Covid 19 PUP - Self-Employed only

mickdw · 04-01-2021 12:33am

How does the self employed 960 limit work for someone who will now be forced onto pup. Say for example, i earned 3k before christmas from self employed work but tomorrows expected return to work cannot happen now.
Does the 960 limit mean i cannot apply for pup for 8 weeks from when i earned 3k or can i apply tomorrow as being unable to work and get paid pup as long as i dont earn 960 over the following 8 weeks.

Dempo1 · 04-01-2021 8:39am

mickdw wrote: »

How does the self employed 960 limit work for someone who will now be forced onto pup. Say for example, i earned 3k before christmas from self employed work but tomorrows expected return to work cannot happen now.
Does the 960 limit mean i cannot apply for pup for 8 weeks from when i earned 3k or can i apply tomorrow as being unable to work and get paid pup as long as i dont earn 960 over the following 8 weeks.

The €960 is applicable onlywhile your claiming PUP as self employed. I'm assuming from your post you closed your PUP claim before Christmas and it's during this time you earned the income referred too. If so, than this income is not relevant.

From the date of new claim the €960 permitted will kick back in over 2 months. You won't (or should not) be penalised for doing the right thing. Important to emphasise though that excess income you mentioned should not have been earned whilst on PUP. Happy New year

mickdw · 04-01-2021 6:57pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

The €960 is applicable onlywhile your claiming PUP as self employed. I'm assuming from your post you closed your PUP claim before Christmas and it's during this time you earned the income referred too. If so, than this income is not relevant.

From the date of new claim the €960 permitted will kick back in over 2 months. You won't (or should not) be penalised for doing the right thing. Important to emphasise though that excess income you mentioned should not have been earned whilst on PUP. Happy New year

Yes, happily working away up to the hols without any welfare.
Things are different now though. Didnt claim yet but will likely need to.

ATC110 · 06-01-2021 11:56am

For anyone whose PUP rate was reduced in June 2020 and then had it rerated to a higher level (based upon their 2019 tax return), how long did it take the arrears due to be paid ?

LegacyUser · 06-01-2021 6:33pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

The €960 is applicable onlywhile your claiming PUP as self employed. I'm assuming from your post you closed your PUP claim before Christmas and it's during this time you earned the income referred too. If so, than this income is not relevant.

From the date of new claim the €960 permitted will kick back in over 2 months. You won't (or should not) be penalised for doing the right thing. Important to emphasise though that excess income you mentioned should not have been earned whilst on PUP. Happy New year

And how about commission that I get now on the sale I did when I was allowed to work?
Is it considered as income for pup purpose?

murphf · 07-01-2021 3:09pm

ATC110 wrote: »

For anyone whose PUP rate was reduced in June 2020 and then had it rerated to a higher level (based upon their 2019 tax return), how long did it take the arrears due to be paid ?

I am still waiting on mine, I applied mid Sept and then didn't get first payment for a month, I am assuming I am entitled to arrears back to the date I replied, and indeed the helpline lady confirmed that yesterday when I rang, however she told me to email the pup earnings check people about it, and I have just now had an email from them saying that they don't deal with it, the helpline people do! :mad:

They also told me to apply for a statement on my welfare which shows arrears and there is nothing there so I guess I am back to ringing the helpline:eek:

ATC110 · 07-01-2021 3:41pm

murphf wrote: »

I am assuming I am entitled to arrears back to the date I replied, and indeed the helpline lady confirmed that yesterday when I rang, however she told me to email the pup earnings check people about it, and I have just now had an email from them saying that they don't deal with it, the helpline people do! :mad:

They also told me to apply for a statement on my welfare which shows arrears and there is nothing there so I guess I am back to ringing the helpline:eek:

To clarify, I am referring to rate differential arrears rather than whole payment arrears.

I was given a similar runaround apropos the rerate email and the helpline. In my experience the helpline can only help with general queries and they often do not have answers to basic questions.

Pickock · 08-01-2021 12:44pm

Is the commission that I get now on the sale I did few months ago considered income for the purpose of PUP even tough I have not done any sale for the last two months?

JB81 · 12-01-2021 3:51pm

Hi There

I just wanted to state some info on my wifes PUP case, in the hope that someone might be able to help or be in the same position.

My wife is self employed. Applied for PUP in March on initial lockdown, and has not been able to trade since.

Around mid April she received the first €350. So four weeks later. Take it as three weeks if there was a week in lieu ( i dont know ), would these 3 weeks be classed as arrears?

