Incident at Roscommon hotel (asylum seekers)

Wibbs · 14-02-2019 2:45pm

Boggles wrote: »

Ah Heyor, we have all ready nailed down that figure thanks to your link and your stats.

It's just below 40%.

As I pointed out depending on the year of the migrant criss it ranged from around 40-50%, in 2015 it was 54%. There's your "bigger picture" that you asked for.

I asked you a very specific question referencing a very specific camp.

The camp referenced in the data you used.

What was the rough split between men and women of the age 18-30?

I wasn't arguing with you, I was just asking a simple question.

If you don't know, it's okay to say that.

Don't be disingenuous. Of course you were arguing. The split is 50/50. I've already said that. Now do you understand the point about how in any group of families, large or small, women and kids will outnumber men? Which makes your "argument" that the majority male migrant trail into Europe is men going ahead of their families a bit lacking. And that's just the Syrian folks where there is a war and humanitarian crisis going on. These percentages are the same with those coming in from various countries in sub Saharan Africa and closer to home Albania.

Wibbs · 14-02-2019 2:50pm

dav3 wrote: »

I have absolutely no doubt you could continue to pull articles from the internet all day to back up your claims, just as easy as someone could pull the same amount of articles refuting your claims.

And yet you resolutely fail to produce the latter? Oh and my links on the rise of the right came from sources like the Huff post and the Guardian, so hardly "right wing" outlets.

While the far-right is currently stagnating and in decline across Europe,

You can stick your fingers in your ears all you like. It seems comforting for you, as is the case with any hardliner opinions, but maybe read and observe what's actually happening? A rise that - and this may rattle your head, as you seem to have me in the box of hard right/nazi - worries me far more than the debate around immigration.

The next time someone tries to fire bomb a refugee centre with people inside, will you be here again trying to shoehorn your politics on to the front page of after hours?

You're never too old to change.

The lack of self awareness you appear to display could be summed up by that sentence.

Boggles · 14-02-2019 2:53pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Don't be disingenuous. Of course you were arguing. The split is 50/50. I've already said that.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you have form for hyper-inflating figures to suit your narrative.

But could you link to that data, specifically in that camp, the one you claimed was roughly 50/50.

Please.

fxotoole · 14-02-2019 2:58pm

Mrsmum wrote: »

Isn't Rooskey in Leitrim.

No, it’s in Russia

GinAndBitter · 14-02-2019 3:01pm

GinAndBitter wrote: »

What's this a about an anti Irish attack? Didn't hear anything about it.

Anybody??

Wibbs · 14-02-2019 3:02pm

Boggles wrote: »

Don't take this the wrong way, but you have form for hyper-inflating figures to suit your narrative.

and you have form for ignoring the bloody obvious to suit yours.

But could you link to that data, specifically in that camp, the one you claimed was roughly 50/50.

Please.

It's been linked and referenced a few times over the last few pages, but to save you the bother. (it's a pdf)

Given that the ratio of males to females is approximately 1:1, findings indicate that males are disproportionately affected by disabilities, representing 60.8% of all individuals with disabilities across the camp, although once again this could be due to issues in reporting. This was less pronounced within children though, with more equal prevalence between the sexes. The 5-11 age group had the highest number of reported children with disabilities overall, and within each type of impairment.

The largest overall demographic is men and women between 18-35.

fxotoole · 14-02-2019 3:02pm

Robert Wolfe wrote: »

Being an asylum seeker does not automatically make you a good person.

Doesn’t automatically make you a rapist, either. Which is what people seem to be forgetting here.

4068ac1elhodqr · 14-02-2019 3:19pm

fxotoole wrote: »

Doesn’t automatically make you a rapist, either. Which is what people seem to be forgetting here.

Certainly not, but if e.g. if you take a look at Eng&Wales 2016's figures you'll find a certain ethnicity or religous group (generally from Middle-Eastern/N'African descent) are over-represented in prisons for all crimes (15% of the prison population).

For rape convictions also it's approx +300% (12%). Where as they only account for about 5% of the total overall populaiton.

