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New 6x weekly Rosslare - Dunkerque (France) Ferry

2

Comments

  • #32
    embraer170
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭embraer170


    Plenty of interesting news in recent days.

    WB Yeats switching with Epsilon and taking over the Cherbourg route for three weeks.

    And a few Epsilon UK services this weekend cancelled and replaced with an additional Cherbourg departure on Friday.


  • #33
    Jim Gazebo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭Jim Gazebo


    Rosslare is surely over capacity now? One strong gale down there and 3/4 ships looking to come in, skippers not used to it, it's very exposed... Hopefully they've thought of all that as well. Could get messy..


  • #34
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    I wouldn't worry so much about the skippers ability, but more about the ability to effectively stack all the trucks now on this route. The local road network must be an issue also. Some videos on social media of significant tail backs already. A few cancelled sailings from bad weather and there'll be a big mess both in the port and on the access road.


  • #35
    RonanG86
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 774 ✭✭✭RonanG86


    Jim Gazebo wrote: »
    Rosslare is surely over capacity now? One strong gale down there and 3/4 ships looking to come in, skippers not used to it, it's very exposed... Hopefully they've thought of all that as well. Could get messy..

    The anchorage is getting a lot of use, but they do space them out when they're there. Example from the ship porn thread: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115766823&postcount=1842

    The Stena Foreteller in the background of that shot was actually North of Rosslare point when that picture was taken.

    The quite large Stena Embla was there on Wednesday, it's taking over the France route whilst the Horizon is down for maintenance. But apparently the Horizon will be replaced long-term by the Estrid, which is the same size as the Embla, due to the extra demand on the route: https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2021/0113/1189595-stena-line-ferry/

    Whilst obviously they need the size, that's a fully loaded passenger ferry with all the facilities. Wonder about the efficiency of that for a route that's largely freight traffic.


  • #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Jim Gazebo wrote: »
    Rosslare is surely over capacity now? One strong gale down there and 3/4 ships looking to come in, skippers not used to it, it's very exposed... Hopefully they've thought of all that as well. Could get messy..

    I used to work on the French route 20 years ago, and whilst the English ships would berth in bad weather, the French boat always went out in it, that's the thing about Rosslare, it's a deep sea harbour, in bad weather when the UK boats tied up, we had to steam up the Irish Sea and wait and let the bad weather pass, and when it came to turning the ship, we had to ring down to the restaurants to give them a warning.

    Rosslare will be fine, if they schedule it right, and so far it looks like they are covering themselves regarding the existing schedules.

    I was speaking to my brother who's a truck driver and has been on the DFDS boats, and he's saying that the French route is fully subscribed, he also mentioned that there is way loads more of Northern Irish reg Hauliers using the route who would have normally used landbridge.

    Have to say it's great to see Rosslare flourish.


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  • #37
    RadioRetro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,090 ✭✭✭RadioRetro


    Brittany Ferries swapping to a larger vessel according to a local paper reporter...

    https://twitter.com/byrne_padraig/status/1350378189101662208


  • #38
    vicwatson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    Tabnabs wrote: »
    I wouldn't worry so much about the skippers ability, but more about the ability to effectively stack all the trucks now on this route. The local road network must be an issue also. Some videos on social media of significant tail backs already. A few cancelled sailings from bad weather and there'll be a big mess both in the port and on the access road.

    Not true

    That was a once off, things are flowing very freely down there, and no issue with road access


  • #39
    vicwatson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    Dohvolle wrote: »
    The road from the Ferry Terminal to the New Ross Rd roundabout is not fit for purpose. It wasn't before, it isn't now. Barntown needs to be bypassed too, for their own sake.
    Also, how long before RNLI operations are impacted by Rosslare Port operations?

    Most of the time this road you refer to is dead


  • #40
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,354 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Not true

    That was a once off, things are flowing very freely down there, and no issue with road access

    Strange, I was talking to a pal earlier who lives in Broadway and works in Rosslare Harbour and he said its getting busy and there is considerable concern about the ability of the road network to cope when normal freight levels return.

    I'm quite sure the people in Kilrane and Tagoat and Killinick will be concerned.

    Time to get the M11/M25 final section plotted and built asap.


  • #41
    vicwatson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Strange, I was talking to a pal earlier who lives in Broadway and works in Rosslare Harbour and he said its getting busy and there is considerable concern about the ability of the road network to cope when normal freight levels return.

    I'm quite sure the people in Kilrane and Tagoat and Killinick will be concerned.

    Time to get the M11/M25 final section plotted and built asap.

