Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Quin_Dub · 30-07-2020 7:59pm

SimonTemplar wrote: »

So a governor can withhold the EC voters in a federal election? Jesus, they really need an independent electoral commission to oversee elections.

Yes - Each State votes independently in effect ,so the Governor (or the State Secretary possibly) signs off on the result which then triggers the voters to go forward to the Electoral college.

If the result isn't signed off , then that State does not send forward any EC voters.

If enough of them are withheld to mean that the 270 threshold can't be reached by any candidate then the scenario I described above occurs.

If Biden wins in a blowout or wins those "GOP Friendly Governor" states by a sufficient margin so that they cannot legitimately claim the result might be in question then it can't happen , but if it's a close one and Biden wins Florida say by a small margin (say less than 50k votes) who knows what crap Trump and his cronies might try.

Quin_Dub · 30-07-2020 8:01pm

aloyisious wrote: »

Wouldn't the above final vote rely on the GOP having a majority to re-elect Trump, after the Nov election results affecting both houses and states?

It would still be the current House voting - The new Senate and Congress won't sit until after Jan 20th.

TomOnBoard · 30-07-2020 8:06pm

This "delay the election" BS is about deflection and scene setting for an election wipe out.

He's just trying to keep control of the news cycle to deflect from scores of other news worthy things that reflect appallingly on him. ..

Look! Squirrel! !

Carfacemandog · 30-07-2020 8:34pm

SimonTemplar wrote: »

So a governor can withhold the EC voters in a federal election? Jesus, they really need an independent electoral commission to oversee elections.

That's been my concern for a year or so, that I have voiced here a few times. Keep an eye on the likes of Kemp (Georgia) or De Santis (Florida), because it wouldn't at all surprise me to see them do something like this if requested, and then Barr trying to use that as an excuse to sidestep the whole order of succession come January 21st thing. We have seen on multiple occasions that Barr has zero issue with point blank lying about whatever he needs to to further trunks agenda.

If it comes to that, expect the armed militias to be out in force almost immediately and a power grab attempt.

Hopefully that doesn't happen, but I would not be even remotely surprised if it did at this point.

Overheal · 30-07-2020 9:13pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

It would still be the current House voting - The new Senate and Congress won't sit until after Jan 20th.

The 116th Congress ends on January 3, 2021, and the 117th Congress begins at that time.

If Trump tried to have the Governors steal the election in the manner described above, I think that would be a civil war scenario. I doubt it will come to that.

dogbert27 · 30-07-2020 9:19pm

The Republican partys head in the sand approach to Trump is truly embarrassing.

Trump does not represent the Republican party, he only represents himself yet the Republicans entertain this lunacy to remain in power.

Overheal · 30-07-2020 9:21pm

Honestly I think most Republicans will be relieved if he loses. For all political reasons, they can't publicly say so and vulnerable politicians - particularly those who are pinned to his mast, and have been because their political career rides on it (like Sen. Graham, Jim Jordan, etc) - and I think they will be the loudest chest beaters when they loses, but after the dog has been wagged they will quiet down.

Mitch is still up +20 points in his Kentucky race. He is the real cancer.

Itssoeasy · 30-07-2020 9:28pm

SimonTemplar wrote: »

Let's say Trump causes a sh*tstorm in November and refuses to accept a loss, and let's assume he goes down a long protracted legal route (assuming the courts will entertain it).

If the issue isn't resolved by the end of his term in January (and for some reason Biden isn't inaugurated), my understanding is that Pelosi automatically becomes president in a care taker capacity.

Is that correct? If so, if Trump loses, his term of office will end in January and there is nothing he can do to prevent that.

well the Florida and Supreme Court in 2000 ruled very quickly on the bush vs gore election issue so I see them doing the same IF something similair happens again.

The pelosi(or speaker of the house) option only happens if no election happens, not if won happens and one person throws their toys out of the pram. If joe Biden wins and his win is certified by the electoral college then at 12:00pm on January 20th, 2021 he will be president.

