Why do Irish people support English teams?

blade1 · 10-05-2019 6:11pm

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

The quality on offer.

Same as TV/Movies. British/American content is better then Irish content.

You're not really selling it with that example

Achasanai · 10-05-2019 6:37pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I can't understand the logic of giving your money to the cities of London, Manchester or Liverpool supporting their teams over your own city and local clubs.

People do this all the time. If you enjoy tennis, you don't hang around the local club watching the amateurs play, you watch Wimbledon. It's odd that soccer gets the most stick for this.

Kind of the same as buying from a large online multinational rather than keeping it within the community.

The Moldy Gowl · 10-05-2019 6:49pm

Edgware wrote: »

There are loads of teams in the greater Manchester area, Salford City, Bury, Rochdale, Altrincham, United of Manchester

I follow man utd obviously because of the media exposure back in the day.

Im sick of elite football. I prefer the lower leagues. Way more fun rather than souness giving out about pogbas haircut. Following the top is tiresome. One loss and a team is in crisis

The Moldy Gowl · 10-05-2019 6:50pm

blade1 wrote: »

You're not really selling it with that example

Mls gets stick but it's decent quality. Give it 10 more years.

D14Rugby · 10-05-2019 6:57pm

8-10 wrote: »

My team, Liverpool, have every game televised including friendlies. Rarely stuck for a stream. It's win-win for me too, either I go to the game and get one of the best atmosphere's in any sport, or I get to watch at home.

If we weren't constantly on telly I'd likely follow someone more local more regularly, I have a local LOI Div 1 team I played for underage and go to the occasional game of, but nothing beats being able to watch every single game in a season home or away

LOI clashes with Liverpool I'd say maybe once a year at most. Being at matches home and away beats it by a long distance. Fair play to going to the odd game though.

greenspurs wrote: »

I guess you win then.

I wish I had your spare time !

It's not a win, a win implies nobody else can have that, every person in the country has the ability to do what I do, people just don't because of misguided preconceptions.

I don't have a lot of spare time. 53 hour week. I just don't **** about doing nothing scrolling through Facebook scratching my arse.

Greyfox wrote: »

Your first 2 points are nonsense, foreign fans also make noise at a match. I am not going to watch amatures play in the little park beside me, people hoofing a ball up and down a field with no passing ability.. that's not fun to watch so quality is important. local pride is only relevant if you have a good football club right beside you and most people in Ireland dont have this. Man United are my team, they've been my team since I was 8 and they will be my team on the day I die.

Foreign fans don't. Go to any ground in England and you'll see that. They sit and complain when others stand up.
People in Ireland do have this, they're just in denial about it because it's not the it thing to like

odyssey06 wrote: »

Why does Manchester need so many club teams then? Or London? Or Glasgow?
How could a team ever dare to move stadium, they'd no longer be representing the area! These are not NFL franchises. They are club teams. If representing the area was why they were formed there would be one Sheffield team. But no, we have Sheffield United and Sheffield Wednesday because Sheffield Wednesday originally played on a Wednesday.
The original name of Spurs was Hotspur Football Club. They only added the Tottenham part later.

Clearly, that's not why they were formed. The first step was because players wanted to play. Everything else that came afterwards, why some teams became pros and successful, why some teams had backers from local factory owners etc, why some stayed amateur or small from the same area ... all of that was the random chance of history.
If your theory was correct there wouldn't be lots of teams from same area at different rungs of the pyramid, there would just be Manchester A, B, C, D, E, F, G teams all the way down in every league.

There are multiple different areas and demographics in cities. Like how Celtic was started for the Irish in Glasgow, Manchester United for railway workers, Everton for church goers. Tottenham were called Hotspur after the nickname for the guy who used to own the land where they were founded.
Your second paragraph proves my point, many were founded by workers of factories and such so that they and their families had something to do on their day off.

