End of #metoo

B0jangles · 06-12-2018 5:06pm

professore wrote: »

Many supposed scientific surveys in social sciences are based on inventing a viewpoint and then manufacturing evidence to support it.

I never claimed to have stats on what I was saying. As I said there have been no surveys about women's actual behaviour in the workplace - anything I can find online all start out from the standpoint of how they are horribly oppressed and how to foster a better working environment for them.

A study on actual behaviour patterns without a preconceived agenda - i.e. an ACTUAL scientific study - would be very interesting.

A lot of the stuff is utter rubbish, for example : https://www.redventures.com/blog/2015/11/18/5-major-differences-between-men-and-women-at-work/

This is just utter sh1te. Women and men are individuals, and I would never associate giving everyone a fair voice as a female characteristic. In my experience women are just as likely as men to step over each other for promotion.

Getting to your links, the first source refers to rape stats. Rape is not sexual harassment.

From your second source it seems sexual harassment is, while not quite as big a problem, is a significant problem for male students as it is for females.

You literally invented all your 'evidence' and you're nitpicking the standard of mine?

edit: and guess what - male students experiencing sexual harassment is bad too! I think they should 100% be able to speak out about it - I support the right of all victims of sexual harassment to speak out about their experiences.

Your attitude seems to be that women should shut up and stop complaining because the same thing probably happens to men sometimes too - I believe that no-one should have to keep quiet about being harassed just because their speaking out makes some people really uncomfortable.

Zorya · 06-12-2018 5:31pm

meeeeh wrote: »

Ah stop with the nonsense.

That like saying UNICEF shouldn't be a charity for all children because kids who are just growing up in poverty are suffering less than those that are also living in wartorn countries.

Ahhhh stop with the nonsense.

leggo · 06-12-2018 5:39pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Just because you have an objective doesn't mean you are objective.

What objective could I have on boards beyond "killing time when I should be doing something else"? Or are you high and that's just a thing that sounded good in your head?

Zorya · 06-12-2018 5:41pm

leggo wrote: »

What objective could I have on boards beyond "killing time when I should be doing something else"? Or are you high and that's just a thing that sounded good in your head?

Woah, Bro. Play the ball.

leggo · 06-12-2018 5:43pm

Being high isn't an insult.

Zorya · 06-12-2018 5:46pm

leggo wrote: »

Being high isn't an insult.

:pac: The word games! You used it in a context ie it was contextual ie it was depending on the preceding or following parts of a text to clarify meaning. Or are you high?

DEFTLEFTHAND · 06-12-2018 5:49pm

leggo wrote: »

Being high isn't an insult.

Of course it is.

It implies that the poster is under the influence of a mind altering substance which is affecting their ability to debate.

leggo · 06-12-2018 5:54pm

First question: do you guys talk like this amongst your friends? Defining basic words and concepts in a patronising tone to try score points on a point you disagree on? Taking throwaway comments and trying to scandalise them to dunk on people?

Follow-up question: have you ever noticed that less and less people want to talk to you after you’ve spoken to them like this? Curious.

py2006 · 06-12-2018 5:57pm

leggo wrote: »

First question: do you guys talk like this amongst your friends? Defining basic words and concepts in a patronising tone to try score points on a point you disagree on? Taking throwaway comments and trying to scandalise them to dunk on people?

Follow-up question: have you ever noticed that less and less people want to talk to you after you’ve spoken to them like this? Curious.

Do you have ANY male friends?

leggo · 06-12-2018 6:08pm

py2006 wrote: »

Do you have ANY male friends?

:pac::pac::pac:

LOVE how revealing this thread is! It's great craic! So you, py2006, see a guy who's entire point is, "Just ask for consent, it's really easy not to sexually harass someone", this bothers you for whatever reason and you think, "Oooh I'm gonna get that guy good!"

You try figure stuff out about me to 'get me where it hurts' and you say, "Hmm...what'll get him? Lads I know would hate a lad talking about consent, he must not have any male friends!" and hit me with the verbal KO blow.