Muahahaha · 30-07-2020 9:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

2008 - 55-44
2012 - 57-41
2016 - 52-43

I was a bit surprised to see that Hillary actually improved on Obama's '12 result. I think it's unlikely to flip but if the Republicans slip below 50% it'll be a big deal IMO. The demographic changes mean the medium-term outlook is poor for the Republicans too.

yeah I think we would all be shocked if Texas fell Democrat. But at 45-44 to Biden in that poll it is looking tighter than ever before.

Anyway fair play to RTEs Brian o'Donovan who opened up his report from Washington on the news just there by literally saying that todays events were a classic example of Donald Trumps deflection tactics. He said that Trumps tweet on delaying the election was posted literally a few minutes after the report showing the economy had tanked by 32% got released.

TV3 on the other hand fell for the ruse hook line and sinker- they had a report only on Trump tweeting about delaying the election and then followed that up with a fluff piece about NASA going to Mars, they made no mention of the economic numbers whatsoever.

I dont have Fox news but I presume now they will spend the evening talking about delaying the election and how it is going to be a rigged election because of mail in voting. Trump sets it up for them to give them a talking point in order to avoid the economcic news and then they duly oblige. Its always been said that one of the key tools of media propaganda is not about what gets talked about, its about what doesnt get talked about.

LessOutragePlz · 30-07-2020 9:37pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Do you think America is in a better place now than it was before Trump was elected?

No but I don't think that it's gone down the drain, sure there are more negatives than positives but there are still some positive aspects such as the fact that the number of people in employment has risen over the last 4 years up until the pandemic hit America.

Overheal · 30-07-2020 9:38pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

yeah I think we would all be shocked if Texas fell Democrat. But at 45-44 to Biden in that poll it is looking tighter than ever before.

Anyway fair play to RTEs Brian o'Donovan who opened up his report from Washington on the news just there by literally saying that todays events were a classic example of Donald Trumps deflection tactics. He said that Trumps tweet on delaying the election was posted literally a few minutes after the report showing the economy had tanked by 32% got released.

TV3 on the other hand fell for the ruse hook line and sinker- they had a report only on Trump tweeting about delaying the election and then followed that up with a fluff piece about NASA going to Mars, they made no mention of the economic numbers whatsoever.

I dont have Fox news but I presume now they will spend the evening talking about delaying the election and how it is going to be a rigged election because of mail in voting. Trump sets it up for them to give them a talking point in order to avoid the economcic news and then they duly oblige. Its always been said that one of the key tools of media propaganda is not about what gets talked about, its about what doesnt get talked about.

He knew well what he was doing:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1288932940337090561?s=20

Overheal · 30-07-2020 9:43pm

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

No but I don't think that it's gone down the drain, sure there are more negatives than positives but there are still some positive aspects such as the fact that the number of people in employment has risen over the last 4 years up until the pandemic hit America.

Sure, he didn't cock it up, but he made no actual changes trend:

https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-unemployment-rate.htm

We haven't committed to any new significant conflicts or wars so that's good, but puzzlingly we have only seen increases in the defense budget... you'd expect fiscally speaking we have the ability to "rebuild our military" (:rolleyes:) using an austere budget if we are actually involved in less conflict.

Timberrrrrrrr · 30-07-2020 9:44pm

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

No but I don't think that it's gone down the drain, sure there are more negatives than positives but there are still some positive aspects such as the fact that the number of people in employment has risen over the last 4 years up until the pandemic hit America.

A hell of a lot more negatives, and it will only get worse if the American people don't wake up and vote the fake tanned idiot out. His losses need to be massive, there cannot be even a shred of doubt because I guarantee he is going to use every dirty trick he can think of to try get the result nullified when he loses.

