Woman Loses Job for Holding Gender Critical Opinions.

ceadaoin. · 14-05-2019 6:49pm

violent crime committed by "women" must be rising drastically in the UK. We even have some being charged with rape when in the UK a penis is required to commit that crime. So there's one stat that has risen by at least 100%. That definitely won't be skewing the figures at all and painting a completely inaccurate picture. Nope

Btw I think talking about inaccurate recording of crime statistics is another thing that lost Maya Forstater her job.

recedite · 14-05-2019 6:54pm

Here's the vid...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNp2-VhrT1o

Obviously the testosterone is flowing liberally and the red mist has descended on this transwoman, who in the heat of the moment, has temporarily forgotten that he is supposed to be a she.

Then along comes the security man, who turns out to be a real woman, and is far too effeminate to be able to break up the scuffle.

Its a funny old world

ceadaoin. · 14-05-2019 7:06pm

recedite wrote: »

Here's the vid...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNp2-VhrT1o

Obviously the testosterone is flowing liberally and the red mist has descended on this transwoman, who in the heat of the moment, has temporarily forgotten that he is supposed to be a she.

Then along comes the security man, who turns out to be a real woman, and is far too effeminate to be able to break up the scuffle.

Its a funny old world

I hope she didn't misgender her attacker during that. She might find herself being charged with a crime.

But I mean why the **** are people standing around filming and making comments. Just help the girl ffs.

Zorya · 14-05-2019 7:11pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I hope she didn't misgender her attacker during that. She might find herself being charged with a crime.

But I mean why the **** are people standing around filming and making comments. Just help the girl ffs.

Yeah it's the second video I saw today where people filmed horrible stuff and didn't intervene. Some days you'd wonder if cameras do steal our souls like tribal people used to claim,

recedite · 14-05-2019 7:14pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Just help the girl ffs.

Which girl?

In fairness it is kinda funny. You'd be torn between filming it and intervening.

Zorya · 14-05-2019 7:18pm

recedite wrote: »

Which girl?

In fairness it is kinda funny. You'd be torn between filming it and intervening.

Must admit I would never film something like that, I'd be torn between intervening or lying down on the ground in despair at the surreal madness of things!

recedite · 14-05-2019 7:47pm

Zorya wrote: »

Must admit I would never film something like that..

Neither would I, but if I was the filming type I might. If that makes sense...

Patty Hearst · 14-05-2019 7:57pm

Zorya wrote: »

I was going to post that earlier, Patty, but felt it might solidify my reputation as a crank
It is infuriating. This crime is being reported and recorded as a female crime - when it is nothing of the sort. I thought it could not possibly be that Carol Lea was a gender advisor for the police but I tracked it down earlier - they did so between 2002 and 2007, and also assisted at University as a freelance trainer discussing Gender with students at Liverpool Hope University and Wirral Hospital Trust over a number of years.

The absolute state of that picture with the hammer. The odd thing is, if one watches the video of the attack, that Carol Lea went and got the hammer really calmly from the boot. They later punched the girl so hard in the head that she had to be hospitalised. Over a fricking car parking space!!! The girl is 19, Carol is 55, this is male on female violence. Oh anyways I am truly fcuked off with this kind of sh!t.

I didn't believe it either until I checked it out.

There seems to be a propensity for violence and aggression in some Male to Female Trans..Gee I wonder why that is??

Absolutely sickening nonsense going on.

TuringBot47 · 14-05-2019 9:43pm

That's absolutely repulsive behaviour.
Hopefully they're charged with assault with a deadly weapon and thrown in any jail.

Probably won't see any apologists here until after the Eurovision.

eagle eye · 14-05-2019 9:57pm

An ordinary person might be afraid to interfere in case they'd be labeled homophobic or transphobic and lose their job.

BattleCorp · 14-05-2019 11:14pm

eagle eye wrote: »

An ordinary person might be afraid to interfere in case they'd be labeled homophobic or transphobic and lose their job.

Or get a belt of a hammer.

LLMMLL · 15-05-2019 12:36am

Zorya wrote: »

Patty Hearst wrote: »

This 'Woman' attacked a young girl with a hammer but luckily the cops had their priorities straight and recorded the crime as having being committed by a woman.

