Calls for State to build Mosque in Roscommon

cocaliquid · 28-03-2017 12:15am

Grayson wrote: »

I have loads of friends who are Muslim. For a lot of them I didn't even know they were Muslim until months or years later. Not that it would have made a difference to me. I can't see how anyone living in a big city couldn't know someone who'd Muslim. It'd be fair enough if they lived in a small village and there were none there but then it'd be impossible to say that they "keep to themselves".

I have a feeling that ironically you keep to yourself and don't actually talk to people you think might be Muslim.

You went to school in the Middle East you made the effort to make Muslim friends.Strange having friends and not knowing what would have been huge part of there life for years. Do you think everyone lives in a city because you do ?. I always make an effort to talk to every race and religion. Through college and work i noticed that they didn't hang around people who weren't Muslim. Unlike you when you were in the Middle East.

28-03-2017 12:16am

donkeykong5 wrote: »

I think ireland should look after the Irish first. Then second the likes of the agitator activist muslim from longford. Who is dictating to people who have heritage in roscommon what he wants and intends to do with their county.

That doesn't answer the question as to what you think the state should do with homeless? Should they go into direct provision?
As to your rant about Muslim activists in Longford telling people in Roscommon what he intends to do with their county!!! Lol is all i can say.
There's a thread for conspiracy theories here somewhere...............

SILVAMAN · 28-03-2017 12:48am

Grayson wrote: »

I have loads of friends who are Muslim. For a lot of them I didn't even know they were Muslim until months or years later. Not that it would have made a difference to me. I can't see how anyone living in a big city couldn't know someone who'd Muslim. It'd be fair enough if they lived in a small village and there were none there but then it'd be impossible to say that they "keep to themselves".

I have a feeling that ironically you keep to yourself and don't actually talk to people you think might be Muslim.

Has it occurred to you that Muslims move to non-Muslim countries and demand that the natives accommodate them? I'm not aware of non-Muslim immigrants to Islamic countries acting in the same way, and if they did they'd lose their heads.

melloa · 28-03-2017 1:00am

say it loud and say it clear

refugees are welcome heere

donkeykong5 · 28-03-2017 1:04am

bubblypop wrote: »

donkeykong5 wrote: »

I think ireland should look after the Irish first. Then second the likes of the agitator activist muslim from longford. Who is dictating to people who have heritage in roscommon what he wants and intends to do with their county.

That doesn't answer the question as to what you think the state should do with homeless? Should they go into direct provision?
As to your rant about Muslim activists in Longford telling people in Roscommon what he intends to do with their county!!! Lol is all i can say.
There's a thread for conspiracy theories here somewhere...............

Yeah re. Muslim dictator in longford instructing people in Roscommon on the niall boylan classic hits 4fm show exactly what he wants to do to their country. .........I agree 100% with you LOL.

The Oort Cloud · 28-03-2017 1:43am

I can't find this information saying that there is 56 mosques in Ireland, I was told it was 56 mosques, but that must be northern Ireland as well, is this true ?. How many are there in the republic of Ireland ?. Why is it so difficult to find this information.

The documented history of Islam in Ireland dates to the 1950s. The number of Muslims in Ireland has increased since the 1990s, mostly through immigration. The 2011 Irish census found 49,204 Muslims in the Republic of Ireland, constituting 1.07% of that state's population and at the time of the 2001 UK Census there were 1,943 living in Northern Ireland.

On 20 June 1631 a North African pirate ship captained by Jan Janszoon (Murad Reis) sailed into Roaring Water Bay in West Cork and raided coastal village of Baltimore. A crew of slave traders roused the villagers from their beds, slaughtered anyone who resisted, and herded 107 people into the hold of their waiting ship. Men, women and children were taken, even down to babies in the cradle. The villagers were sold into a life of slavery in the Ottoman Empire.