Roanmore · 30-07-2020 9:47pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

yeah I think we would all be shocked if Texas fell Democrat. But at 45-44 to Biden in that poll it is looking tighter than ever before.

TV3 on the other hand fell for the ruse hook line and sinker- they had a report only on Trump tweeting about delaying the election and then followed that up with a fluff piece about NASA going to Mars, they made no mention of the economic numbers whatsoever.

.

TV3 are a joke. They led one of their stories today saying fears have been expressed of a second wave of COVID-19 sweeping through Europe.
Guess who expressed the fears, Matt Hancock.
Torres in uk following the Trump deflection tactic and TV3 again fell for it.

briany · 30-07-2020 10:11pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

A hell of a lot more negatives, and it will only get worse if the American people don't wake up and vote the fake tanned idiot out. His losses need to be massive, there cannot be even a shred of doubt because I guarantee he is going to use every dirty trick he can think of to try get the result nullified when he loses.

I remember Don Jr saying in 2016 that his dad needed the presidency like he needed a hole in the head. The son pushed this idea a fair bit - that his dad had it all, but was willing to forego all of that out of an overwhelming sense of duty to his country.

Not that this didn't stink of bs at the time, but it is now all the more obvious that losing the presidency would be the greatest defeat of Trump's life rather than a welcome relief allowing him to return to private business. And, because it would be an intolerable blow to his ego, I agree - he'll do anything to avoid it.

But his ego is also so huge that if his tricks didn't work, he would never retire quietly. He's still got a huge platform to majorly agitate from the wings, even if he's tweeting out of Moscow or anywhere else with no extradition treaty.

listermint · 30-07-2020 10:52pm

briany wrote: »

I remember Don Jr saying in 2016 that his dad needed the presidency like he needed a hole in the head. The son pushed this idea a fair bit - that his dad had it all, but was willing to forego all of that out of an overwhelming sense of duty to his country.

Not that this didn't stink of bs at the time, but it is now all the more obvious that losing the presidency would be the greatest defeat of Trump's life rather than a welcome relief allowing him to return to private business. And, because it would be an intolerable blow to his ego, I agree - he'll do anything to avoid it.

But his ego is also so huge that if his tricks didn't work, he would never retire quietly. He's still got a huge platform to majorly agitate from the wings, even if he's tweeting out of Moscow or anywhere else with no extradition treaty.

It was an incredible gamble by trump to launch his profile in a media station thats all he wanted. But decided to push on ahead with the rest.

Gamble that won't pay off because it has evidently lifted the lid on origins of money and international business ventures and their funding. Something that could have been completely avoided.

It was the decision of an idiot who should have been skimming just under radar. Enough to keep the trump name in lights but less to stay out of scrutiny.

banie01 · 30-07-2020 10:57pm

Watching Trump's presser right now.
Is "Tremendous" the only superlative descriptive adjective the man knows?

And how dafuq can someone who must (or at least should!) be being briefed by experts, be across the data in therapeutics not be able to actually pronounce plasma?

Honestly remdisivir and all the other therapeutics I can understand, I get tongue tied with my generics myself.
But plasma?

Now he is back to blaming Chy-Na for the Virus and Democrats for blocking up the unemployment benefit extension and how the Dems are blocking the GoP efforts to give out free money, stop evictions and save the country...

I cannot wait for the questions

aloyisious · 30-07-2020 11:17pm

Trump has said If the Oregon Governor's plan to use State Police to keep the peace in Portland doesn't work, he'll send the National Guard into Portland to do the job.

Water John · 30-07-2020 11:19pm

Just bluster, to cover his backdown.

Guy:Incognito · 30-07-2020 11:20pm

Say he loses in November, either closely or gets hammered. What is the worst damage he could realistically do before January 20th should he lose the rag?

Overheal · 31-07-2020 1:00am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Say he loses in November, either closely or gets hammered. What is the worst damage he could realistically do before January 20th should he lose the rag?

