Should nuts in school be banned for the small % who have "nut allergies"

byhookorbycrook · 09-10-2019 7:11pm

Hobosan wrote: »

Banning nuts increases allergies due to lack of exposure.

Now, read through this thread again and look at all the "gobdaws" on their high horses, making the problem worse while thinking themselves ultra considerate and clever.

Science deniers come in all stripes.

Seriously?So the non-allergic children should inoculate the others by killing them?
I presume you are anti vax as well, then?

SusieBlue · 09-10-2019 7:13pm

boombang wrote: »

Really?

Yep, link here so you can read for yourself. I followed the case when it first broke & actually felt really sorry for both children involved.
Even though what he did was really stupid and nasty he never meant to kill the other child.

Sometimes, kids are just idiots and don’t think of the consequences.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/boy-death-allergic-reaction-cheese-dairy-school-karanbir-cheema-a8895006.html?amp

Edit: saw you found the link yourself!

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 09-10-2019 7:13pm

the_syco wrote: »

What about people who are deadly allergic to bee stings? Should the schools not have flowers?

Anything that can be controlled probably should be. Not all variables can be dealt with but that doesn’t mean all should then be ignored. I’m amazed this has to be said.

LirW · 09-10-2019 7:14pm

I was on a flight recently where the attendants constantly told us there's a passenger with a nut allergy on board, so please don't consume stuff with nuts and we won't sell it either.
Somehow we all survived.

Also my kid's school is nut free because 2 kids are allergic. It really isn't a big deal, there are so many things to pack in a lunchbox instead.

boombang · 09-10-2019 7:15pm

SusieBlue wrote: »

Yep, link here so you can read for yourself. I followed the case when it first broke & actually felt really sorry for both children involved.
Even though what he did was really stupid and nasty he never meant to kill the other child.

Sometimes, kids are just idiots and don’t think of the consequences.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/boy-death-allergic-reaction-cheese-dairy-school-karanbir-cheema-a8895006.html?amp

Crazy case. Poor lad.

Report here says his Epi-Pen was a year out of date. In fairness, that would seem pretty outlandish to expect a death.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/02/boy-with-allergy-died-cheese-flicked-at-him-london-inquest-told

suicide_circus · 09-10-2019 7:15pm

by removing nuts from public spaces we will increase the number of kids with nut allergies.

lawred2 · 09-10-2019 7:16pm

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

What is the general consensus on this. IMO, I find it bizarre that the rest of the school population has to accommodate an extremely small % of kids who have an alleged nut allergy. One of the few things we can give kids that are healthy and they enjoy are being banned.

Do the schools ask for a confirmation from their doctor before they ask the rest of school population what to not feed their children? I have my suspicions that alot of these allergies are self diagnosed or the parents have been to some quack that did an online course.

What do these parents do when their kids are outside of school or go to summer camp, for a walk. Will the whole world bend to their needs?

Ffs

eviltwin · 09-10-2019 7:16pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

by removing nuts from public spaces we will increase the number of kids with nut allergies.

How?

Peatys · 09-10-2019 7:17pm

I don't know why i thought this thread was in parenting.

Fecking after hours? Yeah, kill all the kids then we can all eat/suck eachothers nuts.

That's the level of answer this place deserves

Dravokivich · 09-10-2019 7:22pm

Peatys wrote: »

I don't know why i thought this thread was in parenting.

Fecking after hours? Yeah, kill all the kids then we can all eat/suck eachothers nuts.

That's the level of answer this place deserves

I wouldn't take it :pac:

Ave Sodalis · 09-10-2019 7:23pm

eviltwin wrote: »

How?

I'm going to assume the answer isn't "well, if we leave them in, the kids with nut allergies are more likely to die and so it would decrease the number of kids with nut allergies. Ergo, by removing them from public areas, we increase the number of kids with nut allergies as they're more likely to survive to child bearing age and pass on the probably genetic allergen."

