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"Man-made" Climate Change Lunathicks Out in Full Force

191012141527

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Dense demanding us attribute specific consequences to specific emissions is like an alcoholic demanding that a doctor explain specifically which bottle of cheap vodka gave him sirrhosis.

    Most people can drink all their lives and never get sirrhosis. But if you drink too much your body cannot process the toxic byproducts and eventually permanent damage is done.

    If you're an alcoholic with liver failure all alcohol is toxic. Some amount of alcohol will make you sick, too much will kill you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Dense demanding us attribute specific consequences to specific emissions is like an alcoholic demanding that a doctor explain specifically which bottle of cheap vodka gave him sirrhosis.


    Please don't misrepresent what I have asked.

    People like myself and Dr. JimBob who are sceptical of alarmists are likely to become even more sceptical as a result of you doing it.

    I asked you to quantify Ireland's contribution to global warming

    The alarmists have already quantified the warming that they say is due to humans emitting CO2.


    They say that from an undefined "pre industrial" baseline, C02 emissions have caused a temperature rise of c 1°C.


    Drilling down further it is found that they also claim to be able to attribute specific responsibility for this rise in temperature to specific companies.



    Research undertaken by earth scientists suggests that "The climate crisis of the 21st century has been caused largely by just 90 companies, which between them produced nearly two-thirds of the greenhouse gas emissions generated since the dawning of the industrial age".

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/nov/20/90-companies-man-made-global-warming-emissions-climate-change

    As I have said earlier, not one alarmist NGO has ever explained what affect on global warming will occur if Ireland follows their demands to stop emitting C02.


    And not one alarmist has ever explained what they believe Ireland's contribution to global warming to be.


    Instead of scraping the bottom of the barrel and talking about cheap vodka and trying to reject the fact that the earth scientists can now attribute global warming to specific companies, leading to you now seeming to reject the suggestion that global warming is being caused by national emissions, why not simply demonstrate our national contribution to global warming and our potential to stop it?

    And if you believe Ireland has contributed to global warming please show your calculations which permit you to arrive at that conclusion.



    You're not being asked if you believe in the tooth fairy, you're being asked what share of global warming, if any, is attributable to Ireland.

    You have said Ireland's per capita emissions have disproportionately affected global warming.

    You are clearly making this up, and are fantasising if you cannot demonstrate this disproportionate affect on global warning that you are imagining.



    If that doesn't interest you (and it clearly doesn't), you could always try to explain where we're going to reliably get 155Twh of renewable energy from annually to substitute the fossil fuel energy that we currently use.

    It's all very well for the alarmists continually whining about our need to nationally transition off of fossil fuels, but they're going to need to outline what they think that's going to achieve in terms of global warming and offer intelligent solutions regarding what's going to replace them.


    The leftys are great at being alarmed, not so good at providing solutions.


    Vision

    That Ireland makes a rapid and just transition to a carbon free future.


    https://www.stopclimatechaos.ie/about/


    Propaganda from the climate chaos alarmists, who also say they want to "engage" the public.


    Lots of vacuous bullshït there as there is from you too about Ireland's needing to accept
    its "fair share" of responsibility for causing climate change.

    And it's all trés cool hip and on trend as long as no one asks what share of global warming has been caused by Ireland.


    Cults and their followers don't like their policies being questioned, do they?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    dense wrote: »
    Please don't misrepresent what I have asked.

    People like myself and Dr. JimBob who are sceptical of alarmists are likely to become even more sceptical as a result of you doing it.

    I asked you to quantify Ireland's contribution to global warming

    The alarmists have already quantified the warming that they say is due to humans emitting CO2.


    They say that from an undefined "pre industrial" baseline, C02 emissions have caused a temperature rise of c 1°C.


    Drilling down further it is found that they also claim to be able to attribute specific responsibility for this rise in temperature to specific companies.



    Research undertaken by earth scientists suggests that "The climate crisis of the 21st century has been caused largely by just 90 companies, which between them produced nearly two-thirds of the greenhouse gas emissions generated since the dawning of the industrial age".

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/nov/20/90-companies-man-made-global-warming-emissions-climate-change

    As I have said earlier, not one alarmist NGO has ever explained what affect on global warming will occur if Ireland follows their demands to stop emitting C02.


    And not one alarmist has ever explained what they believe Ireland's contribution to global warming to be.


    Instead of scraping the bottom of the barrel and talking about cheap vodka and trying to reject the fact that the earth scientists can now attribute global warming to specific companies, leading to you now seeming to reject the suggestion that global warming is being caused by national emissions, why not simply demonstrate our national contribution to global warming and our potential to stop it?

    And if you believe Ireland has contributed to global warming please show your calculations which permit you to arrive at that conclusion.



    You're not being asked if you believe in the tooth fairy, you're being asked what share of global warming, if any, is attributable to Ireland.

    You have said Ireland's per capita emissions have disproportionately affected global warming.

    You are clearly making this up, and are fantasising if you cannot demonstrate this disproportionate affect on global warning that you are imagining.



    If that doesn't interest you (and it clearly doesn't), you could always try to explain where we're going to reliably get 155Twh of renewable energy from annually to substitute the fossil fuel energy that we currently use.

    It's all very well for the alarmists continually whining about our need to nationally transition off of fossil fuels, but they're going to need to outline what they think that's going to achieve in terms of global warming and offer intelligent solutions regarding what's going to replace them.


    The leftys are great at being alarmed, not so good at providing solutions.



    https://www.stopclimatechaos.ie/about/


    Propaganda from the climate chaos alarmists, who also say they want to "engage" the public.


    Lots of vacuous bullshït there as there is from you too about Ireland's needing to accept
    its "fair share" of responsibility for causing climate change.

    And it's all trés cool hip and on trend as long as no one asks what share of global warming has been caused by Ireland.


    Cults and their followers don't like their policies being questioned, do they?

    Christ your username is apt. Scientists can attribute emissions to individual countries,Companies, economic sectors etc so what. If you have a point other than cults blah blah socialism then get to it.

