · 14-07-2019 11:45am

Marcusm wrote: »

With flights to IAD (60 miles by road) and PHL (100 miles by road and an AA hub), I really can’t see BWI being a serious option.

I’d have doubts about DEN too - might PHX be a more likely option.

The Baltimore-Columbia-Towson (2.8m people) MSA has the lightest European route network (2 routes) of the Top 20 MSA's in the US. Anecdotally you have a lot of folks east of the DMV that prefer to use BWI. I think it could very well be a opportunity for EI, IAG have similar route economics to hand with the BA LHR service. The airport is also the busiest of the 3 WAS airports.

I think you may be someone who's never had to travel I95 on the regular with referencing IAD & PHL "only" being 60 & 100 miles away by road either.

goingnowhere · 14-07-2019 11:59am

EI has flown to BWI before and left the route. Upping frequency to IAD makes more sense if you want to drive more connections

Van.Bosch · 14-07-2019 2:59pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

EI has flown to BWI before and left the route. Upping frequency to IAD makes more sense if you want to drive more connections

True but EI was a totally different company then, a lot has moved on. Then it was mainly point to point they targeted.

Jack1985 · 15-07-2019 12:13am

EI was prohibited from flying to Dulles when they chose to fly to Baltimore “Washington Baltimore” in early 2000.

The then bilateral air agreement between Ireland and the US restricted EI to four cities Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles and New York by using JFK.

Cleverly at that time Cahill used a loophole and pressure on local Governors in the US through the Irish State to add Newark (seen as a second gateway to NY) and by adding Baltimore to service Washington. The agreement labelled both those airports at the time as secondary airports and thus EI was able to proceed with them.

Obviously a complete different business model was used at that time, with mainly Irish and Americans for P2P on the transatlantics. Comparing them now, EI have an intention to boost Dulles (already adding the -300 daily next summer as it’s regularly overbooked).

Lapmo_Dancer · 15-07-2019 12:51pm

Bussywussy wrote: »

It's amazing what an envelope has done in the past

There are 5 west coast aircraft for 3 routes, SEA isn’t even daily, so not sure if this has ever actually happened?

Even if it did, as a once off to avoid the cancellation of a flight, do you not think crew are entitled to compensation for agreeing to work outside their working conditions? Maybe they should have refused and had the flight canceled to avoid such a precedent?

Kev11491 · 15-07-2019 1:54pm

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but is there anything stopping EI from flying into Reagan national in DC? Initially I just assumed it was aircraft size but I'm sure the a321lr would suit it. Obviously have CBP here should make it easier too. I had a similiar thought about La Guardia

Van.Bosch · 15-07-2019 1:58pm

Kev11491 wrote: »

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but is there anything stopping EI from flying into Reagan national in DC? Initially I just assumed it was aircraft size but I'm sure the a321lr would suit it. Obviously have CBP here should make it easier too. I had a similiar thought about La Guardia

Yes - DCA only allows flights from within x distance, which Dublin would not be in. There are a limited number of exceptions though.

Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

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