Do you believe in God?

Hannibal_Smith · 28-09-2019 8:53am

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Question what? Why not just respect someone’s right to believe in something that makes them happy?

I don't get this. Why can you not have a discussion about a belief in God, without this card being pulled out? Why is questioning whether God exists an automatic mark of disrespect to someone?

Mad_maxx · 28-09-2019 8:53am

kildare lad wrote: »

James Bond Junior wrote: »

I believe in God. I also believe the fundamentals of all organised religions is to treat others with kindness, empathy and respect including yourself. Many people don't have God or any God in their lives in these times and society isn't better for it.

But do you need to believe in God to show kindness and respect people . I don't believe in God and yet I treat people fine. You get your values from your parents . Look at American society the most religious one in the western world . And yet, they are as far away from Christian teaching as you can go . Love thy neighbour , no let's build a big wall . Thou shall not kill , they've been constantly at war killing people since the countries been created . Do not steal , tell that to the Indians. A camel has more chance of going through an eye of a needle than a rich man has of going to heaven. And yet Americans love money , it's the most capitalist society in the world. I'm just making an example that a lot of religious people are some of the biggest hypocrites in the world .

The USA was founded on a Protestant ethos, viewing poverty as more virtuous is a Catholic thing

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 8:53am

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Question what? Why not just respect someone’s right to believe in something that makes them happy?

It's a discussion forum.

The White Wolf · 28-09-2019 8:53am

Sebastian Blue Strength wrote: »

LOL, no.

No more than I believe Spiderman exists based on a fictional comic book guy.

But if it makes someone feel better to believe in a god (isn't there something like 3000 of them?) and it gives some kind of comfort to them well who am I to tell them otherwise.

Now that's more like Dawkins.

nthclare · 28-09-2019 8:55am

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Question what? Why not just respect someone’s right to believe in something that makes them happy?

That's a valid point, but there's where the total contradiction comes from the atheists, they'll debate about something which doesn't exist.

Go into their forum in A+A you'll find them all thanking each other and ganging up rather than being civil, they're like a bunch of angry wasps swarming around ready to sting....

Look I've no problems with people slagging off versions of God and woo

But telling people they're delusional and blaming the lay members of the church on all the scandal etc

It all goes back to different times, no fckin way would the hierarchy in the church get away with their lust for power sex and greed nowadays...

It's all about timing and the fear factor...

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 8:55am

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Poster is just giving her answer, doesn’t need to get into a debate.

Because if you actually look at god properly, the whole thing falls apart?

It relies on blind faith.

JohnnyFlash · 28-09-2019 8:59am

Sebastian Blue Strength wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo

Fry is a stupid person’s idea of a clever person.

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 9:01am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Fry is a stupid person’s idea of a clever person.

Should be easy to answer the questions so......

Dravokivich · 28-09-2019 9:03am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Do someone else's motives and actions have no bearing on what you think of them or whether you believe they are good (or exist at all)?

The bible definition of god and the world around us ( going right back in time so not just a
"Modern godless times" ) would leave anyone that isn't a blind fanatic with the opinion that god is some sort of cruel, evil syco. All the power to to have a glorious earth for people to exist in happiness but instead goes the Evil zoo owner route that allows the animals to starve , kill each other and suffer for their lives.

The whole thing about the Christian God is that you're not meant to know what hes up to or why.

donkeykong5 · 28-09-2019 9:03am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Sebastian Blue Strength wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo

Fry is a stupid person’s idea of a clever person.

One of the biggest saps going.

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 9:05am

Dravokivich wrote: »

The whole thing about the Christian God is that you're not meant to know what hes up to or why.

That's convenient....

Canis Lupus · 28-09-2019 9:08am

Dravokivich wrote: »

The whole thing about the Christian God is that you're not meant to know what hes up to or why.

Only when something bad happens because no one can explain why a loving god gives a child bone cancer.

chooey · 28-09-2019 9:09am

I really hope there is. I would love to think I’d meet my mam again. Still not sure though.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-09-2019 9:11am

Woke Hogan wrote: »

I do respect that many people are desperate for comfort as they come close to death but ultimately there's no reason in my view to believe in god.

