New 6x weekly Rosslare - Dunkerque (France) Ferry

embraer170

DFDS have announced a 6x weekly Rosslare to Dunkerque (France) route launching on 2 January 2021. Three roro ships have been chartered for the route. The initial target is only freight/trucks, but it may be marketed to cars in the future.

https://www.dfds.com/en/about/media/news/dfds-opens-direct-ireland-france-ferry-route

Quite some competition for Irish Ferries and Stena. I assume the long crossing time (22-24 hours) makes it unsuitable for live exports (a substantial's contribution to Stena's operation).

Cookiemunster

I don't know is it really competition. Quite a lot freight will be avoiding the red tape and delays of going through the UK to reach the continent after Jan 1st., so the extra services will be required. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of more direct continental routes in the near future.

embraer170

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I don't know is it really competition. Quite a lot freight will be avoiding the red tape and delays of going through the UK to reach the continent after Jan 1st., so the extra services will be required. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of more direct continental routes in the near future.

On the other hand, a recent report by the IMDO (for the Department of Transport) talks about overcapacity between Ireland and France, even with Brexit and without the new DFDS route.

https://www.imdo.ie/Home/site-area/news-events/report-department-transport-re-assessment-ireland’s-maritime-connectivity

roundymac

Why is Cork being bypassed by shipping companies?

embraer170

roundymac wrote: »

Why is Cork being bypassed by shipping companies?

Port that is difficult to access, RoRo infrastructure is limited (one berth), a focus on container traffic (see recent expansion), not the most ideal part of the country.

CJhaughey

roundymac wrote: »

Why is Cork being bypassed by shipping companies?

I think a Cork-Portsmouth-Vigo ferry is still in discussion.

andrewfaulk

roundymac wrote: »

Why is Cork being bypassed by shipping companies?

CLDN just announced a doubling of Cork-Zeebrugge, seems to be flying under a radar a bit with DFDS announcement hogging the airways!

munchkin_utd

embraer170 wrote: »

On the other hand, a recent report by the IMDO (for the Department of Transport) talks about overcapacity between Ireland and France, even with Brexit and without the new DFDS route.

https://www.imdo.ie/Home/site-area/news-events/report-department-transport-re-assessment-ireland’s-maritime-connectivity

still, this is not really competing with the ferry to Cherbourg 500km away, and unlike the link to Zeebrugge nearby, all trailers can be accompanied by truck and driver.

The landbridge takes about 20 hours including breaks and whatnot, so an alternative taking 24 hours and dropping you to literally the exact same port you arrive into on the continent isn't too much longer
Truck drivers will be able to reach the likes of Germany straight off the Ferry without needing an 11 hour rest stop midway like they would if they arrived into Cherbourg. If heading to say Poland or other eastern destinations it would be 1 big rest rather than 2, so the slightly longer stay onboard a ferry compared to a service to Cherbourg is more than compensated by that.
The 2 Saturday departures from Rosslare are also attractive as they land you up the French coast on Sunday afternoon or more importantly at midnight on Sunday when the Sunday truck bans for everything except fresh food expires!
I'd say this service will do quite well and they must have firm advance bookings already to be be able to start so many ferries on a new route.

Heres the timetable just to have it here for posterity

Dept Rosslare Arrive Dunkirk
Monday 20:00 Tuesday 21:00
Tuesday 20:00 Wednesday 21:00
Wednesday 20:00 Thursday 21:00
Friday 18:00 Saturdays 19:00
Saturday 14:00 Sundays 15:00
Saturday 23:00 Mondays 00:00


Dept Dunkirk Arrive Rosslare
Tuesday 10:00 Wednesday 09:00
Wednesday 10:00 Thursday 09:00
Thursday 10:00 Friday 09:00
Friday 20:00 Saturday 19:00
Saturday 23:00 Sunday 21:00
Sunday 22:00 Monday 21:00

Has anyone an idea which ferries they have chartered ?

embraer170

Some talk that MV Kerry might be one of them: Stena owned and most recently leased to Brittany Ferries (ans no stranger to Rosslare).

neris

Chances are alot of trailers will go unaccompanied and be collected from the ferry port. haulage companies dont want drivers sitting on a ferry for 24 hours when its easier to get them to pick up trailers from the port and drop trailers back.

munchkin_utd wrote: »

still, this is not really competing with the ferry to Cherbourg 500km away, and unlike the link to Zeebrugge nearby, all trailers can be accompanied by truck and driver.