It's more likely some convoluted idea that exposure decreases the risk, which completely ignores the fact that these kids already have the allergy...

Hobosan · 09-10-2019 7:27pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Seriously?So the non-allergic children should inoculate the others by killing them?
I presume you are anti vax as well, then?

You presume I'm anti vax because I'm highlighting the strength of the immune system?

You should really presume I'm pro vaccine given that information.

1hnr79jr65 · 09-10-2019 7:28pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

You lost me at "I don't have any children." Educated?Wiser?I'm a primary teacher with over 30 years of experience. We have had a nut ban for about 15 years and never any issue with any child being threatened in such a fashion. Children who may otherwise be unkind or even bully others are very protective of the children with SEN/physical disabilities and allergies.

At a rough count. I've taught in 10 different schools. I'm in contact with hundreds of primary teachers per week. So, you know what, I'm going to claim more wisdom and education in this area?

I've witnessed junior infants tell sub teachers that X can't eat nuts/needs to go to the bathroom more often than others/needs an inhaler sometimes at PE (Sub teacher is always informed of any children with additional needs, but the children look out for them anyhow.)

My lack of children and lack of being an educator does not invalidate the points i have made. Your experience is just that, your experience, other people have different experiences, it does not make you more educated or wiser.

My 10 yo nephew has CF, actively tells his teachers about needing certain medications when eating and can't be in contact with other CF kids. I am agreed with alot of smart kids that can communicate these things, however based on ranges across different age groups and schools there is the possibility something could happen.

Cienciano · 09-10-2019 7:30pm

Do people love nuts so much that they can't go to school without them?

TheBoyConor · 09-10-2019 7:30pm

When did all this nut/dairy/egg/whatever else allergy and bans and things come in?

When I was in school there was none of this allergy craic, not that I ever saw or heard of anyway. Every second child these days seems to have some sort of obscure allergy.

iamwhoiam · 09-10-2019 7:31pm

Do people not understand this . No one has died from not having nuts for lunch but kids have died because they are in close proximity to nuts
Is that not very simple for people to get ?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 09-10-2019 7:32pm

road_high wrote: »

How we survived primary school from the late 80s to mid 90s without any of this namby pamby nanny state stuff is still a mystery to me. Allergies etc seemed to be almost unheard of

Do you think severe allergies don’t exist? To the sufferer, it doesn’t matter how rare they are. They are a sufferer and that’s all there is to it.

I honestly envy people who have so little to worry about that something like a school nut ban is a great affront to them. I mean, seriously. :eek:

Hobosan wrote: »

Banning nuts increases allergies due to lack of exposure.

Now, read through this thread again and look at all the "gobdaws" on their high horses, making the problem worse while thinking themselves ultra considerate and clever.

Science deniers come in all stripes.

Children can eat them at home.

iamwhoiam · 09-10-2019 7:34pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

When did all this nut/dairy/egg/whatever else allergy and bans and things come in?

When I was in school there was none of this allergy craic, not that I ever saw or heard of anyway. Every second child these days seems to have some sort of obscure allergy.

I did . In A and E way back . I have seen kids die from allergies , seen parents destroyed with grief . It existed all right it was just not diagnosed as much
Thankfully people are now aware of minor symptoms and carry epipens to avoid a disaster

TheBoyConor · 09-10-2019 7:34pm

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

My 10 yo nephew has CF, actively tells his teachers about needing certain medications when eating and can't be in contact with other CF kids.

Why is that? Is it because they have lots of infections that could spread?

Princess Calla · 09-10-2019 7:36pm

Hobosan wrote: »

You presume I'm anti vax because I'm highlighting the strength of the immune system?

You should really presume I'm pro vaccine given that information.

I've a child with an allergy, not nuts. We found out by accident, or rather the crèche did

The allergy is deemed not severe but we still have to carry epipens everywhere we go.

