Covid 19 PUP - Self-Employed only

beertons wrote: »

Same here. I just had to say I wasn't back to work yet.

It supposed to take 5 minutes, I click confirm address, went to second bit, just thought it was confirming T&C"s, clicked and completed, hope I've not messed it up, recieved 2nd email thanking me for confirming eligibility, if anything further required an officer will be in touch. Hopefully I've completed correctly.

Carnmore wrote: »

Was everyone just asked to confirm address on first page then sign the T&C on the second page?

I was, I actually thought I'd made an error, was expecting more questions but it seems that was it, I recieved a second email thanking me for confirming eligibility and if anything further required, an officer would be in touch. I checked back on last eligibility check around July, pretty much the same confirmation etc,

I have been asked to confirm that I am genuinely seeking work. I don't want to change my career, I was thinking PUP is a support for employer that are not able to open their business during the pandemic?

Dempo1 wrote: »

This condition was added as part of criteria, by default accept you are, if your an employee laid off, your in essence waiting to be called back, if your self employed your seeking work etc etc.

I presume this is on page 2? To be honest I just thought it was T&C, clicked and thought questions come next.

I wonder if I coukd ask a favor if you've not completed, any chance of a screen shot of that page? Maybe PM me, just curious as I didn't read it fully and once submitted, I can't reopen.

Unfortunately I have already submitted the form, I am sure the other time there was not such requirement. I was surprise about this

To be genuinely seeking work has been a PUP requirement since end July 2020.

However, clarified guidance issued late last year meaning, for people whose job is not permanently gone, there is no need to look for alternatives immediately:

"The new regulations state that a person will not be required to seek employment outside that occupation or employment for the period of 12 months after first claiming the Covid PUP where:

-a person’s opportunity to work in their normal occupation is temporarily limited and they have a reasonable expectation of returning to that occupation, or
-a person has a reasonable expectation of returning to their former employment,"

https://www.flac.ie/news/2020/12/10/flac-welcomes-the-clarification-of-genuinely-seeki/

Really great thread here. Delighted to discover.

Has anyone else appealed to the Social Welfare Appeals Office? My husband is a sole trader and his rate was cut to 300e in October. We appealed to PUP Rerate. They rejected it stating his 2019 net income didn't meet the threshold. He does not have any capital allowances, just regular tax-deductible expenses. So, we argued his gross income should have been taken into account, not his net. We appealed to the SW Appeals office on 10 December 2020.
1. Has anyone sucessfully argued the above (to PUP rerate team or SW Appeals Office)?
2. If you appealed to the SW Appeals Office how long did it take and were you sucessful?

Thanks all!

To add: we successfully had his rate reinstated in summer 2020 after filing his 2019 ITR. Lots of back and forth. This is so frustrating! He works in event production which will be one of the last industries to return so the PUP is important for him and the difference is large - about 2k.

Does anyone happen to know how capital gains interact with PUP eligibility? Apologies if this deserves its own thread, I imagine it's only relevant to self-employed people hence posting it in here, but will split it off into its own thread if ye advise as such.

Essentially, I've been on the PUP as a self-employed musician and freelance marketing agent since last March (Practically all of my income came from pub gigs and busking on the music front, and handing out flyers, surveys, promoting club nights at weekends, etc on the marketing front, all of which is obviously out until we're down to at least level two) and have had no issues confirming this with DSP.

I hopped on board the GameStop stock trading frenzy for the craic with some money I had had put aside last summer for the purposes of festival and gig tickets, around €500. That investment is now worth around €3,000 and looks set to continue increasing for at least the next couple of days.

What I'm a little concerned about is this: If and when I sell these shares, will any gains made count as "income" under the PUP and thereby result in a disqualification? I really only jumped on board as a means of screwing the system (the GameStop saga was primarily driven by a desire by the retail trading mob to screw over a short selling hedge fund by squatting on the shares they needed to buy back) and didn't actually consider it remotely likely that I'd be seeing any of this money back, I assumed the price would plummet after the squeeze and stay there, but considered it worthwhile from the ideological perspective. A front row seat to the collapse of a predatory hedge fund seemed a decent alternative to Electric Picnic

So does anyone happen to know, am I essentially locked in to holding these shares until such a time as their value decreases again below the threshold for bi-monthly earnings while retaining the PUP, which I believe is currently in the region of €900? Or are capital gains from buying and selling things treated separately from employment income in determining whether one remains eligible for the payment?