The landbridge takes about 20 hours including breaks and whatnot, so an alternative taking 24 hours and dropping you to literally the exact same port you arrive into on the continent isn't too much longer
Truck drivers will be able to reach the likes of Germany straight off the Ferry without needing an 11 hour rest stop midway like they would if they arrived into Cherbourg. If heading to say Poland or other eastern destinations it would be 1 big rest rather than 2, so the slightly longer stay onboard a ferry compared to a service to Cherbourg is more than compensated by that.
The 2 Saturday departures from Rosslare are also attractive as they land you up the French coast on Sunday afternoon or more importantly at midnight on Sunday when the Sunday truck bans for everything except fresh food expires!
I'd say this service will do quite well and they must have firm advance bookings already to be be able to start so many ferries on a new route.

embraer170

Kerry, Visby and Optima Seaways now confirmed as the 3 ships DFDS will use.

https://www.dfds.com/en/about/media/news/ferries-in-place

MV KERRY Built 2001 at Cantiere Navale Visentini, Italian flag Length 186.50 m Breadth 25.60 m Draft 6.50 m
Speed 23 knots Cargo capacity: 2,030 lane metres 80 cabins with 288 beds, all with private facilities Max. cargo height 5.10 m

M/S VISBY Built 2003 at the Guangzhou Shipyard Int. in China Length 196.00 m Breadth 25.67 m Draught 6.40 m Speed 26 Cargo capacity: 1,800 lane metres 92 cabins, all with private facilities Cargo height up to 5 metres

Optima Seaways Built 1999, Italy, Lithuanian flag Length 186 m Breadth 25.60 m Draught 6.50 m Speed 22 Cargo capacity 2,115 m lane metres 80 passenger cabins, all with private facilities Cargo height up to 5.00 m

Tabnabs

The Visby is an interesting ship; ice strengthened hull and, apparently, capable of doing up to 28.5 knots, flat out. The other two are a familiar design in Irish waters.

Shipboard facilities and amenities

The ship's main dining facilities include Food Market Restaurant (Restaurangtorg) and Bistro Lounge (Bistrosalong) - both located on Lounge Deck 7 (Salongdack), There is a Conference Room (located aft-portside on Lounge Deck 7) that can be booked for group meetings and conferences at sea.

The ship offers a total of four Seating Lounges fitted with comfortable reclining Pullman seats. Lounge seating prices are based on deck location:

Front Lounge (Forlig Salong / 360-degree forward views)
Economy Lounge (Ekonomisalong / midship portside- and starboard views)
Aft Lounge (Aktersalong / aft-starboard views)
Bistro Lounge (Bistrosalong / aft-portside views)

Also on Lounge Deck 7 are the ship's Information Desk (guest services) and two kids playrooms (equipped with toys and games), The ferry company doesn't provide onboard children entertainment (kids-dedicated program with specially trained staff and supervised activities). Both ship entrances (boarding areas) are also on deck 7 (forward-midship) with direct access to the Lobby area.

The ship has 3 elevators (passenger lifts) accessing all decks.

Aft on Cabin Deck 8 is the Sun Deck (outdoor/open-air deck area) accessible to passengers.


