Looking for options if sales collapse due to Coronavirus.

PickYourName · 12-03-2020 8:45pm #1

So far, my business is holding its own, despite many in the sector (hospitality) suffering very badly. With the latest announcement today, there’s a good chance our sales will collapse to almost zero next week. Due to a major investment last year, we have next to no cash reserves.

What are my options, in particular in relation to staff? I’m not so much looking for strategic advice, for which I’d have to share more information than I’d be comfortable with, but operational. If I just ask staff to take unpaid leave, presumably they won’t be able to claim social welfare, making things extremely difficult for them (and indeed for me, as I’m in the same situation). If I make them redundant, it will be difficult to get restarted in (hopefully) a few weeks’ time.

What are the options, and advantages and disadvantages of each?

roots2branches · 12-03-2020 9:43pm

I don't have staff, just me but my sales have fallen off the cliff last two days as i'm in the entertainment industry and shows are cancelled.
My understanding is I can get some gov support if I get the virus, anyone know if there is any assistance to be had if I don't get the virus?

listermint · 12-03-2020 9:45pm

Cut hours ? Staff could claim social welfare if hours are certain threshold

PickYourName · 12-03-2020 9:48pm

listermint wrote: »

Cut hours ? Staff could claim social welfare if hours are certain threshold

OK, that's interesting - I wasn't aware that was a possibility for them.

jimmii · 12-03-2020 9:53pm

Got to say for all the criticism of the UK government's response the things put in place in the budget yesterday are amazing for small businesses. Hopefully the Irish governemnt is going to put something together over there too. I had been hoping something would happen with rates wasn't expecting self employed sick pay and a grant being made available too.

han2000 · 12-03-2020 9:55pm

Just speaking with a friend of mine who is a childcare worker. She is off work for the next two weeks with no pay and must go to the social welfare office tomorrow to sign on for the time she is off.

The government announced details of assistance that employees who find themselves in such a situation can avail of. Obviously most will still be losing money as social welfare payments are around the €200 mark per week. It is still better than nothing though.

dreamers75 · 12-03-2020 9:56pm

Give the staff a heads up, there may be a delay in any social payments due to noone being there.

Jurgen Klopp · 12-03-2020 10:02pm

If their hours are cut they can claim SW

Make sure you were to do in such a way their hours are based over 1 or 2 days only

For example I've had to cut Mary to 10 hours a week she does them all of a Monday only

Reason being if you were to work 1 hour a day for even 4 days a week they won't give feck all. Absolute joke but that's how they are set up

antoinolachtnai · 12-03-2020 10:20pm

Forms UP14 (social welfare) and RP9 (redundancy payments acts) are what you need to put full time employees on short time.

https://www.gov.ie/en/service/c20e1b-short-time-work-support/

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/redundancy/lay_off_short_time_working_and_redundancy.html

Even if your employee is not eligible for Short Time Work Support they may be eligible for something else.

You need to think inaginatively about what you can offer, if anything with much reduced staffing and hours.

It is important to move quickly here to observe cash.

Communication with staff is very important. Take your time and plan out what you are going to say. Think out the different situations. Try to send staff to the Intreo office somewhat prepared even if you are not sure about what everything.

PickYourName · 12-03-2020 11:06pm

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Forms UP14 (social welfare) and RP9 (redundancy payments acts) are what you need to put full time employees on short time.

https://www.gov.ie/en/service/c20e1b-short-time-work-support/

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/redundancy/lay_off_short_time_working_and_redundancy.html

Even if your employee is not eligible for Short Time Work Support they may be eligible for something else.

You need to think inaginatively about what you can offer, if anything with much reduced staffing and hours.

It is important to move quickly here to observe cash.

Communication with staff is very important. Take your time and plan out what you are going to say. Think out the different situations. Try to send staff to the Intreo office somewhat prepared even if you are not sure about what everything.

That's all very helpful, and much appreciated. Thanks!

