Imagine rejecting a 600k house

Sweet.Science · 28-07-2020 10:11am #1

Currently having a nightmare trying to sell and buy a house at the moment.

While in my Aunts on Sunday she told me the council offered her daughter a new build in Portmarnock . She followed it up saying she rejected it and has been offered one in Baldoyle instead.

100% a true story. Where is the fairness in all this?

Ireland 2020

Eric Cartman · 28-07-2020 10:19am

I don't know if I believe it or not but why the hell would we build social housing in portmarnock.

neris · 28-07-2020 10:21am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I don't know if I believe it or not but why the hell would we build social housing in portmarnock.

its probably part of one of the new developments that the developer has to give to the council as part of the planning

Coybig_ · 28-07-2020 10:21am

I believe Fingal County Council are using CBL by now which makes this story quite doubtful.

LeinsterDub · 28-07-2020 10:35am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I don't know if I believe it or not but why the hell would we build social housing in portmarnock.

So we don't end up with black spots like we did in the past. So people can live near their jobs. So people can live near their support networks.

punisher5112 · 28-07-2020 10:37am

Sure there will be a good few in D4 too.... New development at rte....

SEPT 23 1989 · 28-07-2020 10:59am

Every new development you see being built at the moment will have many council
tenants in them

Sweet.Science · 28-07-2020 11:02am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I don't know if I believe it or not but why the hell would we build social housing in portmarnock.

I can see why you wouldnt believe me. But its true

suicide_circus · 28-07-2020 11:07am

whats the opposite of gentrification?

28-07-2020 11:13am

suicide_circus wrote: »

whats the opposite of gentrification?

Ghettoisation

Edgware · 28-07-2020 11:15am

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Every new development you see being built at the moment will have many council
tenants in them

The theory being that it will cause social housing tenants to improve their act, keep their houses tidy, no cars on concrete blocks in the front garden and aspire to a higher standard of living. Good luck with that

suicide_circus · 28-07-2020 11:19am

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Ghettoisation

i suppose what i mean is;

if well off people moving into a poor neighbourhood is seen as gentrification, what do you call it when poor people move into a well off neighbourhood? thats hardly ghettoisation..

28-07-2020 11:27am

Ah gotcha.

Assimilation? Or the hope of it?

Eric Cartman · 28-07-2020 11:28am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So we don't end up with black spots like we did in the past. So people can live near their jobs. So people can live near their support networks.

And which people cause it to be a black spot...

28-07-2020 11:30am

What I get from the OP is that there’s a quick turnaround in getting a second offer. That’s got to be good, right? I’m sure someone has taken house 1.

blanch152 · 28-07-2020 12:25pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I don't know if I believe it or not but why the hell would we build social housing in portmarnock.

Coybig_ wrote: »

I believe Fingal County Council are using CBL by now which makes this story quite doubtful.

http://rebuildingireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/CSR-Q1-2019-1.pdf

June 2019 report on social housing has four or five developments in Portmarnock and at least one in Donabate.

imme · 28-07-2020 1:29pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I don't know if I believe it or not but why the hell would we build social housing in portmarnock.

Part V of the housing and planning act 2000
I would imagine.

A nice mix of someone paying €3000 a month on a 25 year mortgage versus someone paying a rent of €40.

Welcome to Ireland indeed.

Eric Cartman · 28-07-2020 1:31pm

imme wrote: »

Part V of the housing and planning act 2000
I would imagine.

A nice mix of someone paying €3000 a month on a 25 year mortgage versus someone paying a rent of €40.

Welcome to Ireland indeed.

and I'm sure they'll both care for and appreciate the property in the same way.

hi! · 28-07-2020 1:32pm

Excuse my ignorance- but someone who gets a new build via social housing do they pay anything towards it?

malinheader · 28-07-2020 1:33pm

imme wrote: »

Part V of the housing and planning act 2000
I would imagine.

A nice mix of someone paying €3000 a month on a 25 year mortgage versus someone paying a rent of €40.

Welcome to Ireland indeed.

And they wonder in alot of cases why some people don't want to work

J.O. Farmer · 28-07-2020 1:33pm

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

What I get from the OP is that there’s a quick turnaround in getting a second offer. That’s got to be good, right? I’m sure someone has taken house 1.

Fantastic news if you're looking for a council house. You can afford to be picky.

