ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

FTA69 · 14-02-2019 11:24pm #1

So one of the three British teenagers who went to join ISIS at 15 has turned up at a refugee camp four years later and said she wants to return home. She is nine months pregnant with her third child, the first two supposedly dying of malnutrition, and wants to return to London in order to access the NHS.

Initially I sympathised with these girls, thinking they’d been groomed online and brainwashed and had made a terrible mistake but listening to the interview with the woman here - it’s chilling. She’s now a 19 year old woman, saying she regrets nothing, how severed heads in the bin unfazed her as “they were enemies of Islam” and how she “saluted” those remaining in the last bit of ISIS territory.

As far as I’m concerned she should be bloody left out there, but a mate of mine who fought against ISIS was opposed to this correctly asking why the Kurds should have put up with these foreign maniacs?

Unbelievable that some people are suggesting we should be tolerant or sympathetic to this woman.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/14/shamima-begum-friends-kadiza-sultana-amira-abase-joined-isis-syria

Ipso · 14-02-2019 11:26pm

The only reason I'd let her back is if she had any worthwhile intelligence to offer on any crazies, other than that leave her in the pig pen.

Underground · 14-02-2019 11:26pm

Seems a no brainer to me, and a classic case of "you've made your bed, now lie in it".

Atlantic Dawn · 14-02-2019 11:26pm

Did she not have travel inshurdance?

Damien360 · 14-02-2019 11:30pm

She is coming back to have her baby under the care of the NHS. Ridiculous that she wants to support the very thing that destroys democracy and then wants to avail of the good services paid by taxpayers of said democracy. She should be refused admission or at the very least incarcerated for membership of an illegal organisation.

14-02-2019 11:30pm

Mixed feelings in this. She was only a kid and should be given a chance, but it does seem like she is unrepentant.

I’m pretty sure she will make it back to London and be given some help, but as was said, she needs to be kept very low key to avoid being a magnet for crazies, be they the jihad type or BNP type.

FourFourRED · 14-02-2019 11:31pm

Wow, this story is about to blow up

jack of all · 14-02-2019 11:31pm

Off with her head.

NIMAN · 14-02-2019 11:33pm

How would they treat a male who did what she did?

Can see her getting special treatment cos she's a female

FTA69 · 14-02-2019 11:35pm

Aegir wrote: »

Mixed feelings in this. She was only a kid and should be given a chance, but it does seem like she is unrepentant.

I’m pretty sure she will make it back to London and be given some help, but as was said, she needs to be kept very low key to avoid being a magnet for crazies, be they the jihad type or BNP type.

Mate if she had her hands up saying, “I was groomed, it was awful. What a terrible decision I made. This is dire etc etc” I’d suggest treating her with compassion. But she isn’t.

Some people seem to be looking at the silly 15 year old on the camera stills and not listening to the adult in front of them condoning beheadings and saluting ISIS

upinsmoke · 14-02-2019 11:37pm

Probably train the child to be a suicide bomber when back, and I'm not joking

punisher5112 · 14-02-2019 11:38pm

The UK really needs to check themselves and here too.

We are way to soft and easy.

dilallio · 14-02-2019 11:38pm

What sort of life did these three 15 year old girls have in London, to believe that moving to a war zone and marrying soldiers they had never met would bring fulfillment?

awec · 14-02-2019 11:39pm

Bring her back, look after the child and give it every chance in life.

And give her a long holiday at her majesty's pleasure.

FTA69 · 14-02-2019 11:39pm

dilallio wrote: »

What sort of life did these three 15 year old girls have in London, to believe that moving to a war zone and marrying soldiers they had never met would bring fulfillment?

Normal enough from what I can gather. A lot of these jihadis come from moderate and normal families.

Atoms for Peace · 14-02-2019 11:40pm

She's an unrepentant Islam extremist so let her stew in her own ****. If you want to take advantage of western modernity leave your superstitions in the backwards hellhole they belong.