Thelonious Monk · 10-05-2019 7:10pm

Going to a match is great though. Bohemians may not play like Liverpool but just going to the match and knowing you're contributing to the club and you're part of the community of Bohs is a lovely feeling. I honestly feel like I belong there as I first went to games as a kid with my Dad and Uncle and my family are from around there. That's what I don't get about the Liverpool stuff etc. Going to their matches etc, I just wouldn't feel like I belong. They are the city of Liverpool's team, not ours. I understand you can follow them, but you wont get that lovely feeling you get with your own local club, like the Liverpudlians are getting.

odyssey06 · 10-05-2019 7:25pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Going to a match is great though. Bohemians may not play like Liverpool but just going to the match and knowing you're contributing to the club and you're part of the community of Bohs is a lovely feeling. I honestly feel like I belong there as I first went to games as a kid with my Dad and Uncle and my family are from around there. That's what I don't get about the Liverpool stuff etc. Going to their matches etc, I just wouldn't feel like I belong. They are the city of Liverpool's team, not ours. I understand you can follow them, but you wont get that lovely feeling you get with your own local club, like the Liverpudlians are getting.

Please don't take this the wrong way but that's almost more than a sporting feeling though the way you describe it, some people get that feeling of belonging from their local church or local school or local history.. or in your case standing on the terraces of your local club.

D14Rugby · 10-05-2019 7:30pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Please don't take this the wrong way but that's almost more than a sporting feeling though the way you describe it, some people get that feeling of belonging from their local church or local school or local history.. or in your case standing on the terraces of your local club.

And there exactly is the point, every single person that follows their local club has that feeling. Now imagine the feeling you have when your team play and multiplying it by that feeling of belonging as you call it.

Supporting a foreign team doesn't even come close.

the_syco · 10-05-2019 7:33pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I just could never get why most of Dublin and the rest of the country supported the English league .

Because most of Dublin acknowledges that their team is sh|te.

Allinall · 10-05-2019 7:35pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

Teams were established to represent the areas they are in. Theres a reason they're named after where they are and not by their nicknames, even those though tend to have roots in the clubs geographical area.

Shamrock Rovers.

Wimbledon.

D14Rugby · 10-05-2019 7:40pm

Allinall wrote: »

Shamrock Rovers.

Wimbledon.

Shamrock Avenue in Ringsend, where the club was formed.

Is that a piss take? Wimbledon is a really well known area in London.

odyssey06 · 10-05-2019 7:42pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

And there exactly is the point, every single person that follows their local club has that feeling. Now imagine the feeling you have when your team play and multiplying it by that feeling of belonging as you call it. Supporting a foreign team doesn't even come close.

Or maybe lots of people already have that sense of belonging from the land, from their jobs, from their church... and approach football purely from a sporting perspective.

D14Rugby · 10-05-2019 7:44pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Or maybe lots of people already have that sense of belonging from the land, from their jobs, from their church... and approach football purely from a sporting perspective.

So what you're saying is you have a limit to how many things you feel you belong to and because of this you shouldn't get the full experience from following a football club?

odyssey06 · 10-05-2019 7:47pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

So what you're saying is you have a limit to how many things you feel you belong to and because of this you shouldn't get the full experience from following a football club?

No, a football club is a football club. To some people it is something more. To others, it is a sporting club and they connect with it on that level and are content with that and don't need it to mean any more than that.
It doesn't mean they are not fans of the sporting club.

D14Rugby · 10-05-2019 7:49pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

No, a football club is a football club. To some people it is something more. To others, it is a sporting club and they connect with it on that level and are content with that and don't need it to mean any more than that.
It doesn't mean they are not fans of the sporting club.

A football club is a representation on the area its from. If you see it as just a football club I really feel for you.
If that were the case why not shut down every league in the world and just have one big super league and everyone can just pick a team in that and "support" them?

That's why MK Dons are so hated, the Kilcoynes are hated, so on so forth. If football clubs were purely sporting then ripping them out of their area would be no big deal.

odyssey06 · 10-05-2019 8:04pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

A football club is a representation on the area its from. If you see it as just a football club I really feel for you.
If that were the case why not shut down every league in the world and just have one big super league and everyone can just pick a team in that and "support" them?
That's why MK Dons are so hated, the Kilcoynes are hated, so on so forth. If football clubs were purely sporting then ripping them out of their area would be no big deal.

