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Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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Comments

  • #3402
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,551 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    So why would so called branded/premium producers put their prices up, instead of welcoming in all those who drank cheaper stuff before MUP.

    Same reason Heneken Ireland wouldn't supply Wetherspoons with Heineken, but were happy to supply them with Amstel

    They didn't want their "premium" brand being cheapened by being sold at a non-premium price. Simple as that. The big brewers have their low, mid and high priced brands and many of them have craft brands above that. If the price level of your lowest priced brand rises, you have to maintain the price differential to the next brand up, to persuade the drinker that if X is dearer than Y then X must be better. It's basic marketing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaD8y-CGhMw

    Scrap the cap!



  • #3403
    McMurphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Same reason Heneken Ireland wouldn't supply Wetherspoons with Heineken, but were happy to supply them with Amstel

    They didn't want their "premium" brand being cheapened by being sold at a non-premium price. Simple as that. The big brewers have their low, mid and high priced brands and many of them have craft brands above that. If the price level of your lowest priced brand rises, you have to maintain the price differential to the next brand up, to persuade the drinker that if X is dearer than Y then X must be better. It's basic marketing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaD8y-CGhMw

    In a nutshell.

    The lads thinking they'll be unaffected by this sop because they sup malbec with their Foie gras are only codding themselves and no one else.


  • #3404
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,639 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    All the predictions about craft (and other drink types perceived to be premium) rising in tandem is a bit of a surmise that has yet to be tested.

    As pointed out already, craft beer drinkers, for example, already pay quite a relative premium for off sales already.

    There's no guarantee at all that producers or retailers will up the price even more and risk sales volume, especially for a nascent market.

    It's also a bit silly to say craft beer drinkers will want to distinguish what they buy from cheap stuff by paying a higher premium.

    I'm a craft beer drinker, and already pay above odds. I don't give a titty **** how higher it's priced than Galahad lager. If craft beer was cheaper than Polish lager I'd be delighted. I don't buy the beer I do because of how its perceived, only because I like it. Ditto I don't drink cheap lager because I don't like it, not because its seen as cheap.


  • #3405
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    You don't support government interference in healthcare but you're happy to have them interfere in pricing. Why?

    Because they do interfere in healthcare. Of course that is just one of a number of reasons.


  • #3406
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    VinLieger wrote: »
    So you are for a completely privatized healthcare system but also pro wide ranging government interference and price fixing?


    Those are two mutually exclusive positions.

    I grant you that if the government were to get out of the healthcare industry, I would have fewer reasons for supporting the MUP. But as things stand, the government are involved in healthcare.


  • #3407
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Inelastic, yes. But not zero. So consumption reduces as price rises.

    Ireland has some of the world's highest prices so why is our consumption not lower...Why do plenty of countries with cheaper booze (such as.....most other countries) have much lower consumption rates?

    That question misunderstands price elasticity, which is the response of a given market to a change in price in that market. It does not describe the differences between markets.


  • #3408
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    That question misunderstands price elasticity, which is the response of a given market to a change in price in that market. It does not describe the differences between markets.

    And it has shown that the effects of this is negligible


  • #3409
    squawker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 501 ✭✭✭squawker


    Brew your own lads

    its extremely easy, 40 pints for €15

    sure it takes time, but once you get over the beginner stage

    you will never buy that swill from the off-licence or Public house again


  • #3410
    kerryjack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭kerryjack


    squawker wrote: »
    Brew your own lads

    its extremely easy, 40 pints for €15

    sure it takes time, but once you get over the beginner stage

    you will never buy that swill from the off-licence or Public house again
    Its certainly worth considering if you could get a few like minded people together and build a mancave with pool table and dart board and start brewing your own beer, could be a little business for the likes of your self giving courses to home brewers . Is it legal to brew your own beer in this country.


  • #3411
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,307 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    kerryjack wrote: »
    s it legal to brew your own beer in this country.


    Yup its perfectly legal as well as brewing your own wine, you just can't sell it


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  • #3412
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,307 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    I grant you that if the government were to get out of the healthcare industry, I would have fewer reasons for supporting the MUP. But as things stand, the government are involved in healthcare.


    Private only healthcare has been proven to absolutely not work, America is the best/worst example of this.


    You are all over the map with your opinions with each one being completely incompatible with the previous. Theres no question anymore that you are simply trolling.


