Female teachers having affairs with students

The Corinthian · 08-01-2011 2:15pm

CDfm wrote: »

All things being equal does not always work as a 14 year old boy cannot get pregnant apart from that the law on women and minors is a bit daft .

The pregnancy argument may have made sense a century ago, it certainly does not now.

CDfm · 08-01-2011 2:52pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

The pregnancy argument may have made sense a century ago, it certainly does not now.

Maybe, I may be biased as the dad of a teenage girl now turned 17.

liah · 08-01-2011 3:07pm

I think what bothers me about teacher-student relationships is the fact that a teacher could find a teen student attractive knowing full well their brains aren't fully matured. I mean, yeah, some kids are more mature than others but a teenager is a teenager, they're still naive to some degree and if they're not it's probably for a not so nice reason. Either way, what on earth draws these teachers to them?

I could understand a purely physical attraction to some degree, some later teens are very much grown up in terms of their bodies. But I just don't get why an adult would be attracted to a teen's brain, knowing that they're not fully mature regardless of how they act would be enough to make one ignore any kind of sexual desire.

I dunno. I find it really creepy when people are attracted to that kind of naivete. Maybe I shouldn't've read Lolita :pac:

metrovelvet · 08-01-2011 3:55pm

liah wrote: »

I think what bothers me about teacher-student relationships is the fact that a teacher could find a teen student attractive knowing full well their brains aren't fully matured. I mean, yeah, some kids are more mature than others but a teenager is a teenager, they're still naive to some degree and if they're not it's probably for a not so nice reason. Either way, what on earth draws these teachers to them?

I could understand a purely physical attraction to some degree, some later teens are very much grown up in terms of their bodies. But I just don't get why an adult would be attracted to a teen's brain, knowing that they're not fully mature regardless of how they act would be enough to make one ignore any kind of sexual desire.

I dunno. I find it really creepy when people are attracted to that kind of naivete. Maybe I shouldn't've read Lolita :pac:

Lol. I dont think its their brains they are attracted to. They are attracted to both their physique and their naivety, from what I would imagine. THey might also be attracted or seduced by the attention and pursuit that students can provide, although this pursuit is often borne in naive motivations and assumptions, mainly that the teacher will not respond.

metrovelvet · 08-01-2011 3:59pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

Legally they're safer going for 40 year old women - 14 year old boys can be charged with statutory rape of a 14 year old girl, once they become adults. Ironically, while the 40 year old woman can be charged with molestation of a minor, she cannot similarly be charged with statutory rape of the 14 year old boy.

You gotta love Irish law.

You are mixing up your language quite dangerously here.

Statutory rape, a term which is not even that much in use anymore, is different from molestation. Statutory rape, or sexual assuault of a minor applies to an adult having sexual relations with a minor. It is not the same as FORCED rape, or rape 1, 2nd or third degree. It is there for the judges to be able to apply charges in cases where there is coercian and consent can be questioned, which is not always in place where you have an adult and a minor [or person under the age of consent.]

Molestation and child sex abuse refers to sexual assualt against a minor who has not reached puberty yet.

metrovelvet · 08-01-2011 4:07pm

daithi2011 wrote: »

Ive heard this one about every teacher, lecturer i've ever had. I put it down to idle made up gossip. One girl I know started spreading those rumors about a lecturer and her best friend told me that she was in bits one night and laid it all out to her in tears. The real story was that when she made advances to the lecturer but was rejected. Spread the stories for revenge.

Oleanna?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleanna_(play)

liah · 08-01-2011 4:28pm

metrovelvet wrote: »

Lol. I dont think its their brains they are attracted to. They are attracted to both their physique and their naivety, from what I would imagine. THey might also be attracted or seduced by the attention and pursuit that students can provide, although this pursuit is often borne in naive motivations and assumptions, mainly that the teacher will not respond.

Well, that's what I mean-- why would someone be attracted to that kind of naivete? It's creepy, imho. What is the appeal in it?

The Corinthian · 08-01-2011 4:53pm

metrovelvet wrote: »

Statutory rape, a term which is not even that much in use anymore, is different from molestation. Statutory rape, or sexual assuault of a minor applies to an adult having sexual relations with a minor. It is not the same as FORCED rape, or rape 1, 2nd or third degree. It is there for the judges to be able to apply charges in cases where there is coercian and consent can be questioned, which is not always in place where you have an adult and a minor [or person under the age of consent.]