DESTINATION GOTLAND ferry ship (sister ship)

Aft-midship on top-deck (in front of the funnel) there is a helipad (helicopter landing platform) used in cases of emergency.

https://www.cruisemapper.com/ships/Visby-ferry-2048

CJhaughey

embraer170 wrote: »

On the other hand, a recent report by the IMDO (for the Department of Transport) talks about overcapacity between Ireland and France, even with Brexit and without the new DFDS route.

https://www.imdo.ie/Home/site-area/news-events/report-department-transport-re-assessment-ireland’s-maritime-connectivity

I would hazard a guess that the IMDO are squirming a bit now with the IRHA president saying that their report is incorrect..
“There are 200 odd trucks that went to the UK to try to use the land bridge, there's another 200-300 heading for Cherbourg, and some already there that are trying to get back into Ireland. As well as another 200 trying to leave Ireland to try to take product to the continent.

“I've got three factories in the south-east with €1million worth of meat product and they can't get bookings on ferries, to France and Holland.”

Ms Murphy said she had been warning for some time that the IMDO report was incorrect and also that the Stena Line ferry referenced by the Minister will not take drivers, only drop trailers.

“We have capacity currently between today and tomorrow for 90 trucks and trailers when we need 400. That statement that the Minister made that we have sufficient capacity is a miss statement, it is totally false.”

embraer170

The IMDO report was always a bit odd, and looked more like an excuse for the government to do nothing rather than take some proactive steps to protect Irish interests. For all the market forces may work most of the time, the uncertainty of Brexit puts a lot of Irish exporters in a terrible situation.

CJhaughey wrote: »

Ms Murphy said she had been warning for some time that the IMDO report was incorrect and also that the Stena Line ferry referenced by the Minister will not take drivers, only drop trailers.

The Stena Foreteller which will operate three of Stena's six weekly Cherbourg services to from early January (and apparently moved forward to tomorrow) has cabin space for about 12 drivers from a total capacity of 100+ trucks.

embraer170

Dohvolle wrote: »

If that's the same Kerry Brittany Ferries were using for the Spain route, ouch. It's a floating car park with a coffee shop basically.

Yeah it’s the same Kerry. I’m not sure freight drivers expect much more (not marketed to passenger traffic for the moment).

Is it any worse than the Stena Horizon and Irish Ferries Epsilon?

Boardnashea

I took the Epsilon late last year. Our departure was brought forward a couple of hours due to impending storm. Ross-Cher. It was a very comfortable crossing and facilities were more than enough for a booze crooze! Cap't told us to get to bed before we turned the corner at Tusker.

xper

Optima Seaways currently north of Land's End en route from Dunkirk to Rosslare. Service started early or do shipping companies carry out the equivalent of airlines' route-proofing flights?

Vic_08

xper wrote: »

Optima Seaways currently north of Land's End en route from Dunkirk to Rosslare. Service started early or do shipping companies carry out the equivalent of airlines' route-proofing flights?

Berthing trials at the ports to ensure ramp compatibility and familiarise the crew with the navigation and docking procedures.

Despite having served the port with Brittany Ferries recently, Kerry is currently in Rosslare now. Visby is in Dunkirk and due in Rosslare later this week.

RadioRetro

Link to a tweet with photos of the docking trial this morning; https://twitter.com/Rosslareuroport/status/1344216316769665026

RonanG86

I could've sworn I saw the funnel of another DFDS ferry sticking up from behind that when I was overlooking the port earlier today, but MarineTraffic still shows the Visby in Durkirk. Must be whatever way I was looking at it.

And no, it wasn't the Kerry. That was out at anchorage still sporting a Stena paintjob on the funnel.

embraer170

M/S Drotten (Visby sistership) will take over from the Optima Seaways for 2 months from the end of January. Not clear what will happen after March.

The Visby and Drotten are pretty capable ships and if run at a good speed could one day make Dunkirk to Rosslare a 2 ship operation.

embraer170

Optima departed Rosslare at 2pm today and will be followed by Kerry later this evening. Both full apparently.

AndyBoBandy

If this route proves successful for DFDS (and the sailings become over subscribed, as in every ship full to capacity), will it encourage DFDS or other companies to put more capacity on the direct Ireland-France routes?

Would that in turn lead to less demand on the U.K. - Ireland routes?