    BTW. Nobody has forgotten that you refused to answer a very simple question multiple times.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    But if you insist in quantifying the heat ireland been responsible for, it's the equivalent heat of 2,921,882 Hiroshima nuclear bombs since 1998 (and rising)
    http://4hiroshimas.com/#Home


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Akrasia wrote: »
    But if you insist in quantifying the heat ireland been responsible for, it's the equivalent heat of 2,921,882 Hiroshima nuclear bombs since 1998 (and rising)
    http://4hiroshimas.com/#Home

    It would be interesting to know why you think that Ireland's CO2 emissions have caused the equivalent heat of 2,921,882 Hiroshima nuclear bombs and what you think that translates to in terms of thousandths of a degree in a hypothetical 0.4°C degree of global warming scenario for that period, a period distinctly lacking any global warming.

    to:2018



    2m of the total 2,000,000,000 Hiroshima bombs you were talking about is around 0.1% of them.

    I'll let you work out what 0.1% of any alleged temperature rise for the period equates to in degrees Celsius.

    Think along the lines of 0.0004 degrees for 0.4° warming.

    Statistical noise basically.

    Your initial figure could have been just plucked from thin air after all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    dense wrote: »
    It would be interesting to know why you think that Ireland's CO2 emissions have caused the equivalent heat of 2,921,882 Hiroshima nuclear bombs and what you think that translates to in terms of thousandths of a degree in a hypothetical 0.4°C degree of global warming scenario for that period, a period distinctly lacking any global warming.

    to:2018



    2m of the total 2,000,000,000 Hiroshima bombs you were talking about is around 0.1% of them.

    I'll let you work out what 0.1% of any alleged temperature rise for the period equates to in degrees Celsius.

    Think along the lines of 0.0004 degrees for 0.4° warming.

    Statistical noise basically.

    Your initial figure could have been just plucked from thin air after all.

    It'd be more interesting to know why you have yet to answer Akrasia's question:

    'OK then Dense. Let's try something different. What do you think caused climate change in the past before humans arrived?'


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    DanDan6592 wrote: »
    It'd be more interesting to know why you have yet to answer Akrasia's question:

    'OK then Dense. Let's try something different. What do you think caused climate change in the past before humans arrived?'

    If you have been reading the last few pages you will be aware that I have already explained that I have no intention of entertaining Akrasia's invitation to go down a rabbit hole indulging their through the looking glass question about what caused pre human climate change.

    If you, Akrasia or others wish to advance and discuss reasons for climate change in pre human times there is nothing stopping you from doing so if that is your desire.

    But please be aware that Akrasia reguarly questions the reliability of historic pre 19th century data, so if you start referring to proxy data dating from pre human times expect it to be rejected.

    I hope that satisfactorily answers your question, and as always I look forward with interest to reading your comments here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Sorry Dense, of course the causes of climate change should be totally off topic in a discussion about the causes of climate change. You're totally right

    Now lets get back to your questions where you're trying to say that the equivalent energy of 2 million nuclear bombs is insignificant because humans are actually responsible for adding the equivalent of 2 billion nuclear bombs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,865 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    This thread is hilarious. As if there's any doubt.

    Seriously lads, argue about something where there is an actual argument on both sides.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Sorry Dense, of course the causes of climate change should be totally off topic in a discussion about the causes of climate change. You're totally right

    I totally said you and yours are quite free to discuss the causes of pre human climate change:
    dense wrote: »
    If you, Akrasia or others wish to advance and discuss reasons for climate change in pre human times there is nothing stopping you from doing so if that is your desire.

    Why pretend I said it was off topic?
    Akrasia wrote: »
    Now lets get back to your questions where you're trying to say that the equivalent energy of 2 million nuclear bombs is insignificant because humans are actually responsible for adding the equivalent of 2 billion nuclear bombs.

    Still waiting to find out how you have calculated that Ireland has set off the equivalent of 2m nuclear bombs of energy equivalent since 1998 and what "significant" increase in global temperatures you think Ireland's "detonation" of these nuclear bomb equivalents has caused.


    Will you share your data, calculations, sources and conclusions with us?

    Then we can have a look at you and your lefty friends proposals on how you'd substitute that alleged 2m Hiroshima bombsworth of energy with an alternative, reliable renewable energy source.

    I know they're probably all busy scouring property to occupy at the moment, but they seem highly intelligent and should be able to multitask whenever they're not tweeting about the need for a rapid transition to renewable energy and demanding more free stuff.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,397 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    dense wrote: »
    I totally said you and yours are quite free to discuss the causes of pre human climate change:



    Why pretend I said it was off topic?



    Still waiting to find out how you have calculated that Ireland has set off the equivalent of 2m nuclear bombs of energy equivalent since 1998 and what "significant" increase in global temperatures you think Ireland's "detonation" of these nuclear bomb equivalents has caused.


    Will you share your data, calculations, sources and conclusions with us?

    Then we can have a look at you and your lefty friends proposals on how you'd substitute that alleged 2m Hiroshima bombsworth of energy with an alternative, reliable renewable energy source.

    I know they're probably all busy scouring property to occupy at the moment, but they seem highly intelligent and should be able to multitask whenever they're not tweeting about the need for a rapid transition to renewable energy and demanding more free stuff.


    Like when you shared with us how you "calculated" 20twh (sic) to be approximately 20,000gwh (sic) by using a website that does the conversion for you? I wouldn't go asking for too much maths if I were you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    dense wrote: »
    I totally said you and yours are quite free to discuss the causes of pre human climate change:



    Why pretend I said it was off topic?
    There's no point discussing it with other people, everyone else already accepts that CO2 has been one of the main drivers of climate change now, and before humans arrived.

    CO2 concentrations in our atmosphere have been the fundamental predictor of global average temperature for millions of years. The deniers like you, need to explain how come now it's different. How come fluctuations in CO2 concentrations caused big swings in global temperature in the past, but not now, when we have already increased CO2 concnetrations to greater than they have been in at least the last 800k years (probably much more but ice cores only go back that far)
    paleo_keelinginset_v2_610.gif?itok=XThZLRXg

    Especially when the other drivers of climate, solar output, orbital eccentricity and changes to albido are easily ruled out as the drivers of current climate change


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    xckjoo wrote: »
    Like when you shared with us how you "calculated" 20twh (sic) to be approximately 20,000gwh (sic) by using a website that does the conversion for you? I wouldn't go asking for too much maths if I were you.


