Bloody Sunday soldier to be charged with murder

lawred2 · 14-03-2019 4:50pm

partyguinness wrote: »

There will just be massive campaign to counter this with the old boys network clubbing together to paint him as a poor distressed soldier in an impossible situation doing his best with all sorts of pressure from the upper echelons of British society blah blah blah

Akin the SAS guy in Afghanistan who blatantly went up to a dying Afghani on the ground and shot him point blank in the chest. He even acknowledged what he was about to do was in violation of the Geneva Convention.

he'll probably get fêted on mass murder (sic. poppy) day

arybvtcw0eolkf · 14-03-2019 4:50pm

Beats me how they've only charged one soldier.

Unless the records of personal weapons issued to the soldiers on bloody sunday were destroyed it should have been the easiest thing in the world to trace bullets to a soldiers personal weapon.

That's providing of course that bullets remained in bodies. The weapons used on the day were the L1A1 SLR, it fired a 7.62mm round. At close range I'd imagine a lot passed through and exited the victims but enough should have been removed from victims to trace by more than one weapon.

Each weapon is a personal issue, signed for by the soldier.

Soldier F must be pushing 70 years old, even if he's found guilty and convicted of murder he's lived the vast majority of his life as a free man.

The people of Derry will never receive justice for bloody Sunday.

Odhinn · 14-03-2019 4:55pm

Nicholas Thoughtless Searchlight wrote: »

Beats me how they've only charged one soldier.

Unless the records of personal weapons issued to the soldiers on bloody sunday were destroyed it should have been the easiest thing in the world to trace bullets to a soldiers personal weapon.

That's providing of course that bullets remained in bodies. The weapons used on the day were the L1A1 SLR, it fired a 7.62mm round. At close range I'd imagine a lot passed through and exited the victims but enough should have been removed from victims to trace by more than one weapon.

Each weapon is a personal issue, signed for by the soldier.

Soldier F must be pushing 70 years old, even if he's found guilty and convicted of murder he's lived the vast majority of his life as a free man.

The people of Derry will never receive justice for bloody Sunday.

No, they probably won't.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/destruction-of-two-bloody-sunday-guns-criticised-1.246791

partyguinness · 14-03-2019 5:03pm

Nicholas Thoughtless Searchlight wrote: »

Beats me how they've only charged one soldier.

I imagine it is because he was so shamefully blatant that even the powers that be could not brush this one under the carpet.

partyguinness · 14-03-2019 5:08pm

RasTa wrote: »

I would take great pleasure in watching this man being skinned alive

Now now there is no need for that type of talk. We are better than that.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 14-03-2019 5:08pm

Odhinn wrote: »

No, they probably won't.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/destruction-of-two-bloody-sunday-guns-criticised-1.246791

That's crazy.

Cock up or cover up its madness and ads fuel to the fire of cover ups.

Knowing from my own experience how weapons are controlled, how they're accounted for, what happens (even to obsolete weapons) when they leave the armoury I 'tend to think there's something sinister at play here.

Like I said the people of Derry won't receive Justice here no more than the people of Argentina will receive justice, or even a decent enquiry into allegations that the Parachute Regiment commited war crimes when they murdered Argentine POW's

partyguinness · 14-03-2019 5:11pm

Nicholas Thoughtless Searchlight wrote: »

Knowing from my own experience how weapons are controlled, how they're accounted for, what happens (even to obsolete weapons) when they leave the armoury I 'tend to think there's something sinister at play here.

No **** Sherlock...:p

I suppose any chance anyone has seen the results of the investigation with the 'independent observer'.

Wheres Me Jumper? · 14-03-2019 5:16pm

if this had happened in any other country during any period of conflict, then this would have been buried and never seen the light of day.

Laois_Man · 14-03-2019 5:19pm

Soldier Dave F is probably in his 70's now - possibly more. I have no doubt that the start of his trial will be delayed and delayed until the ****er is dead. It already being 16 years since Dave testified at the inquiry presided over by Mark Saville is evidence of that, if evidence were needed - It might as well have been an inquiry presided over by Jimmy Savile!

steddyeddy · 14-03-2019 5:36pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Also, unlike for those murdered by paramilitaries, the families of those killed by the British Army suffered the stigma of having their loved-ones described as nail-bombers and shooters. When the soldiers were found innocent it automatically laid the blame with those they killed.