So yes it's unfair to assume all have bad intentions, but on the other hand it's fair to question why this over-representation is.

Perhaps discuss whether it's an attitude to women, or Western women, is it a cultural or religous factor, is it oppression for expression within own communities, is it poverty, is it peer-pressure or gang tendencies and so on...

If they are to be successful in integration (as one would hope), the source of the causation needs to be challenged.

Galwayguy35 · 14-02-2019 3:27pm

dav3 wrote: »

I have absolutely no doubt you could continue to pull articles from the internet all day to back up your claims, just as easy as someone could pull the same amount of articles refuting your claims.
While the far-right is currently stagnating and in decline across Europe, far-right attacks are on the rise. Attacks carried out by individuals who bought into the fearmongering 4 or 5 years ago and who are now becoming more desperate as reality starts to set in. Individuals such as the ones burning down buildings in the countryside and the reason why this thread was created.
The next time someone tries to fire bomb a refugee centre with people inside, will you be here again trying to shoehorn your politics on to the front page of after hours?

You're never too old to change.

And will people on the left stop trying to tie themselves up in knots to downplay incidents like the sexual assault of over a thousand women in Cologne by migrants.

Galwayguy35 · 14-02-2019 3:37pm

tretorn wrote: »

I do feel sorry for young teenage girls who were radicalised in the UK by older men. They left thinking there were going to help fight some cause but in reality they ended up as brood mares and then couldnt get out.

One who left at fifteen is now nine months pregnant and she wants to be allowed back to the UK, if these twats were over eighteen I would say they made their bed let them lie on it but really a fifteen year old is just a child. The pregnant woman had two children already and she is only nineteen now, both these children died and this woman has probably had a terrible few years.

The problem is if the child she is carrying is male will he grow up to try and behead fellow Londoners in the streets or plant bombs on buses. This is the crux of the issue and if this child and more like him put my family at risk then I dont want him growing up anywhere in Europe.

I don't buy that for one second that she and her two friends were that gullible that they didn't know exactly what ISIS were all about, most kids already know more about the internet than their parents ever will and it's just not realistic to suggest that they hadn't googled what they were getting themselves into.

Also she has no remorse what so ever about the time she spent there saying she had no regrets, she also said that the sight of a severed head dumped in a bin didn't bother her at all.

She is 19 now and it's obvious she will never change so I think the Brits would be nuts to let her come back, hopefully the kid will be adopted when born but she should answer for any crimes she may have committed.

GinAndBitter · 14-02-2019 4:07pm

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Sure what else would the snivelling little ****s talk about?

Maybe you know what the anti Irish attack was ??

WinnyThePoo · 14-02-2019 4:10pm

GinAndBitter wrote: »

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Sure what else would the snivelling little ****s talk about?

Maybe you know what the anti Irish attack was ??

Perhaps read the op. Has all kinds of information in it.

GinAndBitter · 14-02-2019 4:12pm

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Perhaps read the op. Has all kinds of information in it.

Yeah I've read that. Makes no mention of an anti Irish attack.

Zorya · 14-02-2019 4:36pm

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Sure what else would the snivelling little ****s talk about?

Just quoting this for the record. I bet you're one of the people who goes running to moderators when someone says something you don't like, or maybe you moan about how AH has gone to hell. What a very ugly remark.

Wibbs · 14-02-2019 4:49pm

fxotoole wrote: »

Doesn’t automatically make you a rapist, either. Which is what people seem to be forgetting here.

Indeed. For me anyway the whole "rape gangs" thing is a sideline. Yes there is an over representation in certain cultural groups for a particular type of mass grooming and rape by groups of men, but it's still a tiny minority within those groups. It should be examined, particularly the aspect of how reports of this were made by witnesses and victims and it was ignored for far too long.

However the whole multicultural philosophy and how it's implemented is the wider issue for me and the extra social problems this implementation has fostered in every single European nation where this social experiment has been run, regardless of the origin(s) of the people involved.