BorneTobyWilde · 12-03-2020 11:09pm

Some will need to get a loan to get by, see it as an investment, maybe spend some money on business in process too.

antoinolachtnai · 13-03-2020 9:59am

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Some will need to get a loan to get by, see it as an investment, maybe spend some money on business in process too.

You will need to get creative to figure out how to prop up your cash flow. If you don’t have an established lending relationship with your bank it is going to be difficult to start one now.

But there are options. You really have to look hard at your list of suppliers and creditors to see what can be done.

Please do not delay. This is here for two weeks, absolutely guaranteed. Realistically it is going to stretch well into April and quite likely into May. It is unlikely to be a bumper summer either.

A well known hotel in Dublin 2 is said to have had no guests the night before last. Another very central one seemed to be down below 50 percent. Notices being issued all over the place.

I am not trying to talk down the economy here. Other hospitality type businesses I know will trade on at reduced capacity and you should do that if you can.

Take the steps you need to take, right away.

One other note. This is not the time for a structural reform of your organization. This is a time to support everybody, emotionally and financially as best you can. It is not the time to cut people off.

If you need to restructure, or get rid of that supervisor who isn’t performing or the cashier who is robbing you or whatever, do it, but not now. It’s just not the time.

Darc19 · 13-03-2020 10:45pm

Look at all expenditure

Stop anything that is unnecessary. Eg, pension payments, rates, tslk to landlord, bank loans (banks will give payment holiday)

If very tight hold off vat payments - revenue have stated that no penalties will apply and just a call from your accountant is needed.

Staff, temporary layoffs, maybe if they are important you can assist them with a top up

PickYourName · 14-03-2020 3:05am

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

A well known hotel in Dublin 2 is said to have had no guests the night before last. Another very central one seemed to be down below 50 percent. Notices being issued all over the place.

I'm aware we're far from the worst. It may or may not be the same hotel, but from a direct source I heard that one very well known Dublin 2 hotel has just closed off the three uppermost floors (heating off etc.), forward bookings are close to zero and occupancy well under 50% (at Patrick's week-end!).

Plenty of good advice, by the way and much appreciated.

We met with staff today, to keep them informed. I tried to set up a meeting with the bank when I was in the branch, and was eventually given an 1850 number to ring: the days of building a personal relationship with the bank are obviously long gone. We do have an existing lending relationship with them, by the way. I plan to call Revenue on Monday: I've always found them very reasonable to deal with before, so am reasonably hopeful.

I’d agree it’s a time to pull together: we’re shifting as much as we can from larger to smaller suppliers. It’s only a gesture at our volumes, but it all helps. I’ve heard that the one we’re shifting to has seen a drop of 50% in business; judging by the queues at SuperValu, Musgraves won’t miss the business involved.

Personally, I think it’s going to be devastating to the economy: anything related to tourism in particular, which is a good chunk of the overall economy, is going to be hammered. I know it’s only temporary and economists blithely assert the economy will bounce back, but there will be a lot of damage in the meantime.

Sorry to rant on spreading depression – definitely not my usual demeaner – but it’s very hard to watch it unfold. We've incredible staff and they're very understanding, but so hard to stand in front of them saying what I did today.

OttoPilot · 14-03-2020 3:23am

Not sure if your customers are businesses or consumers but invoice factoring could be an option or using them as collateral for a loan. I know BoI Finance used to offer this to SMEs.

If customers are due refunds, can you offer credit or alternatively explain the situation via email and see if customers will voluntarily defer refunds as a gesture of goodwill. It's a sunk cost to customers so they might play ball in the spirit of 'pulling together' especially if they are irish. Maybe whatever you were selling could be delivered at a later date with an additional 'bonus' for those who dont demand cash refunds. For example, if someone booked a tour, could you upgrade it? Just trying to think outside the box there but difficult when we dont know the specifics. Hopefully that's given you food for thought.

Also, dont be tempted by loan sharks who will no doubt be preying on weakened businesses in the coming months.

rob316 · 14-03-2020 3:31am

I think we will be ok for a while. We are small, diversified enough and do a lot of business in the medical sector. Its still going to seat of the pants stuff I reckon.