That's an extremely good point. In all of these conversations about Bloody Sunday there's always a substantial proportion of the British populace convinced the protesters must have deserved it. Can you imagine Irish people questioning whether British people deserved to be killed by the IRA? I think we're far more civilised about it.

FrancieBrady · 14-03-2019 5:39pm

Perifectamania wrote: »

The PIRA blew 18 members of the parachute regiment to bits in Warrenpoint and slaughtered over 1,000 of the British armed forces. It's hard to have sympathy for them when you read the things they did including on Bloody Sunday.

Nobody is asking you to 'have sympathy for the IRA'.

Crock Rock · 14-03-2019 5:41pm

Queen betty should have to answer why it gave bravery medals to the paratroopers. Hopefully it'll be dead soon too. (Bye it I mean betty).

Edgware · 14-03-2019 6:11pm

Laois_Man wrote: »

Soldier Dave F is probably in his 70's now - possibly more. I have no doubt that the start of his trial will be delayed and delayed until the ****er is dead. It already being 16 years since Dave testified at the inquiry presided over by Mark Saville is evidence of that, if evidence were needed - It might as well have been an inquiry presided over by Jimmy Savile!

Soldier Fs legal team will drag this out, demanding a trial in England and end up using the Ivor Bell defence of dementia, unfit to plead etc.

Edgware · 14-03-2019 6:15pm

Nicholas Thoughtless Searchlight wrote: »

Beats me how they've only charged one soldier.

Unless the records of personal weapons issued to the soldiers on bloody sunday were destroyed it should have been the easiest thing in the world to trace bullets to a soldiers personal weapon.

That's providing of course that bullets remained in bodies. The weapons used on the day were the L1A1 SLR, it fired a 7.62mm round. At close range I'd imagine a lot passed through and exited the victims but enough should have been removed from victims to trace by more than one weapon.

Each weapon is a personal issue, signed for by the soldier.

Soldier F must be pushing 70 years old, even if he's found guilty and convicted of murder he's lived the vast majority of his life as a free man.

The people of Derry will never receive justice for bloody Sunday.

They won't receive justice. They will join a long queue of innocent people from both sides who will never see justice.

Havockk · 14-03-2019 6:48pm

Edgware wrote: »

Soldier Fs legal team will drag this out, demanding a trial in England and end up using the Ivor Bell defence of dementia, unfit to plead etc.

That's in another legal system. This one has to take place in the North, I'd speculate Belfast rather than Derry given the circumstances.

FrancieBrady · 14-03-2019 6:55pm

Havockk wrote: »

That's in another legal system. This one has to take place in the North, I'd speculate Belfast rather than Derry given the circumstances.

Yes, Belfast seems to be where it will be.

They have probably chosen the soldier who is least likely to sing like a canary now his liberty is threatened.

He may even have indicated he would take one for the team.

Timberrrrrrrr · 14-03-2019 7:18pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

That's an extremely good point. In all of these conversations about Bloody Sunday there's always a substantial proportion of the British populace convinced the protesters must have deserved it. Can you imagine Irish people questioning whether British people deserved to be killed by the IRA? I think we're far more civilised about it.

You should check out some of the threads then, plenty of posters over the years have claimed Birmingham/Warrington bombings (killing of innocents) were justified and the dead were "collateral damage".

Sure it was a "war" and they had to do it is a line often used by the more extreme republican zealots.

lawred2 · 14-03-2019 7:21pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You should check out some of the threads then, plenty of posters over the years have claimed Birmingham/Warrington bombings (killing of innocents) were justified and the dead were "collateral damage".

Sure it was a "war" and they had to do it is a line often used by the more extreme republican zealots.

Can you link to those threads please?

Timberrrrrrrr · 14-03-2019 7:25pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Can you link to those threads please?

The annual poppy threads would be a good start, anything about the IRA after that.

Wheres Me Jumper? · 14-03-2019 7:33pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You should check out some of the threads then, plenty of posters over the years have claimed Birmingham/Warrington bombings (killing of innocents) were justified and the dead were "collateral damage".