In 2003, the Islamic Cultural Centre and Foras na Gaeilge joined forces to plan translate the Koran into Irish for the first time.

feargale · 28-03-2017 2:02am

Glenster wrote: »

The refugees just want a place to worship.

Just cos Saudi Arabia is a dick doesn't mean we have to be.

You should familiarise yourself with the relevant portion of the Irish Constitution.

Grayson · 28-03-2017 6:51am

cocaliquid wrote: »

You went to school in the Middle East you made the effort to make Muslim friends.Strange having friends and not knowing what would have been huge part of there life for years. Do you think everyone lives in a city because you do ?. I always make an effort to talk to every race and religion. Through college and work i noticed that they didn't hang around people who weren't Muslim. Unlike you when you were in the Middle East.

It's not a huge part of their lives. Some are observant, some aren't. And there's a huge range in-between. Does every catholic go to mass every sunday and every holy day? can you tell what religion someone is without asking and why would you even ask? I've known Muslims who drink. Most of the women don't wear a headscarf.

You have this idea that all Muslims are carbon copies.

Lt Dan · 28-03-2017 9:58am

Grayson wrote: »

They have rights. They still have both human rights and civil rights. Even animals have rights in this country. To say they have no rights is a gross misunderstanding of what rights are.

Which rights are you referring to? Which ones are actually going to be infringed?

Their basic human right to life and free from torture and ill human and degrading treatment is met by granting them refugee status, (in theory, provided that the accommodation is in good order)

Their religious freedoms are not affected, they are free to practice their religion without any restrictions. There is a mosque 20 miles away. Someone in the area will be kind enough to transport them (those in Roscommon) to said Mosque.

Their rights to an education will be meet, children will be put into the schools

Their socio economic rights will lawfully restricted until they are declared refugees. After that, they are on their own , they are free to work and do business. They will have the same right to access to social benefits and assistance like any other Irish person. (many will need it as they are new to Ireland, they will need a leg up)

But, they are still "immigrants" and subject to immigration rules, of which are more flexible to refugees

Lt Dan · 28-03-2017 10:05am

Grayson wrote: »

Like the way they can 't vote? Or work? Or the way they had to stay in Mosney?
Direct provisioning was determined to breach the human rights of refugees.
Irish citizens have more rights than refugees. If you think otherwise then you need to read up on the rights of refugees. You'll see that they don't have more than Irish citizens.

Asylum seekers in Mosney - many have been in the accommodation , which, has been poor, worse in hostels in other counties (which have been closed down)

Asylum seeker's right to work was rejected by the Courts (State of accommodation centers was ruled by Courts) , The reason for that restriction is because the dog on the streets (and it can be proven by statistics which can be found on government websites) is that most Asylum seekers in Ireland are genuinely economic migrants. You don't need a visa to enter Ireland and it is (applying for asylum) a handy way to get in without being stopped. From there, (some are lucky enough to work illegally) they will try and get legal status by other means such as "marriage" or parenting a EU citizen child

Declared Refugees have rights akin to Irish Citizens (well, close enough, bar voting in National Elections and the need for visas to enter countries)

Lt Dan · 28-03-2017 10:16am

Grayson wrote: »

I agreed with that pages back, near the beginning, so you might not have noticed it. It's a stupid request. I also pointed out that I don't think the state should subsidise any religion and that includes renovating their buildings or paying for religious education (which we still do unfortunately).

btw, there are syrian refugees in Mosney. I just googled and found articles from January this year. The process remains the same as it's always been. A refugees requests asylum and is placed in direct provisioning until their application is processed.

Apparently there's an EU directive which states that refugees who are awaiting processing for more than a year can work but Ireland is one of two countries which disallows that.

It may be that particular groups have had their applications expedited since you've seen them living in the community. However it may be that they arrived years ago and spent years in direct provisioning.

