Old Greystones

Son of Jack · 14-11-2008 11:13pm

Great idea for a thread Sagat.

PixbyJohn, would you by any chance know or could you speculate why Charlesland is called Charlesland?

I've wondered for a while and made several inquiries but have drawn a blank.

Thanks.

pixbyjohn · 14-11-2008 11:55pm

Son of Jack wrote: »

Great idea for a thread Sagat.

PixbyJohn, would you by any chance know or could you speculate why Charlesland is called Charlesland?

I've wondered for a while and made several inquiries but have drawn a blank.

Thanks.

Hi, I really don't know where the name originated but the lands where all the new development is now was farmlands owned by Evans and it was called Charlesland farm. Maybe I can get some info at a future time. The lands where the other Evans family lived was called Farrankelly (where Rodney Evans Motors is now ) and on Priory road there is another Evans farm.

I agree that this is a good thread and hopefully there are others out there who can come up with some more details.

Son of Jack · 15-11-2008 12:27pm

Thanks for that PixbyJohn. So perhaps one of the Evans family was a Charles?

Knowing the local history of the area one lives in, gives one a 'sense of place' even for relative newcomers like myself.

daraghm · 16-11-2008 12:43pm

Son of Jack wrote: »

Great idea for a thread Sagat.

PixbyJohn, would you by any chance know or could you speculate why Charlesland is called Charlesland?

I've wondered for a while and made several inquiries but have drawn a blank.

Thanks.

Charlesland is the name of the townland that the estate is built on.

Not sure where I got this, but it's an old map of the general greystones area from the c. 1830's - the time of the first official OS mapping of the country, the first of it's kind in the world at the time I believe in terms of detail etc.

You'll see Delgany was much bigger than Greystones at the time (as was killincarrig), the coast guard at the bottom of what is now applewood heights, crispins cell shown as a church in ruins, one road in to town (school house the only building of note). The road down to the crispins (the grove) didn't even exist, and you got down to it from a lane further to the north (fox's lane i think it's called now).

Anyway, you'll see Charlesland boarded to the north by Three Trout stream, and to the west by the coast road to kilcoole.

I remember seeing a copy of the next revision of OS mapping (late 1800's or early 1900's) and it was amazing how much it had changed.

Son of Jack · 16-11-2008 2:46pm

Thanks for that darraghm. The name Charlesland obviously goes a good way back then. Certainly the area has changed hugely.

MyPerfectCousin · 16-11-2008 6:49pm

Son of Jack wrote: »

The name Charlesland obviously goes a good way back then.

Probably named after some old king or other, no?

drag0n79 · 17-11-2008 12:04pm

daraghm wrote: »

Not sure where I got this, but it's an old map of the general greystones area from the c. 1830's - the time of the first official OS mapping of the country, the first of it's kind in the world at the time I believe in terms of detail etc.

...

I remember seeing a copy of the next revision of OS mapping (late 1800's or early 1900's) and it was amazing how much it had changed.

The library used to have old OS maps of the area. I'm sure they're still there if people are interested.

DUBACC · 17-11-2008 1:22pm

Ah Lautrex!! Where the wife and I met back in the early 90's!

Fiachra2 · 17-11-2008 3:39pm

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Do you remember being asked on the Monday if you went to Mass on the Saturday after the Friday confession ?
2nd Class, Br. Walsh. 3rd Class Br. ? 4th class, Br Donovan. 5th class Br. Brierton " Charlie". 6th class, Br. King or Chewy. There was also Master Ryle.

Does anyone remember the First Holy Communion breakfast in Killians hall after the mass.

You must be round even longer than me! I came in the late 60's.Br Donovan was still there and a Br Herren as well a floyd. all the others were Lay techers including Gerry O'Sullivan who was Headmaster until not that long ago.

They axed the comunion breakfast just before I made mine. My Brother was at it and I have some photos.

Regarding Charlesland, most townland names are corruptions of Irish names so it is unlikely there was any charles involved.

And to get really old what about Sr. Lucey and Miss Neelan in St. Brigets?!!

sagat · 17-11-2008 8:32pm

drag0n79 wrote: »

The library used to have old OS maps of the area. I'm sure they're still there if people are interested.

Would love to see the later map if anyone has a copy. Does anyone know what year Killincarrig House (now the Golf Club) fell into disuse/ruin and why? I remember strolling around it not many years before the club restored it, while the house looked like it had been abandoned for a while many of the surviving fixtures inside appeared fairly modern.

Lance Vance · 17-11-2008 9:45pm

Son of Jack wrote: »

Great idea for a thread Sagat.

PixbyJohn, would you by any chance know or could you speculate why Charlesland is called Charlesland?