Sure it was a "war" and they had to do it is a line often used by the more extreme republican zealots.

that's the thing that confuses me about the troubles.
was it a war or wasn't it?
it seems each side called it a war when it suited them, and then described it as not being a war when it suited them.

eg hunger-strikers were convinced to the point of starving themselves to death that they were military combatants engaged in a war.
Thatcher disagreed. Tories regularily describe the IRA as criminals. I now hear military sources in London say the Paras were entering a warzone, yet Republicans vehemently do not concur.
Confused?

Havockk · 14-03-2019 7:34pm

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

that's the thing that confuses me about the troubles.
was it a war or wasn't it?
it seems each side called it a war when it suited them, and then described it as not being a war when it suited them.

eg hunger-strikers were convinced to the point of starving themselves to death that they were military combatants engaged in a war.
Thatcher disagreed. Tories regularily describe the IRA as criminals. I now hear military sources in London say the Paras were entering a warzone, yet Republicans vehemently do not concur.
Confused?

You're defending a lying murderous bastard. If that's the best you can do you can have it.

UDAWINNER · 14-03-2019 7:36pm

No justice at all only 1 scumbag charged. I hope people that buy poppies later this year know these are the fcuckers that you are giving money to. Hope the rest of the murderers burn in hell as well as their commanders.

steddyeddy · 14-03-2019 7:38pm

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

that's the thing that confuses me about the troubles.
was it a war or wasn't it?
it seems each side called it a war when it suited them, and then described it as not being a war when it suited them.

eg hunger-strikers were convinced to the point of starving themselves to death that they were military combatants engaged in a war.
Thatcher disagreed. Tories regularily describe the IRA as criminals. I now hear military sources in London say the Paras were entering a warzone, yet Republicans vehemently do not concur.
Confused?

Ye the British response has been funny to say the least. So many commentators are suggesting these "poor, frightened lads were dropped into a warzone".

castletownman · 14-03-2019 7:40pm

The one thing I will say we are a very sympathetic people when it comes to international conflict. The poor Rohingya's are this decade's Biafrans. Wasn't the break-up of Yugoslavia just awful?

But yet when it comes to the Troubles, a conflict that happened in most of our lifetimes, and on this island don't forget, there is a lot of brushing under the carpet and ignorance.

Its hypocrisy.

Wheres Me Jumper? · 14-03-2019 7:41pm

Havockk wrote: »

You're defending a lying murderous bastard. If that's the best you can do you can have it.

i'm not defending anybody Paras, IRA, UVF etc.
why would any normal person defend these people?

jmayo · 14-03-2019 8:23pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

The infamous soldier F is to be charged with murder the BBC have revealed. Far too late in my opinion. Dealing with murderers by the legal system rather than promoting them and giving them medals would have prevented much of the troubles.

Testimony from the Saville inquiry if anyone's in doubt over this man's character:

Why can't the fooker now be named ?

Feisar wrote: »

People trained as aggressive front line soldiers acted like aggressive front line soldiers. Hard to blame the individuals, they people that thought it a good idea are at fault.

If one has a hammer everything looks like a nail, soldiers have guns, what do you expect them to do, they are one trick ponies.

Ahh FFS.

The individuals concerned went out of their way to shoot unarmed civilians, including wounded civilians.

No wonder that there was glee in a lot of places, both North and South, the day that the 16 paras got slaughtered in Warrenpoint.

They were up to their old tricks that day as well when they shot and killed one civilian and wounded another who were standing on the shore of the Republic side of the lough.

Galwayguy35 · 14-03-2019 8:41pm

BBC News interviewed a few ex paras in London earlier on, they hadn't one word about the victims just whinging that yer man was going to be prosecuted.

It's no wonder the Catholics in the North hated them.

Wheres Me Jumper? · 14-03-2019 8:49pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

BBC News interviewed a few ex paras in London earlier on, they hadn't one word about the victims just whinging that yer man was going to be prosecuted.

It's no wonder the Catholics in the North hated them.

Here's what their former commander Derek Wilford said,

... he remains steadfastly defiant, standing by his men until the end. He is appalled at the possibility of his soldiers facing prosecution.

"I don't believe they were capable of that sort of indiscriminate shooting and killing," he said.

Can you believe that?!!:eek:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-47559123

Shelga · 14-03-2019 8:51pm

Johnny Mercer on C4 news whinging too that it was unfair. Wonder if he’d feel that way if his unarmed 17 year old child was shot in the back while trying to escape these trigger-happy murdering scumbags.