The 'Woman' also happened to be an advisor to the local police on Gender, Equality and Diversity issues.

I wonder will she lose her job now?

I was going to post that earlier, Patty, but felt it might solidify my reputation as a crank
It is infuriating. This crime is being reported and recorded as a female crime - when it is nothing of the sort. I thought it could not possibly be that Carol Lea was a gender advisor for the police but I tracked it down earlier - they did so between 2002 and 2007, and also assisted at University as a freelance trainer discussing Gender with students at Liverpool Hope University and Wirral Hospital Trust over a number of years.

The absolute state of that picture with the hammer. The odd thing is, if one watches the video of the attack, that Carol Lea went and got the hammer really calmly from the boot. They later punched the girl so hard in the head that she had to be hospitalised. Over a fricking car parking space!!! The girl is 19, Carol is 55, this is male on female violence. Oh anyways I am truly fcuked off with this kind of sh!t.

So you pick one member of a minority that behaves in a reprehensible manner and try to paint it as an issue inherent to that minority?

Candamir · 15-05-2019 7:13am

LLMMLL wrote: »

So you pick one member of a minority that behaves in a reprehensible manner and try to paint it as an issue inherent to that minority?

The main complaint here is the classification of crimes by transgender women as ‘female’ crimes, and the poor judgment in choosing this person as an advisor and trainer on gender issues.

Have you any thoughts on that? Do you think it’s a fair concern? If she is convicted and gets a custodial sentence, do you think it’s safe for other women to be housed with her?

Might it be more useful to categorise the crime as transgender MtF? At least then it would give a good indication if violence was in fact an issue in that cohort and would arm us with the information to deal with that.

Zorya · 15-05-2019 7:56am

Candamir wrote: »

The main complaint here is the classification of crimes by transgender women as ‘female’ crimes, and the poor judgment in choosing this person as an advisor and trainer on gender issues.

Have you any thoughts on that? Do you think it’s a fair concern? If she is convicted and gets a custodial sentence, do you think it’s safe for other women to be housed with her?

Might it be more useful to categorise the crime as transgender MtF? At least then it would give a good indication if violence was in fact an issue in that cohort and would arm us with the information to deal with that.

Ray Blanchard, early expert in the area, physician who way ahead of the game championed the right for adult trans people to access medical affirmation and gender reassignment, recently made the suggestion that transgender people could obtain a type of legal fiction recognition for their gender, which would mean that they could be recognised as their chosen sex for certain cases, but not for others.
Therefore driving license as chosen sex is fine but sports participation as chosen sex is not fine, This same legal fiction could be used to make sure that crime statistics and incarceration practices do not create distortions for the biological realities.

For this suggestion he was temporarily banned from Twitter.
This is the thread that got him banned.

My beliefs include the following 6 elements: (1) Transsexualism and milder forms of gender dysphoria are types of mental disorder, which may leave the individual with average or even above-average functioning in unrelated areas of life.
(2) Sex change surgery is still the best treatment for carefully screened, adult patients, whose gender dysphoria has proven resistant to other forms of treatment.
(3) Sex change surgery should not be considered for any patient until that patient has reached the age of 21 years and has lived for at least two years in the desired gender role.
(4) Gender dysphoria is not a sexual orientation, but it is virtually always preceded or accompanied by an atypical sexual orientation – in males, either homosexuality (sexual arousal by members of one’s own biological sex) . . .
or autogynephilia (sexual arousal at the thought or image of oneself as a female).
(5) There are two main types of gender dysphoria in males, one associated with homosexuality and one associated with autogynephilia. Traditionally, the great bulk of female-to-male transsexuals has been homosexual in erotic object choice.
(6) The sex of a postoperative transsexual should be analogous to a legal fiction. This legal fiction would apply to some things (e.g., sex designation on a driver’s license) but not to others (entering a sports competition as one’s adopted sex).