Except, in the real world, asking for consent doesn't lose you any friends. At least not in my world or I imagine many of those reading. That's just your perception of reality based around your own circle. So your assumption actually implies that you and your mates are pretty creepy dudes who'd shun someone for not being how you see 'one of the lads'. Tough look for you dude.

dont bother · 06-12-2018 6:11pm

i think #metoo is a load of sh!te personally.

what a load of utter nonsense.

people just like being loud and giving opinions and it's ripe for that.

that's all.

professore · 06-12-2018 6:16pm

leggo wrote: »

First question: do you guys talk like this amongst your friends? Defining basic words and concepts in a patronising tone to try score points on a point you disagree on? Taking throwaway comments and trying to scandalise them to dunk on people?

Follow-up question: have you ever noticed that less and less people want to talk to you after you’ve spoken to them like this? Curious.

I certainly don't accuse my friends - male and female - .... yes I actually have lots of female friends .... of being high if I'm debating a serious issue with them. I focus on the point being discussed as do they. People that don't generally aren't my friends.

leggo · 06-12-2018 6:19pm

professore wrote: »

I certainly don't accuse my friends - male and female - .... yes I actually have lots of female friends .... of being high if I'm debating a serious issue with them. I focus on the point being discussed as do they. People that don't generally aren't my friends.

You sound like the best craic. Everyone loves a lad down the pub who sticks to the point.

professore · 06-12-2018 6:19pm

leggo wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac:

LOVE how revealing this thread is! It's great craic! So you, py2006, see a guy who's entire point is, "Just ask for consent, it's really easy not to sexually harass someone", this bothers you for whatever reason and you think, "Oooh I'm gonna get that guy good!"

You can't ask for consent if you don't realise it's sexual harassment, or perceived as such. Telling an off colour joke or being helpful to a woman can be interpreted as creepy and sexual harassment behaviour in 2018. At least in the US. Haven't seen it here yet thankfully.

In a world that bans "Baby It's Cold Outside" and seriously is discussing censoring "Fairytale of New York" anything can be considered sexual harassment quite frankly.

Grayson · 06-12-2018 6:26pm

dont bother wrote: »

i think #metoo is a load of sh!te personally.

what a load of utter nonsense.

people just like being loud and giving opinions and it's ripe for that.

that's all.

They're not opinions. They're experiences.

Grayson · 06-12-2018 6:42pm

professore wrote: »

You can't ask for consent if you don't realise it's sexual harassment, or perceived as such. Telling an off colour joke or being helpful to a woman can be interpreted as creepy and sexual harassment behaviour in 2018. At least in the US. Haven't seen it here yet thankfully.

In a world that bans "Baby It's Cold Outside" and seriously is discussing censoring "Fairytale of New York" anything can be considered sexual harassment quite frankly.

It's not about offering help. If you offer help politely, that's fine. No-one is going to accuse you of being anything except polite.

And rather than think of people trying to invent ways to be offended, we should focus on the very wrong things that are happening.

I posted a link a few pages back
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/06/men-underestimate-level-of-sexual-harassment-against-women-survey

It shows how people underestimate how much sexual harassment occurs. And the me too movement is good. It throws a light on this.

I mentioned it before but how exactly are people to bring to light how common this is without speaking about it? Should the women who are sharing their experiences not have done so? I think it's been a good thing. I think this is something we should be talking about.

Reviews and Books Galore · 06-12-2018 6:45pm

leggo wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac:

LOVE how revealing this thread is! It's great craic! So you, py2006, see a guy who's entire point is, "Just ask for consent, it's really easy not to sexually harass someone", this bothers you for whatever reason and you think, "Oooh I'm gonna get that guy good!"
.

So, the answer is no? Nothing to be ashamed of as neither do I.

Leggo, you've called people who disagree with you as creepy again and s high, and you may have implied that the people who disagreed with you as not being able to take no for an answer.

Not everybody's your enemy for goodness gracious.