We were recommended to introduce foods in a controlled way, I presume to increase the immune system. But it was a controlled way while we had an epipen in our hands. Both of us were there if things went sideways.

A school with 20-30 students in a class is not a controlled environment.

09-10-2019 7:37pm

Hobosan wrote: »

Banning nuts increases allergies due to lack of exposure.

Now, read through this thread again and look at all the "gobdaws" on their high horses, making the problem worse while thinking themselves ultra considerate and clever.

Science deniers come in all stripes.

I believe your referring to the science which shows that exposing your baby to common allergens such as peanuts, at 6 months of age, reduces the risk of them developing an allergy.

Six months!

Exposing a school aged child to common allergens such as peanuts will not reduce their risk of having an allergy, as at that age the allergy will already be in existence so your only increasing the risk of illness or death.

Maybe you need to read up on anaphylaxis. Speaking from experience, it is terrifying to have a family member with such an allergy. The smell alone can lead to death for some and as shown by Susie above, the mere touch can also be fatal. Even administering an epi-pen is not always effective. Its a scary way to live your life, particularly for a child and their parents.

1hnr79jr65 · 09-10-2019 7:37pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Why is that? Is it because they have lots of infections that could spread?

There are a range of ailments that folks with CF have, its a big list and different folks can have different afflictions, as such carrying different risks, therefor mixing is best avoided. When my nephew went to crumlin to get a port under his arm when he was 7, the ward have 5 isolation rooms, for all kids with cf, only one could be out of a room at a time when doing stuff in that area.

This can be everything from weight gain issues, eye problems to lack of development of sexual organs. A range of folks with cf are infertile as things like the vas deferns dont develop where fellas concerned.

Plumbthedepths · 09-10-2019 7:37pm

harr wrote: »

Not 100% sure but I know the school had to send legal correspondence as this was the 3rd it 4th time said parents had sent child to school with nut products it seems they were giving the child the stuff to bring in .

There is no legal basis for what you claimed sorry. P*ss poor behaviour on the parents behalf though.

ted1 · 09-10-2019 7:41pm

harr wrote: »

I to have seen the affects of a selfish parent thinking the ban on nut products didn’t Apply To them. The child in question went to deaths door in a matter of minutes and this was only from minimal contact with someone who had been eating nuts. The teacher had an epi pen as did the child in her school bag. A very scary thing to see a child not being able to breathe.
The other parent it turns out had been told a number of times and criminal proceedings were threatened in the end, this was after the school sent all parents a letter from crumlin hospital stating the severity of this child condition.

Criminal proceedings being threatened means diddely squat. The op asked should a doctor note be produced, it’s a legitimate excuse. Loads of self diagnoses coeliacs out there , doing more damage to themselves.

super_furry · 09-10-2019 7:43pm

I mean the thing to take comfort in here is that the awkward contrarians banging on about their human rights to eat nuts wherever they want, are unlikely to ever have kids so it's not really going to be an issue.

ted1 · 09-10-2019 7:43pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Do people not understand this . No one has died from not having nuts for lunch but kids have died because they are in close proximity to nuts
Is that not very simple for people to get ?

More people dies cussing the road this week than dies from nut allergies in the past 5 years. Should we ban crossing the road ?

looksee · 09-10-2019 7:44pm

Current thinking seems to be that some allergies could be avoided by introducing trace amounts of doubtful food at an early stage. Some allergies/asthma are thought to be the result of excessive cleaning - for example using those anti-microbial cleaning cloths the whole time. Some food has changed in its nature - wheat for example.

These examples do not cover all the possibilities. I have a granddaughter who is severely allergic to milk and even remotely associated products. There is some evidence of milk intolerance in the rest of the family - me, my son, his daughter, another of my daughters, my sister. In all other cases it is only an intolerance but in her case she has an allergic (though not potentially fatal) reaction. There is also a wheat intolerance in the same group.