    Won’t happen for years

    No concern about the road network


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  • #42
    Jim Gazebo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭Jim Gazebo


    NoDrama wrote: »
    I used to work on the French route 20 years ago, and whilst the English ships would berth in bad weather, the French boat always went out in it, that's the thing about Rosslare, it's a deep sea harbour, in bad weather when the UK boats tied up, we had to steam up the Irish Sea and wait and let the bad weather pass, and when it came to turning the ship, we had to ring down to the restaurants to give them a warning.

    Rosslare will be fine, if they schedule it right, and so far it looks like they are covering themselves regarding the existing schedules.

    I was speaking to my brother who's a truck driver and has been on the DFDS boats, and he's saying that the French route is fully subscribed, he also mentioned that there is way loads more of Northern Irish reg Hauliers using the route who would have normally used landbridge.

    Have to say it's great to see Rosslare flourish.

    Totally agree about flourishing, I just know the way it is exposed and with so many extra new vessels, and then the pressure not to be the one that says I'm not going in today. I just hope they've thought ahead that's all regarding risk assessments for having so many ships down there.


  • #43
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,354 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Won’t happen for years

    No concern about the road network

    With 40 odd sailings per week to the Continent alone once things get fully up to speed, on top of the return of private tourist traffic using these services, I really don't know how you can say that. Not just the capacity of the roads, but the safety aspects and road surface deterioration as well as insufficient stacking space in the Harbour.

    Putting your head in the sand about all of this is just foolish.


  • #44
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    Look at the A55 in Anglesey. A road that was for years a problem with traffic to and from the port, until it was upgraded to a dual carriageway. If the current levels of freight are continued and then once passenger traffic returns, anyone saying it's grand is deluding themselves. Why are there long-standing plans to upgrade the road before the recent boom if the current road capacity is fine?


  • #45
    AndyBoBandy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,721 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Thankfully plans are afoot to improve the access to/from the port (it was posted in another thread)

    https://oilgate2rosslareharbour.ie
    (watch the video, it's great)

    And it looks like they are going about it the right way, looking for input from all the stakeholders.


  • #46
    Vic_08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭Vic_08


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    With 40 odd sailings per week to the Continent alone once things get fully up to speed, on top of the return of private tourist traffic using these services, I really don't know how you can say that. Not just the capacity of the roads, but the safety aspects and road surface deterioration as well as insufficient stacking space in the Harbour.

    Putting your head in the sand about all of this is just foolish.

    Making up numbers to make out there is some impending crisis is equally foolish.

    Where are you getting 40 continental sailings from? there are less than 20 a week (6 DFDS, 6 Stena, 1 Brittany to France, 2 Brittany to Spain). On average only 1.5 extra sailings a day on previous Rosslare numbers.

    If, and it is a big if, the shift away from ROI-UK traffic is permanent it will also mean a reduction in traffic for the 4 daily Rosslare-UK sailings or even a reduction in those sailings/routes.

    A plan is already in place to provide a new freight access and handling to the port to the north of the current route bypassing the harbour village.

    It is way too soon to know how much traffic will permanently route directly to the continent and how much shipping will be needed to sustain it, these extra services may not all survive long term.


  • #47
    RadioRetro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,090 ✭✭✭RadioRetro


    Another "We're gonna need a bigger boat" feeling comes to pass in Rosslare Harbour...

    https://twitter.com/Rosslareuroport/status/1351213637122318337


  • #48
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,907 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    Dohvolle wrote: »
    It's interesting that for years Cork struggled to get a functioning cruise ferry on the Cork-Roscoff route (summer only) and was looking forward to an upgrade, when the newer ferries were reshuffled, then in the space of a few weeks, Rosslare gets Cap straight from full refit??

    In fairness the Pont Aven is not a shabby boat though!


  • #49
    neris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,066 ✭✭✭✭neris


    Wonder if theres extra demand beyond whats available now for Ireland France will Rosslare struggle for capacity and see that demand being passed back to Dublin or onto Cork.


  • #50
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,354 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Dohvolle wrote: »
    No, but there are better ships doing shorter routes within the company.

    It might be interesting but its not surprising. Putting Cap F on the Rosslare service makes absolute sense from every perspective. Shorter crossing, huge freight demand so always high load factor, the route will be massively profitable.

    Cork is just a seasonal tourist route really. Families heading to campsites in France.


  • #51
    Vic_08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭Vic_08


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    It might be interesting but its not surprising. Putting Cap F on the Rosslare service makes absolute sense from every perspective. Shorter crossing, huge freight demand so always high load factor, the route will be massively profitable.

    Cap Finestre is only covering Rosslare for a few weeks while Connemara fills in on their Poole service which is constrained by size limits in Poole Harbour.