Hang in there. Cut any unnecessary expenditure, reduce hours of staff, make sure any supplies you are procuring are at the best and right price, delay rates and talk to the revenue about withholding your returns for now

All the best

PickYourName · 14-03-2020 5:59am

OttoPilot wrote: »

Not sure if your customers are businesses or consumers but invoice factoring could be an option or using them as collateral for a loan. I know BoI Finance used to offer this to SMEs.

Sales are to consumers, so not an option. It's great when times are normal: a max of two days to get cash in and most purchases are on 30 day credit (I ran a B2B company before this, where getting paid is - how can I put this - always a challenge).

OttoPilot wrote: »

If customers are due refunds, can you offer credit or alternatively explain the situation via email and see if customers will voluntarily defer refunds as a gesture of goodwill. It's a sunk cost to customers so they might play ball in the spirit of 'pulling together' especially if they are irish. Maybe whatever you were selling could be delivered at a later date with an additional 'bonus' for those who dont demand cash refunds. For example, if someone booked a tour, could you upgrade it? Just trying to think outside the box there but difficult when we dont know the specifics. Hopefully that's given you food for thought.

Thinking outside the box is great advice - I'd started brainstorming earlier today (actually yesterday now – can’t sleep, so back online). The specifics are we’re a coffee shop/lunch/breakfast place with a customer base of nearby office workers (and schools). They work from home, they’re just not there to purchase. Schools closed, no teachers or parents after dropping off. Sales way down yesterday – the earlier part of the week had actually been relatively OK. There are places far, far worse than us, in particular evening trade. One Pico – a really great restaurant, by the way – put out a Tweet earlier this week to say they were closing (for that night), as they’d literally no bookings.

There’s a very good piece in the IT giving a summary of the impact:

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/cliff-taylor-irish-economy-faces-crisis-as-coronavirus-sucks-out-cash-1.4202278

OttoPilot wrote: »

Also, dont be tempted by loan sharks who will no doubt be preying on weakened businesses in the coming months.

Agree, never.

PickYourName · 14-03-2020 6:11am

One other thing: normally I can’t stand it when particular sectors start whining about how bad they have it and how they need some special deal or whatever (my own industry being well up there at that): just get on with it, like the rest of us. However, I think this is very different. If you are in secure employment, how would you feel if someone tapped you on the shoulder and said: “sorry, but you’re going to have to take one for the team: you're out of a job, with no income, and by the way, there's no jobs in your line of work anywhere else: thanks!”. Nobody died from not getting a coffee and scone on their way to work, but there’s a very real possibility there could be 1,000s or 10s of 1,000s of people dying unnecessarily unless we’re all very careful. The point is right now, a few (I’m thinking of my employees here) are being asked to pay a very high price for trying to prevent that: is that not a price that should be shared?

antoinolachtnai · 14-03-2020 6:56am

This is a very important notice. You do need to read between the lines a bit.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/press-office/press-releases/2020/pr-130320-revenue-announce-measures-to-assist-smes-experiencing-cashflow-difficulties-arising-from-covid-19.aspx

Gloomtastic! · 14-03-2020 1:29pm

Passed Brahms cafe in Marino yesterday, first time I’ve ever seen it empty during the day.

Restaurants round here, Dublin 3, are offering free home delivery. Messages going out via Facebook/Social Media.

Leaflet drop to garages (mechanics)/building sites offering delivery of breakfasts?

OttoPilot · 14-03-2020 1:36pm

PickYourName wrote: »

Sales are to consumers, so not an option. It's great when times are normal: a max of two days to get cash in and most purchases are on 30 day credit (I ran a B2B company before this, where getting paid is - how can I put this - always a challenge).