He said, eating children’s cereal out of his neck beard and drinking an energy drink and sofa masturbating himself into unconsciousness.

How do you know that atheists are as you describe above. If you don’t believe in the gods, you’re an atheist. Just by definition, whether you identify as atheist or not. No need for all the imaginary derogatory stuff.

Montage of Feck · 28-09-2019 9:17am

eviltwin wrote: »

No. Its illogical that a god could exist when terrible things happen to innocent people. If that's what God is I want no part of it.

Maybe God just doesn't give a **** or follows a non interventionist policy.

JohnnyFlash · 28-09-2019 9:18am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He said, eating children’s cereal out of his neck beard and drinking an energy drink and soda masturbating himself into unconsciousness.

How do you know that atheists are as you describe above. If you don’t believe in the gods, you’re an atheist. Just by definition, whether you identify as atheist or not. No need for all the imaginary derogatory stuff.

There’s an impression that a lot of online atheist sorts probably look a bit like this:

2013 wrx 0 60

Mad_maxx · 28-09-2019 9:20am

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Dravokivich wrote: »

The whole thing about the Christian God is that you're not meant to know what hes up to or why.

Only when something bad happens because no one can explain why a loving god gives a child bone cancer.

Something about free will, the kid obviously chose to contact the disease

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 9:20am

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Maybe God just doesn't give a **** or follows a non interventionist policy.

What's so great about such a **** and why should people spend their lives following them?

Also, why is such a non interventionist policy seen as evil when its rich people not using their money to improve the lives of the poor?

Mad_maxx · 28-09-2019 9:21am

Montage of Feck wrote: »

eviltwin wrote: »

No. Its illogical that a god could exist when terrible things happen to innocent people. If that's what God is I want no part of it.

Maybe God just doesn't give a **** or follows a non interventionist policy.

Then stop expecting credit if Ireland win the world Cup or I pass my driving test

Lewis_Benson · 28-09-2019 9:24am

No.

Dampsquid · 28-09-2019 9:28am

I don't believe in God, not since i was 15/16 i'd say - a little bit like santa, even when i knew he wasn't real, i still wanted to believe for a while.

I don't have much respect for intelligent people who still believe, it amazes me that some top scientists, especially America's would still have a strong faith. We have a strong theory for how life started on the earth.

Adults spending 1 hour a week in a church worshiping a God, unbelievable - for all the crap in the world and they still think someone who has created this should be worshiped? I know people who bless themselves as they drive past a church, taking hands of wheel and risking themselves or someone else if something unexpected happened - crazy.

If you respect people who are religious, would you still respect someone who worships the sun or the moon?

suicide_circus · 28-09-2019 9:28am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Fry is a stupid person’s idea of a clever person.

having listened to his autobiographies (plural) on audiobook, he'd be the first to agree with you.

Squall Leonhart · 28-09-2019 9:29am

Up until my late teens I had a stronger belief in God than most of my peers.

Then somehow somewhere by 20 it had totally fallen apart and flipped on its head. I was a vehement denier of the possibility. My attitude became arrogant and disrespectful, I couldn't understand how intelligent people believed in the bullsh<i>i</i>t. I scoffed at devout people smug in my new found knowledge that God was for fools.

Nothing in particular happened to lead me to that switch in belief.

Now in my 30s that view has softened and I'm a little embarrassed about the militant views I had as a new atheist in my early 20s. I still do not believe in God, but more open to the possibility of something, yet totally unconvinced.

I still absolutely disagree with organised religion, and religion in general. For me the fact that the geography of your birth largely dictates your religion renders it moot. Born in Saudi Arabia? 99% chance you're Muslim. Born in China? 75% chance you're non religious. Born in Phoenician times? You probably worship Baal. It's too arbitrary.

However, I respect the beliefs of many and have adopted a live and let live view.