Molestation and child sex abuse refers to sexual assault against a minor who has not reached puberty yet.

Actually I think you'll find I differentiated between rape and molestation in my earlier post.

Rape, of a minor or otherwise, refers to sexual or anal intercourse under Irish law. Sexual assault and aggravated sexual assault are separate charges, better known as molestation, and are defined by other sexual acts (e.g. oral sex).

My understanding, as per the Rape Act 1981, is that because men are the active party in intercourse, they are deemed responsible for the act, while women are not - thus meaning that while a woman may be held accountable for (aggravated) sexual assault, she cannot for rape.

The Sexual Offences Act 2006, also specifically states that a female child under the age of 17 is not guilty of any offense under the act. No such provision is made for male children under the age of 17 and they are thus liable.

I've never understood the logic behind this last bit; a 14-year old boy is considered criminally culpable of an act that he is not considered legally capable of consenting to.

metrovelvet · 08-01-2011 5:13pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

Actually I think you'll find I differentiated between rape and molestation in my earlier post.

Rape, of a minor or otherwise, refers to sexual or anal intercourse under Irish law. Sexual assault and aggravated sexual assault are separate charges, better known as molestation, and are defined by other sexual acts (e.g. oral sex).

My understanding, as per the Rape Act 1981, is that because men are the active party in intercourse, they are deemed responsible for the act, while women are not - thus meaning that while a woman may be held accountable for (aggravated) sexual assault, she cannot for rape.

The Sexual Offences Act 2006, also specifically states that a female child under the age of 17 is not guilty of any offense under the act. No such provision is made for male children under the age of 17 and they are thus liable.

I've never understood the logic behind this last bit; a 14-year old boy is considered criminally culpable of an act that he is not considered legally capable of consenting to.

My point is there is a vast difference between statutory rape, rape, and molestation.

There is an underlying hipocracy in how the law sees minors, they can get tried but they cant sit on juries, so the law is quite double binding on where it stands on a minor's mental capacity.

It is not until recently that Irish women could sit on juries, probably for the same reasoning that children cant, mental capacity and all that jazz, and perhaps this loophole in Irish law around male and female minors is a victorian hangover, and god knows IRish law is awash with those.

metrovelvet · 08-01-2011 5:14pm

liah wrote: »

Well, that's what I mean-- why would someone be attracted to that kind of naivete? It's creepy, imho. What is the appeal in it?

I dunno. I dont know why some people find ageing hippies attractive. I think they are creepy but there you go.

CDfm · 08-01-2011 5:19pm

daithi2011 wrote: »

Ive heard this one about every teacher, lecturer i've ever had. I put it down to idle made up gossip. One girl I know started spreading those rumors about a lecturer and her best friend told me that she was in bits one night and laid it all out to her in tears. The real story was that when she made advances to the lecturer but was rejected. Spread the stories for revenge.

metrovelvet wrote: »

Oleanna?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleanna_(play)

It happened in my final year in college and a girl started a rumour. . He was supervising her final year project and it was not going well.The girl was a friend of mine and I helped her research and write a different final year project without which she would not have graduated. (Totally altruistic & she never as much as bought me a sandwich).

I also was the class rep.She told me her reason for the lie was financial as she would not have been able to repeat the year and she was desperate.

It could have ruined her college career but as it was he ,graciously, allowed her switch and got her an all needed for extention from the Head of Department.

limklad · 08-01-2011 7:46pm

Kimia wrote: »

Several women have been sent to jail for years, do you think they deserved it? Do you think it's the same as child abuse when the 'child' involved is almost an adult - maybe 16/17/18?

It is call equality. You cannot discriminate according to sex. So yes.
If you Jail men for riding young female students as sex crimes, then you should jail female teachers for riding young male students. It is only fair.

Even at 16/17/18, they still impressionable and easily misled, immature with all that sexual hormones going around. The Teachers are meant to be responsible they should be punished for been irresponsible as the students can easily be manipulate teachers to give good grades for lousy work.