This is him speakin to Benjamin Boyce yesterday. It is worth listening to, in order to understand that people are not hate filled bigots if they offer a different and in this case very informed perspective. He is a very reasonable man, a long time expert in the area and someone who has been subject to a campaign of utter villification by activists. He also says that the ''end justifies the means'' attitude being taken at the moment towards the clamp down on free speech is very alarming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qUH-5ixz70

Candamir · 15-05-2019 7:07pm

“If the science hurts your feelings, we need to suppress the science”

That seems to be about the crux of the trans activist agenda alright :rolleyes:

TuringBot47 · 15-05-2019 7:08pm

Candamir wrote: »

“If the science hurts your feelings, we need to suppress the science”

That seems to be about the crux of the trans activist agenda alright :rolleyes:

Like Coke Cola and sugar related health research.

LLMMLL · 15-05-2019 7:46pm

Candamir wrote: »

LLMMLL wrote: »

So you pick one member of a minority that behaves in a reprehensible manner and try to paint it as an issue inherent to that minority?

The main complaint here is the classification of crimes by transgender women as ‘female’ crimes, and the poor judgment in choosing this person as an advisor and trainer on gender issues.

Have you any thoughts on that? Do you think it’s a fair concern? If she is convicted and gets a custodial sentence, do you think it’s safe for other women to be housed with her?

Might it be more useful to categorise the crime as transgender MtF? At least then it would give a good indication if violence was in fact an issue in that cohort and would arm us with the information to deal with that.

I seriously doubt crime stats are skewed by the tiny number of violent transgender people. One of the most ridiculous things I've heard.

I doubt either males or females would be safe being housed with this violent person

TuringBot47 · 15-05-2019 7:56pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

I seriously doubt crime stats are skewed by the tiny number of violent transgender people. One of the most ridiculous things I've heard.

I doubt either males or females would be safe being housed with this violent person

The point is that transgender groups are quick to highlight high levels of depression and suicide among their group.

Without getting into gender vs sex, in general in depression "men get mad and women get sad"... men express anger which may end up in violence.
Whether trans women with testosterone treatment face similar issues like "roid rage"... who knows.

But altering human hormones does affect mood and we're much more susceptible to behavior from mood than we really are self aware of.

LLMMLL · 15-05-2019 7:58pm

TuringBot47 wrote: »

LLMMLL wrote: »

I seriously doubt crime stats are skewed by the tiny number of violent transgender people. One of the most ridiculous things I've heard.

I doubt either males or females would be safe being housed with this violent person

The point is that transgender groups are quick to highlight high levels of depression and suicide among their group.

Without getting into gender vs sex, in general in depression "men get mad and women get sad"... men express anger which may end up in violence.
Whether trans women with testosterone treatment face similar issues like "roid rage"... who knows.

But altering human hormones does affect mood and we're much more susceptible to behavior from mood than we really are self aware of.

There are many groups that I could come up with a pie in the sky theory why they MIGHT be more likely to act violently than average.

Doesn't mean the police should record it in some specialized way.

Danzy · 15-05-2019 8:27pm

Patty Hearst wrote: »

This 'Woman' attacked a young girl with a hammer but luckily the cops had their priorities straight and recorded the crime as having being committed by a woman.

The 'Woman' also happened to be an advisor to the local police on Gender, Equality and Diversity issues.

I wonder will she lose her job now?

Hopefully if she is sentenced to prison, she will not do as a recent transsexual did, flash her erect penis at staff and prisoners and go on t to rape a female prisoner.

I miss the days when the Left was not dominated by crazy middle class kids.

TuringBot47 · 15-05-2019 9:20pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

There are many groups that I could come up with a pie in the sky theory why they MIGHT be more likely to act violently than average.

Doesn't mean the police should record it in some specialized way.

It's not a pie in the sky theory though.
The trans community are saying they are more vulnerable to depression and suicide.
In any population segment that statistically means more aggression, even if it's just passive aggression like the constant reporting of posts here, Twitter etc. And that definitely polarizes opinions

LLMMLL · 15-05-2019 9:23pm

TuringBot47 wrote:

The trans community are saying they are more vulnerable to depression and suicide.
In any population segment that statistically means more aggression

Can you link to the statistics please

TuringBot47 · 15-05-2019 9:30pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

Can you link to the statistics please

Can you not Google them yourself?
Here's a sample.

https

/www .psychiatrictimes .com/special-reports/depressive-symptoms-associated-aggression

I think I originally read it on psychology today, with the headline "men get mad women get sad" about different approaches to depression based on sex.