Nerdlingr · 06-12-2018 7:20pm

Grayson wrote: »

It's not about offering help. If you offer help politely, that's fine. No-one is going to accuse you of being anything except polite.

And rather than think of people trying to invent ways to be offended, we should focus on the very wrong things that are happening.

I posted a link a few pages back
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/06/men-underestimate-level-of-sexual-harassment-against-women-survey

It shows how people underestimate how much sexual harassment occurs. And the me too movement is good. It throws a light on this.

I mentioned it before but how exactly are people to bring to light how common this is without speaking about it? Should the women who are sharing their experiences not have done so? I think it's been a good thing. I think this is something we should be talking about.

Just a little comment on the link you posted. I saw the headline earlier and read the piece. Its just another clickbait article. The survey showed not only do men underestimate harassment... but so do women!
Yet the headline only has one of the sexes tagged.
The Guardian has descended into a far left/metoo/feminist/racial opinion piece cesspit. More and more they've introduced one of those tropes into nearly every article they produce. Its very very tiring.

The Rape of Lucretia · 06-12-2018 7:34pm

Grayson wrote: »

I posted a link a few pages back
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/06/men-underestimate-level-of-sexual-harassment-against-women-survey

It shows how people underestimate how much sexual harassment occurs. And the me too movement is good. It throws a light on this.

That data looks so out of whack, what it really shows is that people are answering different understanding of the same question.

Seriously, does anyone really believe that Denmark, Sweden, US, and France have actual sexual harassment rates double and triple those of Poland, Hungary, Spain, and Romania?

As the countries are answering different questions, then men and women, in each country are answering different questions. Women in one country are answering a different question to women in another country. Men in one country are answering a different question to women in the same country, and to women in other countries.

givyjoe · 06-12-2018 7:37pm

leggo wrote: »

You sound like the best craic. Everyone loves a lad down the pub who sticks to the point.

Are you high?

leggo · 06-12-2018 7:49pm

givyjoe wrote: »

Are you high?

You better lawyer up because apparently that’s now the worst thing you can say to someone.

leggo · 06-12-2018 7:54pm

professore wrote: »

You can't ask for consent if you don't realise it's sexual harassment, or perceived as such. Telling an off colour joke or being helpful to a woman can be interpreted as creepy and sexual harassment behaviour in 2018. At least in the US. Haven't seen it here yet thankfully.

In a world that bans "Baby It's Cold Outside" and seriously is discussing censoring "Fairytale of New York" anything can be considered sexual harassment quite frankly.

It’s really NOT difficult. Like a lot of people get by just fine every day being self-aware and appropriate, if people struggle with that then it shouldn’t be up to the rest of the world to just deal with their struggles.

givyjoe · 06-12-2018 7:58pm

leggo wrote: »

You better lawyer up because apparently that’s now the worst thing you can say to someone.

For someone who claims to be well versed in consent, you do seem to have a knack for misreading a situation.

leggo · 06-12-2018 8:15pm

givyjoe wrote: »

For someone who claims to be well versed in consent, you do seem to have a knack for misreading a situation.

Your banter is awful and you’re behaving like a child, can you stop talking to me now? We’re not going to be friends.

backspin. · 06-12-2018 8:19pm

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Like it or not a pinch on the bum or a hand on your arm is not the same as rape or serious sexual assault and to try and pretend it is is an insult to real victims.

I can't believe this is even debated.

I'm sure an actual rape victim would swap their experience for a nip on the bum without question. It's grotesque to even compare them.

givyjoe · 06-12-2018 8:39pm

leggo wrote: »

Your banter is awful and you’re behaving like a child, can you stop talking to me now? We’re not going to be friends.

Banter?! Case in point.

leggo · 06-12-2018 8:59pm

Anyway back to #MeToo I totally get why people find it annoying when they tell others to leave them alone and they don’t.

The Rape of Lucretia · 06-12-2018 9:08pm

leggo wrote: »

Anyway back to #MeToo I totally get why people find it annoying when they tell others to leave them alone and they don’t.