I've wondered for a while and made several inquiries but have drawn a blank.

Thanks.

Charlesland may mean the land of the peasant man, coming from the English word churl. The word churl comes from an old English word ceorl, which means freeman of the lowest class.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/churl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churl

Son of Jack · 17-11-2008 10:49pm

Thanks for that Lance Vance. That seems entirely plausible and certainly the wikipedia entry would back it up.

sagat · 17-11-2008 11:01pm

Lance Vance wrote: »

Charlesland may mean the land of the peasant man, coming from the English word churl. The word churl comes from an old English word ceorl, which means freeman of the lowest class.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/churl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churl

Surely that's a wind-up. I doubt the new developments there would have been so attractive under the name peasantland.

drag0n79 · 18-11-2008 10:12am

It's amazing what you can find on the internet ... I just found this book preview.

http://books.google.com/books?id=MLXirfTwPFUC&printsec=frontcover&dq=stories+from+a+small+town&ei=aoQiSeu2I46OzQSTjqm3Bw&hl=en#PPP1,M1

Some old photos and stories.

MyPerfectCousin · 18-11-2008 11:10am

sagat wrote: »

Surely that's a wind-up. I doubt the new developments there would have been so attractive under the name peasantland.

I prefer "churlsland"...

:-)

Pablo Sanchez · 18-11-2008 6:34pm

Read that book, worth a read!

Son of Jack · 18-11-2008 8:03pm

Agreed Peter McNiff's book about Greystones 'Stories from A Small Town' is eminently readable and very informative.

Derek Paine's Photographic Histories of Greystones (Bray and Enniskerry), - there are a couple of them, are also very evocative.

RayM · 19-11-2008 4:46pm

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Do you remember being asked on the Monday if you went to Mass on the Saturday after the Friday confession ?
2nd Class, Br. Walsh. 3rd Class Br. ? 4th class, Br Donovan. 5th class Br. Brierton " Charlie". 6th class, Br. King or Chewy. There was also Master Ryle.

Mr Ryle later went on to be the principal of St Anthony's BNS in Kilcoole until he retired in the early '90s. I'm presuming it's the same man anyway.

pixbyjohn · 22-11-2008 1:22am

Yes, thats the same Mr. Ryle

MegFi · 23-11-2008 1:58am

Don't remember a disco in the beachhouse!
But I do remember:
- The Baskervilles at the Stables
- The divine Garlic Mushrooms at the Wicklow Arms
- Cabanas
- The croquet lawns at the Back of the Latouche Hotel
- The Burnaby on Christmas Eve
- Queing to get into the Rugby Club on Stevens night, in latter years, buying tickets in advance
- ...and all the 21st in the Rugby Club...!
- All the old houses along the main street
- Byrnes antique shop beside the Burnaby and Beth Nells shop more recently
- Great lunches in the Burnaby

...the lists above are brilliant, there are lots in there - great memories! Now... I feel old!

inlondon · 23-11-2008 3:17pm

someone forwarded this thread to me in london and I love it... A few additions:
- when Hillside was "the pig field"
- sneaking out to bonfire parties on the south beach in Summer with generators and all
- Sitting and smoking over cups of tea after school in the Copper Kettle until we got kicked out by ...what was her name ? the snooty fat lady with the blond hair?
- Playing darts in the spit and sawdust bar of the Burnaby
- "New York New York" at the end of Cabanas
- The "strange movements" footprints appearing on the street/paths/walls

Someone should get the Wicklow people (is it the Bray people now?) to do a feature on this!

pixbyjohn · 23-11-2008 5:15pm

Does anyone remember playing poker in the snooker room that was part of Saint Killians Hall ? There was a Bagatelle and full size snooker table there. The caretaker was Mr. Ned Earles and he always had a roaring fire going.
Also the Thrift club on a Sunday Morning in St. Killians, a savings club.
Now does everyone that knew The Shopping Basket remember who were the first owners. The Moore family were the first, Moore's supermarket.

pixbyjohn · 23-11-2008 5:21pm

Heres a few more, anyone remember Agnew's shoe repair and sports shop. It was situated where Klass boutique was, right beside Walker's Garage (Hills).
Now remember Brady's forge where Brady's hardware is now ? Then it was Jim Hayden's panel beating workshop before he moved to the Church Lane in Archer's place.

pixbyjohn · 23-11-2008 5:28pm

I remember Mr. Smullen who kept the boiler going in St Kevin's Christian Brothers school on Rathdown Road. Arthur Archer often kept him company as they sat there for the morning.
Anyone remember Arthur with his torch at the Sunday matinee in the Ormonde cinema.