Signs are not good that the Irish are doing it any better either. We have the zero consultation regarding asylum centres in small towns and crimes like this arson attack will continue and could get worse. We already have the early stages of ghettoisation of different populations too. And we have the stick our fingers in our ears for fear of not being seen as "correct" in our approach. Ghettoisation is a hard nut to crack. People will naturally and perfectly understandably gravitate towards their "own" and this has been seen everywhere that has migrant populations. We see little Italy's, Chinatowns, Jewish quarters, Irish areas and so on. People from Syria, Nigeria etc will follow the same course. Hell, go on holidays to the Costa Del Tack and the Brits hang out with each other, the Irish and the Germans the same, seeking out British/Irish/German pubs and whatever specific breakfasts they each eat. Human nature is bloody hard to plan and especially legislate for.

Most of all their needs to be actual open dialogue and not the partisan and fractious you're wrong!/rape gangs!/racist! ballsology that usually attends this debate. If we don't we'll be just another EU state with the same social problems running for generations to come. I'm not holding my breath for useful debate mind you

GinAndBitter · 14-02-2019 4:50pm

Zorya wrote: »

Just quoting this for the record. I bet you're one of the people who goes running to moderators when someone says something you don't like, or maybe you moan about how AH has gone to hell. What a very ugly remark.

Don't stoop to a snowflakes level, sticks and stones. He wouldn't say it to your face.

WinnyThePoo · 14-02-2019 4:52pm

Zorya wrote: »

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Sure what else would the snivelling little ****s talk about?

Just quoting this for the record. I bet you're one of the people who goes running to moderators when someone says something you don't like, or maybe you moan about how AH has gone to hell. What a very ugly remark.

I do have to laugh. Have you read the thread haha.

Edit: in fact I'd say it's the most beautiful remark I've made in after hours in some time.

pumpkin4life · 14-02-2019 5:03pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed. For me anyway the whole "rape gangs" thing is a sideline. Yes there is an over representation in certain cultural groups for a particular type of mass grooming and rape by groups of men, but it's still a tiny minority within those groups. It should be examined, particularly the aspect of how reports of this were made by witnesses and victims and it was ignored for far too long.

However the whole multicultural philosophy and how it's implemented is the wider issue for me and the extra social problems this implementation has fostered in every single European nation where this social experiment has been run, regardless of the origin(s) of the people involved.

Signs are not good that the Irish are doing it any better either. We have the zero consultation regarding asylum centres in small towns and crimes like this arson attack will continue and could get worse. We already have the early stages of ghettoisation of different populations too. And we have the stick our fingers in our ears for fear of not being seen as "correct" in our approach. Ghettoisation is a hard nut to crack. People will naturally and perfectly understandably gravitate towards their "own" and this has been seen everywhere that has migrant populations. We see little Italy's, Chinatowns, Jewish quarters, Irish areas and so on. People from Syria, Nigeria etc will follow the same course. Hell, go on holidays to the Costa Del Tack and the Brits hang out with each other, the Irish and the Germans the same, seeking out British/Irish/German pubs and whatever specific breakfasts they each eat. Human nature is bloody hard to plan and especially legislate for.

Most of all their needs to be actual open dialogue and not the partisan and fractious you're wrong!/rape gangs!/racist! ballsology that usually attends this debate. If we don't we'll be just another EU state with the same social problems running for generations to come. I'm not holding my breath for useful debate mind you

We're heading for, at its most peaceful, Ireland/Europe at large turning into Brazil.

At it's most bloody, balkanization among ethnic groups, something like Yugoslavia is possible.

This is the worst government in the history of Ireland and Varadker is the worst Taoiseach in Irish history.

A population can endure economic collapses, nutjob leftist dictators. It's much harder to recover from plantations.

WinnyThePoo · 14-02-2019 5:05pm

Hahahahahaha

Thread keeps giving.

Boggles · 14-02-2019 5:06pm

pumpkin4life wrote: »

We're heading for, at its most peaceful, Ireland/Europe at large turning into Brazil.

At it's most bloody, balkanization among ethnic groups, something like Yugoslavia is possible.

This is the worst government in the history of Ireland and Varadker is the worst Taoiseach in Irish history.