It isn't entirely understood why these allergies manifest themselves but it is not true to say that they were not known before. One diagnosis for early death used be 'failure to thrive' which could easily have been due to say coeliac disease, or a food intolerance or allergy. All kinds of allergies or sensitivities could have resulted in the 'village idiot' character, along with the effects of disease in pregnancy or birth that were not recognised at the time.

I know someone else who has a serious reaction to chemicals - and the worst offenders are the overloads of perfume, body spray or after shave that people douse themselves with. If she is in a restaurant and someone strongly scented comes to a nearby table she simply has to leave. Friends are aware of the situation but beyond that it is impossible to deal with - even in prearranged situations people get surprisingly offended if requested to not wear perfume at an event. She is far from exceptional in this, but it is a situation that gets very little understanding.

CJhaughey · 09-10-2019 7:44pm

I have a son with a peanut allergy, not all nuts but specifically peanuts which are actually a legume.
Its no joke, the two times he had a reaction were when he was only 2, I had made a peanut butter sandwich and left the knife on the cutting board and when my missus prepared some food she must have touched it, His entire face swelled up and became blotchy, fortunately it subsided after a while but obviously we were freaked out by this and ended up having to get private allergy testing in London because the waiting time here was I think a year at that point.
When he was diagnosed it was a massive relief as up to then we had to be so careful with what we fed him due to our lack of knowledge of what triggered the attack.
Allergies are no joke and to risk someones life due to an inability to understand the seriousness of the allergy is stupid and selfish in the extreme.
Look up Amy May Shead and see what can happen to an allergy sufferer who has a reaction.
Would you be so quick to risk this happening to someone else, because you have no understanding of Anaphylaxis?

Hego Damask · 09-10-2019 7:45pm

in creches and primary school yes, but in secondery and even primary from around age 10 - no.
Where are all these nut alergies coming from ?

They weren't around before

iamwhoiam · 09-10-2019 7:46pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I believe your referring to the science which shows that exposing your baby to common allergens such as peanuts, at 6 months of age, reduces the risk of them developing an allergy.

Six months!

Exposing a school aged child to common allergens such as peanuts will not reduce their risk of having an allergy, as at that age the allergy will already be in existence so your only increasing the risk of illness or death.

Maybe you need to read up on anaphylaxis. Speaking from experience, it is terrifying to have a family member with such an allergy. The smell alone can lead to death for some and as shown by Susie above, the mere touch can also be fatal. Even administering an epi-pen is not always effective. Its a scary way to live your life, particularly for a child and their parents.

I had an anaphylaxis and am only alive because I live 10 minutes from a major hospital . It is terrifying , stressfull and very traumatising . I wouldn’t wish it on any child

TheBoyConor · 09-10-2019 7:46pm

My god. All that is frightening reading. I can reassure myself that I'm choosing the right path by not having children. Between fatal allergies from the smell or touch of something to the devastating consequences of genetic faults or special needs, I really wouldn't want to be bringing that into my life. I'd not be able to deal with it and it wouldn't be fair on the hypothetical child either. Fair play to all those that can manage it.

v638sg7k1a92bx · 09-10-2019 7:47pm

rizzodun wrote: »

Imagine being so far up your own hole to think that your preference for nuts is above someone who could have a fatal attack due to being allergic...

Imagine a child having such a serious condition that as a parent you send them into a potentially lethal environment everyday and expect everyone to walk on egg shells and threaten legal proceedings if they don’t comply with your demands.

Curious how this was not an issue until recent years.

ted1 · 09-10-2019 7:47pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

I have a son with a peanut allergy, not all nuts but specifically peanuts which are actually a legume.
Its no joke, the two times he had a reaction were when he was only 2, I had made a peanut butter sandwich and left the knife on the cutting board and when my missus prepared some food she must have touched it, His entire face swelled up and became blotchy, fortunately it subsided after a while but obviously we were freaked out by this and ended up having to get private allergy testing in London because the waiting time here was I think a year at that point.
When he was diagnosed it was a massive relief as up to then we had to be so careful with what we fed him due to our lack of knowledge of what triggered the attack.
Allergies are no joke and to risk someones life due to an inability to understand the seriousness of the allergy is stupid and selfish in the extreme.
Look up Amy May Shead and see what can happen to an allergy sufferer who has a reaction.
Would you be so quick to risk this happening to someone else, because you have no understanding of Anaphylaxis?