Odhinn · 14-03-2019 9:00pm

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

Here's what their former commander Derek Wilford said,
... he remains steadfastly defiant, standing by his men until the end. He is appalled at the possibility of his soldiers facing prosecution.

"I don't believe they were capable of that sort of indiscriminate shooting and killing," he said.
Can you believe that?!!:eek:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-47559123

It wasn't indiscriminate - those targeted were almost entirely 'men of fighting age' and picked out from the crowd. It's precisely how they "policed" rowdy natives all over the empire. Wilford would know this full well.

Havockk · 14-03-2019 9:52pm

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

Here's what their former commander Derek Wilford said,

... he remains steadfastly defiant, standing by his men until the end. He is appalled at the possibility of his soldiers facing prosecution.

"I don't believe they were capable of that sort of indiscriminate shooting and killing," he said.

Can you believe that?!!:eek:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-47559123

Let's not forget that 5 months earlier the same regiment slaughtered civilians in Belfast. One has to wonder what the bastards did when they were deployed to the likes of Palestine before they were sent to teach the Irish a lesson.

Esel · 14-03-2019 11:57pm

UDAWINNER wrote: »

No justice at all only 1 scumbag charged. I hope people that buy poppies later this year know these are the fcuckers that you are giving money to. Hope the rest of the murderers burn in hell as well as their commanders.

Username is confusing...

Wheres Me Jumper? · 15-03-2019 1:07am

there was a legal expert, Eoin Paul McDermott on TV earlier explaining why it is so difficult to get a criminal prosecution/conviction. Proof beyond all reasonable doubt, proving intent etc. etc.

surely if a bullet is removed from a corpse, and forensic analysis can prove that bullet was fired from a certain weapon, then am i naive to imagine the person who discharged that weapon is guilty of murder? am i missing something?

i would say put them before a jury or an independent judge, and let them decide.

Cookie_Monster · 15-03-2019 1:16am

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

if this had happened in any other country during any period of conflict, then this would have been buried and never seen the light of day.

not really, NZ going through the same stuff at the moment for 6 civilians allegedly killed in Afganistan by NZDF

Realtai · 15-03-2019 8:16am

Samuel Vimes wrote: »

British Justice?
The Ministry of Defence has announced that it pay all his legal bills UK Defence Minister Gavin Williamson said ""We are indebted to those soldiers who served with courage and distinction to bring peace to Northern Ireland"
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-47540271

Peace my arse! They started some of the violence in NI. :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady · 15-03-2019 9:21am

The full judgement:
https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/2019/03/summary-of-reasons-not-to-prosecute.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1o5CLjvzkYPLbrobS-HGO2JkDW7NGK-HX2l0h27Ok9qp1u6zEpARaySYM

twinytwo · 15-03-2019 9:54am

Will never get to trial. Britain has a long history of atrocities and war crimes against civilians all over the globe that they will never be held accountable for. None of which is ever mentioned in the british education system so for the most part people are arrogant of the facts.

Funnily the paras deny it even though testimony from other soldiers who were there admit that the people shot were not armed and did not provoke.

Cowards and criminals the lot of them.

Berserker · 15-03-2019 9:59am

twinytwo wrote: »

Will never get to trial.

Got a crystal ball, have you?

UDAWINNER wrote: »

No justice at all only 1 scumbag charged. I hope people that buy poppies later this year know these are the fcuckers that you are giving money to.

I'll be buying one and wearing it with pride. A very poor attempt to sully the poppy on your part.

Odhinn · 15-03-2019 10:03am

Berserker wrote: »

Got a crystal ball, have you?

I'll be buying one and wearing it with pride. A very poor attempt to sully the poppy on your part.

He doesn't have to "sully" it, thats british armys job (and one they've carried out quite well).

FrancieBrady · 15-03-2019 10:04am

Berserker wrote: »

Got a crystal ball, have you?

I'll be buying one and wearing it with pride. A very poor attempt to sully the poppy on your part.

These men and their commanding officers and the entire judicial system that conspired to cover-up this for decades have done enough to 'sully' it on this island alone, I should think. Not to mention other outstanding actions.

joe40 · 15-03-2019 10:06am

Berserker wrote: »

twinytwo wrote: »

Will never get to trial.