Most Irish who identify as Catholic are "cultural Catholics" rather than practicing. I do take issue with this. If you do not believe in any of the philosophies or ethos of your club, how can you still claim membership?

This business of "I don't believe in God, but got married in a church and baptised my children" bothers me. If we all keep doing these things, secular options for those who want them will not be available, because of a false positive high number of catholics in the country. To those who believe in it, more power to them, and why wouldn't they partake in all rituals and ceremonies and involve their families in same?

I do not like the arguments trotted out about paedophiles and genocides and atrocities as a "if there is a god, then why...", because its a bit of a nonsense. There could conceivably be a creator without there being a "manager". Many men bring a child into the world and have no involvement in the child's life. People in an organisation can do terrible things but it's not really in my opinion a valid reason to dismiss the whole organisation. I know many good priests, honest good men who don't deserve to wear the wrongs of others as their own, yet they do because of some ignorant people's approach.

It's a complicated business! I don't believe in God, but part of me wishes I still did, that I never lost faith.

28-09-2019 9:31am

wrote:

Pot, kettle?

I don't personally believe in god, take no issue with those that do believe in god and do believe that religion enriches the lives of many people. I do take issue with those that those that try to impose their religious beliefs on me or my family and will kick back when this happens.

I wish we could have a ban on everybody who tries to impose their commercial and political interests/the now all-pervasive god of incessant consumerism on us - an imposition which is infinitely more prevalent in 2019 than anything a religious institution is imposing upon us.

Bar a few genuine radicals of the Jimmy Gralton variety, Irish people don't have a good record for speaking up against wrongdoing in their day; they're fine with focusing on wrongdoing once it's in the past, though. Will it take 50 or so years for people to realise the wide range of environmental destruction which consumerism and its incessant invention of all sorts of "needs" is creating?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 28-09-2019 9:33am

Dunno how you can believe in God, but not an afterlife? What does He do with all the dead souls (if souls even exist, but if not; then the question is: what is the relationship between God and the soul? After dead?)

I believe in a higher form of consciousness, but in the idea that it's more energy and pure emotion without physical form and certainly not in the "God" that is depicted in the Bible (or probably Koran)

One eyed Jack · 28-09-2019 9:42am

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

I think I believe in God, but not in religion, while also thinking an afterlife doesn't exist.

Gonna switch your post round a bit TC to address this point first, and then the second. Religion isn’t something one does or doesn’t believe in. It’s a shared ideology like any other shared ideology you can think of among people. I believe in God, but that doesn’t mean I blindly support a lot of the shìte that some people think also goes along with that belief. I don’t share their ideas any more than the idea that some people point fingers and say if you’re truly Catholic you’re supposed to do this, this and this, and you’re supposed to believe this, this and this.

They’re drawing correlations between their beliefs and a belief in God, and using that as the basis to attempt to condemn others who don’t share their perspective. That’s why you observe that there are some people who say terrible things and commit terrible acts in furtherance of what they believe. Some people use an ideology to portray themselves as morally superior to everyone else, while condemning others and committing heinous actions against other people. It doesn’t mean the ideology itself is either good or bad, it simply means it can go either way, and it’s people who decide to use an ideology to further their own aims within that shared ideology.

It’s the fundamental basis of identity politics, be it feminism, transgenderism, etc. The idea that every feminist or every person who is transgender should behave a certain way or share all of the beliefs of a particular ideology is just as silly as expecting that all people who are religious should behave a certain way or share all the beliefs of a particular ideology. It’s as fundamentally flawed as ideas about patriarchy or bogeymen like the white Christian male, Islamic fundamentalist suicide bombers, environmentalists, traps and purple haired loons. Such correlations are generally referred to as guilt by association, and very often the same people who are quick to point out that correlation is not causation, are often the same type of person who uses the guilt by association fallacy in making their argument against an ideology, which leads me on to the next point -

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

The church have been responsible for the most heinous crimes against individuals since the state got independence. And suicide bombers are mostly influenced by religion to carry out what they do.