Thinking outside the box is great advice - I'd started brainstorming earlier today (actually yesterday now – can’t sleep, so back online). The specifics are we’re a coffee shop/lunch/breakfast place with a customer base of nearby office workers (and schools). They work from home, they’re just not there to purchase. Schools closed, no teachers or parents after dropping off. Sales way down yesterday – the earlier part of the week had actually been relatively OK. There are places far, far worse than us, in particular evening trade. One Pico – a really great restaurant, by the way – put out a Tweet earlier this week to say they were closing (for that night), as they’d literally no bookings.

There’s a very good piece in the IT giving a summary of the impact:

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/cliff-taylor-irish-economy-faces-crisis-as-coronavirus-sucks-out-cash-1.4202278

Agree, never.

In that case, I would be looking to your landlord first and foremost. Can they suspend rent for a month in light of the amount of workers working from home. Their property is only worth what you're paying if there is footfall. Dont be afraid to outline that you could be out of business if they dont agree.

jos28 · 14-03-2020 5:39pm

I rang SW to enquire about laying off staff or reducing hours. I've pasted the info below. I was told to bear in mind that there may be a delay in processing claims. AFAIK the 'waiting day' period has been lifted for people with Covid 19 claiming disability, there are no plans to do the same for Jobseekers. Applications can be made online provided the employee has a MYGove account.They just need a letter from you to say they have been laid off/had hours reduced. As an earlier poster pointed out, if reducing hours it's best to arrange working hours so they can claim full days benefit. Working even one hour be day means they cannot claim for that day.

If your employer has no work for you, or less work than usual

Your employer may decide to close their business for this period and send you home. This is called a temporary lay-off. If your employer cannot pay for this period, you can apply for Jobseeker’s Benefit or Jobseeker’s Allowance.

If your employer reduces your hours to 3 days or less per week from your normal full-time hours, you can apply for a payment called Short Time Work Support which is a form of Jobseeker’s Benefit.

Your employer can also put you on short-time working which is a more formal procedure and applies in the following situation:

Due to a reduction in the amount of work to be done, your weekly pay is less than half your normal weekly pay or
Your hours worked are reduced to less than half your normal weekly working hours

PickYourName · 14-03-2020 6:07pm

OttoPilot wrote: »

In that case, I would be looking to your landlord first and foremost. Can they suspend rent for a month in light of the amount of workers working from home. Their property is only worth what you're paying if there is footfall. Dont be afraid to outline that you could be out of business if they dont agree.

Already decided to do this - am going to ask for three months: we'll see what transpires.

PickYourName · 14-03-2020 6:09pm

jos28 wrote: »

I rang SW to enquire about laying off staff or reducing hours. I've pasted the info below.

Many thanks! Is the text you quoted taken from some Web site, and if so where?

jos28 · 14-03-2020 8:45pm

PickYourName wrote: »

Many thanks! Is the text you quoted taken from some Web site, and if so where?

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_during_covid19_restrictions.html

PickYourName · 15-03-2020 1:21am

jos28 wrote: »

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_during_covid19_restrictions.html

Great, thanks!

Trojan · 15-03-2020 8:52am

Super advice & suggestions on this thread.

I spoke with BOI business team on Friday morning and got a 3 month break (pause) on term loan repayments.

I'm going to speak with my accountant Monday about VAT.

I put together some thoughts & suggestions for anyone in B2B professional services sector, which is going to get hit very hard by knock-on effects:

Practical business ideas to deal with COVID-19 impact

Main points:

Call your clients - they are hurting & uncertain
Show them you care - brainstorm some ideas with them about remote work, moving operations online, sales.
Cash flow is key
Send unsent invoices immediately
Pause or cancel non-essential expenses
Pause loan repayments (talk to your bank, and Revenue)
Reduce receivable days
Increase payable days
Discount on case-by-case basis, particularly for expedited payment
Work on sales, ask for referrals (not right this minute, but when things settle down a little)
Remember: This Too Shall Pass. We'll get through it.

Things will be tough for a lot of people out there. They are sick, lonely and scared. Please be as understanding and sympathetic as you can while maintaining a positive mindset.