LLMMLL · 15-05-2019 11:52pm

TuringBot47 wrote: »

LLMMLL wrote: »

Can you link to the statistics please

Can you not Google them yourself?
Here's a sample.

https /www .psychiatrictimes .com/special-reports/depressive-symptoms-associated-aggression

I think I originally read it on psychology today, with the headline "men get mad women get sad" about different approaches to depression based on sex.

" Authors of the study emphasized, however, that the overwhelming majority of depressed people are neither violent nor criminal, and should not be stigmatized."

But hey, when it's trans people let's get the police to record their crimes as a special category.

Zorya · 16-05-2019 7:49am

LLMMLL wrote: »

But hey, when it's trans people let's get the police to record their crimes as a special category.

Yes, trans peoples crimes should be recorded separately or in the sex of their birth because to do otherwise undermines criminological research and policy making. Criminology is an important study which cannot be undermined. Even if the numbers are small, the rape statistics for example would be among the first to be skewed. Women do rape, that is for sure and it is under-reported, which is a disgrace. But they rape differently - they do not rape with their own penises.

How about medical records? Keeping a record of biological facts?

A transman's child was delivered stillborn recently because they were recorded as being male on their hospital records. Therefore when they presented in emergency with severe abdominal pain they were not triaged fast enough as the staff did not suspect they were pregnant.
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/05/15/health/ap-us-med-pregnant-man.html

What is one supposed to do? Test all men and women for possible pregnancy in emergency rooms? Is it not far more sensible to recognise biological realities, use legal fictions for the purpose of protecting basic rights, but not push to and over the boundaries of idiocy in an attempt to be politically correct?

Candamir · 16-05-2019 11:35am

LLMMLL wrote: »

I seriously doubt crime stats are skewed by the tiny number of violent transgender people. One of the most ridiculous things I've heard.

I doubt either males or females would be safe being housed with this violent person

And “sure there’s only a few of them” is one of the most ridiculous reasons I’ve ever heard for purposely miscatagorise a population for statistical records.

LLMMLL · 16-05-2019 11:59am

Candamir wrote: »

LLMMLL wrote: »

I seriously doubt crime stats are skewed by the tiny number of violent transgender people. One of the most ridiculous things I've heard.

I doubt either males or females would be safe being housed with this violent person

And “sure there’s only a few of them” is one of the most ridiculous reasons I’ve ever heard for purposely miscatagorise a population for statistical records.

"purposely miscategorize" is your opinion. As far as I'm concerned it is not a case of male on female violence.

Candamir · 16-05-2019 12:03pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

"purposely miscategorize" is your opinion. As far as I'm concerned it is not a case of male on female violence.

It’s not my opinion. It should be categorised as trans MtF violent crime. Then there won’t be any skewing of stats, and authorities will know where to best channel resources. Everyone is a winner. (Apart from the victim of the hammer crime obvs)

LLMMLL · 16-05-2019 12:22pm

Zorya wrote: »

LLMMLL wrote: »

But hey, when it's trans people let's get the police to record their crimes as a special category.

Yes, trans peoples crimes should be recorded separately or in the sex of their birth because to do otherwise undermines criminological research and policy making. Criminology is an important study which cannot be undermined. Even if the numbers are small, the rape statistics for example would be among the first to be skewed. Women do rape, that is for sure and it is under-reported, which is a disgrace. But they rape differently - they do not rape with their own penises.

And you know this difference is of criminological interest......how?

Did the trans woman who attacked with the hammer attack in a different way than a cis man or cis woman with a hammer did?

How about medical records? Keeping a record of biological facts?

A transman's child was delivered stillborn recently because they were recorded as being male on their hospital records. Therefore when they presented in emergency with severe abdominal pain they were not triaged fast enough as the staff did not suspect they were pregnant.
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/05/15/health/ap-us-med-pregnant-man.html

What is one supposed to do? Test all men and women for possible pregnancy in emergency rooms? Is it not far more sensible to recognise biological realities, use legal fictions for the purpose of protecting basic rights, but not push to and over the boundaries of idiocy in an attempt to be politically correct?