This is bollocks, frankly. Individuals are responsible for their own attitudes and behaviours towards other people. The Church isn’t responsible for any crimes, it’s the small number of individuals within the Church who are responsible for committing the most heinous crimes against individuals since the State got independence. Suicide bombers too are a minority within their religion (you’re using the guilt by association fallacy I mentioned earlier), and I could just as easily use the same argument to pose the question - how many people’s lives are destroyed when someone chooses to take their own life? How much suffering is caused? You’ll find that there is a strong correlation between people who are of the belief that there should be no stigma attached to the idea of a person choosing to take their own life, and the people who attempt to condemn other people who they see as wanting to make people suffer.

28-09-2019 9:43am

Is there such a thing as an atheist who gambles on ("plays") the lottery? Given that the odds of winning Euromillions, for instance, are 1 in 140 million, how would an atheist rationalise buying Euromillions tickets?

Is there some irrational hope in some extremely unlikely happy ending there?

Dampsquid · 28-09-2019 9:45am

Deleted User wrote: »

Is there such a thing as an atheist who gambles on ("plays") the lottery? Given that the odds of winning Euromillions, for instance, are 1 in 140 million, how would an atheist rationalise buying Euromillions tickets?

Is there some irrational hope in some extremely unlikely happy ending there?

Do you pray to god to let you win?

Squall Leonhart · 28-09-2019 9:48am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is there such a thing as an atheist who gambles on ("plays") the lottery? Given that the odds of winning Euromillions, for instance, are 1 in 140 million, how would an atheist rationalise buying Euromillions tickets?

Is there some irrational hope in some extremely unlikely happy ending there?

Not a valid comparison. Nobody has ever proven there to be a god, or afterlife etc.

People routinely win the lotto, its demonstrably possible.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 28-09-2019 9:48am

Dampsquid wrote: »

Do you pray to god to let you win?

"Yes, Mrs. Rosenstien, but I can't give you the win unless you buy a ticket!"

28-09-2019 9:49am

Dampsquid wrote: »

Do you pray to god to let you win?

Not a very rational response there, ironically.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-09-2019 9:55am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

There’s an impression that a lot of online atheist sorts probably look a bit like this:

I get the stereotype. It’s just funny that the poster took the p1ss out of other atheists, and then said they don’t actually believe in the gods (atheist).

Same picture could be used for the anti feminist, INCEL types on boards.ie. Switch the poster for Jordan Peterson and put a PUA book on the shelf. But that would also be an unfair stereotype.

28-09-2019 10:02am

Squall Leonhart wrote: »

Not a valid comparison. Nobody has ever proven there to be a god, or afterlife etc.

People routinely win the lotto, its demonstrably possible.

Yes, 1 in 140,000,000 (that's million) are the odds. Just try and envisage that. There's a 1 in 10 million chance of an airplane part falling from the sky and hitting you or of your being struck by lightning, yet most people wouldn't expect it to happen to them.

Buying a ticket for something you have a 1 in 140 million chance of winning is on the same level of irrationality as is believing in a higher power. The same need for hope in some idealistic better future is present in both processes.

fisgon · 28-09-2019 10:03am

nthclare wrote: »

But telling people they're delusional and blaming the lay members of the church on all the scandal etc

It all goes back to different times, no fckin way would the hierarchy in the church get away with their lust for power sex and greed nowadays...

It's all about timing and the fear factor...

Of course the lay members of the church are partly responsible for the crimes of the church - they not only let them happen, they actively took part in a lot of the nightmare. This simply blaming the big bad "hierarchy" is an abdication of responsibility.

If you sit in a Catholic church for mass, you are giving support to an institution that has done unforgiveable things.

dark crystal · 28-09-2019 10:04am

James Bond Junior wrote: »

I believe in God. I also believe the fundamentals of all organised religions is to treat others with kindness, empathy and respect including yourself. Many people don't have God or any God in their lives in these times and society isn't better for it.

Which religion practices this?

