what is the burning passion for having an open fire?

Andy From Sligo · 08-12-2019 11:43pm

OldRio wrote: »

You do talk some rubbish. I was a professional fire fighter for over 22 years in the UK. Do you know how many fires I attended where a fire started in the way you suggest.?

One.

I stand corrected to your superior experience'ness - but you said UK .. how many people in UK have an open fire these days? - I think you might have had more call-outs in Ireland on chimney fires alone!

Andy From Sligo · 08-12-2019 11:49pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Back home I have an APC PowerUPS i found in a skip to run the circulation pump of the back boiler though the oil central heating would need about 400w to stay going I believe. Though i did look at a house one time that had a honda generator for the central heating boiler like you described. This place was off the grid so said honda jenny had to power the rest of the house as well. It was a bit of a fcukup of a system really and I would throw a backboiler into a place like that if i ended up buying it

super idea - yes I didnt think about the APC battery back up unit UPS , but yeah as soon as the mains electric cuts off the UPS can kick in automatically - ideal

Andy From Sligo · 09-12-2019 12:06am

Good lord superSer's have gone sexy now!!

https://www.woodies.ie/provence-portable-gas-heater-324522?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=CjwKCAiA27LvBRB0EiwAPc8XWX6_1GOwdvIOVcsW8ipfbgUT6QRJa7J0dlIov9YsS9rSIN4-yYoAHRoCthIQAvD_BwE

This is what the last one I bought looked like:

deezell · 09-12-2019 12:16am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

yep, if it didnt work of course. I mean of course its not going to work as efficient as an outdoor condensing boiler ...

You can say that again.

....however money is tight....

Then don't throw it away

....of course there are gonna be unscrupulous people about to take your money. And if it is gonna cost a couple of thousand then yes it may well be better looking into getting an outdoor boiler unit - but then that means more work and changing of pipework at least as well as other stuff.

There are no quick fix solutions. Read my previous post on this. The water jacket of a solid fuel range is completely unsuitable to absorb the heat from an oil burner plume. The flue route through the range and out is equally unsuitable, with plume condensate running back into the range. Efficiency will be really low. Most of your expensive oil will be sent up the chimney. Putting in a larger burner to try and raise the rad temperature will simply burn more oil.
This firebird 26kw outdoor boiler is about €1250.
http://www.mcdonoghdirect.ie/firebird-c26-silverpac-boiler-c2x23891528.
You'll pay about €300 more for the indoor version, which will make it easier to install onto the old range flow and return, though if you wish to use the range flue it will require correct lining for the boiler exhaust.
Also consider getting tanked gas and a small gas boiler. These are super efficient, and house installation is less disruptive and costs are lower due to the small size and ease of fitting. Check calor gas or Flo gas for details. There are grants available for efficient boiler install, but you're on your own with a dodgy range conversion.

Ubbquittious · 09-12-2019 12:31am

All this endless sh1tetalk about ever complicated ways to stay warm is making me consider moving to Saint Vincent and the Grenadines. Though I don't know how I'll move to both of them at the same time. I suppose I'll bring the auld punt along with me on a container and travel between the two. If the thing hasn't blown away in the storm tonight.

I'll be laying back in a hammock sipping a caipirinha with a little tiny parasol shticking out of the glass and any recollection of the muppets wanting to ban stoves will fade quickly into obscurity.

Andy From Sligo · 09-12-2019 12:40am

deezell wrote: »

You can say that again.