Eric Cartman · 28-07-2020 1:35pm

hi! wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance- but someone who gets a new build via social housing do they pay anything towards it?

you pay 30-40 a week, except a lot don't, theres millions of arrears owed.
and in over 60% of cases the tenant is only receiving social welfare so in reality we're paying for the lot.

shesty · 28-07-2020 1:36pm

blanch152 wrote: »

http://rebuildingireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/CSR-Q1-2019-1.pdf

June 2019 report on social housing has four or five developments in Portmarnock and at least one in Donabate.

Fingal are doing this in a lot of locations in North Dublin.I believe I saw another thread here with a link to the fact that Cluid Housing bought about 40 houses in a new development in Rush.Fingal may also have a number in the same development.
I would be pretty sick if I paid almost 400k for a house and the lad around the corner got the exact same for free (or almost).I have no problem with having a social support system in the coutry but that doesn't seem right.

Kamu · 28-07-2020 1:36pm

hi! wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance- but someone who gets a new build via social housing do they pay anything towards it?

If it's from Dublin City Council, the main earner pays 15% of there weekly wage and any subsequent lodger pays 19e per week.

hi! · 28-07-2020 1:36pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

you pay 30-40 a week, except a lot don't, theres millions of arrears owed.
and in over 60% of cases the tenant is only receiving social welfare so in reality we're paying for the lot.

Wow that is so depressing

Kamu · 28-07-2020 1:37pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

you pay 30-40 a week, except a lot don't, theres millions of arrears owed.
and in over 60% of cases the tenant is only receiving social welfare so in reality we're paying for the lot.

I live in a council house, and I pay more than 40 euro per week. I pay 15% of my weekly wage, and my family pay 20euro each.

hi! · 28-07-2020 1:38pm

Kamu wrote: »

I live in a council house, and I pay more than 40 euro per week.

How much out of interest

Eric Cartman · 28-07-2020 1:38pm

Kamu wrote: »

I live in a council house, and I pay more than 40 euro per week.

you probably work, but as before, over 60% of council tenants only receive money from welfare, so for them its 30-40 a week. 30-40 a week is the majority of cases.

The Bishop Basher · 28-07-2020 1:42pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So we don't end up with black spots like we did in the past.

At least they were self contained black spots.

The current system is very unfair on people who work hard to pay for their own home.

hi! · 28-07-2020 1:43pm

The Bishop Basher wrote: »

At least they were self contained black spots.

The current system is very unfair on people who work hard to pay for their own home.

Or those who work hard but can’t afford their own home or rent and are stuck living at home with their parents in their late 20s

Kamu · 28-07-2020 1:43pm

hi! wrote: »

How much out of interest

I pay 75 euro a week as my weekly wage is 500 euro. Total we pay 140 a week.

MFPM · 28-07-2020 1:44pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

you probably work, but as before, over 60% of council tenants only receive money from welfare, so for them its 30-40 a week. 30-40 a week is the majority of cases.

It would be helpful if you provided some official facts and figures for these assertions otherwise they're just statements by someone with a particular ideological agenda.

El Tarangu · 28-07-2020 1:45pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I don't know if I believe it or not but why the hell would we build social housing in portmarnock.

Why would we build social houses full stop - I can't imagine why houses would be being given out for free when there are a great many people privately-renting and paying mortgages on apartments.

Social housing should only be apartments, IMO.

MFPM · 28-07-2020 1:49pm

El Tarangu wrote: »

Why would we build social houses full stop - I can't imagine why houses would be being given out for free when there are a great many people privately-renting and paying mortgages on apartments.

Social housing should only be apartments, IMO.

No one get's a house for 'free' don't be disingenuous. Secondly, social houses are built because the private market is incapable of providing housing for all who need it.

Eric Cartman · 28-07-2020 1:50pm

MFPM wrote: »

It would be helpful if you provided some official facts and figures for these assertions otherwise they're just statements by someone with a particular ideological agenda.

I knew well id be asked for it, here's the table I've posted about 50 times already :

from : https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/sha_summary_2019_dec_2019_web_1.pdf

I should get this stickied in this forum just to stop being asked :pac:

MFPM · 28-07-2020 1:55pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I knew well id be asked for it, here's the table I've posted about 50 times already :

from : https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/sha_summary_2019_dec_2019_web_1.pdf

I should get this stickied in this forum just to stop being asked :pac:

I knew well id be asked for it,

Of course you'd be asked FFS! Wouldn't it be odd if social houses were taken up by people on very good wages?