CDfm · 09-01-2011 12:27am

limklad wrote: »

If you Jail men for riding young female students as sex crimes, then you should jail female teachers for riding young male students. It is only fair.

It is easier not to discuss the value system which may allow this.

parker kent · 09-01-2011 12:41am

CDfm wrote: »

How many ?

14 year old boys usually like 14 year old girls.

It is pretty well known how much of a fantasy that would be for most 14 year old boys. A large amount of conversations between boys that age in school will be about the "hot" teacher.

The key word though is fantasy. Having a crush on your teachers, perfectly normal. Having a relationship with her, not so great. Most men just remember the crushes they had on their teachers and think that it would have been great if they came true. I imagine that the kids involved in these cases (especially those under 16) will think very differently in years to come.

CDfm · 09-01-2011 1:07am

Hey, but hormonally teenagers of both genders are all over the place.

Lots of people have crushes but don't act on them. Adults in positions of authority ought not to.

With a guy it is fairly clear cut - you know that there are lines not to cross and the punishments if they are.

You don't have the same clarity for girls and women.

Giselle · 09-01-2011 1:38am

CDfm wrote: »

You don't have the same clarity for girls and women.

I think this thread shows how clear it is to most people, that its as heinious for a female instigator as for a male.

I think Parker Kent is right in saying that at the time most 16 year old guys will be positive about the experience, but in later times they'll change that position.

I think its true too of the reverse if a 16 year old girl gets with an older male teacher, she might see it as a badge of maturity at the time, but as real maturity sets in she'll see it for the explotation of authority that it is.

CDfm · 09-01-2011 2:44am

Its a bit of a minefield. But say you got a woman predator targeting a teenage girl you would get more outrage than you would get with a boy being targeted by the same woman.

It is just an odd mindset and there is no doubt in my mind that the reason some guys dont is that the law is so clear and the messages are unambiguous.

Everyone knows the rules as it is criminalised and it is talked about and discussed because it is criminalised. Whereas, with women and boys( and boys hit puberty later than girls) the rules are not codified or actions criminalised or enforced to the same degree and may not even warrant a garda investigation,

In that way, people are less "aware" and it is almost an academic concept or moral & ethical issue when it is discussed as opposed to a crime with criminal penalties which gets discussed and reported in the media.

That in my mind is the distinction, and, of course, if a boy were to come forward with a complaint there is very little that can be done in terms of prosecution or investigation in Ireland as it is neither in our culture or laws to deal with it.

johnn · 09-01-2011 5:06pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

I agree, when you read what they did, such as the case of Pamela Rogers Turner, but then when you see what she looks like, you really have to ask your self; "WTF???!!!"

Nice.

The Corinthian · 09-01-2011 5:35pm

johnn wrote: »

Nice.

Ahh, that may be your first reaction (and in fairness it was mine too), but when you think about it how comfortable would you be with your 13-year old daughter sleeping with Brad Pit or Johnny Depp?

LilMsss · 09-01-2011 6:53pm

I'm a teacher, mainly 16 + and Further Education, and although many of my students are 18 and over, there is not a chance in hell that I would ever even consider having a relationship with one of them! Apart from the ethical concerns, and professional repercussions, my students are sooo young to me, both emotionally and physically. I'm 30 BTW.

Many of my male students have asked me out, or have made comments of a sexual nature to me (before anyone freaks out, some of the work I have done has been in education centres with troubled teens, so many of them are doing it to provoke a reaction, or for attention - even negative, so it's generally managed there and then, as opposed to how it would be handled in a formal school setting).

I am involved in the emotional and educational development of my students, and there is just no way a situation like that would be allowed to arise in my classroom. Even if the student is the one attempting to initiate such a relationship, I am the professional, and couldn't fathom why any adult would want to have a relationship with a student (or child) in their care, regardless of the age difference.

CDfm · 09-01-2011 8:47pm

@lilmiss - and that is absolutely the way it should be.

Thing is , not everyone thinks that way and the danger always is that those who do not will look on the profession you undertake ethically as an opportunity. It would be a shame, my mother was a remedial teacher and taught very disadvantaged boys.