When the rates were adjusted she was reduced to the €250 based on her 2018 tax return. At this time we got our 2019 tax return done and submitted and emailed about getting back on the higher rate. She recieved the higher rate again maybe 8-9 weeks after the reduction, so again I assume the €100 per week is classed as arrears?

She has emailed all to the rerate email address and chased and phoned and phoned. At one point she was told there was €900 sitting to be cleared on her account. So we left it.

We then got a letter saying after review/investigation she is not entitled to any arrears!

We cant understand it. Surely if they increased her rate again then we can confirm we were eligible for it all along, just needed to prove 2019 earnings?

The people on the phone cant seem to understand why there was money waiting to be approved and keep telling her that they dont know?

Very confusing,

Sorry for the long tale, but anyone any ideas/help?

JB

upinthesky · 13-01-2021 9:41am

How do you check your income for 2019, first year self employed in 2019 and been reduced to 250, need to check my income, i have paid my tax but how do you get a p21?

upinthesky · 15-01-2021 5:24pm

So I emailed about a review in payment yesterday as I was on 250 per week and should be on a higher rate of 350 according to my 2019 income and received an email today saying I am now on the higher rate of 350, very quick response time!

Bocking 14 · 15-01-2021 5:34pm

upinthesky wrote: »

So I emailed about a review in payment yesterday as I was on 250 per week and should be on a higher rate of 350 according to my 2019 income and received an email today saying I am now on the higher rate of 350, very quick response time!

Were the rerated arrears mentioned? I was rerated in December and still waiting on rerate arrears from July to December

upinthesky · 15-01-2021 5:37pm

Bocking 14 wrote: »

Were the rerated arrears mentioned? I was rerated in December and still waiting on rerate arrears from July to December

For me it would only be last weeks but they added this at the end of the email, I will know on Tuesday when I receive payment if arrears will be added..

“ Regarding arrears, You can check your arrears status on MyWelfare”

Bocking 14 · 15-01-2021 6:48pm

upinthesky wrote: »

“ Regarding arrears, You can check your arrears status on MyWelfare”

Can I ask how you had so little rerate arrears considering the rate was reduced in July?

The same was stated in my email but those arrears are full weeks owed rather than rerated differential arrears.

upinthesky · 15-01-2021 9:14pm

Bocking 14 wrote: »

Can I ask how you had so little rerate arrears considering the rate was reduced in July?

The same was stated in my email but those arrears are full weeks owed rather than rerated differential arrears.

I went of payment in November and this is my first week back not sure when they would give you arrears from, I just assume it’s the first week of 2021?

Bocking 14 · 25-01-2021 8:58pm

...

murphf · 26-01-2021 12:02pm

I’ve just been on to the helpline (AGAIN!) about my arrears (no Payment at all for a month from application to first payment)
He asked me to send in a bank statement to prove my last payment. I have a couple of small payments in during that time from PayPal and my credit
Card processors which were earned before I applied but only hit My bank account during this time .. will
This be ok do you think? It was sept into Oct. Which I think was before the €980
Limit came in .. was there anything allowed back then ?

26-01-2021 5:46pm

Has anyone here (self employed) come off PUP and onto the part-time €128 payment instead?

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_and_work/part_time_job_incentive_scheme_for_self_employed.html

I'm considering it, but not sure if im being a bit optimistic. and if things don't pan out it doesnt appear to be easy to revert back to PUP..

26-01-2021 5:58pm

murphf wrote: »

I’ve just been on to the helpline (AGAIN!) about my arrears (no Payment at all for a month from application to first payment)
He asked me to send in a bank statement to prove my last payment. I have a couple of small payments in during that time from PayPal and my credit
Card processors which were earned before I applied but only hit My bank account during this time .. will
This be ok do you think? It was sept into Oct. Which I think was before the €980
Limit came in .. was there anything allowed back then ?

If they give you hassle for that, then I'll be going to prison.

I've been paid regularly during my time on PUP, but it's because i worked before PUP. Between sending in invoices and waiting for payments to arrive, most of my payments from work landed when I was sitting at home scratching my hole.

I'd say many, many people are in the same boat. I can't see them giving you hassle for that.

Senature · 27-01-2021 1:22am

Deleted User wrote: »

Has anyone here (self employed) come off PUP and onto the part-time €128 payment instead?

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_and_work/part_time_job_incentive_scheme_for_self_employed.html

I'm considering it, but not sure if im being a bit optimistic. and if things don't pan out it doesnt appear to be easy to revert back to PUP..