Do they really mean it though ?
Legion are the women awooed despite telling their suitor at first that they wished to be left alone. Lending good credence to the understanding that this is part of the game played be elegant females to inform their judgement as to the depth of commitment of a potential husband.

Zorya · 06-12-2018 9:11pm

leggo wrote: »

Anyway back to #MeToo I totally get why people find it annoying when they tell others to leave them alone and they don’t.

Right yeah because people annoying you by talking back to you on an anonymous forum when you don't want them to is any way comparable to sexual assault? Says it all really.

Remember now, the ''Anyway back to #MeToo'' is the contextualising part of the sentence - #PatronisingExplanationWordsConcepts

leggo · 06-12-2018 9:18pm

Zorya wrote: »

Right yeah because people annoying you by talking back to you on an anonymous forum when you don't want them to is any way comparable to sexual assault? Says it all really.

Remember now, the ''Anyway back to #MeToo'' is the contextualising part of the sentence - #PatronisingExplanationWordsConcepts

Do you have another conversation piece beyond “Are you comparing (whatever someone is talking about) to rape??” Change the record like. It’s been said multiple times to you in this thread, you’re the only one making weird comparisons here. It’s a bit mental tbh, sorry.

emptyhouse2222 · 06-12-2018 9:23pm

this is the beginning of metoo
tiandra kelley

BBFAN · 06-12-2018 9:26pm

emptyhouse2222 wrote: »

this is the beginning of metoo
tiandra kelley

What exactly is your point in posting a photo?

AudreyHepburn · 06-12-2018 9:28pm

backspin. wrote: »

I can't believe this is even debated.

I'm sure an actual rape victim would swap their experience for a nip on the bum without question. It's grotesque to even compare them.

Agreed and it’s this that I hate most about metoo.

We have degrees of murder for god’s sake, why can’t we have degrees here?

BBFAN · 06-12-2018 9:31pm

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Agreed and it’s this that I hate most about metoo.

We have degrees of murder for god’s sake, why can’t we have degrees here?

We do have degrees though?

Zorya · 06-12-2018 9:33pm

leggo wrote: »

Do you have another conversation piece beyond “Are you comparing (whatever someone is talking about) to rape??” Change the record like. It’s been said multiple times to you in this thread, you’re the only one making weird comparisons here. It’s a bit mental tbh, sorry.

Um no actually it has also been said in the wikipedia entry under ''Me Too'' which I posted earlier. Both sexual harrassment including minor incidents and sexual assault up to full blown rape are conflated under MeToo. I wonder how the poor young girl from Germany who was brutally raped in the inner city a few days ago feels about Georgina from the typing pool saying ''Me Too'' because Barry from accounts once said she had perky tits.

Sure, it would be great if the world was really 'nice' and people never sexually harrassed anybody else, and sexual bullying is hateful and aught to be stopped, but my guess is that as long as humans have willies and fannies there is going to be some level of sexual messiness.

And I could not give less of a single flying feck about what others say to me about my opinions on forums, because I feel I am correct in my opinion in this case. Others are entitled to their opinions, and guess what, Leggo, I am entitled to mine. They may indeed be more correct than I - I honestly do not know how my opinions will change over time - but in this case I am, as of now, absolutely convinced that conflating brutality with annoyance is a big problem. It just seems logical to me to hold that opinion. And all your condescension does not seem to change my stance, weirdly enough.

emptyhouse2222 · 06-12-2018 9:45pm

BBFAN wrote: »

What exactly is your point in posting a photo?

my point is that this is the woman who started metoo

BBFAN · 06-12-2018 9:53pm

emptyhouse2222 wrote: »

my point is that this is the woman who started metoo

Yeah right. :rolleyes:

leggo · 06-12-2018 10:07pm

Zorya wrote: »

Um no actually it has also been said in the wikipedia entry under ''Me Too'' which I posted earlier. Both sexual harrassment including minor incidents and sexual assault up to full blown rape are conflated under MeToo. I wonder how the poor young girl from Germany who was brutally raped in the inner city a few days ago feels about Georgina from the typing pool saying ''Me Too'' because Barry from accounts once said she had perky tits.

