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View Poll Results: Do you agree with minimum alcohol pricing?
I agree because we have drinking problems in Ireland. 254 20.57%
I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government. 981 79.43%
Voters: 1235. You may not vote on this poll

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11-10-2018, 13:30   #3391
naughtb4
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Originally Posted by joe40 View Post
I don't particularly care what fine gael put into manifesto to try to get votes. Like all political parties they will promise all things to all people.

The fact remains this measure was introduced in Scotland as a "public health initiative" not a sop to publicans, so there must have been some research into whether it would be effective or not. By effective I mean have some impact, not a cure for all ills.
So lets just assume that Scotland have done the research for us?

MUP benefits Publicans and Drinks Companies more than anyone else
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11-10-2018, 13:39   #3392
Leroy42
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Originally Posted by joe40 View Post
People also keep saying this will raise the price of all drinks, as if it is a foregone conclusion. I understand the reasoning, but don't believe that will happen. Retailers will still price their product to sell.

If the likes of Heineken, bud or craft beers currently selling above MUP could command a higher price, they would be doing so already.

I just don't accept the argument their price will automatically go up in line with price increases elsewhere.
I think the clue is in the title. It is MAP. The government is setting the lowest level at which a lager (for example) can be sold. Once a floor is set, lowest price is no longer a factor.

But there is no upper price. It is why the craft beers sell for far more the lies of Dutch Gold. Simply because the consumer is willing to pay more for that they perceive to be a better product.

Now, in the short term prices probably won't rise, but after a few months the new price will be factored in by the consumer and they will return to their old habits. So they will again be prepared to pay a premium for the Craft Beer. Thus the Craft beer would be made to maintain the old price as now the 'market' price as increased.

It might take longer that a few months, I don't know, but it will happen. Just as the price inevitably moves towards €1 instead of .79p after the changeover. It is simply repositition the value of value within the market.
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11-10-2018, 14:06   #3393
joe40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrustyUCC View Post
FactCheck: Is minimum unit alcohol pricing "proven" to work?
Health Promotion Minister Marcella Corcoran Kennedy made a big claim about the effectiveness of the government’s alcohol policy, this week. We tested it.

In a debate on TV3′s Tonight With Vincent Browne on Monday, Junior Minister Marcella Corcoran Kennedy claimed that the policy has been “proven to work” in other jurisdictions, citing the example of British Columbia in Canada.

http://www.thejournal.ie/minimum-uni...32210-Aug2016/
I just read that full article (granted it was a skim reading). It is very good and to be honest has put a bit of a dent in my argument, but since this is the internet I have to persevere.

Busy now I'll get back!!
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11-10-2018, 14:08   #3394
Spanish Eyes
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Am I misssing something or what?

Surely if a premium product is in or around the same price as cheap stuff after MUP, then drinkers will buy the branded/premium stuff. Wouldn't they?

So why would so called branded/premium producers put their prices up, instead of welcoming in all those who drank cheaper stuff before MUP. Win win.

I hasten to add that I am not in favour of the Nanny State of which MUP is but one aspect at all, and it is creeping in to all aspects of our lives. But that's another topic, although associated with this one.
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11-10-2018, 14:40   #3395
naughtb4
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A bit I am missing on this, is the minimum pricing on what the drinks company can sell to the supermarkets at, or what the supermarkets can sell for?
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11-10-2018, 14:44   #3396
KrustyUCC
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What the supermarkets/off licences can sell for
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11-10-2018, 15:57   #3397
KrustyUCC
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Alcohol Bill passes through all stages of Oireachtas

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/...as-874984.html

Once Michael D signs the bill I wonder when prices will go up?
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11-10-2018, 16:16   #3398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrustyUCC View Post
Alcohol Bill passes through all stages of Oireachtas

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/...as-874984.html

Once Michael D signs the bill I wonder when prices will go up?

I think its still going to be held until NI brings in similar to avoid cross border shenanigans, also theres bound to be EU appeals as this can be argued to breach competition laws

Last edited by VinLieger; 11-10-2018 at 16:22.
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11-10-2018, 16:48   #3399
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The govt looks to be in pretty shaky grounds right now, what with Naughten and Fitzpatrick gone.

Imagine them knocking on doors for an election hot on the heels of this blatant sop.
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11-10-2018, 17:00   #3400
DEFTLEFTHAND
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The govt looks to be in pretty shaky grounds right now, what with Naughten and Fitzpatrick gone.

Imagine them knocking on doors for an election hot on the heels of this blatant sop.
This Bill alone could put them out.


You don't fck with an Irishman and his drink.
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11-10-2018, 17:19   #3401
KrustyUCC
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Only issue is who do you vote for that hasn't had a part in passing this bill?
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11-10-2018, 17:43   #3402
Checkmate19
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Well for one you don't vote for fine gael as it was their idea. Brought in the back of a health bill but really to as they said in their manifesto support pubs.
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11-10-2018, 18:09   #3403
Hotblack Desiato
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Originally Posted by Spanish Eyes View Post
So why would so called branded/premium producers put their prices up, instead of welcoming in all those who drank cheaper stuff before MUP.
Same reason Heneken Ireland wouldn't supply Wetherspoons with Heineken, but were happy to supply them with Amstel

They didn't want their "premium" brand being cheapened by being sold at a non-premium price. Simple as that. The big brewers have their low, mid and high priced brands and many of them have craft brands above that. If the price level of your lowest priced brand rises, you have to maintain the price differential to the next brand up, to persuade the drinker that if X is dearer than Y then X must be better. It's basic marketing.

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11-10-2018, 18:23   #3404
Johnny Dogs
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Same reason Heneken Ireland wouldn't supply Wetherspoons with Heineken, but were happy to supply them with Amstel

They didn't want their "premium" brand being cheapened by being sold at a non-premium price. Simple as that. The big brewers have their low, mid and high priced brands and many of them have craft brands above that. If the price level of your lowest priced brand rises, you have to maintain the price differential to the next brand up, to persuade the drinker that if X is dearer than Y then X must be better. It's basic marketing.

In a nutshell.

The lads thinking they'll be unaffected by this sop because they sup malbec with their Foie gras are only codding themselves and no one else.
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11-10-2018, 19:55   #3405
andekwarhola
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All the predictions about craft (and other drink types perceived to be premium) rising in tandem is a bit of a surmise that has yet to be tested.

As pointed out already, craft beer drinkers, for example, already pay quite a relative premium for off sales already.

There's no guarantee at all that producers or retailers will up the price even more and risk sales volume, especially for a nascent market.

It's also a bit silly to say craft beer drinkers will want to distinguish what they buy from cheap stuff by paying a higher premium.

I'm a craft beer drinker, and already pay above odds. I don't give a titty wank how higher it's priced than Galahad lager. If craft beer was cheaper than Polish lager I'd be delighted. I don't buy the beer I do because of how its perceived, only because I like it. Ditto I don't drink cheap lager because I don't like it, not because its seen as cheap.

Last edited by andekwarhola; 11-10-2018 at 20:05.
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