14-02-2019 11:41pm

FTA69 wrote: »

Mate if she had her hands up saying, “I was groomed, it was awful. What a terrible decision I made. This is dire etc etc” I’d suggest treating her with compassion. But she isn’t.

Some people seem to be looking at the silly 15 year old on the camera stills and not listening to the adult in front of them condoning beheadings and saluting ISIS

I know, she was quite chilling. Does a country just dump an 18 year old girl though?

Like I said, I have mixed feelings in this, maybe I’m just looking at this from the perspective of a father with a daughter a similar age to what she was when she went.

FTA69 · 14-02-2019 11:42pm

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

She's an unrepentant Islam extremist so let her stew in her own ****. If you want to take advantage of western modernity leave your superstitions in the backwards hellhole they belong.

Why should the Kurds have to put up with mad Brits and French and Bosnians? I wouldn’t blame them for wanting to send them all home.

14-02-2019 11:43pm

Preferably in a box.

Dyr · 14-02-2019 11:44pm

dilallio wrote: »

What sort of life did these three 15 year old girls have in London, to believe that moving to a war zone and marrying soldiers they had never met would bring fulfillment?

A good strict islamic one I imagine.

Harry Palmr · 14-02-2019 11:44pm

awec wrote: »

Bring her back, look after the child and give it every chance in life.

And give her a long holiday at her majesty's pleasure.

That is exactly what to do, her child is the innocent party in all this. A message needs sending out - if you sign up for the end of days expect to end your days in a hail gunfire or a cell.

smeal · 14-02-2019 11:45pm

I’m not sure if anyone here watched the BBC series The State last year (highly recommend) but this reminds me of that.

She should be allowed come back to have her baby (perhaps even in a prison) but then the baby should remain with her family who seem to be anti-ISIS and she should then be sent back out to that desert hell. She is a danger to her country.

Immortal Starlight · 14-02-2019 11:46pm

Seeing heads that had been hacked off innocent people and thrown in a bin didn't faze her. No way she should be allowed back in Britain.

LeBash · 14-02-2019 11:47pm

In the 90s the Brits refused to try to get their own journalists back that were captured during wars but this girl went off willingly to join ISIS and will get back.

They should offer to take the child back and give it the care it needs. No need to take her back with some of those quotes.

GinAndBitter · 14-02-2019 11:48pm

The Kurds should just execute any Isis fighters they capture.

14-02-2019 11:48pm

It’s the lack of remorse that annoys me. She comes across as educated too so can’t play the silly little girl role. She still believes that her actions are justified.

As a British citizen she cannot be refused entry but there will be nobody going in to save her either. She’s got to make her own way to a safe country first so I doubt (at 9 months pregnant) she will be giving birth under the supervision of the NHS.

Harry Palmr · 14-02-2019 11:52pm

Meanwhile in Bethnal Green

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/14/let-shamima-begum-come-back-say-bethnal-green-residents

Shakil, 18, a student who didn’t want to give his last name, on Thursday said Begum should be welcomed home. “She should feel safe to live here. She should get protection from the police from people who might not want her back.”

The dozen people who spoke to Guardian in Bethnal Green all said Begum should be allowed to return home.

Amina Mohamed, 52, a housewife, who has lived in the area for 16 years, said: “I was so shocked when I heard she went to Syria. She’s quite young and she’s a girl. I was so worried about her. She was a baby, she didn’t know what was going on there. People played a game with her and brainwashed her. She was a child.”

She added the government should do all it could to bring Begum back to east London. “It wasn’t just her decision to go, they tricked her. It’s not her fault. No one can make such a decision when they’re 15.”

Salaga, 49, also a housewife, said the government could not ignore the fact Begum was just 15 when she left to join the Isis in Syria.

“When she went to Syria, she was underage. She didn’t know what was right or what was wrong. The government should help her come back. If she was over the age of 18 when she initially went, I wouldn’t be calling for her to come back. But she was a child.”