Keep your head up, and do what you need to do to stay in the game.

PickYourName · 15-03-2020 9:25am

Trojan wrote: »

I put together some thoughts & suggestions for anyone in B2B professional services sector, which is going to get hit very hard by knock-on effects:

Practical business ideas to deal with COVID-19 impact

That's really useful, many thanks.

Although we're B2C, I'm very conscious that our situation has knock-on effects to our suppliers. This is particularly because they are mostly smaller local companies. We started six years ago at the height of the recession and made an effort to try and support local businesses as much as possible. I’ve yet to contact any of them, but will definitely do so tomorrow.

Our current action plan is looking like:

- Follow, and be seen to follow, all govt. health and general advice, with very clear priority of well-being of staff, customers and the business in that order
- This will involve some operational changes, to be implemented immediately
- Contact our bank to suspend loan and leasing payments for three months
- Contact Revenue to see if we can suspend PAYE/PRSI/USC and VAT payments due later this month, situation to be reviewed next month
- Contact landlord to see if we can suspend rent payments for the next three months, with payment to an agreed schedule next year
- Contact key suppliers: details of what we say will depend very much on the state of the account and the size of the supplier. Larger ones will simply be asked to extend credit period from 30 days to something higher; smaller ones will be to discuss payment schedule on current balances owed
- I’ve already agreed to keep staff informed on (at least) a weekly basis

Our situation is not great: we have enough cash in hand to cover net wages for about two weeks, assuming a positive response on all of the above discussions. I don’t want start any week and have people come in working unless I know I’ve cash to pay them: there’s just too much uncertainty we’ll have any income at all (as in France, there’s a possibility our doors might be closed with no warning).

jos28 · 15-03-2020 1:07pm

It really would make a lot of sense if Government could organise some form of subsidy to help employees whose hours have been reduced/cut completely. Most employers are doing their best to keep things going and dread telling staff that they have to impose cuts. People working in creches, hospitality,retail etc will be inundating Dept of Social Welfare with new claims.
Some sort of payment made directly through employers would cut out an enormous amount of admin. Proof could be supplied by employers producing rosters and evidence of reduced takings.
It seems crazy in these strange times to be directing everyone to the normal Social Welfare system.

OttoPilot · 15-03-2020 1:54pm

PickYourName wrote: »

That's really useful, many thanks.

Although we're B2C, I'm very conscious that our situation has knock-on effects to our suppliers. This is particularly because they are mostly smaller local companies. We started six years ago at the height of the recession and made an effort to try and support local businesses as much as possible. I’ve yet to contact any of them, but will definitely do so tomorrow.

Our current action plan is looking like:

- Follow, and be seen to follow, all govt. health and general advice, with very clear priority of well-being of staff, customers and the business in that order
- This will involve some operational changes, to be implemented immediately
- Contact our bank to suspend loan and leasing payments for three months
- Contact Revenue to see if we can suspend PAYE/PRSI/USC and VAT payments due later this month, situation to be reviewed next month
- Contact landlord to see if we can suspend rent payments for the next three months, with payment to an agreed schedule next year
- Contact key suppliers: details of what we say will depend very much on the state of the account and the size of the supplier. Larger ones will simply be asked to extend credit period from 30 days to something higher; smaller ones will be to discuss payment schedule on current balances owed
- I’ve already agreed to keep staff informed on (at least) a weekly basis

Our situation is not great: we have enough cash in hand to cover net wages for about two weeks, assuming a positive response on all of the above discussions. I don’t want start any week and have people come in working unless I know I’ve cash to pay them: there’s just too much uncertainty we’ll have any income at all (as in France, there’s a possibility our doors might be closed with no warning).

Instead of suspending rent to be paid in future, see if they will just waive the rent. As I said, their property is only valuable to you if there is footfall, which there is not. They should bear some of the pain. The worst they can say is no and then you ask for a deferment

PickYourName · 15-03-2020 5:24pm

jos28 wrote: »

It seems crazy in these strange times to be directing everyone to the normal Social Welfare system.