Certainly not Catholicism! Babies born into the world are automatically stained with original sin. Sex is seen as dirty. Children were seen as sexual playthings for many of those chosen to preach the word of the Catholic God. Many of the Brides of Christ enslaved them, sold them or murdered them. Homosexuality is viewed as a sin (then you must ask why God created them 'that way' in his infinite wisdom?).

How about Islam? Men and women, although supposedly created equal are most certainly not treated equally. Women are forbidden from revealing the face given to them by their God lest she tempt a man into raping her. Under Sharia Law, punishments include whipping, amputations and stoning to death. 'Fatwa's', in essence death sentences, are handed down to those who dare to question or defame Allah. We won't even get into those who bomb, hijack airplanes etc. in his name.

Ok, Judaism is pretty tame though, right? Like, besides the whole cutting of the male genitalia thing. Thought sex abuse was confined to those practicing Catholicism? Think again: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/bjwd8w/the-ultra-orthodox-jewish-communitys-sex-abuse-crisis-has-finally-reached-a-tipping-point. Where was their God when the Nazi's slaughtered 6 million of them? Why wasn't their saviour there to help them?

They're just the main ones...I won't even get into the eastern religions, but if you wish to delve into the problems of child and female rape in India, there's a plethora cases to choose from. Here's one such story about a Hindu gang: https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/people/article/3010554/gujarat-riots-they-raped-me-butchered-my-child-because-we-were

These people had God in their lives and you still think society was better for them? I'd actually argue less believers in organised religion would benefit the world enormously.

If your moral compass is directed solely by the belief in whatever God you subscribe to, you are on the road to living a life of dogmatic belief and devoid of free thinking, how is this beneficial to society in any way?

*Non obese, clean shaven woman speaking btw...*

fisgon · 28-09-2019 10:05am

I haven't believed in a god for 20 years. My life is much better for having let go of the superstition, delusion, ignorance and pointless guilt.

Squall Leonhart · 28-09-2019 10:06am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes, 1 in 140,000,000 (that's million) are the odds. Just try and envisage that. There's a 1 in 10 million chance of an airplane part falling from the sky and hitting you or of your being struck by lightning, yet most people wouldn't expect it to happen to them.

Buying a ticket for something you have a 1 in 140 million chance of winning is on the same level of irrationality as is believing in a higher power. The same need for hope in a better future is present in both processes.

Look, I'm not disagreeing with you that the odds are astronomical. Most people who do the lotto don't expect to win either.

But, winning the lottery, however unlikely, is factually possible, happens most weeks for someone. The same certainty cannot be applied to the existence of an afterlife or God.

moonage · 28-09-2019 10:12am

Are living things the result of blind, dumb forces or of an intelligent universe?

Obviously, the latter.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-09-2019 10:14am

moonage wrote: »

Are living things the result of blind, dumb forces or of an intelligent universe?

Obviously, the latter.

It’s not obviously he latter.

But if it was the latter, and life needs an intelligent universe to create it, doesn’t the intelligent universe “obviously” need an intelligent creator and doesn’t that creator obviously need a creator? And so on and so on?

What does an “intelligent universe” even mean anyway?

jobeenfitz · 28-09-2019 10:17am

I'm going to check Paddy Power. Com. That'll give me a good indication.

Wibbs · 28-09-2019 10:24am

Squall Leonhart wrote: »

Look, I'm not disagreeing with you that the odds are astronomical. Most people who do the lotto don't expect to win either.

But, winning the lottery, however unlikely, is factually possible, happens most weeks for someone.

+1. I never got this "winning the lotto is less likely than a plane falling on you etc". I give two fecks about the maths(which I suspect are highly dubious), because as you point out on a near weekly basis someone goes and wins on it, yet there isn't a weekly occurrence of people picking bits of airbus, or meteorite outa their lightning frazzled hair.

fisgon · 28-09-2019 10:27am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

.

This is bollocks, frankly. Individuals are responsible for their own attitudes and behaviours towards other people. The Church isn’t responsible for any crimes, it’s the small number of individuals within the Church who are responsible for committing the most heinous crimes against individuals since the State got independence. .