Amirani · 14-02-2019 11:54pm

“When she went to Syria, she was underage. She didn’t know what was right or what was wrong. The government should help her come back. If she was over the age of 18 when she initially went, I wouldn’t be calling for her to come back. But she was a child.”

Every word of that is nonsense.

Gatling · 14-02-2019 11:58pm

She should be made completely stateless ,let the Kurds deal with her or shoot her in back of the head,
Her and the many others like her are not Victims here ,

Monkeynut · 15-02-2019 12:01am

Poor baby is probably only in her, for an attempt to get pity and a return to the UK.

tuxy · 15-02-2019 12:08am

Gatling wrote: »

She should be made completely stateless ,let the Kurds deal with her or shoot her in back of the head,

The UK should break international law?

Paddy Cow · 15-02-2019 12:11am

dilallio wrote: »

What sort of life did these three 15 year old girls have in London, to believe that moving to a war zone and marrying soldiers they had never met would bring fulfillment?

She had a privileged and sheltered upbringing. The girls probably saw gong to Syria as some sort of romanticised adventure. Chilling that after four years and two children lost to malnutrition, she hasn't learned anything and doesn't regret it. She wants to come back to Britain now because her husband got captured. If things had gone differently for ISIS, she would happily stay there.

jay48 · 15-02-2019 12:11am

Was listening to Matt Cooper earlier and the reporter called her Shamima Kaboom before quickly correcting himself.

buried · 15-02-2019 12:12am

This young wan would want to man the f**k up, stay over there and let her middle eastern Abrahamic god save her.

malinheader · 15-02-2019 12:12am

If I was a UK citizen and they let this piece of sh-t back in I would be seriously pissed off. Jesus it's a no brainer.

Folkstonian · 15-02-2019 12:16am

I listened to the interview earlier - there wasn’t a shred of regret or remorse in her tone or her words.

After all the wickedness and brutality that IS have meted out to people across the Middle East and the wider world, you would expect any person with a modicum of human decency would be desperately, desperately apologetic for their awful choices and their hideous acts.

There wasn’t even a hint of that. There was a nonchalance and an arrogance about her. She was incredibly matter of fact about why she wants to come back. The caliphate is done and her kid will have a better chance in the West.

She’s clearly still a total believer in the IS cause. If she comes back, she will be a lifelong problem for the police and intelligence services and the public will be significantly less safe because she’s a fully fledged Islamist maniac and there’s no doubt in my mind that she would, if allowed to do so, immediately attempt to radicalise and recruit other British Muslims to the cause.

Under international law, sadly if she rocks up at the British border one day we won’t have a choice but to let her in, yet the trouble I have with her returning to the U.K. is that she would likely spend closer to 24 months than 24 years in prison.
The courts are demonstrably useless in dealing with returning islamists; sentences have been pitiful.

In a few years time there will be hundreds of these hideous, murderous individuals back on the streets after a couple of years inside. Still radical, still motivated. It’s a scary prospect.

Gatling · 15-02-2019 12:17am

tuxy wrote: »

The UK should break international law?

Yes they should ,If the Kurds don't do the job then the UK government should sanction it whether it be at the end of a drone strike or sniper any UK citizen who is part of Isis should be neutralised permanently .

Zero returns and every other government should take the same stance

bucketybuck · 15-02-2019 12:18am

Aegir wrote: »

Does a country just dump an 18 year old girl though?

Yes, it should. Dump her like the terrorist she is.

malinheader · 15-02-2019 12:29am

yamaha50 wrote: »

A lot of islamaphpobia bad racism ans miisoginy on this yhread.
The child is a brittish citizen and should be brought home and given a flat

British citizens my bo--ocks. That was given up the day she left to join ISIS.

mdwexford · 15-02-2019 12:29am

Kill her.