What you're suggesting makes a lot of sense. However, in reality it would take time to get any new system up and running, which is time we don't have. Even if they're imperfect, using the existing structures is realistically the only short-term option. One assumes internal resources will be augmented to help with increased demand, which I agree will be very substantial.

jos28 · 15-03-2020 10:16pm

Did anyone watch Ingrid Miley on RTE news ? It was a bit vague, if employers can pay €203 to each employee they can claim it back. They are launching new simplified forms from what I understood. Who claims ? Individual employees ? The employer en masse ?
Unfortunately I'll be dealing with this tomorrow

Bandara · 15-03-2020 10:26pm

From where I'm looking Lay Off of staff is the best option at this stage, using form RP9 and also notifying the staff member that the lay off will be temporary.

It buys time and allows the staff to get some SW payment to keep them going while the business is closed.

I can't see any other solution that is as painless and transparent as this ? (and not frightening to the staff member). Opinions Welcome

(Below Taken from the RP9 Form)
DEFINITION OF LAY OFF AND SHORT TIME

A lay off situation exists when an employer suspends an employee's employment because there is no work available, when the employer expects the cessation of work to be temporary and when the employer notifies the employee to this effect.

A short time working situation exists when an employer, because he/she has less work available for an employee than is normal, reduces that employee's earnings to less than half the normal week's earnings or reduces the number of hours of work to less than half the normal weekly hours, when the employer expects this reduction to be temporary and when the employer notifies the employee to this effect.

jos28 · 15-03-2020 10:33pm

I've dealt with redundancies and temporary lay offs before and I wouldn't have thought an RP9 is relevant under these circumstances. My concern there would be for employees with less than 2 years service. My understanding is that redundancy only applies where the lay off is permanent.

No info up on any government site yet but I re-watched the news and I got the impression that if employers can manage to pay €203 to each employee, then the employer can claim it back. I wouldn't be too confident of the speed of that payment though

PickYourName · 15-03-2020 10:36pm

Looks like there's reference to it here:

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/612b90-covid-19-information-for-employers/

See "Employer COVID-19 Refund Scheme". No details, though.

jos28 · 15-03-2020 11:36pm

Enough details to keep us going thankfully. This bit negates the need for RP9s
This means that workers retain their link with employers and there is no need for them personally to submit a jobseeker's claim.
Wouldn't be hopefully of a fast refund from SW but all credit due to our Government for setting this up so quickly.
JSB is not taxable so I'm presuming we don't have to run anything through payroll until we are out the other side.

tacofries · 16-03-2020 1:43am

Might help one or two people out:

From the SBCI,

The Department of Business, Enterprise and Innovation has announced a number of business supports to help businesses address the challenges posed by the Covid19 virus. These include the SBCI Covid 19 Working Capital Scheme and the Credit Guarantee Scheme.

The SBCI is currently working to bring the €200m SBCI Covid19 Working Capital Scheme to market as soon as possible. Details of the scheme and eligibility for same are being worked through at present.
In the interim there are SBCI supports currently available to SMEs.

Credit Guarantee Scheme which provides an 80% Government Guarantee for qualifying facilities up to €1m for terms of up to 7 years. It currently carries a 0.5% premium on top of the existing bank loan rate. Full details of the scheme can be found on the SBCI website.

Brexit Loan Scheme also provides an 80% Government Guarantee on loans up to €1.5m for a 3 year term with a fixed interest rate of 4% for Brexit impacted (15% of your business either directly or indirectly exposed to the UK or NI) businesses. If you are Brexit impacted and may not have already availed of the scheme then this could be an option for you. Again full details and an eligibility application form are available on the SBCI website.

Bandara · 16-03-2020 1:54am

Emergency Corona payment document attached. Released tonight and makes a lot of sense.

tacofries · 16-03-2020 11:12am

Bandara wrote: »

Emergency Corona payment document attached. Released tonight and makes a lot of sense.