And the arrears....and the 30-40 per week?

Eric Cartman · 28-07-2020 2:01pm

MFPM wrote: »

Of course you'd be asked FFS! Wouldn't it be odd if social houses were taken up by people on very good wages?

And the arrears....and the 30-40 per week?

people on social housing are considered below the threshold to pay more than the basic rent , its 30-40 a week in rent, its a regarded amount, nobody disagrees with it , its as common a fact as the sky being blue.

as for the arrears :

https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-city-council-5-4956180-Jan2020/

33 million just to Dublin City council.

The latest figures show around 60% of tenants are in arrears with over 5% of tenants owing at least €7,000.

Kamu · 28-07-2020 2:08pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

people on social housing are considered below the threshold to pay more than the basic rent , its 30-40 a week in rent, its a regarded amount, nobody disagrees with it , its as common a fact as the sky being blue.

as for the arrears :

https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-city-council-5-4956180-Jan2020/

33 million just to Dublin City council.

Just a note on arrears, each year we go into arrears as we get our rent assessed once per year and with Social welfare increases and my pay increases, our household income generally increases each year.

We then get an updated weekly rent that includes an arrears payment that will have our arrears paid by the next rent assessment.

touts · 28-07-2020 2:29pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Every new development you see being built at the moment will have many council
tenants in them

Well that's one way to lower the house prices nationally. Nothing hits value of houses more than having council tenants in there. If it's a legal requirement from now on then people will hesitate before buying new and not knowing who their neighbours will be and instead will look to more established estates and communities. That in turn will drive prices in new estates down to a level where the risk of having some horses and a few scrap cars strewn around in the front garden beside you is almost worth taking.

Alicano · 28-07-2020 2:32pm

Kamu wrote: »

I pay 75 euro a week as my weekly wage is 500 euro. Total we pay 140 a week.

Fair play. To highlight the opposite side of coin. I am 20 years in my job and you earn more than I do a fortnight. I have a 25 year mortgage on 'ironically' what would have been an original Dublin 2 bed council house

Plus utilities and car costs etc..

I'm sure there's more layers to it and nobody on Boards.ie designed the system. Just highlighting both sides.

Thanks for being transparent. Good to know some details about it all rather than speculation etc

MFPM · 28-07-2020 2:34pm

touts wrote: »

Well that's one way to lower the house prices nationally. Nothing hits value of houses more than having council tenants in there. If it's a legal requirement from now on then people will hesitate before buying new and not knowing who their neighbours will be and instead will look to more established estates and communities. That in turn will drive prices in new estates down to a level where the risk of having some horses and a few scrap cars strewn around in the front garden beside you is almost worth taking.

Well that's one way to lower the house prices nationally.

Yes because that's what's been happening since 2013!!

Nothing hits value of houses more than having council tenants in there.

You do know 'council tenants' are people too?

If it's a legal requirement from now on then people will hesitate before buying new and not knowing who their neighbours will be and instead will look to more established estates and communities.

After nearly 20 years of Part V I'm not sure there's a huge amount of evidence for that assertion, although developers were previously allowed to provide the Part V houses anywhere within a Local authority area so they tended not to have them in the more 'exclusive' areas to pander to the snobs, thankfully that's changed.

That in turn will drive prices in new estates down to a level where the risk of having some horses and a few scrap cars strewn around in the front garden beside you is almost worth taking

You do have a dim view of people don't you?

MFPM · 28-07-2020 2:37pm

Alicano wrote: »

Fair play. To highlight the opposite side of coin. I am 20 years in my job and you earn more than I do a fortnight. I have a 25 year mortgage on 'ironically' what would have been an original Dublin 2 bed council house
Plus utilities and car costs etc..

I'm sure there's more layers to it and nobody on Boards.ie designed the system. Just highlighting both sides.

Thanks for being transparent. Good to know some details about it all rather than speculation etc

Can I enquire what you do, you're earning less than 1000 in a fortnight after 20 years in job...that seems really poor wage progression.

ThunbergsAreGo · 28-07-2020 2:38pm

MFPM wrote: »

Of course you'd be asked FFS! Wouldn't it be odd if social houses were taken up by people on very good wages?

And the arrears....and the 30-40 per week?

Yes, it would be odd if taken up by those on high wages - however it should be for those working on low wages - such as the poster above.

The figures above seem to show the system isn't really working for those working and on low wages.