Yes I have. I was only on PUP for 5-6 weeks when I got more work so was going to be earning over the threshold for PUP. Transition was smooth enough. That payment is a more manual operation than PUP. Need to print and post the form to apply, and send in another form every four weeks stating that you are working less than 24 hours per week.

Snow_White1987 · 17-02-2021 6:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If they give you hassle for that, then I'll be going to prison.

I've been paid regularly during my time on PUP, but it's because i worked before PUP. Between sending in invoices and waiting for payments to arrive, most of my payments from work landed when I was sitting at home scratching my hole.

I'd say many, many people are in the same boat. I can't see them giving you hassle for that.

Same here, some I received for work completed 3 months earlier with no indication if/when I'd be paid again!

I'd say that's why most self-employed stay on the PUP – it isn't that they don't have anything coming in, it's that they have no idea if/when they'll get the next invoice paid to them.

I'm doing my tax now and am coming off PUP as it's just easier to from a tax point of view – I took a hit and with expenses etc earned much less than usual for 2020 so the PUP was a life-saver. I can't imagine many self employed stopping PUP on the basis of getting some funds in – as long as you're not netting 4k and also claiming the funds! LOL If only I could earn that a month

ATC110 · 23-02-2021 8:59pm

I received an extra payment today but it was not the correct amount of the rerate arrears plus this week's payment.

Did anyone else receive an extra payment and was it the right amount?

upinthesky · 24-02-2021 11:07am

ATC110 wrote: »

I received an extra payment today but it was not the correct amount of the rerate arrears plus this week's payment.

Did anyone else receive an extra payment and was it the right amount?

Ye also received arrears payment and weekly payment but mine was correct.

case885 · 26-02-2021 6:47pm

I’m self employed and lost out in work back in November and decided to hold off applying as I thought I’d get back into work quick. If I applied today is payment from today’s date even if I stopped working the start of November?

ATC110 · 06-03-2021 1:42pm

Has anyone received an email asking them to confirm their eligibility again?

ATC110 · 06-03-2021 1:44pm

Has anyone received an email recently from MyWefare stating “You need to confirm your eligibility for Pandemic Unemployment Payment to continue to receive this payment“ ?

sharkman · 06-03-2021 2:54pm

ATC110 wrote: »

Has anyone received an email recently from MyWefare stating “You need to confirm your eligibility for Pandemic Unemployment Payment to continue to receive this payment“ ?

Yes , got it today.

mystic · 06-03-2021 3:58pm

It's to check that people are still eligible for the payment. https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/66d22e-covid-19-deasp-information-for-employers-and-employees-pdf/

mystic · 06-03-2021 3:59pm

https://www.gov.ie/en/service/c77da-pandemic-unemployment-payment-confirmation/

Dempo1 · 06-03-2021 4:15pm

ATC110 wrote: »

Has anyone received an email recently from MyWefare stating “You need to confirm your eligibility for Pandemic Unemployment Payment to continue to receive this payment“ ?

Yes me too

beertons · 06-03-2021 5:22pm

Same here. I just had to say I wasn't back to work yet.

Dempo1 · 06-03-2021 5:26pm

beertons wrote: »

Same here. I just had to say I wasn't back to work yet.

It supposed to take 5 minutes, I click confirm address, went to second bit, just thought it was confirming T&C"s, clicked and completed, hope I've not messed it up, recieved 2nd email thanking me for confirming eligibility, if anything further required an officer will be in touch. Hopefully I've completed correctly.

Carnmore · 06-03-2021 10:36pm

Was everyone just asked to confirm address on first page then sign the T&C on the second page?

Dempo1 · 06-03-2021 10:52pm

Carnmore wrote: »

Was everyone just asked to confirm address on first page then sign the T&C on the second page?

I was, I actually thought I'd made an error, was expecting more questions but it seems that was it, I recieved a second email thanking me for confirming eligibility and if anything further required, an officer would be in touch. I checked back on last eligibility check around July, pretty much the same confirmation etc,

06-03-2021 11:23pm

Carnmore wrote: »

Was everyone just asked to confirm address on first page then sign the T&C on the second page?

Yup here too.

mille100piedi · 07-03-2021 12:24pm

I have been asked to confirm that I am genuinely seeking work. I don't want to change my career, I was thinking PUP is a support for employer that are not able to open their business during the pandemic?

Dempo1 · 07-03-2021 12:51pm

mille100piedi wrote: »

I have been asked to confirm that I am genuinely seeking work. I don't want to change my career, I was thinking PUP is a support for employer that are not able to open their business during the pandemic?

This condition was added as part of criteria, by default accept you are, if your an employee laid off, your in essence waiting to be called back, if your self employed your seeking work etc etc.