    Even though it is a larger ship and has better passenger facilities Cap has a lower freight capacity than Connemara.


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  • #52
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,354 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Cherbourg port authority announcing yesterday that so far in January they handled 9,000 truck movements, already more than any full quarter of 2019.

    I think these statistics must surely present questions about port and infrastructure serving Rosslare Harbour.


  • #53
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,354 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Irish Times reporting freight traffic through Rosslare up 500% over the first half of January.


  • #54
    Vic_08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭Vic_08


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Irish Times reporting freight traffic through Rosslare up 500% over the first half of January.

    That's the headine but the quote in the video is 500% increase TO EUROPE.

    Freight from Rosslare to UK in the same period is down by over 75%, so much that Stena have cut back to one sailing a day until volumes increase.

    If things stayed as they are (they won't) Rosslare - South Wales would not sustain it's current service, one of the routes and ships would go. That would mean a net overall reduction in capacity from the port.

    Even with a partial recovery there is still a risk of Rosslare - Wales losing one route as it has always been the most marginal of the Irish Sea corridors.

    Nobody expects the current extreme shift away from landbridge to be permanent, it is going to take some time before the freight distribution settles down.

    The shift is also magnified by the current lack of car traffic, there is nothing to suggest this market will be effected by Brexit so previous patterns are likely to return post-covid.


  • #55
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    Vic_08 wrote: »

    The shift is also magnified by the current lack of car traffic, there is nothing to suggest this market will be effected by Brexit so previous patterns are likely to return post-covid.

    The fact that the WBY was built to serve the Dublin to Cherbourg route and that Stena have introduced a similar route, along with services from the Port of Cork, suggests strongly that the private vehicle market would strongly support a direct Continental alternative to the "Land-bridge" option.


  • #56
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,354 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Good to see the report on the Port of Cork on the News at 1, indicating an increase in container traffic of 10% so far this year, driven by direct services from the EU continent.

    Could it be that ro-ro investment in Dublin and Rosslare, along with massive container capacity due to come on stream in Cork in the summer, will be the formula for efficient and well spread direct freight from our EU partners?

    Hopefully we will see the Government urgently progress the M11 from Oylegate and the M28 to Ringaskiddy projects now, to further and permanently remove any dependence on the land bridge.


  • #57
    eastie17
    Registered Users Posts: 448 ✭✭eastie17


    But why was none of this before Brexit? The DFDS ferry only started in Jan and was brought forward by a few weeks. Is it they thought everything was going to be grand and when it wasnt reacted?


  • #58
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    You'd have to think also that Waterford would be looking at how they can tap into demand for this additional freight capacity.


  • #59
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    eastie17 wrote: »
    But why was none of this before Brexit? The DFDS ferry only started in Jan and was brought forward by a few weeks. Is it they thought everything was going to be grand and when it wasnt reacted?

    Deal or no deal; it went right to the wire and it was difficult to prepare for something when that something was just so vague in any details.


  • #60
    AndyBoBandy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,721 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Tabnabs wrote: »
    You'd have to think also that Waterford would be looking at how they can tap into demand for this additional freight capacity.

    Are there RO-RO facilities in Waterford? or is it container only?


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  • #61
    Vic_08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,057 ✭✭✭Vic_08


    Tabnabs wrote: »
    The fact that the WBY was built to serve the Dublin to Cherbourg route and that Stena have introduced a similar route, along with services from the Port of Cork, suggests strongly that the private vehicle market would strongly support a direct Continental alternative to the "Land-bridge" option.

    Was there ever a large market for leisure traffic to the continent via Britain? Safe to say the preference was always for direct sailings, those using the Landbridge would have been doing it for speed, a factor that will still be true post covid.

    The single weekend round trip Stena have laid on has nothing to do with leisure traffic demand to the continent, it is a temporary measure to cater for freight, taking advantage of the lower freight loads to the UK due to brexit chaos and the fact weekends are always the quietest for freight on that route. In normal times weekends on Dublin - Holyhead also see higher loads of passenger cars somewhat making up for the lower freight numbers. Jan/Feb were always the quietest months on all ferry routes, the companies used this to got away with reducing capacity and sailings to put their ships through drydock.

    Estimates publicised recently were that approx 10% of commercial Ro-Ro traffic through Dublin was destined for continental Europe, the rest was for GB. The % for cars is nowhere near as high. How much of this will permanently switch to direct sailings, how much will NI traffic switch to direct sailings from Belfast to GB and how much freight IRL-GB will be permanently lost due to Brexit are all unknowns at the moment.


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