Got a crystal ball, have you?

UDAWINNER wrote: »

No justice at all only 1 scumbag charged. I hope people that buy poppies later this year know these are the fcuckers that you are giving money to.

I'll be buying one and wearing it with pride. A very poor attempt to sully the poppy on your part.

The paratroopers sullied the poppy by killing innocent civilians.
You continue if you want but you are supporting the totality of the British army, including the several atrocities worldwide.
Bloody sunday is only one.

lawred2 · 15-03-2019 10:10am

joe40 wrote: »

The paratroopers sullied the poppy by killing innocent civilians.
You continue if you want but you are supporting the totality of the British army, including the several atrocities worldwide.
Bloody sunday is only one.

Wouldn't bother kicking off another poppy debate. Those that wear it only get more determined to wear it when questioned about it. Best to ignore it and not give the symbol any credence whatsoever.

One man's hero is another man's murderer.

janfebmar · 15-03-2019 10:38am

twinytwo wrote: »

the people shot were not armed and did not provoke.

In this picture taken minutes before the firing on Bloody Sunday you can get an idea of the tensions at the time. All of the stones / rocks on the road do not justify shots / firing.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/bloody-sunday-paras-were-the-wrong-regiment-in-the-wrong-place-1.2424550
Just because two policemen (one Catholic and one Protestant) were shot in Derry only three days before Bloody Sunday does not justify violence on the day itself. The soldiers should have followed the rule of law. No excuse for soldiers for firing live rounds , or indeed for the IRA man (who Fr. Daly saw and testified about firing three rounds) either. There were innocent people killed that day and that was wrong.

Berserker · 15-03-2019 10:44am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

These men and their commanding officers and the entire judicial system that conspired to cover-up this for decades have done enough to 'sully' it on this island alone, I should think. Not to mention other outstanding actions.

It may be sullied in the eyes of the nationalist community on the northern part of island and the republican community south of the border, two communities who have questionable morals as is but the rest of the people on the island understand what it stands for. It'll be worn and celebrated with pride later this year, as usual.

Odhinn · 15-03-2019 10:46am

Berserker wrote: »

It may be sullied in the eyes of the nationalist community on the northern part of island and the republican community south of the border, who have questionable morals as is but the rest of the people on the island understand what it stands for. It'll be worn and celebrated with pride later this year, as usual.

O we understand exactly what it stands for.

FrancieBrady · 15-03-2019 10:48am

Berserker wrote: »

It may be sullied in the eyes of the nationalist community on the northern part of island and the republican community south of the border, two communities who have questionable morals as is but the rest of the people on the island understand what it stands for. It'll be worn and celebrated with pride later this year, as usual.

I have no doubt it will be worn. But those wearing it will be telling themselves lies. The result of this process in Derry alone underlines that.

Berserker · 15-03-2019 10:49am

On another note, barely a mention of this on TV3 or the Beeb this morning. Thought they'd be all over it.

Odhinn wrote: »

O we understand exactly what it stands for.

Good stuff. It's used to commemorate military personnel who have died in war. All on the same page.

steddyeddy · 15-03-2019 10:53am

Berserker wrote: »

Got a crystal ball, have you?

I'll be buying one and wearing it with pride. A very poor attempt to sully the poppy on your part.

It might be a poor attempt but the conduct of the British army is doing a very good job of sullying the poppy.

steddyeddy · 15-03-2019 10:55am

Berserker wrote: »

It may be sullied in the eyes of the nationalist community on the northern part of island and the republican community south of the border, two communities who have questionable morals as is but the rest of the people on the island understand what it stands for. It'll be worn and celebrated with pride later this year, as usual.

Beserker I work in New York, Colorado and England. Disgust with Bloody Sunday and the behavioural of soldiers in Northern Ireland isn't confined to the nationalist community of Northern Ireland. Bloody Sunday is all I've been hearing about in America and the Americans will be watching very closely for justice to be served.

steddyeddy · 15-03-2019 10:58am

On another note it's interesting to hear my English colleagues, the English media and English politicians describe the troubles as a "war" now. I'm not sure they understand the implications of that.

Bloody Sunday soldier to be charged with murder

Comments