Provoke civil unrest, nominate more unsuitable judges, nominate more justices if members step down or die. He can't actually stack more than 9 on the court, it's size is a matter of law signed by the Judiciary Act of 1869. Pardon all of his buddies, Resign, swear-in Pence, have Pence pardon him from crimes all but surely pending for him, any number of legally challenged executive orders that will take years, potentially, to dismantle in court, start an armed conflict, declare an insurrection in Portland etc (which falls under civil unrest but not just tweeting "LIBERATE MICHIGAN," etc), travel to a country without an extradition treaty, have Biden indicted for trumped up allegations of election fraud, declassify all the alien stuff, declassify a bunch of political dirty laundry, etc etc

I mean, there's a lot he could do, a lot he likely won't do, a lot he could try and fail to do, and who the hell knows really. First on the list is to completely rail against the peaceful transition of power though, and certainly do everything to contest the election, which could as mentioned earlier involved having Republican governors refuse to certify the election- but there are so many reasons a plurality of governors would never go for that, and the few who might like DeSantis of Florida, they're signing off on political suicide unless they can convince enough of the public there's merit in their action, and either way riots would all but surely ensue. Without both chambers of congress there's thankfully a lot less Republicans could do that they've done elsewhere, like Wisconsin where they basically cut some of the legs of the Governors authority under the law by passing 11th hour bills to do so in the lame duck session after a Democrat won that race in 2018, laws that the Republican dominated state supreme court upheld.

The likelihood that Republicans will wish to go along with anything incredibly drastic is slim, even in the minority they need to hope to hold or campaign for at least enough seats to filibuster, which requires 2/3rds of the Senate to pull off, and if its too outrageous they may not win back those seats in 2022, either. But again, the voters have short term memories at large. A lot of his cabinet members, like members past whom have already left the administration, have their own personal limits and hot buttons and red lines not to cross, they will only go along with so much. I think some people like Stephen Miller etc. have some very unsavory ambitions for instance, but a plurality of the cabinet will not help him burn the country down if it came to it, especially if it is catastrophic to the survival of the Republican Party.

Theorycrafting all the worst conceivable scenarios is just not beneficial for ones anxiety levels, these things never typically come to pass. People were afraid Bush/Cheney and Rove tbph would abuse the provisions of the Patriot Act and/or refuse to leave office during war time (which is a rubbish notion, we've had regular elections through war time at home and abroad).

SimonTemplar · 31-07-2020 1:45am

If Trump does loose, I fully expect him to continue travelling the country to hold his rallies to feed his ego. It seems to be the part of his presidency he enjoys the most and his base will continue to turn up.

Overheal · 31-07-2020 2:34am

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/postal-service-backlog-sparks-worries-that-ballot-delivery-could-be-delayed-in-november/2020/07/30/cb19f1f4-d1d0-11ea-8d32-1ebf4e9d8e0d_story.html#comments-wrapper

Trumps megadonor-come-Postmaster general instituted postal changes in early July that have been causing serious USPS backlogs. Coincidence? :mad:

It's a ~2300 word article but the gist is:

[...]

DeJoy, a North Carolina logistics executive who donated more than $2 million to GOP political committees in the past four years, approved changes that took effect July 13 that the agency said were aimed at cutting costs for the debt-laden mail service. They included prohibiting overtime pay, shutting down sorting machines early and requiring letter carriers to leave mail behind when necessary to avoid extra trips or late delivery on routes.

The new policies have resulted in at least a two-day delay in scattered parts of the country, even for express mail, according to multiple postal workers and union leaders. Letter carriers are manually sorting more mail, adding to the delivery time. Bins of mail ready for delivery are sitting in post offices because of scheduling and route changes. And without the ability to work overtime, workers say the logjam is worsening without an end in sight.

[...]