Then don't throw it away

There are no quick fix solutions. Read my previous post on this. The water jacket of a solid fuel range is completely unsuitable to absorb the heat from an oil burner plume. The flue route through the range and out is equally unsuitable, with plume condensate running back into the range. Efficiency will be really low. Most of your expensive oil will be sent up the chimney. Putting in a larger burner to try and raise the rad temperature will simply burn more oil.
This firebird 26kw outdoor boiler is about €1250.
http://www.mcdonoghdirect.ie/firebird-c26-silverpac-boiler-c2x23891528.
You'll pay about €300 more for the indoor version, which will make it easier to install onto the old range flow and return, though if you wish to use the range flue it will require correct lining for the boiler exhaust.
Also consider getting tanked gas and a small gas boiler. These are super efficient, and house installation is less disruptive and costs are lower due to the small size and ease of fitting. Check calor gas or Flo gas for details. There are grants available for efficient boiler install, but you're on your own with a dodgy range conversion.

do Calor gas still demand you to have a full fill of gas when they come out ? - I rember checking a few years back and they wouldnt come out to fill half a tank or quarter of a tank , said it wasnt worth their time.

With kerosene oil you can even get a couple of plastic containers of oil each holding €20 in each container and put in boot of car/pickup from anywhere like a petrol station which has a kerosene pump on the forecourt - even better when money is tight and you cannot afford a tank or half a tank fill of kerosene.

Benefits are - you can keep check of how much oil you are using better than having a full tank of oil and using it willy nilly,
not having huge amounts of oil in your outside tank and if someone does rob it all they get is 40 quids worth.
If heating run out and you need some heating oil as emergency you can just go to local petrol station and stick some in the cans

negatives: as you putting it into the outside tank it could spill as your putting it in or get all kersosene over your hands and it stinks, and if you have it in boot of your car it can stink the car out as you are transporting it.

Andy From Sligo · 09-12-2019 12:45am

Ubbquittious wrote: »

All this endless sh1tetalk about ever complicated ways to stay warm is making me consider moving to Saint Vincent and the Grenadines. Though I don't know how I'll move to both of them at the same time. I suppose I'll bring the auld punt along with me on a container and travel between the two. If the thing hasn't blown away in the storm tonight.

I'll be laying back in a hammock sipping a caipirinha with a little tiny parasol shticking out of the glass and any recollection of the muppets wanting to ban stoves will fade quickly into obscurity.

you have the right idea - I tell thee.

its awful shtormy out there tonight alright , just be sitting here in front of my electric coal effect fire on in the fireplace and wall thermostat on the wall on 21'c listening to bins and shyte falling down and things rolling around in the garden - glad I am not out in it!

There be a fair few fires across the land tonight with crap built chimneys with no proper flues and chimney cowls getting all kinds of smoke and fumes being blown back into the lounge tonight with that gale ...

gozunda · 09-12-2019 12:47am

what is the burning passion for having an open fire?

nil aon tintean mar a tintean fein

Andy From Sligo · 09-12-2019 1:10am

gozunda wrote: »

nil aon tintean mar a tintean fein

there's no place like home ?

gozunda · 09-12-2019 1:29am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

there's no place like home ?

Níl Aon Tinteán Mar Do Thinteán Féin’ is an old Irish saying that literally translates as ‘there is no fireside like your own fireside’ ...

Conveys much the same meaning as the English 'Home is where the hearth is' ....

OldRio · 09-12-2019 9:55am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I stand corrected to your superior experience'ness - but you said UK .. how many people in UK have an open fire these days? - I think you might have had more call-outs in Ireland on chimney fires alone!

I have no idea how many people have open fires in the UK THESE days. Non. But I can tell you that most houses
in the mid 1970s (When I started working in the Fire Service) had open fires. Thousands of back to back terrace houses in most urban cities and towns.

'More call outs in Ireland on Chimney fires alone'

You really have no idea have you? Non. Do you think all these back to back terrace houses had the chimney swept every year?

Loafing Oaf · 09-12-2019 11:16am

The Government is to ask the public if it wants to ban the burning of all smoky fuels – including turf, peat, wood and coal – as it backs away from a nationwide ban on smoky coal only.

I had no idea this was under consideration (if it actually is). Would it effectively mean a ban on open fires? Is there anything 'environmentally friendly' you can burn?

Snow Garden · 09-12-2019 11:20am

Ubbquittious wrote: »

All this endless sh1tetalk about ever complicated ways to stay warm is making me consider moving to Saint Vincent and the Grenadines. Though I don't know how I'll move to both of them at the same time. I suppose I'll bring the auld punt along with me on a container and travel between the two. If the thing hasn't blown away in the storm tonight.