MFPM · 28-07-2020 2:42pm

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Yes, it would be odd if taken up by those on high wages - however it should be for those working on low wages - such as the poster above.

The figures above seem to show the system isn't really working for those working and on low wages.

The problem is that housing policy is so reliant on the market and the market won't build sufficient numbers of social and affordable housing - that's what needs to change but it won't under this government.

KilOit · 28-07-2020 2:42pm

Still rather own a house through getting a mortgage.
Don't know all the details but do you ever own a council house?
Could you be paying that rent to the grave and house goes back to the council?
Least in 25 years my house will be mine to do what I like

MFPM · 28-07-2020 2:46pm

KilOit wrote: »

Still rather own a house through getting a mortgage.
Don't know all the details but do you ever own a council house?
Could you be paying that rent to the grave and house goes back to the council?
Least in 25 years my house will be mine to do what I like

It used to be like that but it was changed in the 80s as the Irish gov followed Thatcher's lead of allowing people buy out their houses. That led to the situation we have today because the social housing stock was diminished wasn't replaced in sufficient numbers.

Many people in countries like Germany rent all their life and it's perfectly fine.

RonanG86 · 28-07-2020 2:56pm

KilOit wrote: »

Still rather own a house through getting a mortgage.
Don't know all the details but do you ever own a council house?
Could you be paying that rent to the grave and house goes back to the council?
Least in 25 years my house will be mine to do what I like

You can apply to buy it out under Tenant Purchase, at a discount from market value. Some houses, such as ones acquired under Part V or ones built especially for a specific needs (ie. elderly or disabled) are not eligible. And you don't do it through the rent or a purchase annuity like 30-40 years ago, you need to raise the lump sum through a mortgage.

But if you don't do that, then no, you won't ever own the house. If you pass away or go to long-term care a child or relative can succeed your tenancy, as long as they've actually been declared living there and paying rent. Otherwise, back to the Council it goes.

As for the OP, I'd expect €600k to be over the limit the Department will fund a house acquisition to, be it Part V or Turnkey even in Dublin. They must've gotten a big discount vs. market value in the Part V calculations. Or DCC soaked up the difference from their own funds.

Eric Cartman · 28-07-2020 2:58pm

Kamu wrote: »

Just a note on arrears, each year we go into arrears as we get our rent assessed once per year and with Social welfare increases and my pay increases, our household income generally increases each year.

We then get an updated weekly rent that includes an arrears payment that will have our arrears paid by the next rent assessment.

and that makes sense, however over 60% of tenants are in receipt of only welfare and unlikely to ever face this adjustment being the cause of arrears.

James Brown · 28-07-2020 3:01pm

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Currently having a nightmare trying to sell and buy a house at the moment.

While in my Aunts on Sunday she told me the council offered her daughter a new build in Portmarnock . She followed it up saying she rejected it and has been offered one in Baldoyle instead.

100% a true story. Where is the fairness in all this?

Ireland 2020

You get three areas to register for. The house in Portmarnock will go to someone else no doubt. Don't see the problem. This is common practice for decades.

ted1 · 28-07-2020 3:01pm

Kamu wrote: »

I pay 75 euro a week as my weekly wage is 500 euro. Total we pay 140 a week.

which puts you at 26k, after rent you have 18,720

Say market rent is 2,000. for someone to be left with 18,720 they would need a salary of around 48k ( as they are being taxed at the higher rate)

so basically someone in a council house making 500 a week has the same spending money as someone earning €924.

Do you have a medical card, Christmas bonus, family income support, back to school allowance.

not much incentive to better oneself. you'd effectively have to double you salary to get to where you are currently

Kamu · 28-07-2020 3:01pm

KilOit wrote: »

Still rather own a house through getting a mortgage.
Don't know all the details but do you ever own a council house?
Could you be paying that rent to the grave and house goes back to the council?
Least in 25 years my house will be mine to do what I like

There were programme's (I believe they have been stopped now, but I could be wrong) where you could buy your council house.

My parents didn't have the foresight, or did depending who is talking, to avail of that programme.

When my parents die, my sister and I will continue to live in the house, as we are down as tenents and pay rent, and as such have a right to stay.

If we have families, we can put them down as tenents, and they can pay rent and continue to stay after we die, Etc, etc.

Now, an argument can be made that my sister and I don't need a house, and the council may offer our own place, or a different place for both of us. The council most likely won't do this though as my sister has a disability.

Imagine rejecting a 600k house

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