Can Stena & Irish Ferries both still compete on the Dublin-Holyhead route? or will they be fighting for scraps? They currently do what? 6 sailings each way per day?? Is that sustainable?

embraer170

Irish Ferries is the only company that has not responded with more capacity to mainland Europe except an additional weekly container service to Rotterdam.

The Dublin-UK services might also be impacted by traffic to/from Northern Ireland wishing to avoid EU territory.

AndyBoBandy

You might then have a situation in summer (if/when things are closer to normal) where passenger/vacation traffic might want more direct options to France as opposed to U.K.

I wonder if both Ulysses & WB Yeats both going to/from France together would ever pan out, meaning departures from both Dublin & Cherbourg daily, with them passing each other in the Bristol Channel..

embraer170

DFDS have not yet opened Rosslare for passenger. Even if they do (which they have said they might), cabin capacity on the Rosslare vessels is pretty limited and would be almost fully used with a decent load of accompanied freight in single driver cabins.

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

You might then have a situation in summer (if/when things are closer to normal) where passenger/vacation traffic might want more direct options to France as opposed to U.K.

I wonder if both Ulysses & WB Yeats both going to/from France together would ever pan out, meaning departures from both Dublin & Cherbourg daily, with them passing each other in the Bristol Channel..

Ulysses is not suitable for French routes with too few cabins. I would instead imagine a WB Yeats and Epsilon combination in the summer (instead of Epsilon moving to summer UK traffic).

Irish Ferries have also fully given up on Rosslare-France after Oscar Wilde left the fleet.

RonanG86

A bit of ferry stacking going on down there at the moment.

Isle of Inishmore, Visby and the Stena Foreteller docked with the Stena Horizon and the Connemara out at anchorage. Optima Seaways due to arrive in a couple of hours too.

Holidayed down there every summer until about 2005 and I think I only saw 5 ferries there at the same time once. And that was back when the evening Stena and Irish Ferries services arrived within about half an hour of each other and consequently both would be in port at the same time. Have now seen it twice since the 1st of January.

Surely they're getting close to needing new a berth to add any more regular services?

Dohvolle

Dohvolle wrote: »

Freight is cheaper for the carrier. Truck drivers usually just want good grub, good rest, wifi and a comfy spot to enjoy a beer or two. Show me where my cabin is, I'll find the cafe, and the bar, I've done this before. A lot.
Normal passenger transport require more cleaners, more housekeeping, more entertainment for kiddies, a safe space for them to roam free (because nobody does parental responsibility any more) and basically more staff headaches.
Freight ferry can get away with shore based contract cleaners. Passenger ferry requires cleaners to work onboard before during and after trip.

Also less passengers, less staff members needed for safety (Muster Duties).

embraer170

The existing Stena Horizon and Irish Ferries Epsilon (and BF Connemara) services hardly offer much for passengers so I don't think DFDS would be so different or a surprise.

Del2005

embraer170 wrote: »

DFDS have not yet opened Rosslare for passenger. Even if they do (which they have said they might), cabin capacity on the Rosslare vessels is pretty limited and would be almost fully used with a decent load of accompanied freight in single driver cabins.

I'd say not many drivers will go on this route, they'll just drop the trailers at the port and pick up the returns. 2 days lost driving when getting paid feck all is a big hit.

CJhaughey

CLDN have added a new Cork-Zeebrugge route for unaccompanied freight.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-40202513.html

embraer170

Plenty of interesting news in recent days.

WB Yeats switching with Epsilon and taking over the Cherbourg route for three weeks.

And a few Epsilon UK services this weekend cancelled and replaced with an additional Cherbourg departure on Friday.

Jim Gazebo

Rosslare is surely over capacity now? One strong gale down there and 3/4 ships looking to come in, skippers not used to it, it's very exposed... Hopefully they've thought of all that as well. Could get messy..

Tabnabs

I wouldn't worry so much about the skippers ability, but more about the ability to effectively stack all the trucks now on this route. The local road network must be an issue also. Some videos on social media of significant tail backs already. A few cancelled sailings from bad weather and there'll be a big mess both in the port and on the access road.