I presume this is on page 2? To be honest I just thought it was T&C, clicked and thought questions come next.

I wonder if I coukd ask a favor if you've not completed, any chance of a screen shot of that page? Maybe PM me, just curious as I didn't read it fully and once submitted, I can't reopen.

mille100piedi · 07-03-2021 12:55pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

This condition was added as part of criteria, by default accept you are, if your an employee laid off, your in essence waiting to be called back, if your self employed your seeking work etc etc.

I presume this is on page 2? To be honest I just thought it was T&C, clicked and thought questions come next.

I wonder if I coukd ask a favor if you've not completed, any chance of a screen shot of that page? Maybe PM me, just curious as I didn't read it fully and once submitted, I can't reopen.

Unfortunately I have already submitted the form, I am sure the other time there was not such requirement. I was surprise about this

Dempo1 · 07-03-2021 1:01pm

mille100piedi wrote: »

Unfortunately I have already submitted the form, I am sure the other time there was not such requirement. I was surprise about this

No problem, yes I too quite surprised how little was required, thanks

ari101 · 07-03-2021 1:07pm

To be genuinely seeking work has been a PUP requirement since end July 2020.

However, clarified guidance issued late last year meaning, for people whose job is not permanently gone, there is no need to look for alternatives immediately:

"The new regulations state that a person will not be required to seek employment outside that occupation or employment for the period of 12 months after first claiming the Covid PUP where:

-a person’s opportunity to work in their normal occupation is temporarily limited and they have a reasonable expectation of returning to that occupation, or
-a person has a reasonable expectation of returning to their former employment,"

https://www.flac.ie/news/2020/12/10/flac-welcomes-the-clarification-of-genuinely-seeki/

Dempo1 · 07-03-2021 1:16pm

ari101 wrote: »

To be genuinely seeking work has been a PUP requirement since end July 2020.

However, clarified guidance issued late last year meaning, for people whose job is not permanently gone, there is no need to look for alternatives immediately:

"The new regulations state that a person will not be required to seek employment outside that occupation or employment for the period of 12 months after first claiming the Covid PUP where:

-a person’s opportunity to work in their normal occupation is temporarily limited and they have a reasonable expectation of returning to that occupation, or
-a person has a reasonable expectation of returning to their former employment,"

https://www.flac.ie/news/2020/12/10/flac-welcomes-the-clarification-of-genuinely-seeki/

All correct but it's a yes or no answer and I'm not sure if it's been clarified.

Unfortunately I didn't read the 2nd page fully and carefully so unsure if it had seperate questions that had to be ticked or was it a number of questions with one accept all you click. I had big thumb syndrome

Butterbear · 09-03-2021 10:28pm

Really great thread here. Delighted to discover.

Has anyone else appealed to the Social Welfare Appeals Office? My husband is a sole trader and his rate was cut to 300e in October. We appealed to PUP Rerate. They rejected it stating his 2019 net income didn't meet the threshold. He does not have any capital allowances, just regular tax-deductible expenses. So, we argued his gross income should have been taken into account, not his net. We appealed to the SW Appeals office on 10 December 2020.
1. Has anyone sucessfully argued the above (to PUP rerate team or SW Appeals Office)?
2. If you appealed to the SW Appeals Office how long did it take and were you sucessful?

Thanks all!

To add: we successfully had his rate reinstated in summer 2020 after filing his 2019 ITR. Lots of back and forth. This is so frustrating! He works in event production which will be one of the last industries to return so the PUP is important for him and the difference is large - about 2k.

Butterbear · 09-03-2021 10:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yup here too.

Yep.

hatrickpatrick · 10-03-2021 1:28pm

Does anyone happen to know how capital gains interact with PUP eligibility? Apologies if this deserves its own thread, I imagine it's only relevant to self-employed people hence posting it in here, but will split it off into its own thread if ye advise as such.

Essentially, I've been on the PUP as a self-employed musician and freelance marketing agent since last March (Practically all of my income came from pub gigs and busking on the music front, and handing out flyers, surveys, promoting club nights at weekends, etc on the marketing front, all of which is obviously out until we're down to at least level two) and have had no issues confirming this with DSP.

I hopped on board the GameStop stock trading frenzy for the craic with some money I had had put aside last summer for the purposes of festival and gig tickets, around €500. That investment is now worth around €3,000 and looks set to continue increasing for at least the next couple of days.