In that way, as we have seen in other areas , it is the exceptions that make the rules.

metrovelvet · 09-01-2011 8:56pm

CDfm wrote: »

@lilmiss - and that is absolutely the way it should be.

Thing is , not everyone thinks that way and the danger always is that those who do not will look on the profession you undertake ethically as an opportunity. It would be a shame, my mother was a remedial teacher and taught very disadvantaged boys.

In that way, as we have seen in other areas , it is the exceptions that make the rules.

And some are attracted to the profession for the opportunity it affords. I am ashamed to say I know a man who upon finding his attraction to men become younger and younger nearly decided to train as a Jesuit.

Lil miss- I do not think it is acceptable for you to have to put up with sexual harrassment from your students.

neuro-praxis · 09-01-2011 10:11pm

The Corinthian wrote:

I agree, when you read what they did, such as the case of Pamela Rogers Turner, but then when you see what she looks like, you really have to ask your self; "WTF???!!!"

Yeah but, being good-looking doesn't preclude you from being a sexual predator, which she is.

Ficheall · 09-01-2011 10:39pm

What about when one goes to University? Assuming the student is of legal age, should that duty of care argument prevent a teacher and student hooking up? Where does one draw the line?
I've had one attractive lecturer in my time at university. She was doing a postdoc, quite young, attractive. Had she, or the opportunity, presented themself, I would not have seen anything wrong in having a relationship with her, as it were. It might have made things a little awkward if people found out, granted, but that would be up to us to consider.
What about lab demonstrators and tutors who may easily be the same age as the students?

(I'm not trying to use any of this as an argument that "female teachers having affairs with students" is okay - but the 'duty of care' concept has never been entirely clear to me...)

parker kent · 09-01-2011 11:33pm

Ficheall wrote: »

(I'm not trying to use any of this as an argument that "female teachers having affairs with students" is okay - but the 'duty of care' concept has never been entirely clear to me...)

To me the duty of care arises when the person is in a position of care over a potentially vulnerable person. Ditto the power that they may hold over that person. A teacher is supposed to present a safe environment where kids are free to learn and grow. Having sex with them is not giving such an environment.

The official description of the duty of care for teachers in Ireland is as follows. I think having sex with the students would not exactly count as acting like a reasonably prudent parent!

The following general principles apply:

Teachers must take reasonable care to ensure that their students do not meet with foreseeable injury. They have a duty to protect the children against foreseeable risks of personal injury or harm.

The standard of care is that of a reasonably prudent parent. The degree of care depends on such factors as the age of the students.

There must be an effective system of supervision in operation in the school.
The duty of care applies while the students are on the school premises during school opening hours. It may also apply if the students are present outside of official school hours, e.g., if they arrive early or leave late and the teacher/school has agreed to the students being present

The same duty of care applies if a teacher voluntarily supervises children.

Teachers are required to follow good standards and approved practice. Risky classes and activities require a greater degree of supervision. If goggles, protective clothing, etc., are supplied for certain activities, it is the teacher's duty to ensure that they are worn

Teachers are not insurers and cannot be responsible for every accident in school hours. The courts accept that some accidents will happen no matter how well supervision is carried out and, in such cases, the teacher/school cannot be held liable.

09-01-2011 11:42pm

Ficheall wrote: »

What about when one goes to University? Assuming the student is of legal age, should that duty of care argument prevent a teacher and student hooking up? Where does one draw the line?
I've had one attractive lecturer in my time at university. She was doing a postdoc, quite young, attractive. Had she, or the opportunity, presented themself, I would not have seen anything wrong in having a relationship with her, as it were. It might have made things a little awkward if people found out, granted, but that would be up to us to consider.
What about lab demonstrators and tutors who may easily be the same age as the students?

(I'm not trying to use any of this as an argument that "female teachers having affairs with students" is okay - but the 'duty of care' concept has never been entirely clear to me...)

And if you had ended up in a relationship with her, would she have been able to guarantee it wouldn't have changed the nature of her teaching role with you? She wouldn't have graded you easier, or given you tips about what's coming up in an exam?

nesbitt · 10-01-2011 12:07am

Any teacher having an affair with a student is wrong in my view...

