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Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

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    #9332
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    54&56 wrote: »
    I'm 50 years of age and the only people I know that still use pounds and ounces are drawing their pensions. My adult children don't even know what pounds and ounces are!!! Same goes for Miles Vs Kilometres.
    Did you ever watch "Operation transformation" all weights and heights were in pounds, and many other programmes on TV and Radio people commonly use imperial measurements.


    Personally, I use metric, but often find I need to change to imperial to get people to understand me.


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    #9333
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,644 ✭✭✭54and56


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Did you ever watch "Operation transformation"

    Nope.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    all weights and heights were in pounds, and many other programmes on TV and Radio people commonly use imperial measurements.

    Like what? Traffic bulletins? Weather forecasts? Maybe I'm blind to the use of Imperial terms but I honestly don't notice their use. Even my golf club switched from yards to metres years ago.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Personally, I use metric, but often find I need to change to imperial to get people to understand me.

    I'd bet all the people who need you to use Imperial measurements in order to understand you are grey haired and close to or beyond retirement.


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    #9334
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,461 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Did you ever watch "Operation transformation" all weights and heights were in pounds, and many other programmes on TV and Radio people commonly use imperial measurements.


    It is ridiculous that public bodies like Safefood and RTE are still pushing this imperial crap. I am an anti imperialist.


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    #9335
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    It won't be long before the Metric Martyrs are viewed in the same light as the Birmingham Six, the way things are going.


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    #9336
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    54&56 wrote: »
    Nope.



    Like what? Traffic bulletins? Weather forecasts? Maybe I'm blind to the use of Imperial terms but I honestly don't notice their use. Even my golf club switched from yards to metres years ago.



    I'd bet all the people who need you to use Imperial measurements in order to understand you are grey haired and close to or beyond retirement.
    Many are surprisingly young, ask anyone what their baby weighed at birth, see what unit they use.


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    #9337
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,644 ✭✭✭54and56


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Many are surprisingly young, ask anyone what their baby weighed at birth, see what unit they use.

    That's an interesting and exceptional example. I can only assume the reason most birth weights are still expressed in Imperial terms are that one of the most important recipients of the info are grand parents and that the weight needs to be comparable for the parents to digest i.e. somehow through built in legacy we all know that 7lbs 8oz or 8lbs 10oz sounds healthy whereas 3.25 KG's isn't something we can relate to previous experience.

    Interestingly in my experience kids weight starts off for a few weeks being defined in pounds and ounces and then quickly and permanently migrates to KG's.

    I know the weight of my kids in KG's and they compare it amongst their friends (particularly my son amongst his gym going friends) in KG's. He has no idea what a pound or an ounce is so it will be interesting in a few years if/when he has kids will he initially reference their new born weight in pounds and ounces.


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    #9338
    Mezcita
    Registered Users Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭Mezcita


    54&56 wrote: »
    That's an interesting and exceptional example. I can only assume the reason most birth weights are still expressed in Imperial terms are that one of the most important recipients of the info are grand parents and that the weight needs to be comparable for the parents to digest i.e. somehow through built in legacy we all know that 7lbs 8oz or 8lbs 10oz sounds healthy whereas 3.25 KG's isn't something we can relate to previous experience.

    Interestingly in my experience kids weight starts off for a few weeks being defined in pounds and ounces and then quickly and permanently migrates to KG's.

    I know the weight of my kids in KG's and they compare it amongst their friends (particularly my son amongst his gym going friends) in KG's. He has no idea what a pound or an ounce is so it will be interesting in a few years if/when he has kids will he initially reference their new born weight in pounds and ounces.

    What, in the name of all that is holy, does this have to do with Brexit?


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    #9339
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,619 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Many are surprisingly young, ask anyone what their baby weighed at birth, see what unit they use.

    Yes usually because they have to communicate it to their ma. Or other edgits. Like they know what a pound is in reality anyway.

    My experience is people don't have a breeze..it never translates to the physical.


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    #9340
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,700 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Sarah Full Muck wrote: »
    UK Politics appears to have gone much loco:
    Brexit Party set to make European elections HISTORY - largest share of UK vote in 25 YEARS*

    *37 percent in the latest YouGov poll for The Times of 3,864 British adults from May 19-21

    The also have a slight advantage on the polling forms via the use of semiotics (a large arrow pointing to their box),
    as logo/iconography go it's fairly clever.
    No doubt the funding for the logo will be well hidden. Like lots of other funding.

    It's another cheat / sharp practice from the same handbook that got Yes vs No changed to Leave or Remain on the ballot. Not a big change but I'd be surprised if it wasn't measurable. Also UKIP were bottom of the ballot while Brexit Part won't be again a small but measurable change.


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    #9341
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,174 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Mezcita wrote: »
    What, in the name of all that is holy, does this have to do with Brexit?

    Agreed. Back on topic please.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #9342
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,644 ✭✭✭54and56


    Mezcita wrote: »
    What, in the name of all that is holy, does this have to do with Brexit?

    True. Total sidetrack.

    Apologies.