Sure, it would be great if the world was really 'nice' and people never sexually harrassed anybody else, and sexual bullying is hateful and aught to be stopped, but my guess is that as long as humans have willies and fannies there is going to be some level of sexual messiness.

And I could not give less of a single flying feck about what others say to me about my opinions on forums, because I feel I am correct in my opinion in this case. Others are entitled to their opinions, and guess what, Leggo, I am entitled to mine. They may indeed be more correct than I - I honestly do not know how my opinions will change over time - but in this case I am, as of now, absolutely convinced that conflating brutality with annoyance is a big problem. It just seems logical to me to hold that opinion. And all your condescension does not seem to change my stance, weirdly enough.

Most people take a measure of comfort in talking about bad experiences and seeing that they’re not alone or that the range of emotions they went through are natural. I think the people that have spoken to you here see it as natural to feel that way rather than compare.

It depends on one’s viewpoint though. If someone went through a bad experience then heard people talking about someone else’s bad experience and thought “Wait why am I not getting all the sympathy or attention instead?” I guess that’d be possible, but it’d mean that getting sympathy and attention would be their priority. And I don’t mean that as a bad thing, it’s comforting to get sympathy and attention, and I guess natural to seek it in light of experiencing something harrowing. Or they may not want to talk about it at all and resent people who do because it makes them relive their own experience. That’s fine too, but it also comes with the presumption that the world should share their coping mechanisms, which is kind of like telling someone how they should handle the death of a loved one. Some like to talk and let it out, others don’t, neither way is right or wrong. And you get to decide for yourself how you deal with your own bad experiences, but that freedom you enjoy also allows other people to do it their way too.

To that point, it seems pretty disrespectful to compare notes. If someone’s auntie or second cousin or work colleague died and they were sad and wanted to talk about it, it’d be bad form to tell them your mother had died and you didn’t talk so they should shut up because you’ve had it worse. You can opt out and not be the one to comfort them if it makes you uncomfortable, you can block it all out entirely, but to judge others for how they react to bad situations they encounter? I mean you’re right when you say you’re entitled to do so, but others are also entitled to think you’re being a bit of a dick FOR doing so.

Zorya · 06-12-2018 10:26pm

leggo wrote: »

Most people take a measure of comfort in talking about bad experiences and seeing that they’re not alone or that the range of emotions they went through are natural. I think the people that have spoken to you here see it as natural to feel that way rather than compare.

It depends on one’s viewpoint though. If someone went through a bad experience then heard people talking about someone else’s bad experience and thought “Wait why am I not getting all the sympathy or attention instead?” I guess that’d be possible, but it’d mean that getting sympathy and attention would be their priority. And I don’t mean that as a bad thing, it’s comforting to get sympathy and attention, and I guess natural to seek it in light of experiencing something harrowing. Or they may not want to talk about it at all and resent people who do because it makes them relive their own experience. That’s fine too, but it also comes with the presumption that the world should share their coping mechanisms, which is kind of like telling someone how they should handle the death of a loved one. Some like to talk and let it out, others don’t, neither way is right or wrong. And you get to decide for yourself how you deal with your own bad experiences, but that freedom you enjoy also allows other people to do it their way too.

To that point, it seems pretty disrespectful to compare notes. If someone’s auntie or second cousin or work colleague died and they were sad and wanted to talk about it, it’d be bad form to tell them your mother had died and you didn’t talk so they should shut up because you’ve had it worse. You can opt out and not be the one to comfort them if it makes you uncomfortable, you can block it all out entirely, but to judge others for how they react to bad situations they encounter? I mean you’re right when you say you’re entitled to do so, but others are also entitled to think you’re being a bit of a dick FOR doing so.

Yeesh. I'm not saying people should not speak of their uncomfortable experiences and I would be very sympathetic to them, harassment or bullying is disgusting. It's not in the same ballpark as aggravated sexual violence, that's all.