That's a very fair, easy to fill, form and a good initial response from the government.

Trojan · 16-03-2020 11:13am

Enterprise Ireland: COVID-19 (Coronavirus) Business Response Plan

Specific supports include;
• a €200m Package for Enterprise Supports including a Rescue and Restructuring Scheme
available through Enterprise Ireland for viable but vulnerable firms that need to restructure
or transform their businesses, details of these supports are being finalised
• a €200m Strategic Banking Corporation of Ireland (SBCI) Working Capital scheme for eligible
businesses impacted by COVID-19, further information can be found here
• A Short Time Work Support is available from the Department of Employment Affairs and Social
Protection and is an income support payment for employees who have been temporarily placed
on a shorter working week and is intended to help employers during periods of temporary
difficulty. Further details at www.gov.ie/stws
• “Finance in focus” grant of up to €7,200 available to Enterprise Ireland and Údarás na
Gaeltachta clients to support financial planning
Other Enterprise Ireland/Local Enterprise Office supports including:
• Strategic consultancy grant for SME’s to assist the company development of a strategic
response plan
• Act On Initiative, providing access to 2 days consultancy engagement at no extra cost to assess
Financial Management, Strategic sourcing and transport and logistics advice
• Key Manager Support to provide partial funding towards the recruiting of a Full or Part time
Manager with critical skills for future growth
• Agile Innovation Fund and Operational Excellence Offer
• Be prepared Grant for contingency planning
• Vouchers for business continuity preparedness, innovation and productivity will be available
through Local Enterprise Offices in every local authority area (www.localenterprise.ie) • The Credit Guarantee Scheme is a government supported product from the banks for small and
medium businesses who have difficulty borrowing from their bank. Businesses can apply for loans
of up to €1 million at AIB, Bank of Ireland or Ulster Bank. Loans can be for terms of up to 7 years.
The scheme provides an 80% guarantee to participating banks which are AIB, Bank of Ireland and
Ulster Bank.
• Additional financial supports are available locally through the 31 Local Enterprise Offices
(www.localenterprise.ie) and Microfinance Ireland (www.microfinanceireland.ie). The
maximum loan available from Microfinance Ireland will be increased from €25,000 to
€50,000 as an immediate measure to specifically deal with exceptional circumstances that
micro-enterprises are facing
• Visit www.enterprise-ireland.com/businessresponse for further details on the above supports.

jos28 · 16-03-2020 11:54am

Has anyone got an update on the Employer Refund Scheme? It clearly states that employees do not have to submit a jobseeker's claim. If they are paid €203 how do we account for it? JSB is taxfree, do we run a payroll and put it through as a taxfree payment? Have they released a form for employers to complete showing all the employees they have and will pay the €203 to ?

onedmc · 16-03-2020 12:37pm

jos28 wrote: »

Has anyone got an update on the Employer Refund Scheme? It clearly states that employees do not have to submit a jobseeker's claim. If they are paid €203 how do we account for it? JSB is taxfree, do we run a payroll and put it through as a taxfree payment? Have they released a form for employers to complete showing all the employees they have and will pay the €203 to ?

Yea, I dont get it, do I continue to pay and get a refund or is payment direct to the employee.

OttoPilot · 16-03-2020 12:43pm

onedmc wrote: »

Yea, I dont get it, do I continue to pay and get a refund or is payment direct to the employee.

My understanding is, you pay the employees and draw down on credit facilities if necessary and the govt will refund you. I believe banks have been instructed not to deny requests for borrowing from existing customers.

jos28 · 16-03-2020 2:29pm

We are paying staff their normal pay this week but €203 of that will be refundable from Dept SW. I've just been onto the Revenue Employer helpline and I've been instructed to do the following:
I was instructed to create a category of pay (I called it Covid-19 refund) which is tax,usc and prsi free as per normal dole payments. Put €203 of employee's normal gross into that category and their normal gross is then reduced by the €203. For example, someone with a gross pay of €1000 will now appear on their payslip as Gross pay €727 + Covid payment €203.