Here the myth has to be busted once and for all

Yes, many people in Mosney have been in Mosney for years

HOWEVER

Many of them are lawfully FAILED ASYLUM SEEKERS - so the Directive is irrelevant once cases go to the Leave to Remain stage

Refugee cases, with application and appeal are often heard within 1 year. It will take longer if a decisions to refuse goes to the High Court for Judicial Review (could take 6 months to 2 years +) and then back to the Tribunal. The strike rate in the High Court is not that good, some cases are frivolous

Many of the Failed Asylum seekers are waiting on decisions for OTHER applications such as Leave to Remain and Subsidiary Protection (relevant to the Directive) . In order to ensure that the GNIB know where everyone is, they still keep them in the hostel despite not needing it anymore because they are failed asylum seekers

The problem however has been the State failure to process applications quickly , especially the rubbish ones . All that did was buy people time. Some got "married" and moved out of the hostels and / or found work.

Today, a new system is in place, like the UK , which hopes to reduce the needless delays - but, this being Ireland, I would not hold my breath

Grayson · 28-03-2017 10:16am

Lt Dan wrote: »

Which rights are you referring to? Which ones are actually going to be infringed?

Their basic human right to life and free from torture and ill human and degrading treatment is met by granting them refugee status, (in theory, provided that the accommodation is in good order)

Their religious freedoms are not affected, they are free to practice their religion without any restrictions. There is a mosque 20 miles away. Someone in the area will be kind enough to transport them (those in Roscommon) to said Mosque.

Their rights to an education will be meet, children will be put into the schools

Their socio economic rights will lawfully restricted until they are declared refugees. After that, they are on their own , they are free to work and do business. They will have the same right to access to social benefits and assistance like any other Irish person. (many will need it as they are new to Ireland, they will need a leg up)

But, they are still "immigrants" and subject to immigration rules, of which are more flexible to refugees

Did you read the post I was replying to? The one where it was said that they have no rights. I didn't mention any rights being infringed there so I have no idea what you're talking about.

These "refugees" are here at the goodwill of the Irish State, to give them shelter from war and persecution in their homelands.

They HAVE no "rights" to anything beyond this.

Lt Dan · 28-03-2017 10:57am

Grayson wrote: »

Think of it this way, imagine if 90% of the schools were Muslim. They taught the Muslim religion and had daily prayers. Clerics would stop by, be treated like royalty, and lecture the children. And you had to send your 4 year old to that school. Everyday they have to sit through classes that they're told they don't have to participate in. They sit there and listen to all the stories. They learn how to sing religious songs about the prophet and listen to important people tell them how it's evil to eat pork and drink alcohol.

At the best they'd be confused.

The article I linked to earlier, which someone quoted, describes atheists children being described as bad influences and Muslim girls having to sit through masses.

I don't think religion and education should be mixed. If the catholic church want their own schools, let them pay for them. If the church wants to teach another generation it's catechism, let them pay for it.
As it is the state is sponsoring religious education and they've spent billions on it. It shouldn't be the states job to pay for teachers to reach a particular religion.

You have yet to answer the question put to you several times in these threads

What "Catholic Dogma", that is at odd with other religions and social attitudes is taught in Religious classes in Irish Schools, particularly Irish Secondary Schools, today in 2017

http://www.catholicbishops.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Policy-For-The-Religious-Education-Of-Catholic-Children-Not-Attending-Catholic-Schools-March2011-GM.pdf

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/religion-may-be-out-of-core-curriculum-for-primary-schools-1.2918634

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/rule-prioritising-religion-classes-in-primary-schools-abolished-1.2514202

Lt Dan · 28-03-2017 11:16am

Grayson wrote: »

Did you read the post I was replying to? The one where it was said that they have no rights. I didn't mention any rights being infringed there so I have no idea what you're talking about.

The only one who has questionable comprehension and reading ability is you!

I asked a question. I asked you to specify these rights after you said Why did I ask the question? Because (a) You failed to read what the poster actually said! (b) I knew you are waffling

Your statement was the following.

"Originally Posted by Grayson View Post
They have rights. They still have both human rights and civil rights. Even animals have rights in this country. To say they have no rights is a gross misunderstanding of what rights are."