Have you tested him recently, some of my family have allergies and I’ve had to use the Epi pen. Anyway some of them have grown out of it.

iamwhoiam · 09-10-2019 7:49pm

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

Imagine a child having such a serious condition that as a parent you send them into a potentially lethal environment everyday and expect everyone to walk on egg shells and threaten legal proceedings if they don’t comply with your demands.

Curious how this was not an issue until recent years.

Grow up

CJhaughey · 09-10-2019 7:50pm

Alexandria Quick Doughnut wrote: »

Imagine a child having such a serious condition that as a parent you send them into a potentially lethal environment everyday and expect everyone to walk on egg shells and threaten legal proceedings if they don’t comply with your demands.

Curious how this was not an issue until recent years.

Its not walking on eggshells, its simply asking parents to restrict nuts to their own home.

As stated allergies worldwide are on the rise, Who knows why?

I have no nut allergies my wife the same and my daughter likewise, why my son has it is a mystery to all of us.
Regardless the point is we don't have peanuts in the house because of the potentially lethal consequences.
I love peanuts but have restricted my intake to other nuts because of the issue, its no big deal for me but it is for my son.

Hego Damask · 09-10-2019 7:51pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Grow up

He's right though!

And Jonathan Haidt is right too ...

https://youtu.be/-iQmoe7Wygw

All these alergies are from parents mollycoddling their kids.
It's their fault they have the allergies, they should make sure the kids aren't exposed - not the school

CJhaughey · 09-10-2019 7:52pm

ted1 wrote: »

Have you tested him recently, some of my family have allergies and I’ve had to use the Epi pen. Anyway some of them have grown out of it.

He was part of a study group here which tracked kids from babies to young adults and is lead by one of the leading peanut allergy specialists in the world.
He had a big reaction in the last challenge test and was told that he couldn't continue with the tests.
He has to carry Epipens constantly, its a real pain but very necessary.

Irish Guitarist · 09-10-2019 7:54pm

What percentage of children have nut allergies? Is there guaranteed to be at least one child with a nut allergy in every school?

And if nut allergies are on the rise would that be due to emigration from countries where eating nuts is less common?

https://news.sky.com/story/boys-death-from-allergic-reaction-after-cheese-hit-neck-unprecedented-11710285#

Karanbir was also more likely to have had a severe reaction because he was male, of Asian origin, a teenager and suffered from hayfever.

That's referring to cheese but the question still stands.

CJhaughey · 09-10-2019 7:56pm

Hego Damask wrote: »

He's right though!

And Jonathan Haidt is right too ...

https://youtu.be/-iQmoe7Wygw

All these alergies are from parents mollycoddling their kids.
It's their fault they have the allergies, they should make sure the kids aren't exposed - not the school

We never mollycoddled him, lived rurally with animals and in a normal non-sterile environment, why has he a Peanut allergy and not his sister?
I am sure at some point there will be more light thrown on this subject but as for now we just have to be very careful.

CJhaughey · 09-10-2019 7:58pm

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

What percentage of children have nut allergies? Is there guaranteed to be at least one child with a nut allergy in every school?

And if nut allergies are on the rise would that be due to emigration from countries where eating nuts is less common?

https://news.sky.com/story/boys-death-from-allergic-reaction-after-cheese-hit-neck-unprecedented-11710285#

That's referring to cheese but the question still stands.

Most of Asia eat plenty of peanuts much more so than here in fact as they are grown there.
Why people here develop allergies to them here is not clear.
Little to do with emigration I would think.