RonanG86

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

Rosslare is surely over capacity now? One strong gale down there and 3/4 ships looking to come in, skippers not used to it, it's very exposed... Hopefully they've thought of all that as well. Could get messy..

The anchorage is getting a lot of use, but they do space them out when they're there. Example from the ship porn thread: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115766823&postcount=1842

The Stena Foreteller in the background of that shot was actually North of Rosslare point when that picture was taken.

The quite large Stena Embla was there on Wednesday, it's taking over the France route whilst the Horizon is down for maintenance. But apparently the Horizon will be replaced long-term by the Estrid, which is the same size as the Embla, due to the extra demand on the route: https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2021/0113/1189595-stena-line-ferry/

Whilst obviously they need the size, that's a fully loaded passenger ferry with all the facilities. Wonder about the efficiency of that for a route that's largely freight traffic.

Jim Gazebo

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

Rosslare is surely over capacity now? One strong gale down there and 3/4 ships looking to come in, skippers not used to it, it's very exposed... Hopefully they've thought of all that as well. Could get messy..

I used to work on the French route 20 years ago, and whilst the English ships would berth in bad weather, the French boat always went out in it, that's the thing about Rosslare, it's a deep sea harbour, in bad weather when the UK boats tied up, we had to steam up the Irish Sea and wait and let the bad weather pass, and when it came to turning the ship, we had to ring down to the restaurants to give them a warning.

Rosslare will be fine, if they schedule it right, and so far it looks like they are covering themselves regarding the existing schedules.

I was speaking to my brother who's a truck driver and has been on the DFDS boats, and he's saying that the French route is fully subscribed, he also mentioned that there is way loads more of Northern Irish reg Hauliers using the route who would have normally used landbridge.

Have to say it's great to see Rosslare flourish.

RadioRetro

Brittany Ferries swapping to a larger vessel according to a local paper reporter...

https://twitter.com/byrne_padraig/status/1350378189101662208

vicwatson

Tabnabs wrote: »

I wouldn't worry so much about the skippers ability, but more about the ability to effectively stack all the trucks now on this route. The local road network must be an issue also. Some videos on social media of significant tail backs already. A few cancelled sailings from bad weather and there'll be a big mess both in the port and on the access road.

Not true

That was a once off, things are flowing very freely down there, and no issue with road access

vicwatson

Dohvolle wrote: »

The road from the Ferry Terminal to the New Ross Rd roundabout is not fit for purpose. It wasn't before, it isn't now. Barntown needs to be bypassed too, for their own sake.
Also, how long before RNLI operations are impacted by Rosslare Port operations?

Most of the time this road you refer to is dead

Larbre34

vicwatson wrote: »

Not true

That was a once off, things are flowing very freely down there, and no issue with road access

Strange, I was talking to a pal earlier who lives in Broadway and works in Rosslare Harbour and he said its getting busy and there is considerable concern about the ability of the road network to cope when normal freight levels return.

I'm quite sure the people in Kilrane and Tagoat and Killinick will be concerned.

Time to get the M11/M25 final section plotted and built asap.

vicwatson

Larbre34 wrote: »

Strange, I was talking to a pal earlier who lives in Broadway and works in Rosslare Harbour and he said its getting busy and there is considerable concern about the ability of the road network to cope when normal freight levels return.

I'm quite sure the people in Kilrane and Tagoat and Killinick will be concerned.

Time to get the M11/M25 final section plotted and built asap.

Won’t happen for years

No concern about the road network

Jim Gazebo

NoDrama wrote: »

I used to work on the French route 20 years ago, and whilst the English ships would berth in bad weather, the French boat always went out in it, that's the thing about Rosslare, it's a deep sea harbour, in bad weather when the UK boats tied up, we had to steam up the Irish Sea and wait and let the bad weather pass, and when it came to turning the ship, we had to ring down to the restaurants to give them a warning.

Rosslare will be fine, if they schedule it right, and so far it looks like they are covering themselves regarding the existing schedules.