    Like when you fell off the wall and everyone laughed at you?


    In other words, link please, because I don't recall using any of those figures nor do I recall you piping up at the time to say my calculations were incorrect.


    If there is an error in my calculations concerning how much energy fossil fuels supply here and how much renewables do, link to it and then correct it.

    Actually I'll link to it to save you the trouble and you can check that it's ok.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=107955400&postcount=490

    Heres the online conversion tool to convert 14m tons of oil equivalence to Twh


    http://www.conversion-website.com/energy/ton-of-oil-equivalent-to-terawatt-hour.html


    Akrasia's new standard unit of 1 Hiroshima bomb isn't included there however, so I'm a little sceptical of you being able to verify their claims about Ireland setting off the equivalent of 2m of them since 1998 and their impact, if any, in degrees of global warming.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Akrasia wrote: »
    There's no point discussing it with other people, everyone else already accepts that CO2 has been one of the main drivers of climate change now, and before humans arrived.



    Especially when the other drivers of climate, solar output, orbital eccentricity and changes to albido are easily ruled out as the drivers of current climate change


    You seem to be uniquely personally burdened with experiencing "climate change" to a greater degree than is being observed.


    Nothing detrimental has come from the barely measurable "observed" (and adjusted) c 1°C of warming averaged from sparse measurements around the earth.



    You really need to stop being so alarmed and calling for urgent knee jerk reactions based on vacuous lefty environmental policy designed to push humanity back to the dark ages whilst harking for a global accord to force you to reduce your own carbon footprint.



    The UNIPCC is less convinced of this drama than you are:


    Detection and attribution



    The fact that the global mean temperature has increased since the
    late 19th century and that other trends have been observed does
    not necessarily mean that an anthropogenic effect on the climate
    system has been identified.



    Climate has always varied on all
    time-scales, so the observed change may be natural.



    https://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/wg1/045.htm


    The difficulties you have in getting others to be similarly alarmed at what essentially is normal weather ia summarised well in this paper:


    But what about the data sets used in these analyses? To detect an observed change in the climate system, particularly a change suitable for an attribution study, a data set of sufficient temporal and spatial coverage is necessary.

    Depending on the climate extreme, there is often a lack of observed climate data to document these events for many parts of the world. If the observations exist they often are not in digital form. Also, although the situation is changing, many countries continue to be reluctant to share them with the research community (Easterling, 2013, Kunkel and Frankson, 2015).

    As noted above, since the analysis of climate extremes often involves examination of the tails of a statistical distribution, a threshold value may be used to determine the number of observations that exceed that value over time creating a time series of exceedance counts.

    Data quality can impact the counts if there are a number of erroneous values that are not screened out by quality assurance methods, or if the quality assurance methods, which are often more concerned with mean values, are too rigorous and exclude true values.

    Additional issues include missing data, especially if those missing data would exceed an established threshold or would affect the calculation of the threshold itself. In terms of global analyses, data may be missing for large regions of the globe resulting in a less than true global analysis (Donat et al., 2013). Finally, if longer term data are available they are often observed at weather observing stations, such as at airports, and may be impacted by issues such as urbanization or less than ideal station siting which may result in lower quality data.



    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212094716300020


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    dense wrote: »
    You seem to be uniquely personally burdened with experiencing "climate change" to a greater degree than is being observed.


    Nothing detrimental has come from the barely measurable "observed" (and adjusted) c 1°C of warming averaged from sparse measurements around the earth.



    You really need to stop being so alarmed and calling for urgent knee jerk reactions based on vacuous lefty environmental policy designed to push humanity back to the dark ages whilst harking for a global accord to force you to reduce your own carbon footprint.



    The UNIPCC is less convinced of this drama than you are:





    https://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/wg1/045.htm
    You are so dishonest. That quoted section is not a conclusion of the IPCC, it is setting out the basis for their conclusions which are
    The SAR concluded nevertheless, on the basis of careful analyses, that �the observed change in global mean, annually averaged temperature over the last century is unlikely to be due entirely to natural fluctuations of the climate system�.
    and referring to attribution
    In this way the SAR found that �there is evidence of an emerging pattern of climate response to forcing by greenhouse gases and sulphate aerosols in the observed climate record�. Since the SAR new results have become available which tend to support this conclusion. The present status of the detection of climate change and attribution of its causes is assessed in Chapter 12.

    It is incredibly dishonest to selectively quote a source and misrepresent what that source actually says
    The difficulties you have in getting others to be similarly alarmed at what essentially is normal weather ia summarised well in this paper:
    You just threw out a section of a paper that talks about the challenges in attribution. What does this specific paper actually say about whether we can or can't attribute extreme weather events to climate change?
    Hence, it is often stated in the popular press after a notable extreme weather event that nothing can be said about the role of climate change in that particular event with some caveats that such events can be expected to become more common in the future. This statement is most often patently false. For much can be said about the effect of climate change on many recent extreme weather events in a probabilistic formalism. The rapidly emerging field of Probabilistic Extreme Event Attribution has quantified the effect of climate change on a wide variety of extreme weather (for instance see Peterson et al., 2012, 2013; Herring et al. 2014).

    The study starts off by talking about the limitations of relying on weather reports because they cannot be scientifically controlled, and then talks about the incredibly powerful modelling tools that we can use to assess changes to our climate and extreme events.

    The only reason scientists say they can't attribute individual events to climate change is because the sample size is too small. There aren't enough extreme events to allow us to come to firm conclusions, and the only way this can be solved is to wait for more storms to happen and therefore more data to analyse. Needless to say, this makes attribution via observations useless if the aim is to predict how our climate will behave under future atmospheric conditions caused by AGW. So Models are much more useful as they can plug in the conditions for any current or past weather event and then input counter factual conditions to test how those storms would have behaved if for example, oceans had been cooler, or the jet stream hadn't have been meandering so much due to polar warming etc.