Princess Calla · 09-10-2019 7:59pm

Hego Damask wrote: »

He's right though!

And Jonathan Haidt is right too ...

https://youtu.be/-iQmoe7Wygw

All these alergies are from parents mollycoddling their kids.
It's their fault they have the allergies, they should make sure the kids aren't exposed - not the school

How is it my fault my child has an allergy? Or any parents fault?

Seeing your childs face turning red and getting bloated is not on any parents wish list.

So please do enlighten me on what I did wrong.

I've no problem being used as a cautionary tale!

CJhaughey · 09-10-2019 8:00pm

Sobering reading.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-47488187

Gatling · 09-10-2019 8:00pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

Its not walking on eggshells, its simply asking parents to restrict nuts to their own home.

But apparently that's still dangerous as oils from nuts can stay on hands for a good while or a child could handle Nutella on the way to school ,

You cannot eliminate the possibility of an accidental exposure to nuts

looksee · 09-10-2019 8:02pm

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

What percentage of children have nut allergies? Is there guaranteed to be at least one child with a nut allergy in every school?

And if nut allergies are on the rise would that be due to emigration from countries where eating nuts is less common?

https://news.sky.com/story/boys-death-from-allergic-reaction-after-cheese-hit-neck-unprecedented-11710285#

That's referring to cheese but the question still stands.[/QUOTE]

He was allergic to dairy products, cheese in this case. It is a well recognised fact that people of asian origin are less tolerant of lactose (milk to put it simply) than europeans.

CJhaughey · 09-10-2019 8:04pm

Gatling wrote: »

But apparently that's still dangerous as oils from nuts can stay on hands for a good while or a child could handle Nutella on the way to school ,

You cannot eliminate the possibility of an accidental exposure to nuts

Sure and that's understandable people aren't asking for schools to be cleanrooms, they are just asking for parents not to send their kids to school with nuts.
It greatly reduces the risk,not eliminates it.
That's all that is being asked of parents in schools with nut free policies.

CJhaughey · 09-10-2019 8:07pm

I remember reading about an Australian woman who was adamant that peanut allergies were just a fad and that it was ridiculous to ban peanuts from schools.
Her first son had no allergies, her second had a peanut allergy and her outlook totally changed when she was confronted with the enormity of the issue.

Cookie_Monster · 09-10-2019 8:09pm

Markcheese wrote: »

Why wouldn't you?
A nut allergy can be a very serious thing, and kids can do stupid stuff...

yeah sure lets ban nuts but not the unvaccinated. The logic here is actually nuts :pac:

TheBoyConor · 09-10-2019 8:11pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

Its not walking on eggshells, its simply asking parents to restrict nuts to their own home.

As stated allergies worldwide are on the rise, Who knows why?

I have no nut allergies my wife the same and my daughter likewise, why my son has it is a mystery to all of us.
Regardless the point is we don't have peanuts in the house because of the potentially lethal consequences.
I love peanuts but have restricted my intake to other nuts because of the issue, its no big deal for me but it is for my son.

So could you not eat peanuts at all then ever?

I read here that even the smell of a peanut can be fatal in severe cases? Is that true? Seems rather extreme that the smell of something could kill.

If you ate a peanut today and then, say tomorrow you touched your child's hand, could they die from the touch? like I mean even if you washed you hands thoroughly, could some allergen from the peanut go through your system and end up being in your sweat or skin oils and be transferred and be lethal to your son?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 09-10-2019 8:12pm

Gatling wrote: »

But apparently that's still dangerous as oils from nuts can stay on hands for a good while or a child could handle Nutella on the way to school ,

You cannot eliminate the possibility of an accidental exposure to nuts

But you can take steps to minimise exposure as much as possible.

ted1 · 09-10-2019 8:12pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

He has to carry Epipens constantly, its a real pain but very necessary.

The short shelf life of the pens is a massive pain.

Should nuts in school be banned for the small % who have "nut allergies"

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