Did you even read the article you posted? It doesn't support you at all. Here are some relevant quotes:

"He was rightly classified as a man" in the medical records and appears masculine, Stroumsa said. "But that classification threw us off from considering his actual medical needs."

The 32-year-old patient told the nurse he was transgender when he arrived at the emergency room

A home pregnancy test was positive and he said he had "peed himself" — a possible sign of ruptured membranes and labor. A nurse ordered a pregnancy test but considered him stable and his problems non-urgent.

You can keep reading to the end yourself.

The nurse was fully aware that he was a trans man with a positive pregnancy test. It was HER BIAS that is being criticized in the article.

Whether there was an official record of the sex he was assigned at birth would have made ZERO difference.

LLMMLL · 16-05-2019 12:27pm

Candamir wrote: »

LLMMLL wrote: »

"purposely miscategorize" is your opinion. As far as I'm concerned it is not a case of male on female violence.

It’s not my opinion. It should be categorised as trans MtF violent crime. Then there won’t be any skewing of stats, and authorities will know where to best channel resources. Everyone is a winner. (Apart from the victim of the hammer crime obvs)

It is of course your opinion. The attack was a female on female crime and has been recorded as such.

And neither you nor Zorya have shown any evidence that resources need to be funnelled to trans woman crime against cis women. It's a really bizarre notion.

Candamir · 16-05-2019 1:34pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

Can you link to the statistics please

If only we had a robust way of collecting this kind of statistical data:rolleyes:

Candamir · 16-05-2019 1:38pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

It is of course your opinion. The attack was a female on female crime and has been recorded as such.

And neither you nor Zorya have shown any evidence that resources need to be funnelled to trans woman crime against cis women. It's a really bizarre notion.

Nobody mentioned funnelling resources to ‘trans woman crime against cis women’.
Having robust and meaningful statistics is a well established method at assessing needs and future needs of s population. It’s not something I made up yesterday.

Why are you so against meaningful statistics in this area?

And if you can’t see why this crime is not a straightforward ‘female on female attack’, then you are clearly sadly blinded by your own bias.

Wibbs · 16-05-2019 1:50pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

It is of course your opinion. The attack was a female on female crime and has been recorded as such.

And neither you nor Zorya have shown any evidence that resources need to be funnelled to trans woman crime against cis women. It's a really bizarre notion.

It's an equally bizarre notion to describe it as a female on female crime, but we are through the looking glass on this score.

Zorya · 16-05-2019 2:08pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

And you know this difference is of criminological interest......how?

Did the trans woman who attacked with the hammer attack in a different way than a cis man or cis woman with a hammer did?

Did you even read the article you posted? It doesn't support you at all. Here are some relevant quotes:

The 32-year-old patient told the nurse he was transgender when he arrived at the emergency room

You can keep reading to the end yourself.

The nurse was fully aware that he was a trans man with a positive pregnancy test. It was HER BIAS that is being criticized in the article.

Whether there was an official record of the sex he was assigned at birth would have made ZERO difference.

The patient was not treated fast enough. Because they were considered initially to be male. As per records and presentation. Fast enough is the issue. The delay resulted in the baby's death.

Zorya · 16-05-2019 2:12pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

It is of course your opinion. The attack was a female on female crime and has been recorded as such.

And neither you nor Zorya have shown any evidence that resources need to be funnelled to trans woman crime against cis women. It's a really bizarre notion.

If a transwoman rapes a woman you want it recorded as female on female crime?

BattleCorp · 16-05-2019 2:48pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

The attack was a female on female crime and has been recorded as such.

I'm kind of curious. If Donald Trump declared himself to be female tomorrow, would you consider him/her to be the first female president of the United States?

I would have classified the crime as transgender female on female crime.

eagle eye · 16-05-2019 3:16pm

My young fella says he wants to be a fish? What rights do trans-fish have? Will he be accepted as a fish by the other fish? Will people accept that he is now a fish? Will he be able to swim naked wherever he wants and sleep naked wherever he wants?
I'm thinking of bringing him to see a psychiatrist but I don't want to be considered transphobic.

LLMMLL · 16-05-2019 4:39pm

Zorya wrote: »

LLMMLL wrote: »

And you know this difference is of criminological interest......how?