    Climate scientists know an awful lot more about this than you do Dense, and they have the tools and understanding that you can only dream of. If you're going to quote their research you should at least have the courtesy to get their conclusions right


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Interesting study just released says that if it wasn't for global warming, Hurricane Florence would have produced only half as much rain and it would have been 80 kilometers smaller

    https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/you.stonybrook.edu/dist/4/945/files/2018/09/climate_change_Florence_0911201800Z_final-262u19i.pdf

    This is on the basis of physics models and not historical observations.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Interesting study just released says that if it wasn't for global warming, Hurricane Florence would have produced only half as much rain and it would have been 80 kilometers smaller

    https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/you.stonybrook.edu/dist/4/945/files/2018/09/climate_change_Florence_0911201800Z_final-262u19i.pdf

    This is on the basis of physics models and not historical observations.

    So alarmed alarmed earth scientists have now modelled the models to get them to forecast a human fingerprint.

    Back when CO2 levels were around the famous but undefined "pre industrial period" in 1900, what do you think caused the floods that came with Hurricane Hazel?


    hazel.jpg


    Model T Fords causing the US east cost to be sinking?


    Scientists:
    Parts of North Carolina, New Jersey and South Carolina have been sinking at rates of 8 to 10 inches per century.
    https://www.wpri.com/news/local-news/scientists-rhode-island-is-sinking-and-sea-levels-continue-to-rise_20180327075737224/1082490842



    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sinking-atlantic-coastline-meets-rapidly-rising-seas/

    Observations show a decrease in historic hurricane activity:
    We find that, after adjusting for such an estimated number of missing storms, there is a small nominally positive upward trend in tropical storm occurrence from 1878-2006. But statistical tests reveal that this trend is so small, relative to the variability in the series, that it is not significantly distinguishable from zero (Figure 2). Thus the historical tropical storm count record does not provide compelling evidence for a greenhouse warming induced long-term increase.
    Once an estimate for likely missing storms is accounted for the increase in tropical storms in the Atlantic since the late-19th Century is not distinguishable from no change.
    Atlantic tropical storms lasting more than 2 days have not increased in number.

    Storms lasting less than two days have increased sharply, but this is likely due to better observations. Figure adapted from Landsea, Vecchi, Bengtsson and Knutson (2009, J. Climate)
    When one focuses only on landfalling storms (yellow lines) the nominal trend has been for a decrease.
    https://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/historical-atlantic-hurricane-and-tropical-storm-records/
    We have investigated trends in CONUS hurricane activity since 1900 and found no significant trends in landfalling hurricanes, major hurricanes, or normalized damage consistent with what has been found in previous studies.
    https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/10.1175/BAMS-D-17-0184.1


    Increased financial loss is being fuelled by increasing development in historic hurricane risk paths, not AGW.


    Analyses show that, although economic losses from weather-related hazards have increased, anthropogenic climate change so far did not have a significant impact on losses from natural disasters.


    The observed loss increase is caused primarily by increasing exposure and value of capital at risk.
    https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/2010BAMS3092.1


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Akrasia wrote: »
    You are so dishonest.

    The only reason scientists say they can't attribute individual events to climate change is because the sample size is too small.


    You are now caught up in classic climate change circular reasoning by claiming that the number of extreme weather events caused by global warming is so small that the earth scientists are saying they are having trouble attributing them to global warming.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    dense wrote: »
    You are now caught up in classic climate change circular reasoning by claiming that the number of extreme weather events caused by global warming is so small that the earth scientists are saying they are having trouble attributing them to global warming.

    By definition extreme events are rare, if they weren't they would be normal weather.

    Climate change is causing what used to be considered extreme, to now be normal weather. Its shifting the bell curve


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Akrasia wrote: »
    By definition extreme events are rare, if they weren't they would be normal weather.

    Climate change is causing what used to be considered extreme, to now be normal weather.


    Reverting to subjective descriptions of normal weather is another element of circular reasoning for those trying to convince themselves and others that extreme events are becoming more frequent.




    Abstract

    It is widely promulgated and believed that human-caused global warming comes with increases in both the intensity and frequency of extreme weather events.



    A survey of official weather sites and the scientific literature provides strong evidence that the first half of the 20th century had more extreme weather than the second half, when anthropogenic global warming is claimed to have been mainly responsible for observed climate change.




    https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/trends-in-extreme-weather-events-since-1900--an-enduring-conundrum-for-wise-policy-advice-2167-0587-1000155.php?aid=69558


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Anyone else carrying the personal burden of experiencing catastrophic climate change to a greater extent than the scientific community may take comfort in the IPCC's AR5 which aside from identifying some extra heat found severe difficulty identifying anything else resulting from global warming.

    In summary …. it is likely that since 1951 there have been statistically significant increases in the number of heavy precipitation events (e.g., above the 95th percentile) in more regions than there have been statistically significant decreases, but there are strong regional and subregional variations in the trends.

    In summary, there continues to be a lack of evidence and thus low confidence regarding the sign of trend in the magnitude and/or frequency of floods on a global scale.

    In summary, the current assessment concludes that there is not enough evidence at present to suggest more than low confidence in a global-scale observed trend in drought or dryness (lack of rainfall) since the middle of the 20th century, due to lack of direct observations, geographical inconsistencies in the trends, and dependencies of inferred trends on the index choice.

    Current datasets indicate no significant observed trends in global tropical cyclone frequency over the past century and it remains uncertain whether any reported long-term increases in tropical cyclone frequency are robust, after accounting for past changes in observing capabilities. No robust trends in annual numbers of tropical storms, hurricanes and major hurricanes counts have been identified over the past 100 years in the North Atlantic basin.

    In summary, confidence in large scale changes in the intensity of extreme extratropical cyclones since 1900 is low. There is also low confidence for a clear trend in storminess proxies over the last century due to inconsistencies between studies or lack of long-term data in some parts of the world (particularly in the SH). Likewise, confidence in trends in extreme winds is low, due to quality and consistency issues with analysed data.
    http://euanmearns.com/climate-scientists-confirm-no-global-increase-in-extreme-weather-events/


    http://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/mindex.shtml


    Hopefully it might go some way to assuage the hurt being caused to some gullible people by unfounded allegations from eco activists who are alleging that Ireland's emissions are causing disproprtionate catastrophic climate change.