Stephen15 · 15-02-2019 12:30am

Joining an organisation such as ISIS should be declared an act of treason against a country. Maybe she should be brought and put on trial for treason along with the likes of Abu Hamza, Anjem Choudary and Omar Bakri Muhammed. Anyone caught propagating the ideologies of true Islam which ISIS and Al-Queda are trying to promote should be declared an enemy of the state.

FrancieBrady · 15-02-2019 12:33am

Ironically, I agree with Jacob Rees Mogg on this, in any other scenario this would be seen as 'abuse'.
The UK like other western countries pretend to be humane. Allow her back, help her and also monitor her. I don't see a need to harm her.

screamer · 15-02-2019 12:35am

awec wrote: »

Bring her back, look after the child and give it every chance in life.

And give her a long holiday at her majesty's pleasure.

A noble thought, but that child will be told the bad western anti Islamic country took your mother away, as a good little Islamic jihadi kid, you must seek vengeance..... we know it’s true, it matters not what they are given, belief trumps all else. Leave her and her baby where they are.

malinheader · 15-02-2019 12:37am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ironically, I agree with Jacob Rees Mogg on this, in any other scenario this would be seen as 'abuse'.
The UK like other western countries pretend to be humane. Allow her back, help her and also monitor her. I don't see a need to harm her.

Monitor her. That says it all. Theres no help for these people.

SEPT 23 1989 · 15-02-2019 12:39am

And all the while the brave men who went over there to fight alongside the Kurds against that scum are arrested and questioned like criminals on return to their own country if they admit to what they were doing while abroad

FTA69 · 15-02-2019 12:40am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ironically, I agree with Jacob Rees Mogg on this, in any other scenario this would be seen as 'abuse'.
The UK like other western countries pretend to be humane. Allow her back, help her and also monitor her. I don't see a need to harm her.

For rehabilitation there has to be contrition. She hasn't shown an ounce of it, and to me comes across as a dangerous and radicalised person with no regrets.

I've come across 19 year old far-right activists who are prepared for violence, should we put an arm around them too and offer our sympathies?

FTA69 · 15-02-2019 12:42am

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

And all the while the brave men who went over there to fight alongside the Kurds against that scum are arrested and questioned like criminals on return to their own country if they admit to what they were doing while abroad

And women. Anna Campbell from Sussex died over there, as did seven other people from Britain. Many of those who returned, including mates of mine, have been raided repeatedly and detained, one woman is currently in prison for attempting to go to Rojava.

FrancieBrady · 15-02-2019 12:45am

FTA69 wrote: »

For rehabilitation there has to be contrition. She hasn't shown an ounce of it, and to me comes across as a dangerous and radicalised person with no regrets.

I've come across 19 year old far-right activists who are prepared for violence, should we put an arm around them too and offer our sympathies?

If she broke the law, prosecute her. No problem there. If she needs to come home she should be allowed to. Your citizens are your responsibility. This girl was radicalised as a child and by UK law possibly raped.
Are you humane or not. Fairly simple dilemma to me.

Plumbthedepths · 15-02-2019 12:47am

Let her rot there, she's among her friends.

katiek102010 · 15-02-2019 12:48am

The age of criminal responsibility in the UK is 10.

She should be brought back, baby put into care and locked up in a psychiatric unit.

She is clearly unwell, from watching the video, she was a child when she went and has been with those animals since. She was clearly groomed and brainwashed.

The reason I believe her child should be taken away and put into care is I would have concerns her family may have exposed her to some form of extremism

FTA69 · 15-02-2019 12:50am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If she broke the law, prosecute her. No problem there. If she needs to come home she should be allowed to. Your citizens are your responsibility. This girl was radicalised as a child and by UK law possibly raped.
Are you humane or not. Fairly simple dilemma to me.

Yeah but you've not touched much on prosecution, you were on about monitoring her and leaving her off despite her explicit declarations that she has supported ISIS and sees nothing wrong with that.

If she comes home it needs to be to a cell.

ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

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