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Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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Comments

  • #3332
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,108 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    FactCheck: Is minimum unit alcohol pricing "proven" to work?
    Health Promotion Minister Marcella Corcoran Kennedy made a big claim about the effectiveness of the government’s alcohol policy, this week. We tested it.

    In a debate on TV3′s Tonight With Vincent Browne on Monday, Junior Minister Marcella Corcoran Kennedy claimed that the policy has been “proven to work” in other jurisdictions, citing the example of British Columbia in Canada.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/minimum-unit-pricing-alcohol-ireland-facts-2932210-Aug2016/


  • #3333
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    joe40 wrote: »
    I don't particularly care what fine gael put into manifesto to try to get votes. Like all political parties they will promise all things to all people.

    The fact remains this measure was introduced in Scotland as a "public health initiative" not a sop to publicans, so there must have been some research into whether it would be effective or not. By effective I mean have some impact, not a cure for all ills.

    So lets just assume that Scotland have done the research for us? :o

    MUP benefits Publicans and Drinks Companies more than anyone else


  • #3334
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,217 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    joe40 wrote: »
    People also keep saying this will raise the price of all drinks, as if it is a foregone conclusion. I understand the reasoning, but don't believe that will happen. Retailers will still price their product to sell.

    If the likes of Heineken, bud or craft beers currently selling above MUP could command a higher price, they would be doing so already.

    I just don't accept the argument their price will automatically go up in line with price increases elsewhere.

    I think the clue is in the title. It is MAP. The government is setting the lowest level at which a lager (for example) can be sold. Once a floor is set, lowest price is no longer a factor.

    But there is no upper price. It is why the craft beers sell for far more the lies of Dutch Gold. Simply because the consumer is willing to pay more for that they perceive to be a better product.

    Now, in the short term prices probably won't rise, but after a few months the new price will be factored in by the consumer and they will return to their old habits. So they will again be prepared to pay a premium for the Craft Beer. Thus the Craft beer would be made to maintain the old price as now the 'market' price as increased.

    It might take longer that a few months, I don't know, but it will happen. Just as the price inevitably moves towards €1 instead of .79p after the changeover. It is simply repositition the value of value within the market.


  • #3335
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭joe40


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    FactCheck: Is minimum unit alcohol pricing "proven" to work?
    Health Promotion Minister Marcella Corcoran Kennedy made a big claim about the effectiveness of the government’s alcohol policy, this week. We tested it.

    In a debate on TV3′s Tonight With Vincent Browne on Monday, Junior Minister Marcella Corcoran Kennedy claimed that the policy has been “proven to work” in other jurisdictions, citing the example of British Columbia in Canada.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/minimum-unit-pricing-alcohol-ireland-facts-2932210-Aug2016/

    I just read that full article (granted it was a skim reading). It is very good and to be honest has put a bit of a dent in my argument, but since this is the internet I have to persevere.

    Busy now I'll get back!!


  • #3336
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,155 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Am I misssing something or what?

    Surely if a premium product is in or around the same price as cheap stuff after MUP, then drinkers will buy the branded/premium stuff. Wouldn't they?

    So why would so called branded/premium producers put their prices up, instead of welcoming in all those who drank cheaper stuff before MUP. Win win.

    I hasten to add that I am not in favour of the Nanny State of which MUP is but one aspect at all, and it is creeping in to all aspects of our lives. But that's another topic, although associated with this one.


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  • #3337
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    A bit I am missing on this, is the minimum pricing on what the drinks company can sell to the supermarkets at, or what the supermarkets can sell for?


  • #3338
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,108 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    What the supermarkets/off licences can sell for


  • #3339
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,108 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Alcohol Bill passes through all stages of Oireachtas

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/alcohol-bill-passes-through-all-stages-of-oireachtas-874984.html

    Once Michael D signs the bill I wonder when prices will go up?


  • #3340
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,332 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    Alcohol Bill passes through all stages of Oireachtas

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/alcohol-bill-passes-through-all-stages-of-oireachtas-874984.html

    Once Michael D signs the bill I wonder when prices will go up?


    I think its still going to be held until NI brings in similar to avoid cross border shenanigans, also theres bound to be EU appeals as this can be argued to breach competition laws


  • #3341
    McMurphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    The govt looks to be in pretty shaky grounds right now, what with Naughten and Fitzpatrick gone.

    Imagine them knocking on doors for an election hot on the heels of this blatant sop. :)


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  • #3342
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,499 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    The govt looks to be in pretty shaky grounds right now, what with Naughten and Fitzpatrick gone.

    Imagine them knocking on doors for an election hot on the heels of this blatant sop. :)

    This Bill alone could put them out.


    You don't fck with an Irishman and his drink.


  • #3343
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,108 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Only issue is who do you vote for that hasn't had a part in passing this bill? :(


  • #3344
    Checkmate19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Checkmate19


    Well for one you don't vote for fine gael as it was their idea. Brought in the back of a health bill but really to as they said in their manifesto support pubs.


  • #3345
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,851 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    So why would so called branded/premium producers put their prices up, instead of welcoming in all those who drank cheaper stuff before MUP.

