Imagine rejecting a 600k house

MFPM · 28-07-2020 2:44pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

you probably work, but as before, over 60% of council tenants only receive money from welfare, so for them its 30-40 a week. 30-40 a week is the majority of cases.

It would be helpful if you provided some official facts and figures for these assertions otherwise they're just statements by someone with a particular ideological agenda.

El Tarangu · 28-07-2020 2:45pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I don't know if I believe it or not but why the hell would we build social housing in portmarnock.

Why would we build social houses full stop - I can't imagine why houses would be being given out for free when there are a great many people privately-renting and paying mortgages on apartments.

Social housing should only be apartments, IMO.

MFPM · 28-07-2020 2:49pm

El Tarangu wrote: »

Why would we build social houses full stop - I can't imagine why houses would be being given out for free when there are a great many people privately-renting and paying mortgages on apartments.

Social housing should only be apartments, IMO.

No one get's a house for 'free' don't be disingenuous. Secondly, social houses are built because the private market is incapable of providing housing for all who need it.

Eric Cartman · 28-07-2020 2:50pm

MFPM wrote: »

It would be helpful if you provided some official facts and figures for these assertions otherwise they're just statements by someone with a particular ideological agenda.

I knew well id be asked for it, here's the table I've posted about 50 times already :

from : https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/sha_summary_2019_dec_2019_web_1.pdf

I should get this stickied in this forum just to stop being asked :pac:

MFPM · 28-07-2020 2:55pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I knew well id be asked for it, here's the table I've posted about 50 times already :

from : https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/sha_summary_2019_dec_2019_web_1.pdf

I should get this stickied in this forum just to stop being asked :pac:

I knew well id be asked for it,

Of course you'd be asked FFS! Wouldn't it be odd if social houses were taken up by people on very good wages?

And the arrears....and the 30-40 per week?

Eric Cartman · 28-07-2020 3:01pm

MFPM wrote: »

Of course you'd be asked FFS! Wouldn't it be odd if social houses were taken up by people on very good wages?

And the arrears....and the 30-40 per week?

people on social housing are considered below the threshold to pay more than the basic rent , its 30-40 a week in rent, its a regarded amount, nobody disagrees with it , its as common a fact as the sky being blue.

as for the arrears :

https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-city-council-5-4956180-Jan2020/

33 million just to Dublin City council.

The latest figures show around 60% of tenants are in arrears with over 5% of tenants owing at least €7,000.

Kamu · 28-07-2020 3:08pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

people on social housing are considered below the threshold to pay more than the basic rent , its 30-40 a week in rent, its a regarded amount, nobody disagrees with it , its as common a fact as the sky being blue.

as for the arrears :

https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-city-council-5-4956180-Jan2020/

33 million just to Dublin City council.

Just a note on arrears, each year we go into arrears as we get our rent assessed once per year and with Social welfare increases and my pay increases, our household income generally increases each year.

We then get an updated weekly rent that includes an arrears payment that will have our arrears paid by the next rent assessment.

touts · 28-07-2020 3:29pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Every new development you see being built at the moment will have many council
tenants in them

Well that's one way to lower the house prices nationally. Nothing hits value of houses more than having council tenants in there. If it's a legal requirement from now on then people will hesitate before buying new and not knowing who their neighbours will be and instead will look to more established estates and communities. That in turn will drive prices in new estates down to a level where the risk of having some horses and a few scrap cars strewn around in the front garden beside you is almost worth taking.

Alicano · 28-07-2020 3:32pm

Kamu wrote: »

I pay 75 euro a week as my weekly wage is 500 euro. Total we pay 140 a week.

Fair play. To highlight the opposite side of coin. I am 20 years in my job and you earn more than I do a fortnight. I have a 25 year mortgage on 'ironically' what would have been an original Dublin 2 bed council house

Plus utilities and car costs etc..

I'm sure there's more layers to it and nobody on Boards.ie designed the system. Just highlighting both sides.

Thanks for being transparent. Good to know some details about it all rather than speculation etc

MFPM · 28-07-2020 3:34pm

touts wrote: »

Well that's one way to lower the house prices nationally. Nothing hits value of houses more than having council tenants in there. If it's a legal requirement from now on then people will hesitate before buying new and not knowing who their neighbours will be and instead will look to more established estates and communities. That in turn will drive prices in new estates down to a level where the risk of having some horses and a few scrap cars strewn around in the front garden beside you is almost worth taking.

Well that's one way to lower the house prices nationally.

Yes because that's what's been happening since 2013!!

Nothing hits value of houses more than having council tenants in there.

You do know 'council tenants' are people too?

If it's a legal requirement from now on then people will hesitate before buying new and not knowing who their neighbours will be and instead will look to more established estates and communities.

After nearly 20 years of Part V I'm not sure there's a huge amount of evidence for that assertion, although developers were previously allowed to provide the Part V houses anywhere within a Local authority area so they tended not to have them in the more 'exclusive' areas to pander to the snobs, thankfully that's changed.

That in turn will drive prices in new estates down to a level where the risk of having some horses and a few scrap cars strewn around in the front garden beside you is almost worth taking

You do have a dim view of people don't you?