Thinking back to my own school days and I would rather have poked my eyes out with a sharp stick than go near any of them...:D

CDfm · 10-01-2011 12:14am

Ficheall wrote: »

(I'm not trying to use any of this as an argument that "female teachers having affairs with students" is okay - but the 'duty of care' concept has never been entirely clear to me...)

It probably is in the same category as sleeping with your boss.

If everything goes OK , then it is great, it is when it doesn't that there is a problem.

The risk to the member of staff is that if it does they face a sexual harrassment issue which a normal person would not want.

Ficheall · 10-01-2011 2:05am

28064212 wrote: »

And if you had ended up in a relationship with her, would she have been able to guarantee it wouldn't have changed the nature of her teaching role with you? She wouldn't have graded you easier, or given you tips about what's coming up in an exam?

Hot swedish blonde > few extra marks in a piss-easy subject, to be honest.

But fine - I won't have sex with any of the people in my tutorials.
sigh...

CDfm · 10-01-2011 2:28am

I 'spose it is very academic unless you get someone saying well I was in the situation or my friend was sleeping with an underage guy and I intervened/did not intervene.

mikemac · 10-01-2011 2:39am

You don't need new laws, just enforce what's there

Give them the same consequences if it was a male teacher with a female student. But then legal ages are different

In the event the law is different I'd say

If the student is underage, charge the teacher and bring them to court.
If the student is of age, dismiss the teacher

10-01-2011 12:26pm

Ficheall wrote: »

Hot swedish blonde > few extra marks in a piss-easy subject, to be honest.

I didn't say marks were your motivation for wanting to do it. That's irrelevant. The problem is that any kind of relationship makes it impossible for her to remain objective. Part of her job description is to treat all students fairly and equally. She can't do that if she's sleeping with one of them. And even if she could, it would raise still attract resentment from the rest of the class

Ficheall wrote: »

But fine - I won't have sex with any of the people in my tutorials.
sigh...

Go ahead, just prepare to be fired.

CDfm · 10-01-2011 3:07pm

LilMsss wrote: »

I'm a teacher, mainly 16 + and Further Education, and although many of my students are 18 and over, there is not a chance in hell that I would ever even consider having a relationship with one of them! Apart from the ethical concerns, and professional repercussions, my students are sooo young to me, both emotionally and physically. I'm 30 BTW.

Many of my male students have asked me out, or have made comments of a sexual nature to me (before anyone freaks out, some of the work I have done has been in education centres with troubled teens, so many of them are doing it to provoke a reaction, or for attention - even negative, so it's generally managed there and then, as opposed to how it would be handled in a formal school setting).

I am involved in the emotional and educational development of my students, and there is just no way a situation like that would be allowed to arise in my classroom. Even if the student is the one attempting to initiate such a relationship, I am the professional, and couldn't fathom why any adult would want to have a relationship with a student (or child) in their care, regardless of the age difference.

28064212 wrote: »

I didn't say marks were your motivation for wanting to do it. That's irrelevant. The problem is that any kind of relationship makes it impossible for her to remain objective. Part of her job description is to treat all students fairly and equally. She can't do that if she's sleeping with one of them. And even if she could, it would raise still attract resentment from the rest of the class

Go ahead, just prepare to be fired.

These kind of nail a lot of it down for me - its about values and ethics and safety.

Education is about learning , growth & development for the student & not for intimate relationships by the teacher/carer.

And, those values/rules should be enforced irrespective of gender.

The huge question hanging off the cliff here is whether or not it happens here in ireland ?

Permabear · 11-01-2011 6:42pm

This post has been deleted.

The Corinthian · 11-01-2011 7:05pm

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'm afraid not always:

"[Judge Reynolds] pointed out that the maximum sentence she can hand down under this legislation is a term of seven years in prison.

'Had this being a case of a male person being convicted - a much longer sentence would be allowed under more recently amended legislation. A man convicted of incest can be jailed up to a maximum of a life sentence,' she said."

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0122/roscommon.html

If course, that appertains to cases of incest, but what is more worrying is that this discrimination is as a result of "recently amended legislation".