Why do we have club football then instead of just having regional provincials and internationals like county cricket? Or NFL franchises that are for the whole of a city?
Arsenal was founded for workers at the Royal Arsenal. Presumably nobody else should have supported them, except workers and their families?
Sheffield Wednesday should still be playing on Wednesdays?

Why do clubs even sell TV rights? On your logic the only people who should be able to see a game are those in the ground.
We don't even need national leagues, local teams for local people, just have a city league for all the teams within the same city. Save on travel expenses.
On your logic you shouldn't even cheer for Man Utd if you are from Manchester, unless their ground is the exact closest to you as the crow flies over all the other teams in the pyramid that are based in Manchester?

Fanbases come in two sorts, the ones who go to the games and the sometimes larger sometimes smaller fanbase of fans who view on TV. Clubs want both and have valued both since the 1980s. If they moved they would lose one kind, if they cut off TV rights they would lose the other.

Kermit.de.frog · 10-05-2019 8:21pm

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

The quality on offer.

Same as TV/Movies. British/American content is better then Irish content.

Of course it is.

What do you expect when so many Irish people have such a lack of self esteem and faith in their own country? That applies across the board, not just football btw.

Quality is poor when things are not supported.

Ergo Irish football.

odyssey06 · 10-05-2019 8:43pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Of course it is.
What do you expect when so many Irish people have such a lack of self esteem and faith in their own country? That applies across the board, not just football btw.
Quality is poor when things are not supported.
Ergo Irish football.

Realistically, we are never going be able to compete with US and UK. We're not going to be able to produce the output or offer the rewards a talented english speaker can get there. That's why Irish players play for English teams at soccer, Irish actors appear in American movies and English soaps.

When you throw the appeal of GAA into the mix as a spectator and participatory sport, the 'event' rugby games, well there is only so much support to go round...

How does a lack of self esteem and faith explain a sport, GAA, that is only really played in Ireland gathering higher attendances than global sports such as soccer, rugby, cricket? Are we hiding, afraid we can't compete, or is it a reflection of self-esteem? As is the confidence of irish players and actors into trying to make it in US & UK?

If we wanted to focus on quality we should have put all our eggs into the 'rugby' basket and became the New Zealand of the northern hemisphere. Instead we have support and quality and resources spread all around, reflecting the arbitrary twists and turns of history and culture.

D14Rugby · 10-05-2019 9:18pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Why do we have club football then instead of just having regional provincials and internationals like county cricket? Or NFL franchises that are for the whole of a city?
Arsenal was founded for workers at the Royal Arsenal. Presumably nobody else should have supported them, except workers and their families?
Sheffield Wednesday should still be playing on Wednesdays?

Why do clubs even sell TV rights? On your logic the only people who should be able to see a game are those in the ground.
We don't even need national leagues, local teams for local people, just have a city league for all the teams within the same city. Save on travel expenses.
On your logic you shouldn't even cheer for Man Utd if you are from Manchester, unless their ground is the exact closest to you as the crow flies over all the other teams in the pyramid that are based in Manchester?

Fanbases come in two sorts, the ones who go to the games and the sometimes larger sometimes smaller fanbase of fans who view on TV. Clubs want both and have valued both since the 1980s. If they moved they would lose one kind, if they cut off TV rights they would lose the other.

No because there are different demographics in cities and clubs are there to cater for those demographics.
Clubs started like that because it was a time where everyone in a certain area did a certain job, as that changed they said let's just represent the area.
What does the day they play have to do with who supports them.

See there you go again confusing watching matches with supporting the teams.
As for if you're from Manchester, Manchester is very much split into areas that are for clubs so yeah if you're from those areas support those clubs unless there's something like your family support a different one and moved there.

Clubs don't really care about both fan bases they just want people to watch the TV and buy shirts, they don't care if they're fans or neutrals.

There are fans who have to follow their team on TV for one reason or another but we're not talking about that, we're talking about people that choose to. Big difference.

odyssey06 · 10-05-2019 9:26pm

D14Rugby wrote: »

No because there are different demographics in cities and clubs are there to cater for those demographics.
Clubs started like that because it was a time where everyone in a certain area did a certain job, as that changed they said let's just represent the area.
What does the day they play have to do with who supports them.