What I'm a little concerned about is this: If and when I sell these shares, will any gains made count as "income" under the PUP and thereby result in a disqualification? I really only jumped on board as a means of screwing the system (the GameStop saga was primarily driven by a desire by the retail trading mob to screw over a short selling hedge fund by squatting on the shares they needed to buy back) and didn't actually consider it remotely likely that I'd be seeing any of this money back, I assumed the price would plummet after the squeeze and stay there, but considered it worthwhile from the ideological perspective. A front row seat to the collapse of a predatory hedge fund seemed a decent alternative to Electric Picnic

So does anyone happen to know, am I essentially locked in to holding these shares until such a time as their value decreases again below the threshold for bi-monthly earnings while retaining the PUP, which I believe is currently in the region of €900? Or are capital gains from buying and selling things treated separately from employment income in determining whether one remains eligible for the payment?

Snow_White1987 · 16-03-2021 12:45am

Hi all,

Has anyone here successfully applied for the Covid-19 Part Time Job Incentive for the Self Employed and did it take long to get?

My PUP is now closed (closed last Friday but I got what I think is my final payment last Tuesday) as I was earning slightly over the €980 but still not back to full time work as self employed so thinking of applying for this as it would really help.

Do you have to fill out a time sheet every week and post it back? I definitely don’t work over 24 hours a week at the moment which is why I’m thinking of applying...

Thanks in advance for any info on this.

Snow_White1987 · 16-03-2021 7:51pm

Senature wrote: »

Yes I have. I was only on PUP for 5-6 weeks when I got more work so was going to be earning over the threshold for PUP. Transition was smooth enough. That payment is a more manual operation than PUP. Need to print and post the form to apply, and send in another form every four weeks stating that you are working less than 24 hours per week.

Can I ask how long it took you to be awarded that payment?

I applied electronically today (you could edit the PDF with your details and use an electronic signature) and emailed it to my local intreo office. Only technically, it looks like you have to still be on the PUP when you apply, I'm literally just off it so I don't know if that'll hinder me – it's also why I emailed my stuff over as it's a BH with Paddy's Day and the post will only delay me more!

Very nice man on the helpline said if they were finicky about the date, to go back on PUP for literally a week, reapply for part-time payment again and close PUP straight away, but it seems very messy so I'm hoping I'll still get awarded it!

He said so few were on that particular payment that he didn't know too much about it.

Senature · 17-03-2021 1:07am

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

Can I ask how long it took you to be awarded that payment?

I applied electronically today (you could edit the PDF with your details and use an electronic signature) and emailed it to my local intreo office. Only technically, it looks like you have to still be on the PUP when you apply, I'm literally just off it so I don't know if that'll hinder me – it's also why I emailed my stuff over as it's a BH with Paddy's Day and the post will only delay me more!

Very nice man on the helpline said if they were finicky about the date, to go back on PUP for literally a week, reapply for part-time payment again and close PUP straight away, but it seems very messy so I'm hoping I'll still get awarded it!

He said so few were on that particular payment that he didn't know too much about it.

It was awarded almost immediately, I can't remember the exact time frame. I think I closed my PUP claim and then applied the next day. At the time the rule was that you needed to be claiming PUP the week before you applied to qualify. Fingers crossed for you.

Snow_White1987 · 17-03-2021 11:42am

Senature wrote: »

It was awarded almost immediately, I can't remember the exact time frame. I think I closed my PUP claim and then applied the next day. At the time the rule was that you needed to be claiming PUP the week before you applied to qualify. Fingers crossed for you.

Thanks so much for the reply! Did they notify you letting you know you were successful can you remember? Or did the funds just appear in your bank account? Also, is it paid on a Tuesday the same as the PUP?

My claim was closed, I received my last payment last Tuesday and applied yesterday so I’m a few days out I think - I literally only realised I was eligible for this one when I rang the COVID helpline yesterday!

I’m mainly worried about the 7 day gap working against me but I’m hoping they might overlook it as it’s only a few days...

I was told to re-apply for PUP if I’m refused it, stay on it for even one week and re-apply for the PTSE straight away then close PUP again but hoping I don’t have to do all that.

I presume it’s also a taxable payment like PUP?

So sorry about all the questions, there’s just not a lot on it at the moment!

ATC110 · 24-03-2021 3:35pm

Has anyone received the balance of rerate arrears yet?

The February payment was for up until November 2020

Snow_White1987 · 03-06-2021 5:02pm

ATC110 wrote: »

Has anyone received the balance of rerate arrears yet?

The February payment was for up until November 2020

I received an arrears payment in Late February, actually just before I closed my PUP application.

I'm not sure when if they are planning similar payments again.

Covid 19 PUP - Self-Employed only

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