I was speaking to my brother who's a truck driver and has been on the DFDS boats, and he's saying that the French route is fully subscribed, he also mentioned that there is way loads more of Northern Irish reg Hauliers using the route who would have normally used landbridge.

Have to say it's great to see Rosslare flourish.

Totally agree about flourishing, I just know the way it is exposed and with so many extra new vessels, and then the pressure not to be the one that says I'm not going in today. I just hope they've thought ahead that's all regarding risk assessments for having so many ships down there.

Larbre34

vicwatson wrote: »

Won’t happen for years

No concern about the road network

With 40 odd sailings per week to the Continent alone once things get fully up to speed, on top of the return of private tourist traffic using these services, I really don't know how you can say that. Not just the capacity of the roads, but the safety aspects and road surface deterioration as well as insufficient stacking space in the Harbour.

Putting your head in the sand about all of this is just foolish.

Tabnabs

Look at the A55 in Anglesey. A road that was for years a problem with traffic to and from the port, until it was upgraded to a dual carriageway. If the current levels of freight are continued and then once passenger traffic returns, anyone saying it's grand is deluding themselves. Why are there long-standing plans to upgrade the road before the recent boom if the current road capacity is fine?

AndyBoBandy

Thankfully plans are afoot to improve the access to/from the port (it was posted in another thread)

https://oilgate2rosslareharbour.ie
(watch the video, it's great)

And it looks like they are going about it the right way, looking for input from all the stakeholders.

Vic_08

Larbre34 wrote: »

With 40 odd sailings per week to the Continent alone once things get fully up to speed, on top of the return of private tourist traffic using these services, I really don't know how you can say that. Not just the capacity of the roads, but the safety aspects and road surface deterioration as well as insufficient stacking space in the Harbour.

Putting your head in the sand about all of this is just foolish.

Making up numbers to make out there is some impending crisis is equally foolish.

Where are you getting 40 continental sailings from? there are less than 20 a week (6 DFDS, 6 Stena, 1 Brittany to France, 2 Brittany to Spain). On average only 1.5 extra sailings a day on previous Rosslare numbers.

If, and it is a big if, the shift away from ROI-UK traffic is permanent it will also mean a reduction in traffic for the 4 daily Rosslare-UK sailings or even a reduction in those sailings/routes.

A plan is already in place to provide a new freight access and handling to the port to the north of the current route bypassing the harbour village.

It is way too soon to know how much traffic will permanently route directly to the continent and how much shipping will be needed to sustain it, these extra services may not all survive long term.

RadioRetro

Another "We're gonna need a bigger boat" feeling comes to pass in Rosslare Harbour...

https://twitter.com/Rosslareuroport/status/1351213637122318337

CJhaughey

Dohvolle wrote: »

It's interesting that for years Cork struggled to get a functioning cruise ferry on the Cork-Roscoff route (summer only) and was looking forward to an upgrade, when the newer ferries were reshuffled, then in the space of a few weeks, Rosslare gets Cap straight from full refit??

In fairness the Pont Aven is not a shabby boat though!

neris

Wonder if theres extra demand beyond whats available now for Ireland France will Rosslare struggle for capacity and see that demand being passed back to Dublin or onto Cork.

Larbre34

Dohvolle wrote: »

No, but there are better ships doing shorter routes within the company.

It might be interesting but its not surprising. Putting Cap F on the Rosslare service makes absolute sense from every perspective. Shorter crossing, huge freight demand so always high load factor, the route will be massively profitable.

Cork is just a seasonal tourist route really. Families heading to campsites in France.

Vic_08

Larbre34 wrote: »

It might be interesting but its not surprising. Putting Cap F on the Rosslare service makes absolute sense from every perspective. Shorter crossing, huge freight demand so always high load factor, the route will be massively profitable.

Cap Finestre is only covering Rosslare for a few weeks while Connemara fills in on their Poole service which is constrained by size limits in Poole Harbour.

Even though it is a larger ship and has better passenger facilities Cap has a lower freight capacity than Connemara.