And now they have changed to represent the fans that support them all around the world, as well as the local area, even though they started out as merely playing outlets for the workers of Royal Arsenal, or those who had a halfday on a Wednesday in Sheffield, or for members of the Villa Cross Wesleyan Chapel, or the congregation of St Domingo Methodist New Connexion Chapel (that's Everton).

A club is a club, it's not a county it's not a city it's not a country. Their players come from England, sometimes from Ireland, sometimes from the four corners of the earth. As does their fans.
Why people have an issue with this I really don't know. I think the ones who have an issue with it are the ones with an issue. Get over it and live and let live.

For some people being there on the terraces is a deeper experience, fine, but I don't see why that has to turn into denigrating the experiences of the TV fan. Talk up that experience, don't talk down the other.

Strumms · 10-05-2019 10:23pm

You need to see both leagues as a product first and foremost. As an entertainment product....

The skill and entertainment on the pitch in the premiership is vastly superior to what can be offered here. There is vastly more money on offer to attract the best players in the world to the premiership.

The facilities in terms of scope, size, atmosphere and comfort are again, vastly superior in the premiership making each game more of an occasion of gladiatorial stature, something the LOI can’t begin to match.

The romanticism and legacy of the competitions there, scripted by the truest greats of the sport are the pillars that uphold the great legacy and ongoing appeal that we all tune in to watch as the next chapters are written, this weekend for example!

LOI for its quality, cannot compete but us vs them is not how it should be, it’s football ultimately, to be enjoyed.

Omackeral · 10-05-2019 10:55pm

Strumms wrote: »

You need to see both leagues as a product first and foremost. As an entertainment product....

The facilities in terms of scope, size, atmosphere and comfort are again, vastly superior in the premiership making each game more of an occasion of gladiatorial stature, something the LOI can’t begin to match.

I've been to Premisership games that have been like a morgue. You see so-called out-of-towners with their gift bags taking pictures all match and taking selfies rather than making noise. People getting p*ssed off if someone stands up.

8-10 · 10-05-2019 10:59pm

Omackeral wrote: »

I've been to Premisership games that have been like a morgue. You see so-called out-of-towners with their gift bags taking pictures all match and taking selfies rather than making noise. People getting p*ssed off if someone stands up.

Barcelona is even worse

feargale · 10-05-2019 11:46pm

Omackeral wrote: »

I can't really comment on rugby but I'd have to laugh at someone who says watching on telly is better, especially when it comes to your own team, it absolutely cannot be. Imagine the sheer ecstasy of a 90th minute winner against your rivals or in a cup semi and you're surrounded by lunatics hopping all over you while the opposition stand there stunned. The players coming to you to share and revel in the moment. Can't get that from a tv screen. The highs are absolutely best enjoyed when actually there.

Been there, done that. Come back when you're my age and tell us if you get a thrill out of lunatics jumping all over you. My point is that rugby is better seen and understood on tv. I said nothing about atmosphere. If I tell you that Con Houlihan preferred to watch rugby from behind the goalposts you might get the gist of what I mean.

mikemac2 · 11-05-2019 2:49am

Jesse Future Pointer wrote: »

I get the links to England via relatives etc too, but it's nearly always big teams.

People give the family reason about their uncle emigrating there but yes funny how it’s always the big successful teams

Coventry and Luton town and Birmingham city should have legions of Irish fans but they don’t

11-05-2019 4:17am

The reasons are obvious. Some people just don't like it.

That's what this thread should have been; One reply.

keithkk16 · 11-05-2019 4:26am

Last time I was at a Derry VS Finn Harps game ages ago I was in the harps away end and the amount of sectarian abuse harps fans were shouting at Derry players and their fans was shocking and so hateful. It was the last time I went to harps game and I'm from Donegal.

Lyle Lanley · 11-05-2019 4:38am

keithkk16 wrote: »

Last time I was at a Derry VS Finn Harps game ages ago I was in the harps away end and the amount of sectarian abuse harps fans were shouting at Derry players and their fans was shocking and so hateful. It was the last time I went to harps game and I'm from Donegal.