    Rory Stewart for Tory leader and a sensible Withdrawal Agreement.

    (Back on track)


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    #9343
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    No doubt the funding for the logo will be well hidden. Like lots of other funding.

    Don't think it costs millions to create an arrow graphic inside a circle. Anyway The point was it's simple but clever design maybe a percentage of folks will tick it's box by subconcious accident. Not a cheat, but a simple design factor.

    As for funding and misspoken words, show any politican/group that is 100% honest and crystal clear about donations/brown envelopes.

    Wouldn't support the likes of NF, but on the otherhand can perceive how they can might pull off the biggest % in 25yrs, for the uk-ee.

    Then there is any future GE, in the last few hours have gone 5/1 to win most seats in that also. Backed at 100/1 last month as a novelty line selection, but these are strange times we live in.


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    #9344
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,619 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Sarah Full Muck wrote: »
    Don't think it costs millions to create an arrow graphic inside a circle. Anyway The point was it's simple but clever design maybe a percentage of folks will tick it's box by subconcious accident. Not a cheat, but a simple design factor.

    As for funding and misspoken words, show any politican/group that is 100% honest and crystal clear about donations/brown envelopes.

    Wouldn't support the likes of NF, but on the otherhand can perceive how they can might pull off the biggest % in 25yrs, for the uk-ee.

    Then there is any future GE, in the last few hours have gone 5/1 to win most seats in that also. Backed at 100/1 last month as a novelty line selection, but these are strange times we live in.

    What has millions got to do with it.

    It's evident that the pretend parties funding is seriously dodgey. As in extremely. It's a running theme of far right that the money is foreign and unusual.

    That it's acceptable to some is strange in itself


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    #9345
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,260 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Sarah Full Muck wrote: »
    Don't think it costs millions to create an arrow graphic inside a circle. Anyway The point was it's simple but clever design maybe a percentage of folks will tick it's box by subconcious accident. Not a cheat, but a simple design factor.
    It's not the drawing that cost millions but the consultants that end up with the proposal for the effect. Look up any government agency changing logo for example and you'll see how expensive that is.
    Then there is any future GE, in the last few hours have gone 5/1 to win most seats in that also. Backed at 100/1 last month as a novelty line selection, but these are strange times we live in.
    The problem with them trying to win a GE is that they have no platform for it atm. If we look at other similar style parties (i.e. populist) once again they usually end up around the 20% mark at best; hence I'd say it would require a miracle with UK's electorate system for them to get most seats; esp. after any form of Brexit.


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    #9346
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Yup. Remember, UKIP came first in the 2014 European Parliament elections (with 27% of the vote) but they won only one 1 seat in the 2015 General Election (which they lost in the 2017 General Election). Success in a European Parliament election in the UK is not a predictor of success in a general election.

    This is likely to be even truer for the Brexit Party; in the EP elections people may cast a protest vote in favour of a party with no manifesto, no platform, no policies, no track record, no members, no principles, no integrity and no candidates who have any experience of legislative, executive or other political office, but they won't vote in great numbers for such a party to form a government.


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    #9347
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Thargor wrote: »
    Why is Raab #2 behind Boris? He's a complete cretin

    You can't get an Oxford degree and a masters from Cambridge if you are an actual cretin.

    You can apparently come away from Oxbridge with a narrow education (law in his case) combined with utter conviction that you are smart enough to do literally anything, even impossible things like take the UK out of the EU and end up better off.

    You can see this unwarranted confidence in the way that Raab not only doesn't know what he doesn't know, he actually announces his ignorance in speeches, as if it does not matter a bit that he only just noticed that Britain is an island and France is quite nearby.


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    #9348
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,174 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    No more snippy comments/insults please. Post deleted.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #9349
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,057 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    This is likely to be even truer for the Brexit Party; in the EP elections people may cast a protest vote in favour of a party with no manifesto, no platform, no policies, no track record, no members, no principles, no integrity and no candidates who have any experience of legislative, executive or other political office, but they won't vote in great numbers for such a party to form a government.

    Is this an EU manifesto or a UK parliament manifesto which they have not released?


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    #9350
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Still waiting in for a delivery this morning of a present for the kids birthday, so have missed being able to take them along to vote before dropping them to nursery. Damned delivery drivers ruining my plans for showing the kid some democracy happening.

    I guess there will be another chance to vote in something else before the year is out though, if not multiple.


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    #9351
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,482 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    I wonder what the turnout will be. I know that historically the turnout for EU elections has been poor, 38% last time I think, but surely all those that marched in London recently, all those can have seen Brexit for the shambles it has become, need to get out and vote.

    Sure one can claim that these elections are meaningless, and the Tories certainly want nothing to do with them, but clearly Farage etc will take any vote as an indication of the desire for a hard brexit.

    I would expect that even more that voted remain will be voting for remain parties this time, with more due to the inclusion of EU citizens (well some of them it would appear)


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    #9352
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    I wonder what the turnout will be.