I'll be laying back in a hammock sipping a caipirinha with a little tiny parasol shticking out of the glass and any recollection of the muppets wanting to ban stoves will fade quickly into obscurity.

If I was living on an island in the Carribean I would still light a fire every night. An outdoor fire obviously. Watching fires is great for your health and immune system.

air · 09-12-2019 11:37am

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/extreme-air-pollution-in-ireland-caused-by-burning-of-solid-fuel-1.3262456?mode=amp

Prof O’Dowd confirmed “extraordinary levels of air pollution” exceeding WHO guidelines were found in Dublin during one in five winter days last year. These occurred at night due to domestic heating activity, while daytime air pollution levels (mainly from traffic), reached less than 10 per cent of night time peaks.

air · 09-12-2019 11:42am

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Is there anything 'environmentally friendly' you can burn?

I believe wood pellets are quite clean burning, other than that I don't think there are very many solid fuel options.

Natural gas and electricity are the best options in terms of air quality currently.

OldRio · 09-12-2019 11:49am

air wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/extreme-air-pollution-in-ireland-caused-by-burning-of-solid-fuel-1.3262456?mode=amp

Prof O’Dowd confirmed “extraordinary levels of air pollution” exceeding WHO guidelines were found in Dublin during one in five winter days last year. These occurred at night due to domestic heating activity, while daytime air pollution levels (mainly from traffic), reached less than 10 per cent of night time peaks.

If you are going to quote best get the facts correct. EG 'last year' ?

air · 09-12-2019 11:51am

OldRio wrote: »

If you are going to quote best get the facts correct. EG 'last year' ?

What reason do you have to suggest that a significant change is likely to have occured between 2016 and 2018?

OldRio · 09-12-2019 12:06pm

air wrote: »

What reason do you have to suggest that a significant change is likely to have occured between 2016 and 2018?

I didn't. I just pointed out an error in your post. Do you agree that you were incorrect?

Quoting Scientists wrongly is not the way forward in any discussion surely.

gozunda · 09-12-2019 12:12pm

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

The Government is to ask the public if it wants to ban the burning of all smoky fuels – including turf, peat, wood and coal – as it backs away from a nationwide ban on smoky coal only.

I had no idea this was under consideration (if it actually is). Would it effectively mean a ban on open fires? Is there anything 'environmentally friendly' you can burn?

Except it looks like we are being fed a pack of pooh once again. According to the article linked

“We now know that peat briquettes and wood are as bad for air quality as smoky coal,” Mr Varadkar said. “Switching from smoky coal to those other solid fuels does nothing for air quality.

Incorrect Mr Varadkar. Properly dried wood based fuel is not even close to bituminous coal in terms of particulate matter emissions etc

1-s2.0-S1352231014000521-fx1.jpg

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1352231014000521

The other thing is that according to the EPA Ireland has remained within the EU’s limits for air quality levels but we are being told we are still 'bad'

Tbh - looks like yet another boot in the arse for yet more taxation.

air · 09-12-2019 12:16pm

OldRio wrote: »

I didn't. I just pointed out an error in your post. Do you agree that you were incorrect?

Quoting Scientists wrongly is not the way forward in any discussion surely.

Hold your horses buddy. I copied and pasted directly from the article and didn't alter a single letter.

I provided a link to the article which has the date of publication clearly stated at the top in case anyone is interested.

Your're clutching at straws big time.

OldRio · 09-12-2019 12:23pm

air wrote: »

Hold your horses buddy. I copied and pasted directly from the article and didn't alter a single letter.

I provided a link to the article which has the date of publication clearly stated at the top in case anyone is interested.

Your're clutching at straws big time.