    Same reason Heneken Ireland wouldn't supply Wetherspoons with Heineken, but were happy to supply them with Amstel

    They didn't want their "premium" brand being cheapened by being sold at a non-premium price. Simple as that. The big brewers have their low, mid and high priced brands and many of them have craft brands above that. If the price level of your lowest priced brand rises, you have to maintain the price differential to the next brand up, to persuade the drinker that if X is dearer than Y then X must be better. It's basic marketing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaD8y-CGhMw

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • #3346
    McMurphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Same reason Heneken Ireland wouldn't supply Wetherspoons with Heineken, but were happy to supply them with Amstel

    They didn't want their "premium" brand being cheapened by being sold at a non-premium price. Simple as that. The big brewers have their low, mid and high priced brands and many of them have craft brands above that. If the price level of your lowest priced brand rises, you have to maintain the price differential to the next brand up, to persuade the drinker that if X is dearer than Y then X must be better. It's basic marketing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaD8y-CGhMw

    In a nutshell.

    The lads thinking they'll be unaffected by this sop because they sup malbec with their Foie gras are only codding themselves and no one else.


  • #3347
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,647 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    All the predictions about craft (and other drink types perceived to be premium) rising in tandem is a bit of a surmise that has yet to be tested.

    As pointed out already, craft beer drinkers, for example, already pay quite a relative premium for off sales already.

    There's no guarantee at all that producers or retailers will up the price even more and risk sales volume, especially for a nascent market.

    It's also a bit silly to say craft beer drinkers will want to distinguish what they buy from cheap stuff by paying a higher premium.

    I'm a craft beer drinker, and already pay above odds. I don't give a titty **** how higher it's priced than Galahad lager. If craft beer was cheaper than Polish lager I'd be delighted. I don't buy the beer I do because of how its perceived, only because I like it. Ditto I don't drink cheap lager because I don't like it, not because its seen as cheap.


  • #3348
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    You don't support government interference in healthcare but you're happy to have them interfere in pricing. Why?

    Because they do interfere in healthcare. Of course that is just one of a number of reasons.


  • #3349
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    VinLieger wrote: »
    So you are for a completely privatized healthcare system but also pro wide ranging government interference and price fixing?


    Those are two mutually exclusive positions.

    I grant you that if the government were to get out of the healthcare industry, I would have fewer reasons for supporting the MUP. But as things stand, the government are involved in healthcare.


  • #3350
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Inelastic, yes. But not zero. So consumption reduces as price rises.

    Ireland has some of the world's highest prices so why is our consumption not lower...Why do plenty of countries with cheaper booze (such as.....most other countries) have much lower consumption rates?

    That question misunderstands price elasticity, which is the response of a given market to a change in price in that market. It does not describe the differences between markets.


  • #3351
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    That question misunderstands price elasticity, which is the response of a given market to a change in price in that market. It does not describe the differences between markets.

    And it has shown that the effects of this is negligible


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  • #3352
    squawker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 501 ✭✭✭squawker


    Brew your own lads

    its extremely easy, 40 pints for €15

    sure it takes time, but once you get over the beginner stage

    you will never buy that swill from the off-licence or Public house again


  • #3353
    kerryjack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,655 ✭✭✭kerryjack


    squawker wrote: »
    Brew your own lads

    its extremely easy, 40 pints for €15

    sure it takes time, but once you get over the beginner stage

    you will never buy that swill from the off-licence or Public house again
    Its certainly worth considering if you could get a few like minded people together and build a mancave with pool table and dart board and start brewing your own beer, could be a little business for the likes of your self giving courses to home brewers . Is it legal to brew your own beer in this country.


  • #3354
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,332 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    kerryjack wrote: »
    s it legal to brew your own beer in this country.


    Yup its perfectly legal as well as brewing your own wine, you just can't sell it


  • #3355
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,332 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    I grant you that if the government were to get out of the healthcare industry, I would have fewer reasons for supporting the MUP. But as things stand, the government are involved in healthcare.


    Private only healthcare has been proven to absolutely not work, America is the best/worst example of this.


    You are all over the map with your opinions with each one being completely incompatible with the previous. Theres no question anymore that you are simply trolling.


  • #3356
    BobMc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭BobMc


    I concur on the homebrew, When I first stumbled upon this thread it gave me the idea to return to brewing (we tried it in our late teens, now some +20yrs later)

    I've never looked back, only rarely now do I treat my self to a few from the offie, and thats usually for recipe research

    With skill and practice you can easily knock out stuff thats far better than any swill you can buy


  • #3357
    kerryjack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,655 ✭✭✭kerryjack


    Is there a home brewing forum and if not could we set one up


  • #3358
    McMurphy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    kerryjack wrote: »
    Is there a home brewing forum and if not could we set one up

    here


  • #3359
    elperello
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,305 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Anger, Denial, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance.

    We seem to be in the bargaining stage now. :)


  • #3360
    kerryjack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,655 ✭✭✭kerryjack


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    kerryjack wrote: »
    Is there a home brewing forum and if not could we set one up

    here
    Ta


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  • #3361
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,851 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    andekwarhola wrote: »
    I'm a craft beer drinker, and already pay above odds. I don't give a titty **** how higher it's priced than Galahad lager. If craft beer was cheaper than Polish lager I'd be delighted. I don't buy the beer I do because of how its perceived, only because I like it. Ditto I don't drink cheap lager because I don't like it, not because its seen as cheap.

    Like it or not, marketing works. It may or may not work on you, but taking the population as a whole it does work. There's a reason Heineken is substantially dearer than Dutch Gold and it's not because of taxation or the ingredients.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



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