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Shannon Airport synoptic weather station siting
Comments
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Wouldn't normally post in this forum but this thread has irritated me a little
(Next paragraph is the impression I'm getting from this thread so please take it as a little
:p).
Ah, people in the east trying to justify why the west is warmer than the east. It can't be that the weather is better during the warm spell - nope - it has to be that there's something wrong with the weather station.
Anyhow, despite that fact that a number of people told ye that other nearby locations were showing similar temperatures to Shannon airport ye plowed on until you made the theory fit the narrative.
I've checked my car sensor against a temperature sensor that's accurate to +/-0.02C and I know it read's ~+1C over actual air temperature. Take it that a car sensor is not a great solution and give it another +/-1C.
Last Tuesday evening, I arrived into Shannon and left the building at 9:00PM. Was reporting 25C at Shannon - car was reporting 26C fairly consistently most of the drive home once the sensor temperature had stabilised. Far from scientific but would lead me to believe strongly that if the Shannon station is overreading it's not doing it by much. Certainly not to the degree (pun intended) that at least some people here are trying to intimate.
If you doubt the temperature - maybe look at the Tii road stations nearby? From my memory of occasionally comparing, they usually broadly agree with Shannon sensor.
Maybe look up Observational Bias
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Wouldn't normally post in this forum but this thread has irritated me a little
(Next paragraph is the impression I'm getting from this thread so please take it as a little:p).
Ah, people in the east trying to justify why the west is warmer than the east. It can't be that the weather is better during the warm spell - nope - it has to be that there's something wrong with the weather station.
Anyhow, despite that fact that a number of people told ye that other nearby locations were showing similar temperatures to Shannon airport ye plowed on until you made the theory fit the narrative.
I've checked my car sensor against a temperature sensor that's accurate to +/-0.02C and I know it read's ~+1C over actual air temperature. Take it that a car sensor is not a great solution and give it another +/-1C.
Last Tuesday evening, I arrived into Shannon and left the building at 9:00PM. Was reporting 25C at Shannon - car was reporting 26C fairly consistently most of the drive home once the sensor temperature had stabilised. Far from scientific but would lead me to believe strongly that if the Shannon station is overreading it's not doing it by much. Certainly not to the degree (pun intended) that at least some people here are trying to intimate.
If you doubt the temperature - maybe look at the Tii road stations nearby? From my memory of occasionally comparing, they usually broadly agree with Shannon sensor.
Maybe look up Observational Bias
Roads give off heat, that is why roads melt, they build up heat and they heat up the environment around them, that is what your car would have been reading, you were not driving home across grassy fields.
The Shannon airport site is not a good site given there is a large car park close to it and the winds on the hottest days suited the weather station to draw heat from the car park.0 -
Wouldn't normally post in this forum but this thread has irritated me a little
(Next paragraph is the impression I'm getting from this thread so please take it as a little:p).
Ah, people in the east trying to justify why the west is warmer than the east. It can't be that the weather is better during the warm spell - nope - it has to be that there's something wrong with the weather station.
Anyhow, despite that fact that a number of people told ye that other nearby locations were showing similar temperatures to Shannon airport ye plowed on until you made the theory fit the narrative.
I've checked my car sensor against a temperature sensor that's accurate to +/-0.02C and I know it read's ~+1C over actual air temperature. Take it that a car sensor is not a great solution and give it another +/-1C.
Last Tuesday evening, I arrived into Shannon and left the building at 9:00PM. Was reporting 25C at Shannon - car was reporting 26C fairly consistently most of the drive home once the sensor temperature had stabilised. Far from scientific but would lead me to believe strongly that if the Shannon station is overreading it's not doing it by much. Certainly not to the degree (pun intended) that at least some people here are trying to intimate.
If you doubt the temperature - maybe look at the Tii road stations nearby? From my memory of occasionally comparing, they usually broadly agree with Shannon sensor.
Maybe look up Observational Bias
I think you'll find it's more the case that the people on this forum are both weather experts and enthusiasts who regard the quality and accuracy of weather data as important.
We almost broke the record for the warmest day ever in Ireland last year. It's important that the temps are therefore accurate!
Also, no one is complaining about or querying the data from Oak Park, Newport or any other place in the West. We're complaining about Shannon for a very valid reason.
And you're incorrect to say Shannon was reporting similar conditions to everywhere else in the West. It was consistently reporting higher conditions, especially at night, where the temp often bizarrely increases between 7pm and 10pm.
Personally I'm delighted the West is getting good weather for once as it's usually dire over there!0 -
spookwoman wrote: »Its on the grounds of the OSI. Think this is it.
from met.ie https://www.met.ie/climate/weather-observing-stations
The Phoenix Park AWS is situated within the grounds of the Ordnance Survey of Ireland in the Phoenix Park, Dublin. The current station was installed in 2003 and replaced a manual climate which was established in 1829.
The following parameters are recorded at the station:
Air Temperature
Soil Temperatures
Earth Temperatures
Grass Temperature
Rainfall
Atmospheric Pressure
Relative Humidity
Global Radiation
Location
53°21‘50” N
06°20’00’’ W
48 m above mean sea level
Thanks.