No, this is bollocks. The idea that the church, and the ideology that it represents, is not responsible for the crimes committed is frankly delusional.

It is not just down to individuals - this is the "few bad apples" argument that the church itself uses to wash its hands of the awful things it was responsible for. It's like saying that the purges in the old USSR, the political prisoners, the gulags and the oppression of citizens had nothing to do with communism - it was just a few individuals who ruined it for everyone.

Wibbs · 28-09-2019 10:36am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It’s not obviously he latter.

But if it was the latter, and life needs an intelligent universe to create it, doesn’t the intelligent universe “obviously” need an intelligent creator and doesn’t that creator obviously need a creator? And so on and so on?

One could take another angle and consider the Gaia principle and extend it universe wide. That reality itself is kinda analogous to a "living" system, that is born from a "previous" universe, grows, matures and dies and in that lifecycle sets up the conditions for intelligent life that springs up rarely but enough times that at least one such lifeform will be intelligent enough to build other universes in a lab and reproduce itself and off it goes again. Universes that don't have those conditions never reproduce.

The big problem with creation and before and after is that those concepts themselves only came into being at least for those observing from within the fishbowl that is our reality when the universe came into being in the big bang. There is no "before", no "outside" from our point of view. That doesn't mean there isn't a before from another point of view, but I can't see how that will ever be knowable.

uck51js9zml2yt · 28-09-2019 10:42am

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

Nobody believes in God. If they did believe there was a all knowing being that would judge us at the end for our sins then they would be much better people.

I know God doesn’t exist, but I try to live like he does.

Are you inaccurate much or do you just pretend to be?

I believe in God.

He won't judge us for our sins, He'll judge us for not believing in His Son.
When we do that, He starts a process that transforms us and gives us hope in this life and the next.

Montage of Feck · 28-09-2019 10:45am

God is a personification of the unknownable mysteries of the universe.

Canis Lupus · 28-09-2019 10:46am

Taliyah Vast Gofer wrote: »

Are you inaccurate much or do you just pretend to be?

I believe in God.

He won't judge us for our sins, He'll judge us for not believing in His Son.
When we do that, He starts a process that transforms us and gives us hope in this life and the next.

Quite a random thing to judge us by and it's going to be awkward for all those souls who through the lottery of birth were raised in a non abrahamic religions.

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 10:54am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It’s not obviously he latter.

But if it was the latter, and life needs an intelligent universe to create it, doesn’t the intelligent universe “obviously” need an intelligent creator and doesn’t that creator obviously need a creator? And so on and so on?

What does an “intelligent universe” even mean anyway?

God is put forward as infallible and omnipotent.

If such a being was the creator, we should be at our peak since the beginning . How are humans still having new ideas?

Ultrflat · 28-09-2019 10:55am

Taliyah Vast Gofer wrote: »

Are you inaccurate much or do you just pretend to be?

I believe in God.

He won't judge us for our sins, He'll judge us for not believing in His Son.
When we do that, He starts a process that transforms us and gives us hope in this life and the next.

Surely if he created human beings, he would know were inquisitive creatures who do not all think a like. If that's the case why would he judge his own creation? To do that would be to judge himself, there for it would be very hypocritical to throw his creation in hell. Given the fact he made us.

Upforthematch · 28-09-2019 10:57am

Do I believe in God? Yes I do.

Prayer is important to me. I like reading history and prayer has been important to most cultures I've read about.

When I pray I feel like I am participating in one of the most fundamental human impulses there is. It's up there with the urge to eat, procreate, kill, love and so on!

Which God do I pray to? I pray to the God who listens to me! And I believe that God is Jesus.

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2019 10:57am

Ultrflat wrote: »

there for it would be very hypocritical to throw his creation in hell. Given the fact he made us.

To be fair, he does seem to love a bit of torturing. its one of the things that make him so good apparently.

Also, a great number of the people he personally created seem to be evil and worthy of condemnation (gay people, other religions etc) . He doesn't seem to be very good at the old creating.

Do you believe in God?

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