A population can endure economic collapses, nutjob leftist dictators. It's much harder to recover from plantations.

WinnyThePoo · 14-02-2019 5:06pm

Hahahahahaha

Thread keeps giving.

GinAndBitter · 14-02-2019 5:09pm

pumpkin4life wrote: »

We're heading for, at its most peaceful, Ireland/Europe at large turning into Brazil.

At it's most bloody, balkanization among ethnic groups, something like Yugoslavia is possible.

This is the worst government in the history of Ireland and Varadker is the worst Taoiseach in Irish history.

A population can endure economic collapses, nutjob leftist dictators. It's much harder to recover from plantations.

Who knows, you could be right. None of us can predict what's to come.

Wibbs · 14-02-2019 5:10pm

Fr. Hiroshima Twinkie wrote: »

In other words if, in offering mealy-mouthed condemnation of arsonists, you have to make clear that really they just have legitimate concerns and that this is actually, really the fault of these other people (who had nothing to do with the arson), you really don't want to have to condemn them. You just want to appear to, to keep up a nice public fae.

I do love how the most honourable Right On Brigade of Boards.ie love to completely misrepresent anyone who doesn't agree with them, oft to the point of outright dishonesty.

I like how you cherrypicked that line, which even on its own in no way shape or form supports such a crime, but then you leave out my next line where I say as clear as day, to anyone who isn't completely blinkered at least:

"Just in case plain English is a struggle for anyone, again I state I do not condone this attack. No excuses, no justifications. You do understand explaining why this might happen is different to excusing or justifying it? Apparently not".

I repeat:

I. Do. Not. Condone. Nor. Support. This. Attack.

Clear enough, or do I have to break out the poster paints? And you have the neck as hard as a jockey's bollocks to accuse me of being mealy-mouthed in my posting? I admire your gall at least Sir.

It's just interesting how any violence meted out to anyone supporting immigrants or asylum seekers has the same people, every time, excusing and justifying it. Because I'm sure if I was to open a thread, at random, about murder, I wouldn't see people saying the murderer had legitimate concerns or what have you. I wouldn't see most people saying 'well maybe if the victim hadn't done this or that, it wouldn't have happened'.

1) link a post where I have excused and/or justified this. Just one will suffice, or you can continue to be dishonest. Then again the pixels on your screen and a few others seem to be faulty and rearrange letters and words in posts that appear to agree with your foregone conclusion. One can only muse you're used to being agreed with, or being disagreed with by people who won't call some of your arguments as the baseless things they are. No doubt you'd prefer disagreements along the lines of "Muslamic Rayguns", but I"m afraid hereabouts you may have to up your game and back your positions with cogent arguments, links and dial back the empty rhetoric.

2) To take your earlier godwinning regarding ze Nazis and mass murder. If someone was to come along and outline - beyond your kindergarten sketch of the period - the whys and hows of how the nazis and Hitler came to power and why certain groups were targeted as enemies of the state, would that person be then accused of excusing and justifying that regime? Of course not, only a moron would make that leap and every legitimate historian of the period would be accused of it.

The language suggests it's a perfectly reasonable response to some perceived slight. All I'm saying is that no, arson isn't okay, just because you happen to agree with the people doing it.

Only in your head it suggests anything of the sort. And I don't agree with the people who did it. Just in case you missed that. Again.

You fight them, if necessary. After all, this isn't some new thing suddenly sprung, fully-formed from the aether; all we have to do is look to history to see what the far-right visited upon millions of innocent people.

If the world fought against it once, why shouldn't we fight against it again? Especially so now, when we've already seen what it does.

Censorship doesn't work, true, but neither does allowing them to spread unchecked. There's no simple solution but to remain forever vigilant. That is, as the man said, the price of freedom. You don't retain it by surrendering it to those who only want to wipe out any who don't fit within their racially or ethnically 'pure' society.

Freedom of thought and freedom of conscience, certainly, but when you start going around burning down buildings, well, it's not just "thought" any more, is it?

So in essence you have nothing to offer by way of solution beyond "fight them"? Brilliant. Well that's a plan alright.