I realise this means that employee's net pay will be higher than normal but your P30 payment will be reduced accordingly. If we decide to only pay the €203 per employee next week, they will get the full amount into their hand as they would if they were signing on directly at their Intreo Office.
I hope that makes sense.

PickYourName · 16-03-2020 2:32pm

jos28 wrote: »

We are paying staff their normal pay this week but €203 of that will be refundable from Dept SW. I've just been onto the Revenue Employer helpline and I've been instructed to do the following:
I was instructed to create a category of pay (I called it Covid-19 refund) which is tax,usc and prsi free as per normal dole payments. Put €203 of employee's normal gross into that category and their normal gross is then reduced by the €203. For example, someone with a gross pay of €1000 will now appear on their payslip as Gross pay €727 + Covid payment €203.

I realise this means that employee's net pay will be higher than normal but your P30 payment will be reduced accordingly. If we decide to only pay the €203 per employee next week, they will get the full amount into their hand as they would if they were signing on directly at their Intreo Office.
I hope that makes sense.

That's very useful, thanks! I presume this only applies to people who've actually been laid-off, though, right?

antoinolachtnai · 16-03-2020 2:34pm

There are two separate things:

1. If you lay someone off, they make their claim for immediate assistance using the single-page form.

2. The government doesn't want you to lay people off (and indeed, laying people off would have an implication in relation to redundancy in ordinary times). They want you to instead keep the person on and pay the person 203 euros or more.

This is a time to support people, if you can. It's not just financial support. It's emotional support and leadership.

antoinolachtnai · 16-03-2020 2:38pm

jos28 wrote: »

We are paying staff their normal pay this week but €203 of that will be refundable from Dept SW. I've just been onto the Revenue Employer helpline and I've been instructed to do the following:
I was instructed to create a category of pay (I called it Covid-19 refund) which is tax,usc and prsi free as per normal dole payments. Put €203 of employee's normal gross into that category and their normal gross is then reduced by the €203. For example, someone with a gross pay of €1000 will now appear on their payslip as Gross pay €727 + Covid payment €203.

Do you mean €797+€203?

enricoh · 16-03-2020 3:01pm

Vintners said 50k will be off with pubs closed, hospitality industry say 70k for restaurants etc, creche's, airlines stopping etc etc.
There's gonna be a unbelievable number of jobs culled til this runs its course not including consumer confidence closing the purse strings.

A mate of mine in Hong Kong said the whole Corona virus is history over there now, everything back to square one.
Try to hang in there folks.

PickYourName · 16-03-2020 3:05pm

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

There are two separate things:

1. If you lay someone off, they make their claim for immediate assistance using the single-page form.

2. The government doesn't want you to lay people off (and indeed, laying people off would have an implication in relation to redundancy in ordinary times). They want you to instead keep the person on and pay the person 203 euros or more.

This is a time to support people, if you can. It's not just financial support. It's emotional support and leadership.

OK that helps clarify:

https://www.gov.ie/en/news/965011-covid-19-introduction-of-simplified-unemployment-payments-for-employ/

However, I assume you have to have actually stopped trading, as it says "Where employers, who have to cease trading because of the impact of social distancing, continue to pay workers they will be able to claim refunds from the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection."

Right now, we've closed the doors, but we are hoping to open again if we can figure out a way of operating.

PickYourName · 16-03-2020 3:07pm

enricoh wrote: »

A mate of mine in Hong Kong said the whole Corona virus is history over there now, everything back to square one.
Try to hang in there folks.

Is "back to square one" good or bad news? that is, is it back to "normal" (or something approaching normal) or "back to the stone age" that'll take years to recover from?

Please say it's the former! I really need some positive news right now!

jos28 · 16-03-2020 4:18pm

PickYourName wrote: »

That's very useful, thanks! I presume this only applies to people who've actually been laid-off, though, right?

Laid off or hours significantly reduced

Looking for options if sales collapse due to Coronavirus.

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