The discrepancy exists because the girl can become pregnant. If the law disregarded gender, the very fact of a pregnancy could be adduced as evidence to prove a girl guilty of a criminal offense—meaning that a girl who had become pregnant by her underage boyfriend might be less likely to seek antenatal care and might even resort to a backstreet abortion in an effort to evade the criminal charge of having engaged in sexual activity with a minor.

Which is of course utterly ridiculous, because as I posted earlier, neither should be charged. It is a disgusting, sexist law - effectively you've just admitted that it is just pleading the belly.

Permabear · 11-01-2011 7:45pm

This post has been deleted.

Reward · 11-01-2011 8:42pm

Notice how when its a female teacher and a student its always refereed to as "an affair" or "a romance" rather that it being presented as rape, or abuse.

Permabear · 11-01-2011 10:09pm

This post has been deleted.

Reward · 11-01-2011 10:15pm

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Its the same thing when female sex tourism is reported they are said to be "looking for romance" while a male sex tourist as we all know is evil. I do think there is a complete over reaction when it comes to male teacher with female student and a complete under-reaction when it is the other way around.

11-01-2011 10:19pm

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The typical mistake is not realising that the two are not mutually exclusive. Just because it might be the teenager's dream does not mean it's not a predatory adult. Report's presenting it from one point of view does not mean the other is not true. If there was a 15 year-old fully-developed cheerleader who used her charms to get an attractive older man, there would be plenty of people saying she was opportunistic. It doesn't make what he did any less wrong

Reward · 11-01-2011 10:26pm

28064212 wrote: »

The typical mistake is not realising that the two are not mutually exclusive. Just because it might be the teenager's dream does not mean it's not a predatory adult. Report's presenting it from one point of view does not mean the other is not true. If there was a 15 year-old fully-developed cheerleader who used her charms to get an attractive older man, there would be plenty of people saying she was opportunistic. It doesn't make what he did any less wrong

Well, a 15 year old fully developed female is the same as an average 17 or 18 year old male so she is capable of making decisions IMO. Me, when I was 15 I was seeing a 25 year old and I have fond memories of those times so there is no reason why a 15 year girl couldn't too, I honestly think that pedo hysteria and political correctness stops us from being able to process these things properly and rationally.

What bothers me is the reporting, male does it = evil, female does it = seduction, romance, affair.

11-01-2011 10:28pm

Reward wrote: »

Well, a 15 year old fully developed female is the same as an average 17 or 18 year old male

No, she's not

Reward wrote: »

so she is capable of making decisions IMO. Me, when I was 15 I was seeing a 25 year old and I have fond memories of those time there is no reason why a 15 year girl couldn't too, I honestly think that pedo hysteria and political correctness stops us from being able to process these things properly and rationally.

So any age with any age is fine once they've hit puberty?

Reward · 11-01-2011 10:36pm

28064212 wrote: »

No, she's not

So any age with any age is fine once they've hit puberty?

Don't put words in my mouth, I'm saying that in an era of hysterics about sex crimes and the lynch mob mentality its difficult for people to be rational about these things.

I don't know how to multi quote here, females don't mature for as long as males and females are supposedly 2 years ahead of males in terms of maturity in the teens so 15 year old girl = 17 year old boy.

metrovelvet · 11-01-2011 10:47pm

Reward wrote: »

Well, a 15 year old fully developed female is the same as an average 17 or 18 year old male so she is capable of making decisions IMO. Me, when I was 15 I was seeing a 25 year old and I have fond memories of those times so there is no reason why a 15 year girl couldn't too, I honestly think that pedo hysteria and political correctness stops us from being able to process these things properly and rationally.

What bothers me is the reporting, male does it = evil, female does it = seduction, romance, affair.

Not true. What does 'fully developed' mean? Do you mean breasts and menstruating? That happenned to my friend when she was 7.

Typically women in my family dont start menstruating until 16.

No offense reward, but no one can know how that 25 year old affected you. It would be the last thing I would want for my son if it meant he would end up having some of the perspectives and opinions of women you have.

Reward · 11-01-2011 10:58pm

28064212 wrote: »

No, she's not

So any age with any age is fine once they've hit puberty?

metrovelvet wrote: »

Not true. What does 'fully developed' mean? Do you mean breasts and menstruating? That happenned to my friend when she was 7.

Typically women in my family dont start menstruating until 16.