Wibbs · 14-02-2019 5:21pm

GinAndBitter wrote: »

Who knows, you could be right. None of us can predict what's to come.

If numbers remain about the same proportions(which I suspect they will) I reckon the outcome is more along the lines of England's experiences, only smaller in scale. Small pockets of local ethnic unrest and mutual suspicion and racism and ghettoisation, almost exclusively in working class areas and a never ending blame game as background noise. Of all the people who will get it in the neck and have to navigate the future the most it'll be the second and third generation folks of immigrant parents and grandparents. Again look to our neighbour for examples of that. The vast majority of folks from the Caribbean who went to England in the 50's kept their heads down and worked hard to build lives for their families, it was their native born kids who looked around and quite understandably thought WTF and kicked off things like the Brixton and Toxteth riots.

Zorya · 14-02-2019 5:38pm

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

I do have to laugh. Have you read the thread haha.

Edit: in fact I'd say it's the most beautiful remark I've made in after hours in some time.

Well, if that is the most beautiful remark you can come up with, it would be churlish of me to deny you your pleasure in it. Noblesse oblige, et cetera

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 14-02-2019 5:53pm

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Dumbest thing I've read on this website.

Anyway, this stuff isn't a surprise.

If you're the Department of Justice and you make plans to fill a small rural area with a group of economic migrants, without telling the people of the town, completely upsetting the balance of the town population wise and just dealing with the hotel owner in question, because some gombeen who wants the money...

You think the locals are happy with that? What do you think is going to happen?

I think the lad that burned down the place is nuts, but what the Department of Justice has done is morally wrong.

Unless, these economic migrants go to Dalkey? Or Foxrock? Let's bring some diversity there, since they love it so much.

As I’ve said earlier in the thread, there are already small towns in Ireland where a good percentage of the population is made up of asylum-seekers. Apparently the populations of these towns was too big so they were disregarded, even though they are pretty darn small towns.

Does anyone know if many problems have manifested in these towns? The article on Ballaghaderreen reported some resources being stretched. I couldn’t find anything about increased crime or protests from locals in either article though. So, what will happen? What is the inevitability?

Boggles · 14-02-2019 6:56pm

Wibbs wrote: »

If numbers remain about the same proportions(which I suspect they will) I reckon the outcome is more along the lines of England's experiences, only smaller in scale. Small pockets of local ethnic unrest and mutual suspicion and racism and ghettoisation, almost exclusively in working class areas and a never ending blame game as background noise. Of all the people who will get it in the neck and have to navigate the future the most it'll be the second and third generation folks of immigrant parents and grandparents. Again look to our neighbour for examples of that. The vast majority of folks from the Caribbean who went to England in the 50's kept their heads down and worked hard to build lives for their families, it was their native born kids who looked around and quite understandably thought WTF and kicked off things like the Brixton and Toxteth riots.

Too much of a stretch to suggest what happened in England could be a future blueprint for a country like Ireland. The historical differences alone are stark.

But there is definitely lessons to be learned.

The first and most pertinent is that hate crimes directed at minorities especially the most vulnerable can not be tolerated under any circumstance.

It's why it's very important that the racist criminal prick who tried to burn down the hotel needs to be caught and made an example of.

Odhinn · 14-02-2019 7:05pm

pumpkin4life wrote: »

We're heading for, at its most peaceful, Ireland/Europe at large turning into Brazil.

.

Suffocating heat, a fixation with large asses and far too many insects?

GinAndBitter · 14-02-2019 7:08pm

Boggles wrote: »

Too much of a stretch to suggest what happened in England could be a future blueprint for a country like Ireland. The historical differences alone are stark.

I think for some on here, Ireland getting the same problems as England with the Muslim rape gangs is a price worth paying.

Kivaro · 14-02-2019 8:10pm

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Sure what else would the snivelling little ****s talk about?

It obviously irritates you greatly that a discussion on the Irish haphazard asylum system is happening here.
Rational-minded people on either side of a topic do not mind having an open and frank debate, and it pleases me that it bothers you so much.

Incident at Roscommon hotel (asylum seekers)

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