Your statements was in response to this statement by Kaiser, which you horrendously interpreted

"These "refugees" are here at the goodwill of the Irish State, to give them shelter from war and persecution in their homelands.

They HAVE no "rights" to anything beyond this. Anything they receive is at the expense and charity of their hosts and surely people fleeing death and torture would be grateful of a warm bed, safe place to stay, and guaranteed meals?

They are not citizens of this country or indeed Europe and they are (or should be!) here only only on a temporary basis until it's safe to send them home.

If they don't like that, or don't like the locale or the culture, or they feel they have "entitlements", then they're always free to leave for a country more in-line with their beliefs and expectations."

Your response to Kaiser was a bland generalization. Waffle. Kaiser, to whom you were responding to DID NOT SAY THAT REFUGEES HAD NO RIGHTS AT ALL!

The weakness in Kaiser's argument of course was to suggest that BEYOND the RIGHT to protection and to life (ie applying for asylum) the refugee had very few other rights. That is not correct of course, but, you were wrong and down right stupid to state that Kaiser had said or was of the view that refugees had no rights at all. He never said that

Widdershins · 28-03-2017 11:17am

Lt Dan wrote: »

Here the myth has to be busted once and for all

Yes, many people in Mosney have been in Mosney for years

HOWEVER

Many of them are lawfully FAILED ASYLUM SEEKERS - so the Directive is irrelevant once cases go to the Leave to Remain stage

Which puts a different slant on it. I wondered if there was something being left out there...

And the thing about religion in Irish schools. The proof is in the pudding, and we're far from a nation of zealots. The lapsed or a la carte catholic is the most common kind.

Lt Dan · 28-03-2017 11:21am

Widdershins wrote: »

Which puts a different slant on it. I wondered if there was something being left out there...

Of course there is.

Why do you think there are such such delays? Some of which is the State's fault btw. Lousy Court cases stalling progress in the case reaching its natural end ie Rejection

Grayson · 28-03-2017 11:31am

Lt Dan wrote: »

The only one who has questionable comprehension and reading ability is you!

I asked a question. I asked you to specify these rights after you said Why did I ask the question? Because (a) You failed to read what the poster actually said! (b) I knew you are waffling

Your statement was the following.

"Originally Posted by Grayson View Post
They have rights. They still have both human rights and civil rights. Even animals have rights in this country. To say they have no rights is a gross misunderstanding of what rights are."

Your statements was in response to this statement by Kaiser, which you horrendously interpreted

"These "refugees" are here at the goodwill of the Irish State, to give them shelter from war and persecution in their homelands.

They HAVE no "rights" to anything beyond this. Anything they receive is at the expense and charity of their hosts and surely people fleeing death and torture would be grateful of a warm bed, safe place to stay, and guaranteed meals?

They are not citizens of this country or indeed Europe and they are (or should be!) here only only on a temporary basis until it's safe to send them home.

If they don't like that, or don't like the locale or the culture, or they feel they have "entitlements", then they're always free to leave for a country more in-line with their beliefs and expectations."

Your response to Kaiser was a bland generalization. Waffle. Kaiser, to whom you were responding to DID NOT SAY THAT REFUGEES HAD NO RIGHTS AT ALL!

The weakness in Kaiser's argument of course was to suggest that BEYOND the RIGHT to protection and to life (ie applying for asylum) the refugee had very few other rights. That is not correct of course, but, you were wrong and down right stupid to state that Kaiser had said or was of the view that refugees had no rights at all. He never said that

I think you need to take a break. The poster said they had no rights beyond the right to food and shelter. There's a rake of human rights that they have both under UN and ECHR agreements that we signed.

Boom_Bap · 28-03-2017 11:33am

This thread is now closed. It's turned into a thread and discussion on immigration....and a dollop of in-fighting.

Calls for State to build Mosque in Roscommon

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