    #stopclimatechaos


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,397 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    dense wrote: »
    Like when you fell off the wall and everyone laughed at you?
    I dunno what that's supposed to mean but maybe someone out there thinks it's clever.

    dense wrote: »
    In other words, link please, because I don't recall using any of those figures nor do I recall you piping up at the time to say my calculations were incorrect.


    If there is an error in my calculations concerning how much energy fossil fuels supply here and how much renewables do, link to it and then correct it.

    Actually I'll link to it to save you the trouble and you can check that it's ok.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=107955400&postcount=490

    Heres the online conversion tool to convert 14m tons of oil equivalence to Twh


    http://www.conversion-website.com/energy/ton-of-oil-equivalent-to-terawatt-hour.html


    Akrasia's new standard unit of 1 Hiroshima bomb isn't included there however, so I'm a little sceptical of you being able to verify their claims about Ireland setting off the equivalent of 2m of them since 1998 and their impact, if any, in degrees of global warming.


    Sure. Look below. I'm sure it's easy to get lost in that tangled mess you leave behind. Nice try on attempting to shift the topic again though. It's probably why you can't remember all the things you said (and can't remember how to use the search function to look for it).


    dense wrote: »
    Converting 20twh to gwh gives approximately 20,000gwh according to my calculations, which is just 0.6% of the 3.10m gwh of electricity generated per year.


    https://www.convertunits.com/from/TWh/to/GWh



    Point being, they're SI units so there's no "calculation" involved. The prefix is only telling you the multiple of the original unit (10 to the power of x). Did you know 10 is approximately ten 1's? Will you give me a €100 note for approximately 10 x €10 notes (give or take a few €10)?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    xckjoo wrote: »

    Point being, they're SI units so there's no "calculation" involved. The prefix is only telling you the multiple of the original unit (10 to the power of x). Did you know 10 is approximately ten 1's? Will you give me a €100 note for approximately 10 x €10 notes (give or take a few €10)?

    Is that it? A way to show you couldn't find a fault in what I've calculated:


    That renewable energy currently supplies just 8Twh of the 163Twh (14Mtoe) of energy consumed annually here.



    You don't seem to appreciate that demands for a rapid transition off fossil fuels leave an annual 155Twh energy supply gap.


    That's 95% of the energy this country uses in a year.


    Where's it going to reliably come from and at what cost?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,397 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    dense wrote: »
    Is that it? A way to show you couldn't find a fault in what I've calculated:


    That renewable energy currently supplies just 8Twh of the 163Twh (14Mtoe) of energy consumed annually here.



    You don't seem to appreciate that

    demands for a rapid transition off fossil fuels leave an annual 155Twh energy supply gap.


    That's 95% of the energy this country uses in a year.


    Where's it going to reliably come from and at what cost?


    I appreciate plenty. Don't worry about that :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    The alleged catastrophic sea level rise is another non issue that the lefties try to exploit in order to wreak energy havoc.


    Scientists say satellite imagery shows land area "all over the world" is increasing, coinciding with man made global warming.




    Coastal areas were also analysed, and to the scientists surprise, coastlines had gained more land - 33,700 sq km (13,000 sq miles) - than they had been lost to water (20,100 sq km or 7,800 sq miles).

    "We expected that the coast would start to retreat due to sea level rise, but the most surprising thing is that the coasts are growing all over the world," said Dr Baart.

    "We're (sic) were able to create more land than sea level rise was taking."
    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37187100


    In other news from the settled science circus, it is confirmed that windmills can also cause climate change.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-36131442


    Climate science, the gift that keeps on giving.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,397 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    dense wrote: »
    The alleged catastrophic sea level rise is another non issue that the lefties try to exploit in order to wreak energy havoc.


    Scientists say satellite imagery shows land area "all over the world" is increasing, coinciding with man made global warming.






    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37187100


    In other news from the settled science circus, it is confirmed that windmills can also cause climate change.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-36131442


    Climate science, the gift that keeps on giving.


    So you concede that mans actions have an impact on the environment???? Are you just arguing the scale of the issue?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    xckjoo wrote: »
    So you concede that mans actions have an impact on the environment???? Are you just arguing the scale of the issue?


    The scale is quite clear.

    Irish people are responsible for low crop yields in Honduras and a shortage of rain in Malawi.
    According to the report, one Irish person emits 74 times more carbon dioxide per year than one Ethiopian or Malawian. In Honduras crop yields will fall by at least 10 percent by 2020 and rainfall in Malawi could decrease by up to 25 percent by the end of the century.
    https://www.trocaire.org/news/irelands-emissions-are-charts

    How you can all say your carbon footprint is too small to bother about is pretty amazing, it's 74 times more than one Ethiopian.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    ‘It is FAR MORE serious than we thought’ Scientists warn tsunamis could hit Britain.
    Because, as Tom Jones says, "Its not unusual".

    In what must be a major disappointment to the climate fiction alarmists, the UK media reports on new research which suggests that the British Isles were being hit with extreme weather in the form of tsunamis in the pre industrial period when CO2 levels were much lower than today.
    New research has found that devastating tsunamis hit the British Isles much more often than previously thought.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-45541721?__twitter_impression=true
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1018801/tsunami-warning-uk-tsunamis-news-landslide-british-geological-survey


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    dense wrote: »
    Reverting to subjective descriptions of normal weather is another element of circular reasoning for those trying to convince themselves and others that extreme events are becoming more frequent.








    https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/trends-in-extreme-weather-events-since-1900--an-enduring-conundrum-for-wise-policy-advice-2167-0587-1000155.php?aid=69558
    Well that's the worst paper I've ever seen.

    I don't know if it was peer reviewed, it couldn't have been, the references aren't even correct. His 'figures' and graphs are unsourced and clearly just collected from climate change denial blogs along with almost all of his other information. These same blogs that have been found manipulating and falsifying graphs on multiple occasions.

    His references section is a cluster**** of climate denial bogs 'think tanks' like the 'global warming policy foundation'

    This paper is proof of the programming concept garbage in, garbage out.

    MJ Kelly might know a lot about quantum engineering. But he hasn't got a clue about climate science or how to tell good data from propaganda in a politically charged arena full of misinformation


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    dense wrote: »
    The scale is quite clear.