MFPM · 28-07-2020 3:37pm

Alicano wrote: »

Fair play. To highlight the opposite side of coin. I am 20 years in my job and you earn more than I do a fortnight. I have a 25 year mortgage on 'ironically' what would have been an original Dublin 2 bed council house
Plus utilities and car costs etc..

I'm sure there's more layers to it and nobody on Boards.ie designed the system. Just highlighting both sides.

Thanks for being transparent. Good to know some details about it all rather than speculation etc

Can I enquire what you do, you're earning less than 1000 in a fortnight after 20 years in job...that seems really poor wage progression.

ThunbergsAreGo · 28-07-2020 3:38pm

MFPM wrote: »

Of course you'd be asked FFS! Wouldn't it be odd if social houses were taken up by people on very good wages?

And the arrears....and the 30-40 per week?

Yes, it would be odd if taken up by those on high wages - however it should be for those working on low wages - such as the poster above.

The figures above seem to show the system isn't really working for those working and on low wages.

MFPM · 28-07-2020 3:42pm

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Yes, it would be odd if taken up by those on high wages - however it should be for those working on low wages - such as the poster above.

The figures above seem to show the system isn't really working for those working and on low wages.

The problem is that housing policy is so reliant on the market and the market won't build sufficient numbers of social and affordable housing - that's what needs to change but it won't under this government.

KilOit · 28-07-2020 3:42pm

Still rather own a house through getting a mortgage.
Don't know all the details but do you ever own a council house?
Could you be paying that rent to the grave and house goes back to the council?
Least in 25 years my house will be mine to do what I like

MFPM · 28-07-2020 3:46pm

KilOit wrote: »

Still rather own a house through getting a mortgage.
Don't know all the details but do you ever own a council house?
Could you be paying that rent to the grave and house goes back to the council?
Least in 25 years my house will be mine to do what I like

It used to be like that but it was changed in the 80s as the Irish gov followed Thatcher's lead of allowing people buy out their houses. That led to the situation we have today because the social housing stock was diminished wasn't replaced in sufficient numbers.

Many people in countries like Germany rent all their life and it's perfectly fine.

RonanG86 · 28-07-2020 3:56pm

KilOit wrote: »

Still rather own a house through getting a mortgage.
Don't know all the details but do you ever own a council house?
Could you be paying that rent to the grave and house goes back to the council?
Least in 25 years my house will be mine to do what I like

You can apply to buy it out under Tenant Purchase, at a discount from market value. Some houses, such as ones acquired under Part V or ones built especially for a specific needs (ie. elderly or disabled) are not eligible. And you don't do it through the rent or a purchase annuity like 30-40 years ago, you need to raise the lump sum through a mortgage.

But if you don't do that, then no, you won't ever own the house. If you pass away or go to long-term care a child or relative can succeed your tenancy, as long as they've actually been declared living there and paying rent. Otherwise, back to the Council it goes.

As for the OP, I'd expect €600k to be over the limit the Department will fund a house acquisition to, be it Part V or Turnkey even in Dublin. They must've gotten a big discount vs. market value in the Part V calculations. Or DCC soaked up the difference from their own funds.

Eric Cartman · 28-07-2020 3:58pm

Kamu wrote: »

Just a note on arrears, each year we go into arrears as we get our rent assessed once per year and with Social welfare increases and my pay increases, our household income generally increases each year.

We then get an updated weekly rent that includes an arrears payment that will have our arrears paid by the next rent assessment.

and that makes sense, however over 60% of tenants are in receipt of only welfare and unlikely to ever face this adjustment being the cause of arrears.

James Brown · 28-07-2020 4:01pm

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Currently having a nightmare trying to sell and buy a house at the moment.

While in my Aunts on Sunday she told me the council offered her daughter a new build in Portmarnock . She followed it up saying she rejected it and has been offered one in Baldoyle instead.

100% a true story. Where is the fairness in all this?

Ireland 2020

You get three areas to register for. The house in Portmarnock will go to someone else no doubt. Don't see the problem. This is common practice for decades.

ted1 · 28-07-2020 4:01pm

Kamu wrote: »

I pay 75 euro a week as my weekly wage is 500 euro. Total we pay 140 a week.

which puts you at 26k, after rent you have 18,720

Say market rent is 2,000. for someone to be left with 18,720 they would need a salary of around 48k ( as they are being taxed at the higher rate)

so basically someone in a council house making 500 a week has the same spending money as someone earning €924.

Do you have a medical card, Christmas bonus, family income support, back to school allowance.

not much incentive to better oneself. you'd effectively have to double you salary to get to where you are currently

Kamu · 28-07-2020 4:01pm

KilOit wrote: »

Still rather own a house through getting a mortgage.
Don't know all the details but do you ever own a council house?
Could you be paying that rent to the grave and house goes back to the council?
Least in 25 years my house will be mine to do what I like

There were programme's (I believe they have been stopped now, but I could be wrong) where you could buy your council house.

My parents didn't have the foresight, or did depending who is talking, to avail of that programme.