  • #3413
    BobMc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭BobMc


    I concur on the homebrew, When I first stumbled upon this thread it gave me the idea to return to brewing (we tried it in our late teens, now some +20yrs later)

    I've never looked back, only rarely now do I treat my self to a few from the offie, and thats usually for recipe research

    With skill and practice you can easily knock out stuff thats far better than any swill you can buy


  • #3414
    kerryjack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭kerryjack


    Is there a home brewing forum and if not could we set one up


  • #3415
    McMurphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    kerryjack wrote: »
    Is there a home brewing forum and if not could we set one up

    here


  • #3416
    elperello
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,605 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Anger, Denial, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance.

    We seem to be in the bargaining stage now. :)


  • #3417
    kerryjack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭kerryjack


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    kerryjack wrote: »
    Is there a home brewing forum and if not could we set one up

    here
    Ta


  • #3418
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,551 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    andekwarhola wrote: »
    I'm a craft beer drinker, and already pay above odds. I don't give a titty **** how higher it's priced than Galahad lager. If craft beer was cheaper than Polish lager I'd be delighted. I don't buy the beer I do because of how its perceived, only because I like it. Ditto I don't drink cheap lager because I don't like it, not because its seen as cheap.

    Like it or not, marketing works. It may or may not work on you, but taking the population as a whole it does work. There's a reason Heineken is substantially dearer than Dutch Gold and it's not because of taxation or the ingredients.

    Scrap the cap!



  • #3419
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,550 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    naughtb4 wrote: »
    A bit I am missing on this, is the minimum pricing on what the drinks company can sell to the supermarkets at, or what the supermarkets can sell for?
    Technically speaking it's the retail price. But expect Diageo & co. to up the price a bit simply because they can. Then again most of the "premium" brands are already at or above the MUP so it'll be the "Dutch Gold" that will go up.

    And no it doesn't cost much more to make a premium lagers so all this means is that they'll get as much profit on the cheap stuff as on the premium stuff.

    The supermarkets will make a lot more profit on own brand stuff sourced on the continent.


  • #3420
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    One of the most pathetic things about this is that public consumption has been going down for 20 solid years, and in younger demographics we are apparently on the mid to lower end in the EU.

    As a smoker I don't mind at all what they have done with the cost of cigarettes in the last 10-15 years, but I only drink maybe 3-4 times a year so don't even have any vested interest in the cost of alcohol and just cannot find any decent excuse for it beyond politicians being out of touch by thinking the Vintners have a lot more sway than they actually do (or at least should) in this day and age.


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  • #3421
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    squawker wrote: »
    Brew your own lads

    its extremely easy, 40 pints for €15

    sure it takes time, but once you get over the beginner stage

    you will never buy that swill from the off-licence or Public house again

    Plus, you could sit for hours watching it ferment. Sometimes the inside of the carboy looks like that giant storm on Jupiter.


  • #3422
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Like it or not, marketing works. It may or may not work on you, but taking the population as a whole it does work. There's a reason Heineken is substantially dearer than Dutch Gold and it's not because of taxation or the ingredients.

    Agreed re Heineken and most mainstream brands.

    Craft beer is a little different though, particularly the Irish stuff, as the economics are just very different. They don't get anywhere near the economies of scale as the big international brands, so the average unit cost is just far higher. There's also the fact that they tend to attract much more excise as they're higher percentage than the macro lagers.

    I do agreed that they'll probably still be priced at a premium to the bottom tier, but I think the gap will shrink significantly.


  • #3423
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Ipso wrote: »
    Plus, you could sit for hours watching it ferment. Sometimes the inside of the carboy looks like that giant storm on Jupiter.

    When I get good enough I'm moving to a glass or PET carboy (using a plastic bucket atm) just for this alone. Time lapses on YouTube make it look incredible.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWbMpkeKUoE


  • #3424
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    On an industrial scale.


  • #3425
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,536 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Amirani wrote: »
    Agreed re Heineken and most mainstream brands.

    Craft beer is a little different though, particularly the stuff, as the economics are just very different. They don't get anywhere near the economies of scale as the big international brands, so the average unit cost is just far higher. There's also the fact that they tend to attract much more excise as they're higher percentage than the macro lagers.

    I do agreed that they'll probably still be priced at a premium to the bottom tier, but I think the gap will shrink significantly.

    while this is true in general microbreweries get 50% relief on excise duty for the beer they produce.


  • #3426
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Private only healthcare has been proven to absolutely not work, America is the best/worst example of this.


    You are all over the map with your opinions with each one being completely incompatible with the previous. Theres no question anymore that you are simply trolling.