No abuse in English football though. That's an exclusively Irish thing.

keithkk16 · 11-05-2019 4:56am

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

No abuse in English football though. That's an exclusively Irish thing.

I think James Mcclean is the only person that gets sectarian abuse in England?

DEFTLEFTHAND · 11-05-2019 7:54am

the_syco wrote: »

Because most of Dublin acknowledges that their team is sh|te.

Absolute horse****, Dublin is a stronghold of LOI.

This is the culture. Would you support Saracens today because Leinster are ****?

NIMAN · 11-05-2019 8:04am

keithkk16 wrote: »

Last time I was at a Derry VS Finn Harps game ages ago I was in the harps away end and the amount of sectarian abuse harps fans were shouting at Derry players and their fans was shocking and so hateful. It was the last time I went to harps game and I'm from Donegal.

What sectarian abuse was shouted?

As a Derry fan I have never heard any being shouted at us.
I've heard banter about having a queen, collecting our giro's or walking greyhounds, but nothing that would upset anyone.

Edgware · 11-05-2019 5:54pm

keithkk16 wrote: »

Last time I was at a Derry VS Finn Harps game ages ago I was in the harps away end and the amount of sectarian abuse harps fans were shouting at Derry players and their fans was shocking and so hateful. It was the last time I went to harps game and I'm from Donegal.

Just typical of the ****e you hear from certain elements that congregate behind goalmouths.
I wouldn't be too concerned about them. They are in every club. The usual local dirtbirds imitating their heroes across the water

Bobblehats · 11-05-2019 5:55pm

Leeeeinsterrrrr ..

Edgware · 11-05-2019 6:01pm

Bobblehats wrote: »

Leeeeinsterrrrr ..

Go the guys!

Bobblehats · 11-05-2019 6:02pm

Edgware wrote: »

Go the guys!

That’s goys but yeah ~

TCM · 11-05-2019 6:03pm

mikemac2 wrote:

People give the family reason about their uncle emigrating there but yes funny how itâ€™s always the big successful teams

Edgware wrote:

Go the guys!

The guuys are in trouble - thankfully - wine is on ice.

SharpshooterTom · 11-05-2019 6:10pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Let's be honest, the way some Irish go on about British clubs (which is embarrassing and has more than a hint of post colonial psychology with it) hardly does much to assuage the argument that a good sample of typical football supporters actually aren't the brightest.

Do the huge number of Scandinavians who obsess of the English league like the Irish also have post colonial psychology?

SHOVELLER · 11-05-2019 6:23pm

greenspurs wrote: »

I think it is. In general.
There are a few (2-3) clubs that play good attaching football , with some skill.
The majority of teams, play hoof ball.
The facilities in most grounds are fairly grim,

Tell me why you think its not sh1te - im interested .

Tell me how you know all of this if you dont go.

8-10 wrote: »

My team, Liverpool, have every game televised including friendlies. Rarely stuck for a stream. It's win-win for me too, either I go to the game and get one of the best atmosphere's in any sport, or I get to watch at home.

If we weren't constantly on telly I'd likely follow someone more local more regularly, I have a local LOI Div 1 team I played for underage and go to the occasional game of, but nothing beats being able to watch every single game in a season home or away

On tv:rolleyes:

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Do the huge number of Scandinavians who obsess of the English league like the Irish also have post colonial psychology?

No because they support their own league.

People can do what they want but seeing and hearing Irish people bleating about "their" english team while ignoring their own league is pathetic. The very ones complain about the lack of success at international level but fail to see the laughable hypocrisy of spending huge sums funding our neighbour's league.

And its alwyas the same teams that are popular. Ask a barstooler why they dont "support" macclesfield or hereford and the answer speaks volumes.

There is simply no excuse for ignoring our league. The facilities have greatly improved. Look at Tallaght as an example. The standard has also got a lot better as our results in Europe show.

8-10 · 11-05-2019 6:43pm

SHOVELLER wrote: »

On tv:rolleyes:

Yes, or in person, read my post. I doubt most LOI fans get to see every minute of every game every season. I get that either in person or on tv and feel privileged for that to be the case.