    Irish people are responsible for low crop yields in Honduras and a shortage of rain in Malawi.


    https://www.trocaire.org/news/irelands-emissions-are-charts

    How you can all say your carbon footprint is too small to bother about is pretty amazing, it's 74 times more than one Ethiopian.
    And according to you, one persons carbon footprint matters, but 4.5million people's carbon footprint is insignificant.

    Individual action is not the solution to a global ecological problem. It requires global political action.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    dense wrote: »
    ‘It is FAR MORE serious than we thought’ Scientists warn tsunamis could hit Britain.
    Because, as Tom Jones says, "Its not unusual".

    In what must be a major disappointment to the climate fiction alarmists, the UK media reports on new research which suggests that the British Isles were being hit with extreme weather in the form of tsunamis in the pre industrial period when CO2 levels were much lower than today.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-45541721?__twitter_impression=true
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1018801/tsunami-warning-uk-tsunamis-news-landslide-british-geological-survey

    Tsunamis aren't weather dense. They're caused by earthquakes, volcanos or landslides, or even asteroid impacts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Tsunamis aren't weather dense. They're caused by earthquakes, volcanos or landslides, or even asteroid impacts.


    You're missing a trick here, you need to exploit any catastrophe involving water, flood and destruction and link it to climate change.

    Be a little inventive, like the climatologists.

    EG: The Japanese tsunami responsible for calving ice:
    Kelly Brunt, a cryosphere specialist at Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md., and colleagues were able to link the calving of icebergs from the Sulzberger Ice Shelf in Antarctica following the Tohoku Tsunami, which originated with an earthquake off the coast of Japan in March 2011.
    https://climate.nasa.gov/news/565/japans-tsunami-created-icebergs-in-antarctica/


    Calving ice responsible for tsunamis (just leave out the last bit and Joe Public will buy it):
    Depending on the mass of ice lost and the particular configuration of the water and the fjord into which it surges, these events can also create destructive tsunamis, albeit of a relatively small scale (compared with how big open ocean tsunamis can get).
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/06/23/this-melting-greenland-glacier-is-now-producing-terrifying-tsunamis/?utm_term=.6b114976c6a5


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Akrasia wrote: »
    MJ Kelly might know a lot about quantum engineering. But he hasn't got a clue about climate science or how to tell good data from propaganda in a politically charged arena full of misinformation


    Rajendra K. Pachaur was a railway engineer who didn't have a clue about climate science and it didn't stop him being chairman of the UNIPCC and spreading it's political propaganda, did it?


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajendra_K._Pachauri


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Well that's the worst paper I've ever seen.

    I don't know if it was peer reviewed, it couldn't have been, the references aren't even correct. His 'figures' and graphs are unsourced and clearly just collected from climate change denial blogs along with almost all of his other information. These same blogs that have been found manipulating and falsifying graphs on multiple occasions.

    His references section is a cluster**** of climate denial bogs 'think tanks' like the 'global warming policy foundation'

    This paper is proof of the programming concept garbage in, garbage out.


    That's your typical "fire everything at it reaction" when you dislike a paper's conclusions.

    Let's look at what the paper's publisher says about its peer review process.


    https://www.omicsonline.org/peer-review-process.php


    It's looks very comprehensive:

    Every article submitted to the journal is subjected to strict plagiarism check through our double check process involving software and manual checking. Once article passes through this step, articles are subjected to editorial review for scope, relevance and other standard requirements.

    Peer review is the major quality maintenance measure for any academic journal. In this process, experts in the relevant fields analyze the scholarly work from every perspective, including its writing, the accuracy of its technical content, its documentation, and its impact on and significance to the discipline.

    Reviewers play a pivotal role in scholarly publishing, and their valuable opinions certify the quality of the article under consideration. Peer review helps to ratify research, establishing a standard for evaluation within research communities.

    OMICS journals employ the peer review process in order to maintain academic standards and insure the validity of individual works submitted for publication. In addition, OMICS follows a single-blinded peer review process, to ensure impartial editorial decision-making.

    Depending on reviewer commentary and recommendations, manuscripts may be sent back to authors for revision. After the assistant editor receives the revised manuscript, it is assigned to the reviewer(s) once again, for approval of changes. But the final decision to publish is made by the Editor-in-Chief.

    OMICS is following different review strategies for each and every individual journal as per their editorial board guidelines. In general following stages of review process table explains the overall outline, however the respective editor can change the general review policy as per their editorial board members interest as and when required. Majorly, OMICS International staff will do only hosting, PDF formatting and design, communicating review process and there is no control on content and editorial practice of journals as its vary from journal to journal and editor to editor. Most of the OMICS journals content is publishing under creative commons attribution licence, and OMICS is not responsible for content of individual authors and their articles. All the journals articles published under the discretion of respective contributors.

    Maybe the whole climate science publishing and research game is a cosy self sustaining cluster####??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    dense wrote: »
    You're missing a trick here, you need to exploit any catastrophe involving water, flood and destruction and link it to climate change.

    Be a little inventive, like the climatologists.

    EG: The Japanese tsunami responsible for calving ice:

    https://climate.nasa.gov/news/565/japans-tsunami-created-icebergs-in-antarctica/


    Calving ice responsible for tsunamis (just leave out the last bit and Joe Public will buy it):


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/06/23/this-melting-greenland-glacier-is-now-producing-terrifying-tsunamis/?utm_term=.6b114976c6a5

    You've lost it dense. Now you're arguing against imagined lies that you've thought up all by yourself.

    Climate scientists are not attributing tsunamis to climate change, and if a tsunami caused the breakup of an ice sheet, then thats what happened in that instance. It's not hard dense. Most people try to find out the truth of what is happening. You seem to be looking for an angle all the time, for how you can get the facts to fit your own world view.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    dense wrote: »
    Rajendra K. Pachaur was a railway engineer who didn't have a clue about climate science and it didn't stop him being chairman of the UNIPCC and spreading it's political propaganda, did it?


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajendra_K._Pachauri

    He's an administrator not a climate scientist. He's not doing any research, he's just overseeing the organisation of this extremely complex publication.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Akrasia wrote: »
    He's not doing any research, he's just overseeing the organisation of this extremely complex publication.