    Private healthcare works a treat as any true capitalist will tell you. Public and public/private mongrels are a total failure. Constant cribbing about our health service has gone on for as long as I can remember yet people are so wedded to idea of public involvement in healthcare that they cannot see that it is the reason for every failure. In fact, the only time they stop criticizing the health service is when total privatization is mentioned. This shows ideologue mass delusion is widespread in Irish society.

    Returning to topic, you seem to be very much in favour of cheap booze and opposed to those of us who favour a MUP. I get that you probably enjoy a drink and like to get it cheap. In contrast, I and all of sobriety society will enjoy smug satisfaction at your expense when the MUP is introduced. That`s just how is is.


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  • #3427
    Kirby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Private healthcare works a treat as any true capitalist will tell you. Public and public/private mongrels are a total failure. Constant cribbing about our health service has gone on for as long as I can remember yet people are so wedded to idea of public involvement in healthcare that they cannot see that it is the reason for every failure. In fact, the only time they stop criticizing the health service is when total privatization is mentioned. This shows ideologue mass delusion is widespread in Irish society.

    Returning to topic, you seem to be very much in favour of cheap booze and opposed to those of us who favour a MUP. I get that you probably enjoy a drink and like to get it cheap. In contrast, I and all of sobriety society will enjoy smug satisfaction at your expense when the MUP is introduced. That`s just how is is.

    The most successful healthcare systems in the world are all public and goverment funded. Privatised healthcare doesn't work. The shambles that is the US healthcare system is a good example.

    This isn't a matter of opinion. You are simply wrong. He's right.


  • #3428
    Checkmate19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Checkmate19


    Saying private healthcare is the way forward is really a silly statement. The best healthcare systems are a mixture of both.


  • #3429
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,582 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    realitykeeper wrote: »

    Returning to topic, you seem to be very much in favour of cheap booze and opposed to those of us who favour a MUP. I get that you probably enjoy a drink and like to get it cheap. In contrast, I and all of sobriety society will enjoy smug satisfaction at your expense when the MUP is introduced. That`s just how is is.

    The booze you refer to as "cheap" would be regarded as anything but cheap in most European countries - countries which have less problems with alcohol than Ireland. Do you "and all of sobriety society" have any idea of how you're being played for fools by the publicans?


  • #3430
    Checkmate19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Checkmate19


    Ireland does not have cheap booze compared to most of europe. That's a myth.


  • #3431
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Ipso wrote: »
    On an industrial scale.

    How do they manage to do it open like this (and not in a special laboratory-esque sterile room) and not get infections? O_o


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  • #3432
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,971 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    How do they manage to do it open like this (and not in a special laboratory-esque sterile room) and not get infections? O_o

    They market it as "unfiltered" and snap up some unsuspecting foodies.


  • #3433
    Johnnycanyon
    Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭Johnnycanyon


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    Perhaps when the Brits leave the EU people will be able to get all the cheap alcohol they want on duty free day trips to Hollyhead?


  • #3434
    Balanadan
    Site Banned Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Balanadan


    I would've thought that the biggest problem of alcohol abuse in Ireland these days isn't amongst those who can only afford to consume the cheapest of drink, but the middle class who sit down in the evenings after work for a glass of wine or a gin and tonic.


  • #3435
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Balanadan wrote: »
    I would've thought that the biggest problem of alcohol abuse in Ireland these days isn't amongst those who can only afford to consume the cheapest of drink, but the middle class who sit down in the evenings after work for a glass of wine or a gin and tonic.

    Yes but they're not the ones who have sessions which lead the city at night to be treated like a city and not a rural location where everything gets empty and quiet after dark, so naturally they're not the ones being targeted.


  • #3436
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    How do they manage to do it open like this (and not in a special laboratory-esque sterile room) and not get infections? O_o

    Supposedly it used to be a common technique, Bigfoot is quite a strong beer so maybe once it gets going the alcohol fights of any nasties.


  • #3437
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Kirby wrote: »
    The most successful healthcare systems in the world are all public and goverment funded. Privatised healthcare doesn't work. The shambles that is the US healthcare system is a good example.

    This isn't a matter of opinion. You are simply wrong. He's right.

    We could argue "he is", "he isn`t", all day but I prefer intelligent conversation. Now back to topic please.


  • #3438
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    The booze you refer to as "cheap" would be regarded as anything but cheap in most European countries - countries which have less problems with alcohol than Ireland. Do you "and all of sobriety society" have any idea of how you're being played for fools by the publicans?

    Do you know what sobriety means?


  • #3439
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    The absence of a complete ban on all drug pushing/advertising from the purveyors of the drug known as alcohol speaks volumes for how serious this state is about tackling the social consequences of alcoholism. Not at all is the answer.