    Will they even be allowed to report on potential turnout numbers this evening seeing as the polls don't close until Sunday evening across the rest of Europe? Exit poll reporting is illegal in the UK until then.


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    #9353
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1131486952501469184

    The WAB is dead! Expect May to go or be pushed by the end of next week!


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    #9354
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Ian Dunt's view on May and what her successor is facing.

    This prime minister was destroyed by Brexit. And the next one will be too.


    The crux of the article is that Brexit is going to be too painful for the country and that is why it will never work.
    The truth about Brexit - the plain and simple truth of it, which no-one can make go away - is that it can only be done to a long timetable and with a lot of pain. It is fiendishly complicated. It requires the full capacity of the British political system for about five to seven years. The sacrifices it demands would probably never be accepted by parliament. And if you managed to get over all those obstacles your only accomplishment would be to make the country poorer and weaker than it was before.

    A true Brexiter, someone who was really committed to doing this, would not be lying and misleading, like May, or out on the street promoting their own pure ideological certainty, like Nigel Farage. They would be honest about the timeframe and the trade offs.

    If the border is to remain open in Ireland as it is now, we need to accept the backstop and then a very close regulatory relationship. If you want free movement to end, you are cutting off services access to the continent, which is extremely harmful for an economy like the UK's. If you give up your role in Europe, you lose the ability to shape global regulations and will eventually have to get in line with rules you had no hand in forming. These are simple facts and no amount of gibberish about 'max-fac' or 'hybrid solutions' or 'alternative aragements' had made them go away.

    He goes on to say that the new PM will promise a renegotiation but this will not be granted. This then means no-deal but he or she will get the same briefings that May received and unless they are happy to break up the UK and cripple the economy, they will back down. Which means we are back where we are now, but with a new leader.


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    #9355
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    The WAB is dead! Expect May to go or be pushed by the end of next week!


    Boris might have the standing to revoke A50, saying May&co ballsed it up, and start over.


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    #9356
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,174 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Boris might have the standing to revoke A50, saying May&co ballsed it up, and start over.

    All this would achieve is needlessly antagonising the EU who will likely simply refuse to renegotiate the deal.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #9357
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,235 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Boris is a total wild card. He will do whatever he thinks will be in his own personal self interest.

    If he gets to be PM, it will be on the back of support from the likes of Rees Mogg and the ERG, so he'll need to keep them on board because without them, he would be a sitting duck with little support from the less extremist elements of the conservative party.

    But you never know with Boris. He'll probably always have two versions of the same speech prepared and decide at the last minute which of two opposite positions to take based on how he thinks it will benefit himself personally.


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    #9358
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,482 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    No, the only way Johnson makes it to PM is because of the support you describe, and he will be entirely dependent on that support. There is no way he could even hint at revoke or 2nd ref and not expect to be removed.

    TM getting removed, particularly because it goes against the parties own rules, shows the power the ERG have and they will be emboldened by that.


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    #9359
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    All this would achieve is needlessly antagonising the EU who will likely simply refuse to renegotiate the deal.


    Yes, but they'd be safely in the EU while arguing about it.


    The best thing that could happen for all the Brexiteers is that the UK remains and they get to shout about Brexit for the rest of their careers. Any actual Brexit will be terrible, the half of the country that wants to Remain will obviously hate it, but Leave voters will too when it starts causing real chaos.


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    #9360
    Mezcita
    Registered Users Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭Mezcita


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Yes, but they'd be safely in the EU while arguing about it.


    The best thing that could happen for all the Brexiteers is that the UK remains and they get to shout about Brexit for the rest of their careers. Any actual Brexit will be terrible, the half of the country that wants to Remain will obviously hate it, but Leave voters will too when it starts causing real chaos.

    To me the problem with maintaining the status quo is that is does nothing to actually fix the problem. So I agree, the EU could agree to extension after extension in the hope that (eventually) the UK might come to their senses. But that does not fix the issue of the large trumpeting elephant in the room which is that a large number of people in the UK want out. Fair enough Brexit fans were misinformed before the last vote. They are also lied to on a regular basis by the likes of Farage and Johnson. But yet here we on a day when Farage is about to get a huge number of votes for an anti EU party.

    The UK simply has to leave at this stage. For their sake but crucially for the long term integrity of the EU. At least if Johnson gets in he might actually choose a definitive position on this. Compared to May who tried to appease everyone unsuccessfully.

    Let them bounce out, blame everyone except themselves for the repercussions and then eventually come back to the table when they realise what being an EU member actually got them. That type of scenario is the only way which politics in the UK would actually change for the better.


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    #9361
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,235 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    No, the only way Johnson makes it to PM is because of the support you describe, and he will be entirely dependent on that support. There is no way he could even hint at revoke or 2nd ref and not expect to be removed.

    TM getting removed, particularly because it goes against the parties own rules, shows the power the ERG have and they will be emboldened by that.

    Boris could just as easily flip to becoming a born again remainer if he thinks this furthers his own career.
    You don't necessarily always rely on those who got you into power to keep you there. He will play the numbers and decide on what is best for himself.


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