    He's not overseeing anything because he resigned in 2015.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-31601122


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Who gives a sh1t. You brought him up as a standard dense distraction tactic when I pointed out that the paper you linked to was written by someone with absolutely no climate science training and written in a way using sources of such awful quality that they would get a university undergraduate student a failing grade.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Who gives a sh1t. You brought him up as a standard dense distraction tactic when I pointed out that the paper you linked to was written by someone with absolutely no climate science training and written in a way using sources of such awful quality that they would get a university undergraduate student a failing grade.


    Funny how you resort to trying to pick at a peer reviewed author's credentials when their peer reviewed research doesn't coincide with your urgent, lefty demands for a "global solution".



    Your dismissal of a peer reviewed author coincides with the opinion of the editor of The Lancet who has suggested that as much as half of the published scientific "literature" may simply be "untrue".

    The case against science is straightforward: much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness.
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(15)60696-1/fulltext



    As much as 97% of the climate science literature is false if that's the case I'd guess.



    P.S. The head of the UNIPCC had no "climate science training" either.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    dense wrote: »
    Funny how you resort to trying to pick at a peer reviewed author's credentials when their peer reviewed research doesn't coincide with your urgent, lefty demands for a "global solution".



    Your dismissal of a peer reviewed author coincides with the opinion of the editor of The Lancet who has suggested that as much as half of the published scientific "literature" may simply be "untrue".



    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(15)60696-1/fulltext



    As much as 97% of the climate science literature is false if that's the case I'd guess.



    P.S. The head of the UNIPCC had no "climate science training" either.

    Literally the definition of science denialism right there. Blogs are trustworthy. Scientific journals can't be trusted unless they're open access online journals that publish bloggers propaganda as fact.

    And you still don't know the difference between a researcher and an administrator.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,190 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    dense wrote: »
    Funny how you resort

    Funny how you have to resort to using every trick and tactic possible to continually push your subjective dogmatic view despite it being countered by simple logic, reason and evidence, doesn't that raise personal alarm bells? if not, that's even more worrying

    If this was a proper debate with an arbiter your argument would have long been struck off as faulty, circular and pedantic. But there isn't, so here we are. You vs the world in a game of stamina, who can get the last word in


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Funny how you have to resort to using every trick and tactic possible to continually push your subjective dogmatic view despite it being countered by simple logic, reason and evidence, doesn't that raise personal alarm bells? if not, that's even more worrying

    If this was a proper debate with an arbiter your argument would have long been struck off as faulty, circular and pedantic. But there isn't, so here we are. You vs the world in a game of stamina, who can get the last word in

    Are you for real?

    You have no opinion on Akrasia pretending that the UNIPCC Chairman with a background in railways who resigned in 2015 is still busily working away diligently "overseeing the organisation of this extremely complex publication"?

    No, instead your whinging because the facts about UN climate "science" don't tally with what you've been fed over the years and you can't come to terms with it and react by getting upset with the person who is enlightening you.

    I don't know if you read books Dohnjoe, but do you fire them across the room if the endings aren't to your liking?

    Because that's what your doing now.
    Akrasia wrote: »
    Who gives a sh1t.

    Not Dohnjoe, that's for sure. Couldn't care less about facts.

    -Likes you to mislead them with your UN propoganda.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Akrasia wrote: »

    Individual action is not the solution to a global ecological problem. It requires global political action.

    What a load of cobblers, you can't even explain where we're going to reliably get 95% of our local energy needs from and you're incessantly waffling about wanting to be globally remotely governed by lefty rabble rousers like Paul Murphy and Ruth Coppinger all with the hands out looking for the free stuff or Professor Sweeney's special star, the well known climate rider, hypocrite and socialist dictator, Evo Morales.

    Any chance you'd tell us who told you Ireland's emissions since 1998 were the equivalent of 2m Hiroshima bombs?

    A concerned mate at the pub or did you hear it at a Friends of the Earth hoedown?


    Or you just made it up, like the suspected half of the "science" found in todays junk science peer reviewed journals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭dubstepper


    dense wrote: »
    No, instead your whinging because the facts about UN climate "science" don't tally with what you've been fed over the years and you can't come to terms with it and react by getting upset with the person who is enlightening you.

    To anyone who reads this thread you have nearly described yourself. Ranting away trying to legitimize conspiracy theories you are reading on various blogs.
    dense wrote: »
    What a load of cobblers, you can't even explain where we're going to reliably get 95% of our local energy needs from and you're incessantly waffling about wanting to be globally remotely governed by lefty rabble rousers like Paul Murphy and Ruth Coppinger all with the hands out looking for the free stuff or Professor Sweeney's special star, the well known climate rider, hypocrite and socialist dictator, Evo Morales.
    .

    This paragraph is largely incoherent but the point about where to source our energy, while interesting, is nothing to do with whether climate change is man made. it is entirely consistent to agree with anthropogenic climate change, without needing to offer a solution. It is beyond most people to offer solutions. We need scientists and engineers to do that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    A smell of the the worker being urged to engage in an uprising against the establishment to finally implement the socialists' plans comes off of this explanation of how the planet is to be saved.

    Think of the occupy thing here, its from the same stable that urges the takeover of things and always wants stuff for nothing.

    I say that because the utopian "economic transformation" global takeover being promoted by the socialists and Christiana Figueres certainly doesnt look like its going to happen voluntarily, but by force:
    This means nationalising the main industries that dominate the economy.

    This will need to be done throughout the world, encompassing the 147 multinational corporations that recent research has shown dominate the globe.

    The task is urgent. It must involve the political re-armament of the workers’ movement in Britain and internationally with a socialist programme.