I’d hate to miss a game, when it does happen on occasion I can download the full game

Bobblehats · 11-05-2019 6:55pm

TCM wrote: »

The guuys are in trouble - thankfully - wine is on ice.

The favourites ground it out. Ah well

Greyfox · 11-05-2019 10:35pm

SHOVELLER wrote: »

People can do what they want but seeing and hearing Irish people bleating about "their" english team while ignoring their own league is pathetic...There is simply no excuse for ignoring our league.

How is it pathetic when every LOI fan knows the English championship is a far superior league to anything Ireland will ever have? What makes you think anybody has the right to tell someone what they should be doing with there free time? What is someone from Tallaght doesnt like the way some Shamrock rovers fans cause trouble after a match?

D14Rugby · 12-05-2019 12:48am

Greyfox wrote: »

How is it pathetic when every LOI fan knows the English championship is a far superior league to anything Ireland will ever have? What makes you think anybody has the right to tell someone what they should be doing with there free time? What is someone from Tallaght doesnt like the way some Shamrock rovers fans cause trouble after a match?

Some LOI teams actually play better football than Championship teams that just have more money so that's why players go there even though its actually not that good football. This is pretty well established, and goes further to prove the point that if irish people gave their local teams the support they deserve every aspect or Irish football including the national team would improve.
For every time Rovers fans have caused trouble at a match there's probably 6/7 times fans of popular English teams have.

D14Rugby · 12-05-2019 12:50am

8-10 wrote: »

Yes, or in person, read my post. I doubt most LOI fans get to see every minute of every game every season. I get that either in person or on tv and feel privileged for that to be the case.

I’d hate to miss a game, when it does happen on occasion I can download the full game

Don't think I've missed a minute of Rovers this season. Fairly easy to find a stream of a game, may not hove sound or good picture quality but I can get a stream of some sort if I'm not at a game.

blade1 · 12-05-2019 5:39am

D14Rugby wrote: »

if irish people gave their local teams the support they deserve

The team's do get the support they deserve.

Kermit.de.frog · 12-05-2019 6:01am

blade1 wrote: »

The team's do get the support they deserve.

Because their sh!te?

The people who REFUSE to support the LOI and would rather help English teams and cities have some absolute cheek to criticise the standard of their own league.

No support, no quality.

But keep being the imbecile that Manchurians and Liverpudlians laugh at as they rake it in and ponder - "why the fcuk do so many Irish support us"?

It's embarrassing and pathetic.

To the other poster:

It is 100% a post colonial mentality.

"They are fundamentally better and bigger than us and thus everything is just better and we MUST support their teams and **** over our own, we'll never be good enough...blah, blah, blah"

RobMc59 · 12-05-2019 6:07am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Because their sh!te?

The people who REFUSE to support the LOI and would rather help English teams and cities have some absolute cheek to criticise the standard of their own league.

No support, no quality.

But keep being the imbecile that Manchurians and Liverpudlians laugh at as they rake it in and ponder - why the fcuk do so many Irish support us?

It's embarrassing and pathetic.

I disagree ,Liverpool and Everton supporters consider Irish supporters the same as themselves.

blade1 · 12-05-2019 6:12am

Seems like a lot of begrudery from LOI fans here.

Kermit.de.frog · 12-05-2019 6:17am

RobMc59 wrote: »

I disagree ,Liverpool and Everton supporters consider Irish supporters the same as themselves.

You are wired to the moon if you seriously believe that.

They are laughing at you. They take your money and "support". They don't give a damn beyond that.

RobMc59 · 12-05-2019 6:40am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You are wired to the moon if you seriously believe that.

They are laughing at you. They take your money and "support". They don't give a damn beyond that.

I live on Merseyside and have supported Everton all my life.

blade1 · 12-05-2019 6:47am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You are wired to the moon if you seriously believe that.

They are laughing at you. They take your money and "support". They don't give a damn beyond that.

Just look at the Sean Cox situation.
Yeah nobody gave a damn about him :rolleyes:

Why do Irish people support English teams?

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