Oh deary me. The clarification you gave after my original post on the article says it all.
Not sure what straws im trying to clutch but continue with your agenda.

air · 09-12-2019 12:24pm

gozunda wrote: »

Incorrect Mr Varadkar. Properly dried wood based fuel is not even close to bituminous coal in terms of particulate matter emissions etc

I'd say he's being confused by the propaganda provided by the smoky coal lobbyists who quoted emissions from "wet wood" in the article.

air · 09-12-2019 12:28pm

OldRio wrote: »

Oh deary me. The clarification you gave after my original post on the article says it all.
Not sure what straws im trying to clutch but continue with your agenda.

Clarification? What facts did I alter, clarify or anything else?
I quoted a section from an article and provided a reference. I didn't provide so much as a single line of comment with it so fairly difficult for me to have mislead anyone.

What is your actual point?
How were you or anyone else misled by my post exactly?

I've no agenda other than an interest in public health.

deezell · 09-12-2019 1:13pm

air wrote: »

Clarification? What facts did I alter, clarify or anything else?
I quoted a section from an article and provided a reference. I didn't provide so much as a single line of comment with it so fairly difficult for me to have mislead anyone.

What is your actual point?
How were you or anyone else misled by my post exactly?

I've no agenda other than an interest in public health.

I think he's nit picking as the article was from 2017, so when your guote includes a reference to "last year", you didn't preface the quote with " in 2017, Professor etc...
Like I said, nit picking, and yes, emissions are at least as bad if not worse in "real" last year, 2018, as against quoted last year, which would be, 2016? Well done, good article, and it proves people are burning all kinds of sh!te, even if they're not burning as much banned Smokey coal. Smokie are quite a decent band, banned, whatever. Who the fcuk is Alice?

Andy From Sligo · 09-12-2019 4:02pm

the air might be cleaner / healthier /smell better if people actually burnt just fuel in their open fireplace but a lot dont they throw plastic sweet wrappers in there when they are done with them , and other plastics like carrier bags and plastic milk bottles on the fire (to help light it or get a good raging fire underway) , contents of their ashtrays complete with fag butts , and firelighters (what carcinogenics have in them to start a fire petrol or something is it?) and then newspaper and magazines scrunched up onto the fire (the ink and coloured ink and glossy'ness of the magazines must have chemicals in them that give off toxic fumes when it burns and then straight up the chimney and out into the atmosphere for everyone to breath in) and god know what else people chuck into the fire these days to burn

if people burnt just smokeless coal only in the fireplace and that's it maybe there wouldn't even be all this talk of banning them. But if the people who have open fires and stoves cannot use them responsible and cause a nuisance to others and peoples health and air quality this is where nanny state has to kick in and enforce things like this - most of the time we are our own worst enemy and then complain when change come along.

Muahahaha · 09-12-2019 6:02pm

Ban on burning all solid fuels is being discussed on Newstalk now in a minute

Ray Palmer · 09-12-2019 6:28pm

Snow Garden wrote: »

If I was living on an island in the Carribean I would still light a fire every night. An outdoor fire obviously. Watching fires is great for your health and immune system.

Why would you think adding pollutants to the air you breath good for health and immune system.

Did you know there were native Americans who lived in Canada but never invented the chimney. They all had chronic lung problems as a result. Even with chimneys you inhale pollutants from a fire. My granny had a open coal fire and the coal dust was all over the house. Soot comes from all things burnt. That is not good for your health

beejee · 09-12-2019 6:37pm

As someone said to me once, and it stuck, a good fire is like company.

There is something animate about a fire, something close to being "alive", the crackle and movement and shifting glow.

Really love a nice fire

Galwayguy35 · 09-12-2019 8:41pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Ban on burning all solid fuels is being discussed on Newstalk now in a minute

I'll be looking forward to my local TDs views on this next year when they knock on my door looking for votes.

They might get a free pass on this in urban areas but not in the rest of the country.

air · 09-12-2019 9:04pm

There's a great opportunity for us to lead the way on this in Europe like we did with the smoking ban.
Hopefully the health benefits will be even more far reaching.

what is the burning passion for having an open fire?

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