weebelly · 24-11-2008 11:29am

Just checked the placenames website (logainm.ie) - no evidence for the name Charlesland before 1839 - earliest spellings vary: Charles' land/Charless land/Charles land/Charlesland. Irish placenames ending in -land tend to be quite late in date (most are only found from the 19th century on). It could still originate as 'churls-land' as people have suggested, but you'd expect that to be a more common placename (the only equivalent is a Charlesfield in Mayo or somewhere). Unless someone knows of a 'Charles' family who got a landgrant nearby in the 17th/18th century, the jury is still out.
By the way - don't know how many people are aware of this - but there were a series of archaeological sites uncovered during construction at Charlesland (check out the links below or simply search for Charlesland on excavations.ie or archaeology.ie). The last link is a map showing locations of sites overlaid on a modern map.

http://www.mglarc.com/index.php/leinster/58-leinster-projects/180-excavations-at-charlesland-co-wicklow.html
http://www.mglarc.com/index.php/home/58-leinster-projects/107-unique-prehistoric-musical-instrument-discovered-in-co-wicklow
http://www.mglarc.com/images/stories/project_images/wicklow/chalesland_excavations/charlesland_sites.pdf

loyatemu · 24-11-2008 11:52am

MegFi wrote: »

- The Burnaby on Christmas Eve

ah yes - *smash*, cheer!, *smash*, cheer!

great fun, until the spoilsports brought in plastic glasses around 2001.

Joliegood · 24-11-2008 12:32pm

loyatemu wrote: »

ah yes - *smash*, cheer!, *smash*, cheer!

great fun, until the spoilsports brought in plastic glasses around 2001.

Really ? No recollection of that.

newyork1 · 24-11-2008 2:52pm

I think Arthur lived with his sister on Rathdown Road

forrestgump · 24-11-2008 10:21pm

tradewinds cafe and yer man jackcsons record shop down where breretons is! Records lol really showing my age!

The ten past 8 diesel train to school.

The la touche sweet shop

The noise of the kish during stormy weather.

Spotting the talent on the buses from the shelter! How on earth did we manage to date without mobile phones, oh yeah we communicated!!!

pixbyjohn · 24-11-2008 10:25pm

newyork1 wrote: »

I think Arthur lived with his sister on Rathdown Road

Thats correct

bren2002 · 24-11-2008 10:43pm

The borrowed Northern Ireland Railways Shuttle Train to Bray
The Dry Cleaners that exploded in the Quinnsworth shopping centre (where Xtravision is now)
The Copper Kettle
The old brown ripped seats in the Burnaby
The blowhole on the sea wall
Sitting on a (literally) frozen beach in the middle of winter
The 84a
Almost passing out downstairs on a bus to Bray when the fumes leaked into the bus

Ones I'd forgotten (until I read them here)
The Backwards clock in Jokers
Soundz

pixbyjohn · 24-11-2008 11:39pm

"The Dry Cleaners that exploded in the Quinnsworth shopping centre (where Xtravision is now)"

Xtravision is gone from there a long time now. Things change fast

Fiachra2 · 25-11-2008 9:08am

[Almost passing out downstairs on a bus to Bray when the fumes leaked into the bus

Saw that happening a few times. not sure that fumes had much to do with it though!

joeybloggs · 25-11-2008 10:40pm

I'm loving the nostalgia here. Brilliant post. A welcome change from the 'Dog barking in the Pork' dribble.

pixbyjohn · 26-11-2008 12:40pm

John Nolan delivered the milk door to door for Premier Dairies and HB

Mick O Reilly delivered Boland's bread (he later bought La Touche shop and was a sweet supplier with his Bedford van to shops all over Dublin & Wicklow)
Paddy Daly delivered Johnston Mooney & O Brien's bread. He used to park the van in what is now the bookies office beside the Beach House.
Mick Synnott of Newtown used to sell meat from his Morris Minor van house to house on a Saturday night in Greystones. He had a butchers shop in Newtown Mt. Kennedy.
James Moran from Three Trout used to sell potatoes for Victor Evans of Farrankelly farm from a van door to door.

pixbyjohn · 26-11-2008 12:42pm

Does anyone remember the ESB office on Hillside road where we paid our electricity bill.

pixbyjohn · 26-11-2008 12:48pm

Who remembers the siren on Charlie Evans' garage (now Davis Bros ) in Greystones, it used to be heard all over Greystones to signal the firemen to the station. There was also a bell in every fireman's house that rang at the same time.

drag0n79 · 28-11-2008 11:23am

Any chance of making this thread a sticky? Just so any oldtimers (and all the new guys too) who drop by can see it straight away...otherwise it will eventually drop off the bottom.

mikedragon32 · 28-11-2008 11:46am

That's the nature of fora! Stickies are for useful info/charters etc.