No offense reward, but no one can know how that 25 year old affected you. It would be the last thing I would want for my son if it meant he would end up having some of the perspectives and opinions of women you have.

Well a typical woman in your family at 16 is different from a fully developed sexually precocious girl of 16.

When it comes to sex crimes its insane, in one breath you have a women here talking about calling the police because of a man changing on the beach, in another there are demands to criminalise sex with prostitutes and all the while women have a similar status to what the priests had, their pedophilia and child abuse is taboo, cougars are applauded and when they sleep with their students its "an affair".

In an atmosphere drenched in magical thinking and double standards, its difficult to be objective, thats all Im saying.

As for my opinions, I reject backward feminist dogma and double standards, which makes me a "misogynist" - a term which means little these days other than someone who is disagreeing with feminist dogma and double standards.

metrovelvet · 11-01-2011 11:07pm

Reward wrote: »

Well a typical woman in your family at 16 is different from a fully developed sexually precocious girl of 16.

When it comes to sex crimes its insane, in one breath you have a women here talking about calling the police because of a man changing on the beach, in another there are demands to criminalise sex with prostitutes and all the while women have a similar status to what the priests had, their pedophilia and child abuse is taboo and when they sleep with their students its "an affair".

In an atmosphere drenched in magical thinking and double standards, its difficult to be objective, thats all Im saying.

As for my opinions, I reject backward feminist dogma and double standards, which makes me a "misogynist" - a term which means little these days other than someone who is disagreeing with feminist dogma and double standards.

Thats not what makes you a misogynist.

You also failed to address my friend's capacity for consent when at 7 she was menstruating and fully developed.

I would also say that the women in my family are further advanced intellectually at 16 than most other 16 year olds.

While you have positive memories of your trist with the 25 year old my friend who was molested by a priest when he was 14 also says he enjoyed it.

My point is your criteria is a little ridiculous.

ANd plenty of feminists agree with you about prostitution btw.

11-01-2011 11:09pm

Reward wrote: »

Don't put words in my mouth, I'm saying that in an era of hysterics about sex crimes and the lynch mob mentality its difficult for people to be rational about these things.

Most people on this thread have been perfectly rational

Reward wrote: »

females don't mature for as long as males and females are supposedly 2 years ahead of males in terms of maturity in the teens so 15 year old girl = 17 year old boy.

That's a commonly stated "fact". I've never seen any evidence for it. It's true that women (on average) physically mature earlier than boys (on average). There is no evidence I'm aware of that says women are more mentally capable of a sexual relationship

Reward wrote: »

As for my opinions, I reject backward feminist dogma and double standards, which makes me a "misogynist" - a term which means little these days other than someone who is disagreeing with feminist dogma and double standards.

True feminism is about equality. Misandry is the word you're looking for, which is equally as wrong misogyny, and very little of it has been displayed on this thread

Reward · 11-01-2011 11:14pm

metrovelvet wrote: »

Thats not what makes you a misogynist.

You also failed to address my friend's capacity for consent when at 7 she was menstruating and fully developed.

I would also say that the women in my family are further advanced intellectually at 16 than most other 16 year olds.

While you have positive memories of your trist with the 25 year old my friend who was molested by a priest when he was 14 also says he enjoyed it.

My point is your criteria is a little ridiculous.

ANd plenty of feminists agree with you about prostitution btw.

I'm ignoring your comment about the 7 year old because is stupid and Ill ask you not to insinuate that I'm a pedophile, how typical of you to try to insinuate that.

You, going by your other posts are fairly illiberal and judgmental about sex, I'm fairly the opposite so perhaps you and I had better not discuss it.

And if I have positive memories of learning about sex, which I was having anyway and partying with a 25 year old when I was 15 who do are you to say otherwise, totalitarian ideologues don't, despite their beliefs to the contrary, get to define other peoples realities.

11-01-2011 11:16pm

Reward wrote: »

I'm ignoring your comment about the 7 year old because is stupid

It's not

Reward wrote: »

and Ill ask you not to insinuate that I'm a pedophile

She didn't

Reward · 11-01-2011 11:18pm

28064212 wrote: »

It's not

She didn't

Let her speak for herself.

Female teachers having affairs with students

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