    To actually give these drug dealers such high profile platforms to peddle their socially destructive propaganda beggars belief.


  • #3440
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Balanadan wrote: »
    I would've thought that the biggest problem of alcohol abuse in Ireland these days isn't amongst those who can only afford to consume the cheapest of drink, but the middle class who sit down in the evenings after work for a glass of wine or a gin and tonic.

    No, its the other way around. The middle class people with their g&t or glass of wine can handle their drink. Its the problem of the lower classes with their slabs of bargain basement price alcohol that mup is tackling. Different standards of education, culture, and self control leave the mup customer much more vulnerable to inflicting on themselves, and upon wider society, the harm of alcohol consumption.
    Having said that though, its all relative - any alcohol is harmful - so the middle classes sipping their Beaune has nothing to congratulate itself for. They are damaging their health too.
    But the mup legislation will still be effective in protecting the most vulnerable.


  • #3441
    mistersifter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    No, its the other way around. The middle class people with their g&t or glass of wine can handle their drink. Its the problem of the lower classes with their slabs of bargain basement price alcohol that mup is tackling. Different standards of education, culture, and self control leave the mup customer much more vulnerable to inflicting on themselves, and upon wider society, the harm of alcohol consumption.
    Having said that though, its all relative - any alcohol is harmful - so the middle classes sipping their Beaune has nothing to congratulate itself for. They are damaging their health too.
    But the mup legislation will still be effective in protecting the most vulnerable.

    "The middle classes" can handle their drink but the lower classes cant control themselves and are mad for their slabs of alcohol?! You wouldn't be a fan of stereotyping people at all now would ye?

    Very possibly the most snobbish comment I've ever read on boards.:D:D:D:D


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  • #3442
    mistersifter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    No, its the other way around. The middle class people with their g&t or glass of wine can handle their drink. Its the problem of the lower classes with their slabs of bargain basement price alcohol that mup is tackling. Different standards of education, culture, and self control leave the mup customer much more vulnerable to inflicting on themselves, and upon wider society, the harm of alcohol consumption.
    Having said that though, its all relative - any alcohol is harmful - so the middle classes sipping their Beaune has nothing to congratulate itself for. They are damaging their health too.
    But the mup legislation will still be effective in protecting the most vulnerable.

    "The middle classes" can handle their drink but the lower classes cant control themselves and are mad for their slabs of alcohol?! You wouldn't be a fan of stereotyping people at all now would ya?

    Very possibly the most snobbish comment I've ever read on boards.:D:D:D:D


  • #3443
    Checkmate19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Checkmate19


    Without a doubt the snobbish thing I have ever read. What a thing to say.


  • #3444
    Reputable Rog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭Reputable Rog


    Checkmate19 wrote: »
    Without a doubt the snobbish thing I have ever read. What a thing to say.

    I reported it because I think it's a deliberate discriminatory and trolling comment. The mods obviously don't care.


  • #3445
    Checkmate19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Checkmate19


    Reporting that comment is a bit over the top. Must have hit a nerve.


  • #3446
    Checkmate19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Checkmate19


    Thats a trolling comment but saying only poor cheap excessive and cheap drink is not. Can't have it both ways.


  • #3447
    Reputable Rog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭Reputable Rog


    Checkmate19 wrote: »
    Reporting that comment is a bit over the top. Must have hit a nerve.

    Yes stereotyping people based on their means really hits a nerve with me. It was an appalling comment and shouldn't be tolerated.


  • #3448
    Checkmate19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Checkmate19


    Yes and that's what i was commenting on. I was saying it was snobbish. I hate people slaging off other's over there means. It go's on a lot on these boards and is unwarranted.


  • #3449
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,285 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    mistersifter wrote: »
    "The middle classes" can handle their drink but the lower classes cant control themselves and are mad for their slabs of alcohol?! You wouldn't be a fan of stereotyping people at all now would ya?

    Ah is it just me or it that not the attitude underlying this MUP legislation?
    You can drink as much as you want, once you can pay for it?
    It's the slabs of beer this legislation is after, not your cru Bordeaux.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #3450
    elperello
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,605 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    That's exactly what it means.

    People who currently drink craft beer and fine wine will not pay a penny extra.
    Those who like a can of lager and a bottle of plonk from the supermarket will be hit.

    Well off unaffected, less well off forced to modify their drinking or pay extra.


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  • #3451
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    Reputable Rog wrote: »
    I reported it because I think it's a deliberate discriminatory and trolling comment. The mods obviously don't care.

    Or maybe it's not that offensive.


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