When my parents die, my sister and I will continue to live in the house, as we are down as tenents and pay rent, and as such have a right to stay.

If we have families, we can put them down as tenents, and they can pay rent and continue to stay after we die, Etc, etc.

Now, an argument can be made that my sister and I don't need a house, and the council may offer our own place, or a different place for both of us. The council most likely won't do this though as my sister has a disability.

RonanG86 · 28-07-2020 4:06pm

Kamu wrote: »

There were programme's (I believe they have been stopped now, but I could be wrong) where you could buy your council house.

The '95 scheme, which you had to raise the lump sum via mortgage and gave you a discount on market value based on how long you'd been in the house, ended in 2010 I think.

However, there's a new scheme called the Tenant Incremental Purchase Scheme in place since 2016.
You don't actually pay in increments, the Council put an incremental charge on the property equivalent to the discount you got from the market value that's to be paid back if you sell the house privately after a certain period.

Alicano · 28-07-2020 4:08pm

MFPM wrote: »

Can I enquire what you do, you're earning less than 1000 in a fortnight after 20 years in job...that seems really poor wage progression.

Tell our CEO that

I'm in aviation. Sold contract 10 years ago and I've been at the end point of a pay scale few a years now. 5 year pay freezes during recession etc. And now we're right back in the sh1t

KAMU obviously has other factors to his life to qualify for SH. But he's working away so fair play to him.

Kamu · 28-07-2020 4:08pm

ted1 wrote: »

which puts you at 26k, after rent you have 18,720

Do you have a medical card, Christmas bonus, family income support, back to school allowance.

I do not receive any of those supplements, but my parents and sister would receive, or have received them, as they are in receipt of Social Welfare payments.

I am in a lucky position, but if you look at my family unit as a whole, you can see that it stems from unfortunate circumstances.

Chris_Heilong · 28-07-2020 4:15pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

and I'm sure they'll both care for and appreciate the property in the same way.

It depends on the people in fairness, I grew up in a poor neighborhood and as far as we were concerned even though we were renting council property to us it was our home and treated well, Later when I could afford to buy my own house I did.

cgcsb · 28-07-2020 4:19pm

Seems implausible given that that there's circa 17,500 people on the housing list in Dublin City and there are people on that list for 17 years.

James Brown · 28-07-2020 4:22pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I depends on the people in fairness, I grew up in a poor neighborhood and as far as we were concerned even though we were renting council property to us it was our home and treated well, Later when I could afford to buy my own house I did.

I rented for many years. Always treated it like it was my home, because it was.
The idea it's all single mothers and chancers just doesn't add up. Likely most of us have family or ourselves started out in social housing. My local TD did. As did a Garda Sargent and school principle I know.

jimmycrackcorm · 28-07-2020 4:26pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So we don't end up with black spots like we did in the past. So people can live near their jobs. So people can live near their support networks.

The taxpaying culchies who had to move to Dublin for jobs don't get the choice of living near their support networks, and even Dubliners who have to move to commuter towns, aren't necessarily able to choose that either.

Who are creating the black spots - it if isn't the people getting free 4ever gaffes?

cgcsb · 28-07-2020 4:30pm

Where do all the classist loons want the nurses teachers and gardaí to live? Or would they rather raise their incomes through taxation to the point that they can purchase that €600k house. There is of course an expectation that the state can produce perfectly good housing at lower cost than that, but right wing ideology being so pervasive in this country of late it seems that even social housing is being privitised, at high public cost, to the charity industry.

James Brown · 28-07-2020 4:31pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The taxpaying culchies who had to move to Dublin for jobs don't get the choice of living near their support networks, and even Dubliners who have to move to commuter towns, aren't necessarily able to choose that either.

Who are creating the black spots - it if isn't the people getting free 4ever gaffes?

Is it the numerous social housing estates sprawled all over the place forcing people move to commuter towns or country folk to Dublin?
No, it's ****e piecemeal planning and ridiculous over valued property rentals.

FYI: tax payers are and should be able to avail of rent subsidies and social housing.

Faith+1 · 28-07-2020 4:33pm

Kamu wrote: »

If it's from Dublin City Council, the main earner pays 15% of there weekly wage and any subsequent lodger pays 19e per week.

Exactly but it's €21 not €19. The primary earner is given a €32 credit before any assessment is done, then they pay 15% of their total income plus €21 per additional sub tenant.

So take Decco and Angela who do fcuk all and are both on Jobseekers Allowance for the past 20 years.

Decco - €203 -€32 = 171 x .15% = €25.65
Angela - €21 contribution.

So total cost - €25.65 + €21= €46.65 rent PW. There might be a boiler charge of €3 per week so that's €49.65 per week total. If they live in a house then it's their responsibility for their household waste but if they reside in a flat complex it's usually €4 per week.

A neighbour of mine pays €28.65 per week for a 2 bed house in Cabra and hes's the only one residing there. While a friend of mine works her ass off and pays €600 for a room in some ****ty apartment complex.

The system needs a complete overhaul.

Imagine rejecting a 600k house

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