You'll just have to keep it up here by posting!

drag0n79 · 28-11-2008 12:16pm

mikedragon32 wrote: »

That's the nature of fora! Stickies are for useful info/charters etc.

You'll just have to keep it up here by posting!

That's grand. Pixbyjohn, we're relying on you!

pixbyjohn · 28-11-2008 3:42pm

Ferns drapery shop was where Poppies coffee shop is now. They supplied the red carpet for weddings in the church, and for special occasions when the Bishops visited.

pixbyjohn · 28-11-2008 3:52pm

P. J. O Connor and Son was the name of the Carraig Orchard originally. Run by O Connors. The son, Dave O Connor was later a professional photographer who supplied most of the photos to the "Wicklow People" and other newspapers.

pixbyjohn · 28-11-2008 3:56pm

Dinny Toole from Killincarrig delivered coal door to door around Greystones in the 50s and 60s Charlie Mc Donald from Killincarrig was the local barber with his "salon" at the side of his house.

loyatemu · 28-11-2008 3:56pm

ah Ferns, and Bells - where my mum used to buy all my socks...

There used to be a toy and book shop above where Declans barbers is now, and the estate agents opposite Mooneys was at various times a sweet shop (very popular with the Bridgets and Davids kids) and a record shop (think this was the same guy who ran Soundz).

I think the entire block where Cherry Blossom and Breretons are now, was at one point a car showroom attached to the neighbouring garage - am I right about that. I have a recollection that it was the original Watson and Johnson.

Greystones really had very few shops prior to the mid-90s - the blocks containing the bookshop & supervalu were occupied by old houses (one of which contained a vets). Several of the shops on the other side of the street were still just houses. and obviously Meridian Point was still a stinky fish-factory.

Pixbyjohn - you must remember when the cinema still occupied that whole building. I think the space that made up the latterday cinema was just the balcony of the old one.

pixbyjohn · 28-11-2008 3:59pm

Jack Connolly of St. Brigids Park, Blacklion was the local hackney, He drove a Ford Consul

pixbyjohn · 28-11-2008 4:00pm

Jim Kinsella of Blacklion delivered coal from a horse and cart and when he progressed to a small lorry, his wife Josie drove it on deliveries

loyatemu · 28-11-2008 4:03pm

I've just remembered - Declan's was previously an electrical shop that also contained greystones' first video library - they had a betamax section!

Speaking of barbers, in one of the books of old photos of the town, theres a picture of Frank Clark standing outside his shop sometime in the 50s or 60s. Amazingly he looks exactly the same as he did when he was butchering my hair in the 80s and 90s! The new barbers in the village is ominously called "Sweeney Todds" but nothing could ever be as terrifying as seeing Frank approaching you with a pair of scissors in his hand :eek:

pixbyjohn · 28-11-2008 4:08pm

loyatemu wrote: »

ah Ferns, and Bells - where my mum used to buy all my socks...

There used to be a toy and book shop above where Declans barbers is now, and the estate agents opposite Mooneys was at various times a sweet shop (very popular with the Bridgets and Davids kids) and a record shop (think this was the same guy who ran Soundz).

I think the entire block where Cherry Blossom and Breretons are now, was at one point a car showroom attached to the neighbouring garage - am I right about that. I have a recollection that it was the original Watson and Johnson.

Greystones really had very few shops prior to the mid-90s - the blocks containing the bookshop & supervalu were occupied by old houses (one of which contained a vets). Several of the shops on the other side of the street were still just houses. and obviously Meridian Point was still a stinky fish-factory.

Pixbyjohn - you must remember when the cinema still occupied that whole building. I think the space that made up the latterday cinema was just the balcony of the old one.

Yes I remember the cinema in full swing, Monday and Tuesday nights had the same programmes as had Wednesday and Thursday nights . Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights had different programs. there was a matinee on Sunday afternoons. Paddy Salmon of Killincarrig was the Manager of the Ormonde.
The Vet beside Hills garage and now where Supervalue is now was Mr. Ross Buckley who now lives in Killincarrig beside the Hairdressing salon.
I remember when the Ormonde had a fund raising Concert for the Scouts and it was packed out. The Dubliners played there that night.

pixbyjohn · 28-11-2008 4:10pm

I remember Watson and Johnsons very well cos I served petrol there in the Summers,and also put number plates on new cars.

pixbyjohn · 28-11-2008 4:32pm

Where Declans Barbers shop is now originally there was a chemists shop there and I am at wits end trying to remember the name of it. Scotts Chemist was where Mc Gleenans is now beside Cominos chip shop.

Old Greystones

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