Senature wrote: »

Yes I have. I was only on PUP for 5-6 weeks when I got more work so was going to be earning over the threshold for PUP. Transition was smooth enough. That payment is a more manual operation than PUP. Need to print and post the form to apply, and send in another form every four weeks stating that you are working less than 24 hours per week.

Can I ask how long it took you to be awarded that payment?

I applied electronically today (you could edit the PDF with your details and use an electronic signature) and emailed it to my local intreo office. Only technically, it looks like you have to still be on the PUP when you apply, I'm literally just off it so I don't know if that'll hinder me – it's also why I emailed my stuff over as it's a BH with Paddy's Day and the post will only delay me more!

Very nice man on the helpline said if they were finicky about the date, to go back on PUP for literally a week, reapply for part-time payment again and close PUP straight away, but it seems very messy so I'm hoping I'll still get awarded it!

He said so few were on that particular payment that he didn't know too much about it.

Senature wrote: »

It was awarded almost immediately, I can't remember the exact time frame. I think I closed my PUP claim and then applied the next day. At the time the rule was that you needed to be claiming PUP the week before you applied to qualify. Fingers crossed for you.

Thanks so much for the reply! Did they notify you letting you know you were successful can you remember? Or did the funds just appear in your bank account? Also, is it paid on a Tuesday the same as the PUP?

My claim was closed, I received my last payment last Tuesday and applied yesterday so I’m a few days out I think - I literally only realised I was eligible for this one when I rang the COVID helpline yesterday!

I’m mainly worried about the 7 day gap working against me but I’m hoping they might overlook it as it’s only a few days...

I was told to re-apply for PUP if I’m refused it, stay on it for even one week and re-apply for the PTSE straight away then close PUP again but hoping I don’t have to do all that.

I presume it’s also a taxable payment like PUP?

So sorry about all the questions, there’s just not a lot on it at the moment!

ATC110 wrote: »

Has anyone received the balance of rerate arrears yet?

The February payment was for up until November 2020

I received an arrears payment in Late February, actually just before I closed my PUP application.

I'm not sure when if they are planning similar payments again.

mallowgarry wrote: »

I was owed two full months PUP (September - November 2020), then only awarded €250 rate (I had been on €350/week prior to September, but returned to self-employment for two weeks), so was re-rated downwards.

Kept emailing PUP-Rerate and PUP-Earnings Check, and was turned down each time.

After being turned down by PUP-Rerate for the fifth time in May 2021, I replied to the email, stating that I wished to formally appeal the decision.
I then received a letter in the post from the Social Welfare Appeals office, with a reference number.
After 20? days, I received an email from a PUP office, saying they hadn't received any paperwork from me, and asked if I wished to close my appeal.

I replied (very politely), stating that I had emailed details of my earnings, for 2018, 2019 and 2020 as per Revenue to various PUP email addresses, I had been in touch with the Ombudsman as SW Appeals had informed me the PUP was not appealable.
I filled a large envelope with 26 pages of emails, details of earnings etc., mailed it to the address provided on a Friday.

On the following Monday, I received an email stating that yes, it would appear that my earnings had been assessed incorrectly, and that I should have been on the €350 rate all along.

Almost €5,000 was lodged to my account last Wednesday, and I am now on the €350 rate.

My message to anyone else - if you feel you have been wrongly rated, and repeatedly fobbed off, reply to an email and state you wish to make a formal appeal against that decision.
It seems to escalate the decision making from a temporary civil servant up to a Deciding Officer and they seem less inclined to issue the fob-off emails.
Keep trying!

What an astonishing story and fair play for sticking at it, it really makes you wonder how many out there have been under paid.

PUPThrowaway wrote: »

Did anyone else get an email or notification this week about an upcoming phone call from an SW officer regarding up-skilling or re-training? One other self-employed PUP recipient I know got one too, so I'm wondering is this a blanket self-employed thing. I'm a little concerned as to whether this is essentially the same 'activation' process as is used for those receiving JSA or JSB, and whether they're about to start trying to push us into switching careers or joining JobPath/Seetec/Turas Nua etc.

In my case I'm very hopeful that my industry (live performance) will be returning by the end of the summer as per recent government commentary and I've actually recently bought some new equipment in expectation of that - I wonder if showing them the receipts for same would indicate that I'm very much intending to resume my pre-covid self-employment as soon as the restrictions on it are lifted? They mention free courses one can study, which I'm currently looking through to see if there's anything relevant, but I'm very much not interested in being pressured into switching careers because they're essentially trying to bully people off the PUP - not suggesting that this is what's happening here, just a worry I have based on recent reporting around how the payment is going to be phased out.