Was the location kept the exact same though?
I mean is it possible to compare recent data back to 1829 with confidence?0 -
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Wouldn't normally post in this forum but this thread has irritated me a little
(Next paragraph is the impression I'm getting from this thread so please take it as a little:p).
Ah, people in the east trying to justify why the west is warmer than the east. It can't be that the weather is better during the warm spell - nope - it has to be that there's something wrong with the weather station.
Anyhow, despite that fact that a number of people told ye that other nearby locations were showing similar temperatures to Shannon airport ye plowed on until you made the theory fit the narrative.
I've checked my car sensor against a temperature sensor that's accurate to +/-0.02C and I know it read's ~+1C over actual air temperature. Take it that a car sensor is not a great solution and give it another +/-1C.
Last Tuesday evening, I arrived into Shannon and left the building at 9:00PM. Was reporting 25C at Shannon - car was reporting 26C fairly consistently most of the drive home once the sensor temperature had stabilised. Far from scientific but would lead me to believe strongly that if the Shannon station is overreading it's not doing it by much. Certainly not to the degree (pun intended) that at least some people here are trying to intimate.
If you doubt the temperature - maybe look at the Tii road stations nearby? From my memory of occasionally comparing, they usually broadly agree with Shannon sensor.
Maybe look up Observational Bias
Your paragraph that you referred to is completely wrong. Nothing at all to do with East v West. That's a very narrow-minded and ill-informed opinion.
Your following paragraphs are also nonsensical. You cannot claim that a car thermometer - with has a resolution of at best 0.5 degrees, located just in front of a radiator, a lot lower than the standard 1.25 m, over a hot road - can be used as a calibration tool for an actual weather station located kms away. At 9 pm on Tuesday it was 25.6 at Shannon, as the wind was east southeasterly (from off the carpark). By 10 pm it had fallen 4 degrees to 21.6 as the wind swung around to almost southerly (i.e. more in off the estuary). That's a 4-degree change in just 1 hour at the same location. You're saying that your moving car several kms away can be used as a comparison?0 -
Just took a snapshot of the current road weather data around the country. Look at the difference between the road surface and air temperatures. Up to >20-degree differences in some parts. The air temperature sensors on these stations are generally around 2 metres above road level, so for the 1.25-metre height of Shannon's Stevenson screen you can imagine the effect of a nearby hot surface would be greater, depending on windspeed. This is why you don't trust car sensors...or weather stations just 12 metres from large carparks.
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This is Met Éireann's temperature graph for Shannon on the 28th, the day it hit 32.0 °C. We can see a short sudden spike of around half of a degree to exactly 32.0 at around 16:15Z (17:15 local time), just around the time the wind direction veered subtly by 30 degrees, bringing it over more of the carpark. Before that it was around 31.5 (32 rounded).
METAR EINN 281700Z 04010KT 010V080 CAVOK 31/10 Q1024 NOSIG=
METAR EINN 281630Z 06010KT 030V100 CAVOK 31/10 Q1024 NOSIG=
METAR EINN 281600Z 08010KT 030V120 CAVOK 32/09 Q1024 NOSIG=
METAR EINN 281530Z 07007KT 020V120 CAVOK 32/09 Q1024 NOSIG=
METAR EINN 281500Z 05006KT 010V110 CAVOK 32/09 Q1024 NOSIG=0 -
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Some temp data from the Met Eireann archive for Adare Manor, the nearest climatological station to Shannon that I can find (N. Limerick) for a couple of the warmer days in the last decade.
Max at Shannon/Adare Manor
2009
June 1: 25.6 / 26.1
June 2: 26.9 / 27.1
June 3: 24.9 / 26.9
2013
July 18: 26.9 / 27.2
July 19: 29.5 / 29.9
July 20: 29.3 / 28.0
Surprisingly, Adare Manor, by and large, tended to record higher maxes overall during these peak hot days.
New Moon
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Nope, that's a very strange thing to say. The shift of 30° occured over an hour, from 1500Z to 1600Z, the shift was only of 10° between 1530Z to 1600Z, and a shift of 10° as reported on metars could Infact only be a shift of 2/3°.
The anemometer is around 1 mile away from the screen, so it may not accurately reflect the exact wind at the screen area. What's fairly obvious is marked spikes and dips in temperature throughout the day, despite the fact that skies were clear throughout. This doesn't happen without some cause, such as subtle windshifts on and off the carpark. 0 -
Gaoth Laidir wrote: »The anemometer is around 1 mile away from the screen, so it may not accurately reflect the exact wind at the screen area. What's fairly obvious is marked spikes and dips in temperature throughout the day, despite the fact that skies were clear throughout. This doesn't happen without some cause, such as subtle windshifts on and off the carpark.
Can you show me a graph from a better sited Irish weather station without those spikes in them?0 -
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So, I was in Eason in Liffey Valley today, flicking through a book of old aerial images of Ireland, when I opened the page below. Shannon Airport in 1951, showing the weather station in its original location, to the west of the airport. That area is fully built up and concreted by now, and the current station is probably off the right edge of the photo.
Here's the station outlined in a photo that was posted earlier in this thread.
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