    As a first step, this will require the creation of new mass workers’ parties to replace the discredited former workers’ organisations. These parties, such as the Labour Party in Britain, have totally failed over decades to implement programmes to reverse the degradation of the planet.
    http://www.communistpartyofireland.ie/sv2016-05/08-climate.html

    Of course if the means justify the ends, the alarmists can be counted on to endorse violence against those rejecting their faked climate science.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,657 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    IFlFUywgRGVuc2UsIGNsaW1hdGUgY2hhbmdlIAppcyBhIHNvY2lhbGlzdCBjb25zcGlyYWN5


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    dubstepper wrote: »
    This paragraph is largely incoherent but the point about where to source our energy, while interesting, is nothing to do with whether climate change is man made. it is entirely consistent to agree with anthropogenic climate change, without needing to offer a solution. It is beyond most people to offer solutions. We need scientists and engineers to do that.

    No, it is utterly stupid and dangerous to be calling for an economy to rapidly transition off of fossil fuels without any consideration to solving what is going to reliably replace the 95% of national energy that fossil fuels provide.


    It is infantile to say "I dont know, but lets do it anyway".


    Maybe a rapid mass destruction of civilisation is worth it of course, in order to save the planet:
    Instead, says Hillman, the world’s population must globally move to zero emissions across agriculture, air travel, shipping, heating homes – every aspect of our economy – and reduce our human population too.

    Can it be done without a collapse of civilisation?

    “I don’t think so,” says Hillman. “Can you see everyone in a democracy volunteering to give up flying? Can you see the majority of the population becoming vegan? Can you see the majority agreeing to restrict the size of their families?”


    I think the answer is no, don't you?
    Even the alarmists couldn't be bothered monitoring their own carbon footprints here.



    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/apr/26/were-doomed-mayer-hillman-on-the-climate-reality-no-one-else-will-dare-mention


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    dense wrote: »
    No, it is utterly stupid and dangerous to be calling for an economy to rapidly transition off of fossil fuels without any consideration to solving what is going to reliably replace the 95% of national energy that fossil fuels provide.


    It is infantile to say "I dont know, but lets do it anyway".


    Maybe a rapid mass destruction of civilisation is worth it of course, in order to save the planet:




    I think the answer is no, don't you?
    Even the alarmists couldn't be bothered monitoring their own carbon footprints here.



    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/apr/26/were-doomed-mayer-hillman-on-the-climate-reality-no-one-else-will-dare-mention

    the actual figure is that Ireland produces 10% of it's total energy from renewable sources as of 2017, and 30% of our electricity from renewable sources
    Provisional data from the SEAI indicates that 30.1% of electricity, 6.9% of heat and 7.1% of transport energy requirements were met from renewable sources at end 2017. Overall, SEAI analysis shows that 10.6% of Ireland’s energy requirements in 2017 were met from renewable sources, with an expectation that Ireland will achieve at least 80% of its 16% renewable energy target by 2020.
    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2018-05-31/31/

    The solution to transitioning from fossil fuels, is to increase investment and for the government to provide both positive and negative incentives to funnel market forces towards renewable energy and away from fossil fuels.

    Mature technology exists to have energy storage that can provide better continuity of supply. When we have extra generation capacity, that energy is stored in the form of compressed gas, or gravity potential energy, or battery technology with the ability to release this energy when demand is higher or production is lower.

    Add to this an interconnected EU power grid and we can have a secure reliable network with plenty of redundancy


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    Akrasia wrote: »
    the actual figure is that Ireland produces 10% of it's total energy from renewable sources as of 2017, and 30% of our electricity from renewable sources

    I presume you realise that is not an actual figure, it is a politician giving a figure he hopes no one will check and which has not yet been published by the SEAI.

    To get you back to reality, the CSO 2018 Energy Report paints a different story.

    Renewable energy accounted for 3% of Ireland’s total final energy consumption in 2015.
    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-eii/eii18/energy/



    Maybe the greenies really trust their much maligned climate Minister not to lean towards rounding up figures, and maybe there really has been a 300% increase in the role that renewable energy plays in less than 3 years.

    Sorry to disappoint, this time from the SEAI:
    Renewable energy in Ireland reached the highest level ever with a new peak in 2016 of 4,246 ktoe, up from the
    previous peak in 1995 at 4,105 ktoe.
    A peak of 4246ktoe, from 4105 in 1995.

    From the most recent SEAI report.
    Total renewable energy increased slightly by 0.3% during 2016 to 1,158 ktoe out of their total of 13250ktoe.

    Someone seems to be telling lies, the CSO or SEAI?

    THE SEAI does admit that wind energy is not all its cracked up to be.


    Hydro and wind decreased by 15.6% and
    6.5% respectively as there was lower rainfall and less wind blowing in 2016 compared to 2015
    In 2016, lower hydro and wind resources and increased electricity
    exports saw electricity generated from gas increase by 23%.
    Not sure if it mentioned that Ireland has some of the highest electricity prices in Europe, but I doubt it.


    There's lots of stuff in there too about how much reliance we have on biomass as energy but of course that is now being acknowledged as being more detrimental than coal.

    The investigations were carried out in a laboratory chamber furnace at five different temperatures (from 700 to 1100 °C) and at three different air flow rates providing an excess of oxygen. In many cases the determined emission indicators for biomass combustion were higher than for hard coal.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1743967115304025

    Akrasia wrote: »
    The solution to transitioning from fossil fuels, is to increase investment and for the government to provide both positive and negative incentives to funnel market forces towards renewable energy and away from fossil fuels.

    Mature technology exists to have energy storage that can provide better continuity of supply. When we have extra generation capacity, that energy is stored in the form of compressed gas, or gravity potential energy, or battery technology with the ability to release this energy when demand is higher or production is lower.

    Add to this an interconnected EU power grid and we can have a secure reliable network with plenty of redundancy

    Sounds great. So good in fact that most of it isn't in use here and is being rejected around the world.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭dense


    In climate research and modelling, we should recognise that we are dealing with a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore that the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible.


    No best estimate for equilibrium climate sensitivity can now be given because of a lack of agreement on values across assessed lines of evidence and studies.

    Reverse the decline of observational networks in many parts of the world. Unless networks are significantly improved, it may be difficult or impossible to detect climate change over large parts of the globe.
    -From the ever-sceptical UNIPCC, wisely cautioning it's more highly strung alarmist readers to cool the jets.

    The alarmist position is that the science is settled, that we do know all there is to know about equilibrium climate sensitivity and that not only can we predict, but also control future climates and climate change, simply by adjusting our CO2 emissions.


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