The fact that they're going to call me unsolicited instead of leaving me to engage myself implies that this is more of a coercive measure than something that's intended to actually be helpful. Perhaps I'm being too cynical with regard to the government?

The email is as follows:

Dear Customer
We are contacting people in receipt of a Pandemic Unemployment Payment to advise them of the range of supports and services available to help those that are out of work, want to change careers, retrain or upskill.
An officer of the Department will contact you by phone during business hours in the week commencing 28th June 2021.
In the meantime, here are some things you can do:

Register with JobsIreland This is a free recruitment service for both jobseekers and employers. As well as helping jobseekers find new jobs, this website provides useful career advice, tips on CV and interview preparation.


Access the Employment and Training website which provides information on the range of services and supports available to get jobseekers back into work, participate in employment support and work placement schemes, upskill or retrain.


Access the Right Course website containing information on further education and training opportunities to learn new skills, update your skills or find a new direction. Most of these courses are Government-funded and free of charge.

We look forward to talking to you.

Yours sincerely
Employment Support Services

Income Support Helpline: 1890 800 024

Responded earlier on the other thread you posted in, this process commenced over a month ago, was flagged in the customer notices section on the SW website, it is not specific to self employed, all claimants could potentially get the call, many have.

It's perfectly civil, reaching out, advising supports are there etc, no personal info being asked for such as PPSN numbers, DOB etc, not very probing.

Dempo1 wrote: »

Responded earlier on the other thread you posted in, this process commenced over a month ago, was flagged in the customer notices section on the SW website, it is not specific to self employed, all claimants could potentially get the call, many have.

It's perfectly civil, reaching out, advising supports are there etc, no personal info being asked for such as PPSN numbers, DOB etc, not very probing.

I think we’ve reached the time in this pandemic where the government want to try and claw back every cent they can unfortunately!

Almost anyone I know on any government DSP payment is being called in for review and they’ll try anything in this way with PUP too I think.

I think it’ll get messy down the line but I hope I’m wrong!

PUPThrowaway wrote: »

Did anyone else get an email or notification this week about an upcoming phone call from an SW officer regarding up-skilling or re-training? One other self-employed PUP recipient I know got one too, so I'm wondering is this a blanket self-employed thing. I'm a little concerned as to whether this is essentially the same 'activation' process as is used for those receiving JSA or JSB, and whether they're about to start trying to push us into switching careers or joining JobPath/Seetec/Turas Nua etc.

In my case I'm very hopeful that my industry (live performance) will be returning by the end of the summer as per recent government commentary and I've actually recently bought some new equipment in expectation of that - I wonder if showing them the receipts for same would indicate that I'm very much intending to resume my pre-covid self-employment as soon as the restrictions on it are lifted? They mention free courses one can study, which I'm currently looking through to see if there's anything relevant, but I'm very much not interested in being pressured into switching careers because they're essentially trying to bully people off the PUP - not suggesting that this is what's happening here, just a worry I have based on recent reporting around how the payment is going to be phased out.

The fact that they're going to call me unsolicited instead of leaving me to engage myself implies that this is more of a coercive measure than something that's intended to actually be helpful. Perhaps I'm being too cynical with regard to the government?

The email is as follows:

Dear Customer
We are contacting people in receipt of a Pandemic Unemployment Payment to advise them of the range of supports and services available to help those that are out of work, want to change careers, retrain or upskill.
An officer of the Department will contact you by phone during business hours in the week commencing 28th June 2021.
In the meantime, here are some things you can do:

Register with JobsIreland This is a free recruitment service for both jobseekers and employers. As well as helping jobseekers find new jobs, this website provides useful career advice, tips on CV and interview preparation.


Access the Employment and Training website which provides information on the range of services and supports available to get jobseekers back into work, participate in employment support and work placement schemes, upskill or retrain.


Access the Right Course website containing information on further education and training opportunities to learn new skills, update your skills or find a new direction. Most of these courses are Government-funded and free of charge.

We look forward to talking to you.

Yours sincerely
Employment Support Services

Income Support Helpline: 1890 800 024

We had an Airbnb and before the lockdown was working very well for us. We also received the phone call and they ask us if we want to open our business again. Our business is open but nobody is booking because we work with foreign tourists, I think they are pushing us to close our business because they know the tourist industry is forever dead.