Let us agree to disagree. You are perfectly entitled to think I am a dick, no worries. But regardless I'm weary now of the back and forth. Go forth and prosper.

Mrsmum · 06-12-2018 10:38pm

I don't think there is one person in the entire world that thinks rape and groping are the same. But like why should women just shut up about being groped or embarrassed by sexual comments directed at them or told we must be nice to sleezy client because said client is so important to the company or having Billy Fool slapping their bottom because it's just so peachy he can't help himself or being asked what size bra they are wearing cause all the lads have a bet on about it. These are stories my immediate friends have shared. Who says we can't talk about that. Is there some law that I don't know about that says telling these experiences isn't allowed. If one man is mugged and another man is murdered, should the mugged man just shut up and count his blessings. How does his talking about his trauma in any way lessen the far worse case of murder.

Sweetemotion · 06-12-2018 10:38pm

I always find male feminists creepy. Especially those who say "as a man" and then go on to tell us how great they are. Who then try to silence women, whose opinions differ from theirs.

givyjoe · 06-12-2018 10:51pm

leggo wrote: »

Do you have another conversation piece beyond “Are you comparing (whatever someone is talking about) to rape??” Change the record like. It’s been said multiple times to you in this thread, you’re the only one making weird comparisons here. It’s a bit mental tbh, sorry.

What's wrong, do you not like people challenging your points of view?

professore · 06-12-2018 11:02pm

I'm sorry but this is sexual harassment in 2018. Whatever about the other accusations there is no way this is sexual harassment.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 06-12-2018 11:02pm

Grayson wrote: »

I just read this today. It's about how people underestimate who widespread sexual harassment is

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/06/men-underestimate-level-of-sexual-harassment-against-women-survey

"The EU survey’s definition included unwelcome touching, sexually suggestive comments or jokes, staring or leering, being sent sexually explicit pictures or messages and indecent exposure among other forms of harassment."

I mean, look. If you feel someone staring at you is sexual harrassment then fair enough. But I'd have to completely disagree. If the standard as to what constitutes sexual harassment wasn't so low then the stats would be lower. I've been sent an sexually explicit pictures by a woman, was I sexual harrassed?

professore · 06-12-2018 11:03pm

I'm sorry but this is sexual harassment in 2018. Whatever about the other accusations there is no way this is sexual harassment.

leggo · 06-12-2018 11:04pm

Sweetemotion wrote: »

I always find male feminists creepy. Especially those who say "as a man" and then go on to tell us how great they are. Who then try to silence women, whose opinions differ from theirs.

Oh yawn, stop resting on such lazy arguments that sound good in your head but don’t actually show any understanding for the situation as it is. Where did I try silence her? I gave her a long arse post respectfully taking her point seriously and explaining where I differ. I said “As a man” in an earlier post not to give myself a false sense of authority (it wouldn’t anyway if I did that, you’d be damn sure it’d get picked on before now, fortunately most understood that), but to indicate that I could see and share a male viewpoint yet still felt a certain way. I’m not a feminist or an anything ‘-ist’, it’s gas I’ve also been accused of hating women on boards too because I’ve defended men on certain issues, because THAT’S how we understand issues in 2018: you’re either one side or the other, no way you just actually give a **** and looked at it from a neutral standpoint before arriving at a fair conclusion! “You have to have an agenda man, because I can’t argue with the logic of your posts so I’m just going to say that and it’ll sound nice and I’ll feel better!”

This isn’t a paternal split or a war, you don’t have to choose ‘sides’, you can feel one way about one issue and another about another if you care to actually look into the issues instead of seeing it as all black and white.