Did the trans woman who attacked with the hammer attack in a different way than a cis man or cis woman with a hammer did?

Did you even read the article you posted? It doesn't support you at all. Here are some relevant quotes:

The 32-year-old patient told the nurse he was transgender when he arrived at the emergency room

You can keep reading to the end yourself.

The nurse was fully aware that he was a trans man with a positive pregnancy test. It was HER BIAS that is being criticized in the article.

Whether there was an official record of the sex he was assigned at birth would have made ZERO difference.

The patient was not treated fast enough. Because they were considered initially to be male. As per records and presentation. Fast enough is the issue. The delay resulted in the baby's death.

The patient informed the nurse of both being a trans man and having a positive pregnancy test. And presented with typical symptoms. Are you saying that if the nurse saw on the patients record that they were trans the outcome would have been different, even though the patient personally informed the nurse of this??? Can you expand on what difference this would have made?

LLMMLL · 16-05-2019 4:56pm

Candamir wrote: »

LLMMLL wrote: »

It is of course your opinion. The attack was a female on female crime and has been recorded as such.

And neither you nor Zorya have shown any evidence that resources need to be funnelled to trans woman crime against cis women. It's a really bizarre notion.

Nobody mentioned funnelling resources to ‘trans woman crime against cis women’.
Having robust and meaningful statistics is a well established method at assessing needs and future needs of s population. It’s not something I made up yesterday.

Why are you so against meaningful statistics in this area?

And if you can’t see why this crime is not a straightforward ‘female on female attack’, then you are clearly sadly blinded by your own bias.

Because you have yet to show that the statistics are meaningful.

Candamir · 16-05-2019 6:10pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

Because you have yet to show that the statistics are meaningful.

That is a truly dumb argument! Statistics are used in all walk of life to measure, plan, record etc etc. This is not new. If they were of no use, millions of people around the world would have stopped collecting them decades ago.

Then again, difficult to show statistics are meaningful when you don’t want them to be collected in the first place.

What are you afraid of??

LLMMLL · 16-05-2019 6:17pm

Candamir wrote: »

LLMMLL wrote: »

Because you have yet to show that the statistics are meaningful.

That is a truly dumb argument! Statistics are used in all walk of life to measure, plan, record etc etc. This is not new. If they were of no use, millions of people around the world would have stopped collecting them decades ago.

Then again, difficult to show statistics are meaningful when you don’t want them to be collected in the first place.

What are you afraid of??

Stigmatization obviously.

You have yet to show any good reason to collect statistics on violence perpetrated by trans people.

You think my argument is dumb??? The best you can come up with is that "all stats are useful". Must ask the police to start collecting stats on how.many people with black hair ran a red light on the 23rd of December.

Surely that's not ridiculous if all statistics are automatically meaningful.

Candamir · 16-05-2019 6:20pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

The patient informed the nurse of both being a trans man and having a positive pregnancy test. And presented with typical symptoms. Are you saying that if the nurse saw on the patients record that they were trans the outcome would have been different, even though the patient personally informed the nurse of this??? Can you expand on what difference this would have made?

You really can’t comment on the sequence of events based on a second hand journalists report of a case study from a medical journal. Unfortunately, the original paper from the NEJM isn’t linked. There does seem to have been an issue however with the patients triage and timely intervention, and if the patient had presented as female, she would likely have been better assessed.

There’s also a quote in the NYT article regarding trans people’s access to gender specific medical treatment and screening. That’s another good reason to have a separate categorisation (rather than completely burying the past identity) as it would allow for example, FtM to access such things as breast and cervical screening which is not offered to men.

Candamir · 16-05-2019 6:23pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

Stigmatization obviously.

You have yet to show any good reason to collect statistics on violence perpetrated by trans people.

You think my argument is dumb??? The best you can come up with is that "all stats are useful". Must ask the police to start collecting stats on how.many people with black hair ran a red light on the 23rd of December.

Surely that's not ridiculous if all statistics are automatically meaningful.