Trump has repeatedly gone after the Postal Service, calling it “a joke” and demanding it raise the rates it charges companies such as Amazon. (Amazon founder and chief executive Jeff Bezos owns The Washington Post.) In recent months, the administration has sought to leverage the agency’s financial woes, made worse by the pandemic and declines in profitable first- and second-class mail. On Wednesday, the Postal Service agreed to give the Treasury Department information about its private-sector contracts in exchange for a $10 billion emergency loan authorized by Congress in an early round of coronavirus relief spending.

Weeks after DeJoy took over, agency officials released an internal memo announcing a “pivot” for all employees. Traditionally, postal workers are trained not to leave letters behind and to make multiple delivery trips to ensure mail is delivered on time — which can incur extra costs in overtime hours, transportation and more. Officials laid out a shift away from this approach, saying that such practices cost the organization about $200 million in added expenses, according to the memo, which was obtained by The Post. Among the changes is a new, strict cutoff time in the morning for mail carriers to pick up items to deliver that day, several postal employees from three different states said. The machines that typically sort mail and prepare them for pickup by carriers are being shut down earlier in some areas to cut costs, requiring carriers to sort more mail by hand once they arrive in the morning.

That means any mail that is not ready by cutoff time waits at least another day. And if there is any error in hand-sorted mail, it needs to be rerouted to another carrier — which could lead to three to four extra days of waiting. As a result of these changes, guaranteed shipping dates are not being met, the employees said. “This is forced. These are things that don’t have to happen,” one worker from Pennsylvania said. Cash, who works in Lancaster, N.Y., said her post office is about two days behind its normal processing time.

“The cardinal rule is, ‘don’t delay the mail,’ and we’re in a 180-degree switch where we’re delaying mail every day,” she said, adding that if the system is not fixed before election season, “it’s going to be a catastrophe at the post office.” Partenheimer said the agency is not slowing down mail, but that it is “reemphasizing” plans that are meant to make the Postal Service more prompt and reliable. Stutts said he is confident the changes under DeJoy will make the agency more efficient and financially stable, and that concerns about delays are exaggerated and premature.

[...]
Already, tens of thousands of ballots across the country have been disqualified in this year’s primaries, many because they did not arrive in time. In Wisconsin, 2,659 ballots that were returned after the April 13 deadline for the spring primary were not counted due to their late arrival, according to the state election commission. In California, 70,330 ballots were disqualified because they missed the deadline, according to an AP analysis. Tens of thousands of mail ballots have been tossed out in this year’s primaries. What will happen in November? Ballots are typically sorted by hand and prioritized by postal workers so they can be sure they are delivered on time, USPS employees said.

The current backlogs are becoming so dire that if the new procedures remain in place, workers may not be able to locate all the ballots in time for them to be processed, they said. “If they keep this up until the election, there’s no telling how many days-worth of delays there could be. I mean, we’ll be delivering political mail days after the election,” a postal worker from California said.

[...]

Quin_Dub · 31-07-2020 9:05am

Overheal wrote: »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/postal-service-backlog-sparks-worries-that-ballot-delivery-could-be-delayed-in-november/2020/07/30/cb19f1f4-d1d0-11ea-8d32-1ebf4e9d8e0d_story.html#comments-wrapper

Trumps megadonor-come-Postmaster general instituted postal changes in early July that have been causing serious USPS backlogs. Coincidence? :mad:

It's a ~2300 word article but the gist is:

It's all part of the plan.

This tweet from yesterday is the tell towards his plan

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1288933078287745024

What he hopes to do with all the messing with the postal service etc. is slow down the mail-in vote to facilitate his grab for the result.

If it's close on Election night and Trump is leading slightly in places like Florida etc. Fox , Sinclair and the rest of the Right-wing media will call the result for Trump.

"Donald Trump has been re-elected President of the United States" they'll pronounce over and over again.

Then as the mail-in votes come in if Biden then takes the lead , Trump et al will unleash a barrage of law-suits claiming fraud etc. etc. etc.