The reality is discourse on this site has gone to the dogs because of this gender wars ****e. Every single topic becomes a gender war, everyone is arguing for their own gender’s benefit and every issue seems to become “Well men/women have it worse!” There was a time here when you’d get a balanced and nuanced view of a subject because people would have shame and take a step back to look at a topic from a balanced POV taking the facts and evidence into account. I guess this is what ‘post-truth’ looks like. Black and white and everyone yelling instead of actually having a reasoned discussion with the common goal of reaching a consensus.

emptyhouse2222 · 06-12-2018 11:06pm

leggo wrote: »

Oh yawn, stop resting on such lazy arguments that sound good in your head but don’t actually show any understanding for the situation as it is. Where did I try silence her? I gave her a long arse post respectfully taking her point seriously and explaining where I differ. I said “As a man” in an earlier post not to give myself a false sense of authority (it wouldn’t anyway if I did that, you’d be damn sure it’d get picked on before now, fortunately most understood that), but to indicate that I could see and share a male viewpoint yet still felt a certain way. I’m not a feminist or an anything ‘-ist’, it’s gas I’ve also been accused of hating women on boards too because I’ve defended men on certain issues, because THAT’S how we understand issues in 2018: you’re either one side or the other, no way you just actually give a **** and looked at it from a neutral standpoint before arriving at a fair conclusion!

This isn’t a paternal split or a war, you don’t have to choose ‘sides’, you can feel one way about one issue and another about another if you care to actually look into the issues instead of seeing it as all black and white.

The reality is discourse on this site has gone to the dogs because of this gender wars ****e. Every single topic becomes a gender war, everyone is arguing for their own gender’s benefit and every issue seems to become “Well men/women have it worse!” There was a time here when you’d get a balanced and nuanced view of a subject because people would have shame and take a step back to look at a topic from a balanced POV taking the facts and evidence into account. I guess this is what ‘post-truth’ looks like. Black and white and everyone yelling instead of actually having a reasoned discussion with the common goal of reaching a consensus.

Stop projecting

Mrsmum · 06-12-2018 11:26pm

DanDan6592 wrote: »

"The EU survey’s definition included unwelcome touching, sexually suggestive comments or jokes, staring or leering, being sent sexually explicit pictures or messages and indecent exposure among other forms of harassment."

I mean, look. If you feel someone staring at you is sexual harrassment then fair enough. But I'd have to completely disagree. If the standard as to what constitutes sexual harassment wasn't so low then the stats would be lower. I've been sent an sexually explicit pictures by a woman, was I sexual harrassed?

Just because you didn't feel harassed doesn't mean everyone else must not mind either. And as for staring that could be quite uncomfortable if a person is staring at your breasts or legs and just won't stop. We don't mean an innocent one off stare. It's a bit boring to have to keep explaining these things.

I declare the next time I hear man, woman or child telling of some distress they suffered, I'm going to say - listen here, see that thing that happened to you, well the way it is other people would have no problem with that so you've nothing to be upset about and anyway there are worse things that could have happened so shut up, you're belittling real traumas. Not.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 06-12-2018 11:35pm

Mrsmum wrote: »

Just because you didn't feel harassed doesn't mean everyone else must not mind either. And as for staring that could be quite uncomfortable if a person is staring at your breasts or legs and just won't stop. We don't mean an innocent one off stare. It's a bit boring to have to keep explaining these things.

And this is one of the areas were modern feminism loses me. I'm sorry, but someone staring at you, even your breasts, is a minor inconvenience at worst. Literally get over it. Ye the blokes a creep, whatever. But it gets blown up into this godawful thing, which it isn't, to portray women as these constantly oppressed individuals vis a vis the survey that was produced off the back of staring being considered sexual harassment.

Mrsmum wrote: »

I declare the next time I hear man, woman or child telling of some distress they suffered, I'm going to say - listen here, see that thing that happened to you, well the way it is other people would have no problem with that so you've nothing to be upset about and anyway there are worse things that could have happened so shut up, you're belittling real traumas. Not.

This is exactly whats happened with the #metoo movement. There was an article posted earlier of a rape victim saying exactly this. I'll try go find it.

Mrsmum · 06-12-2018 11:44pm

Thanks for the advice DanDan to just suck it up but see I continue to think if metoo brings an awareness that people are entitled not to be subjected to creepy behaviour at work, that would be a good day's work.

That rape victim is entitled to her opinion as is everyone.

End of #metoo

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