You’re afraid collecting stats on transgender MtF violent crime would stigmatise transgender people? Surly that would only be in the realms of possibility if they actually were responsible for more violent crime. (Do you know something the rest of us don’t?) Any if they were responsible for significantly more violent crime, we should bloody well know about it, don’t ya think?

LLMMLL · 16-05-2019 6:25pm

Candamir wrote: »

LLMMLL wrote: »

The patient informed the nurse of both being a trans man and having a positive pregnancy test. And presented with typical symptoms. Are you saying that if the nurse saw on the patients record that they were trans the outcome would have been different, even though the patient personally informed the nurse of this??? Can you expand on what difference this would have made?

You really can’t comment on the sequence of events based on a second hand journalists report of a case study from a medical journal. Unfortunately, the original paper from the NEJM isn’t linked. There does seem to have been an issue however with the patients triage and timely intervention, and if the patient had presented as female, she would likely have been better assessed.

There’s also a quote in the NYT article regarding trans people’s access to gender specific medical treatment and screening. That’s another good reason to have a separate categorisation (rather than completely burying the past identity) as it would allow for example, FtM to access such things as breast and cervical screening which is not offered to men.

Ah here I didn't post the article. Funny you didn't complain about the second hand journalism when Zorya presented the article as evidence in favour of your argument.

If you mean "presented as female" as presented having a female appearance then yes, that's the point the author of the study was making. But trans men do not present as female. What is your point?

Either way, according to the only evidence we have, the nurse was fully aware that the patient was a trans man with a positive pregnancy test. Having an official record of their trans status wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference.

LLMMLL · 16-05-2019 6:26pm

Candamir wrote: »

LLMMLL wrote: »

Stigmatization obviously.

You have yet to show any good reason to collect statistics on violence perpetrated by trans people.

You think my argument is dumb??? The best you can come up with is that "all stats are useful". Must ask the police to start collecting stats on how.many people with black hair ran a red light on the 23rd of December.

Surely that's not ridiculous if all statistics are automatically meaningful.

You’re afraid collecting stats on transgender MtF violent crime would stigmatise transgender people? Surly that would only be in the realms of possibility if they actually were responsible for more violent crime. (Do you know something the rest of us don’t?) Any if they were responsible for significantly more violent crime, we should bloody well know about it, don’t ya think?

Nope you are incorrect that stigmatization could only occur if there was an actual issue.

Candamir · 16-05-2019 6:30pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

Ah here I didn't post the article. Funny you didn't complain about the second hand journalism when Zorya presented the article as evidence in favour of your argument.

If you mean "presented as female" as presented having a female appearance then yes, that's the point the author of the study was making. But trans men do not present as female. What is your point?

Either way, according to the only evidence we have, the nurse was fully aware that the patient was a trans man with a positive pregnancy test. Having an official record of their trans status wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference.

It’s not “my argument”. I’m just pointing out the difficulty with making conclusions based on not expert journalistic reporting. That’s all. Don’t get your knickers in a twist.

Zorya’s point re the timeline of when the nurse was fully aware of what, is the critical point in the case.

Zorya · 16-05-2019 6:32pm

Did I miss the place where you responded to this, LLMMLL?
''If a transwoman rapes a woman you want it recorded as female on female crime?''

Candamir · 16-05-2019 6:33pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

Nope you are incorrect that stigmatization could only occur if there was an actual issue.

Since you seem to think that stigmatisation already exists, surly statics that show transgender women are not more violent than cis women would improve the situation?

Or do you think it would reinforce it?:rolleyes:

LLMMLL · 16-05-2019 6:37pm

Candamir wrote: »

LLMMLL wrote: »

Nope you are incorrect that stigmatization could only occur if there was an actual issue.

Since you seem to think that stigmatisation already exists, surly statics that show transgender women are not more violent than cis women would improve the situation?

Or do you think it would reinforce it?:rolleyes:

I actually didn't think trans women were stigmatized as violent until you, Zorya and friends attempted to do so with an individual case.

Candamir · 16-05-2019 6:39pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

I actually didn't think trans women were stigmatized as violent until you, Zorya and friends attempted to do so with an individual case.

Now, I really did miss the bit where I stigmatised trans women as violent!

Do you often go looking for offence when none is there?

Woman Loses Job for Holding Gender Critical Opinions.

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