And just like 20 years ago , they'll delay and delay and delay until someone like De Santis says "Well , the only uncontested result is the one called on the night , so Donald Trump wins Florida (or wherever)"

It will go to the Supreme court , but the one area where Roberts has been absolutely consistent in his support for GOP thinking is around Voter rights (or lack of rights in this case) , so the Supreme Court would vote 5-4 to uphold the initial result.

If it's close , Trump will steal it , he's been setting it up for months.

The only real defense to this plan is for Biden to win in a rout.

Chips Lovell · 31-07-2020 10:23am

Mod Note

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Keep your language civil, particularly when referring to other posters and people in the public eye. Using unsavoury language does not add to your argument. Examples would be referring to other people or groups as scumbags, crusties, sheeple, shills, trolls, traitors or saying that recently deceased people should “rot in hell” or similar. Repeated use of terms like that will result in a ban from the forum

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hetuzozaho · 31-07-2020 4:39pm

I thought his conference yesterday was particularly bad.

Obviously still pushing the opening of the country as it will somehow aid his reelection campaign. Unbelievable selfishness on show.

Trump wrote:

We have to remember that there’s another side to this: Keeping them out of school and keeping work closed is causing death also. Economic harm, but it’s causing death for different reasons. But death — probably more death.

More death? And sure he already saved millions of lives all by himself when he shut down flights from "CHYYNA".

And then trying to claim that countries seeing the virus numbers increase again are at levels never seen before so he can try and convince us that him not locking things down for long enough was grand as there's no point anyway!

Trump wrote:

One of the articles that came out was, “The World’s Covid Resurgence.” This is the Wall Street Journal editorial — the main editorial yesterday in the Wall Street Journal. I don’t always agree with them. But they have “The World’s Covid Resurgence.” “Countries hailed as models [to] see…” — and then they go, the virus returns at a level it’s never — they haven’t even seen. We’ve been giving praise to certain countries, and the virus has now come to them like — like the first time.

And he marched on with his getting the kids back to school, I'm not sure why he is so obsessed with this, surely they can all just work hard and become bigly businessmen without some teachers polluting their minds with an education and facts and god forbid empathy.

Trump wrote:

Young people are almost immune to this disease. The younger, the better, I guess. They’re stronger. They’re stronger. They have a stronger immune system. It’s an incredible thing. Nobody has ever seen this before. Various types of flu will hurt young people more than older people.

But young people are almost immune.

It's all such a pathetic attempt to paint himself in a good light. Anybody falling for it anymore I wonder?

The Herman Cain stuff is hard to listen to too, Kayleigh on there now, Kayleigh quoting Cain's staff: "no way of knowing for sure how or where". Like just own that the Tulsa rally was wrong.

Trump Quotes taken from: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-press-briefing-july-30-2020/

robinph · 31-07-2020 5:29pm

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Trump Quotes taken from: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-press-briefing-july-30-2020/

:eek:

I know they have to record every word he says because, reasons, but you'd have thought someone would have found a way to sanitise the ramblings from needing to appear word for word on the WhiteHouse.gov page. It really doesn't show anyone in a good light.

looksee · 31-07-2020 5:43pm

Is there a 'good light' in the US government/White House any more? Record his ramblings as a warning to future generations. Why sanitise it?

CelticRambler · 31-07-2020 6:33pm

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Trump Quotes taken from: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-press-briefing-july-30-2020/

And with the scarcity of testing in Latin America, the true numbers — you have no idea what they might be.

Wasn't someone recently banging on about there being too much testing in the US, making the true numbers look bad ... ? :rolleyes:

And I see he's still referring to "1917" - the so-called Spanish Flu. Seth Meyers had a rant about that recently, asking how nobody in the White House has the balls to tell him that the that pandemic happened in 1918.

EltonJohn69 · 01-08-2020 1:06am

Trump was a bit reckless interacting with that crowd getting off the plane....

Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

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