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The Hazards of Belief

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    #9122
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,719 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Gotta love those fundie xtians, making the planet smarter just by removing themselves from the gene pool ;)

    A firm contender for a Darwin award for sure.


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    #9123
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,012 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    "Four men have been held over the killing of an Indian police officer in mob violence that erupted after rumours spread that cows had been slaughtered.
    Subodh Kumar Singh was killed as police clashed with right-wing Hindu groups which said police failed to halt the killing of cows in Uttar Pradesh state.
    Cows are considered holy by India's majority Hindu population and many states have now banned cow slaughter."


    "Many states, including Uttar Pradesh, have actively started enforcing bans on cow slaughter after the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) formed India's federal government in 2014."
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-46436569


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    #9124
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Giulia Grillo, the Minister of Health in the populist-led Italian government, has fired all thirty expert members of the country's Higher Health Council, which provides expert medical opinion to the Italian government, in order to "give space to the new".

    Ms Grillo holds, for example, a variety of views on the efficacy of vaccines having, earlier this year, removed the necessity to vaccinate children, then rapidly reversing her position when the new school year saw a measles epidemic strike Italian schools.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/04/politically-motivated-italys-m5s-sacks-peak-board-of-health-experts
    https://www.newsweek.com/anti-vaccine-italian-government-sacks-entire-health-expert-board-1242759


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    #9125
    Obi_Wan_Kenobi
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭Obi_Wan_Kenobi


    Odhinn wrote: »
    "Four men have been held over the killing of an Indian police officer in mob violence that erupted after rumours spread that cows had been slaughtered.
    Subodh Kumar Singh was killed as police clashed with right-wing Hindu groups which said police failed to halt the killing of cows in Uttar Pradesh state.
    Cows are considered holy by India's majority Hindu population and many states have now banned cow slaughter."


    "Many states, including Uttar Pradesh, have actively started enforcing bans on cow slaughter after the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) formed India's federal government in 2014."
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-46436569

    A much bigger hazard in India
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus

    - But I'm sure you won't thank this post.
    That persecution/hate is just dandy isn't it ?


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    #9126
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,719 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Obi_Wan_Kenobi wrote: »
    A much bigger hazard in India
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus

    - But I'm sure you won't thank this post.
    That persecution/hate is just dandy isn't it ?

    Type persecution of <x> into t'internet where <x> represents any sufficiently large population, and you get the same thing

    Persecution of Muslims
    Persecution of Christians
    Persecution of atheists

    What you're actually looking at is persecution of any minority by a majority, quite often a religious majority or racial majority who feel justified in their barbarism. Who'd be a hater?


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    #9127
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Obi_Wan_Kenobi wrote: »
    That persecution/hate is just dandy isn't it ?

    Why would persecution of anyone be just dandy?


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    #9128
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,012 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Obi_Wan_Kenobi wrote: »
    A much bigger hazard in India
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus

    - But I'm sure you won't thank this post.
    That persecution/hate is just dandy isn't it ?




    ...what are you on about?


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    #9129
    Obi_Wan_Kenobi
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭Obi_Wan_Kenobi


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6471059/Irish-lecturer-stabbed-death-Paris-insulted-Mohammed-says-Pakistani-killer.html

    That poor man in Paris, killed because he insulted a fairytale prophet.
    Irish lecturer stabbed to death in Paris had 'insulted the Prophet Mohammed', says his Pakistani killer
    John Dowling, 66, stabbed to death outside the Leonardo de Vinci university
    Ali R., 37, was arrested at the scene and has admitted to killing the Irish lecturer
    The Pakistani national claims Dowling had ‘insulted the Prophet Mohammed'
    He also confessed he held a personal grudge against Dowling for failing him


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    #9130
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,022 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    All gods and prophets are fictional (well, prophets existed I suppose but their belief that they were a messenger of a god were deluded)

    You trying to make out that some deluded belief is better than another? It isn't, and deluded belivers in religion A will be assholes towards believers in religion B. Substitute any value of A and any value of B. A is taught from the cradle to hate B. And some still think religion makes people better people?

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #9131
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    All gods and prophets are fictional (well, prophets existed I suppose but their belief that they were a messenger of a god were deluded)

    You trying to make out that some deluded belief is better than another? It isn't, and deluded belivers in religion A will be assholes towards believers in religion B. Substitute any value of A and any value of B. A is taught from the cradle to hate B. And some still think religion makes people better people?

    that would have to be true, how could it not be? different beliefs lead to different actions

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #9132
    TomSweeney
    Registered Users Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    All gods and prophets are fictional (well, prophets existed I suppose but their belief that they were a messenger of a god were deluded)

    You trying to make out that some deluded belief is better than another? It isn't, and deluded belivers in religion A will be assholes towards believers in religion B. Substitute any value of A and any value of B. A is taught from the cradle to hate B. And some still think religion makes people better people?


    eh .. how is he trying to make that out ??
    The story is a hazard of belief - that's it ... he was stabbed from a religious motive .... thats it!

    But I guess putting a false narrative - it's a nice way so you don't need to thank the post.
    Imagine if he had been killed by some christian nutter ? - the post would have 20 thanks by now .... carry on "intellectuals" ...


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    #9133
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,719 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    TomSweeney wrote: »
    eh .. how is he trying to make that out ??
    The story is a hazard of belief - that's it ... he was stabbed from a religious motive .... thats it!

    Not really though, is it? From the previous post;
    The Pakistani national claims Dowling had ‘insulted the Prophet Mohammed' He also confessed he held a personal grudge against Dowling for failing him

    Looking a little deeper we see from the Irish Times
    Pascal Brouaye, the director of the university, told journalists at an impromptu press conference a few metres from the scene that the Pakistani student had been extremely unhappy when he was told that regulations prevented him repeating the year and that he had to leave the university.

    and that the full quote from the original article was
    Now Ali R. – the Pakistani national under arrest for the killing – has confessed that he held a personal grudge against the teacher after failing his exams last year, and particularly hated Mr Dowling.
    But I guess putting a false narrative - it's a nice way so you don't need to thank the post.
    Imagine if he had been killed by some christian nutter ? - the post would have 20 thanks by now .... carry on "intellectuals" ...

    Seems to me that religion wasn't the primary motive at all, but hey, don't let that interfere with your own anti-islamic narrative now will you. :rolleyes:


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    #9134
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    smacl wrote: »
    Seems to me that religion wasn't the primary motive at all, but hey, don't let that interfere with your own anti-islamic narrative now will you.
    There's two motives here. One is that Prof Dowling "failed the student" and the other is that he insulted Islam.
    Now given that loads of students fail their exams, and it's normally the students own fault, the first is not a great motive.
    And given that Pakistanis are known to get very upset about blasphemers and regularly kill them, the second motive would appear to be more significant.
    In reality the guy would have mixed the two motives together in his head. He would have used the blasphemy thing to justify the morality of the murder, in his own mind.


    But as usual, SMACL seeks to deflect and to justify. He will do anything to excuse the despicable behaviour that stems from Islamic ideologies, and instead he prefers to continue lambasting the "racists" and the "Islamophobes".


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    #9135
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,719 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    recedite wrote: »
    There's two motives here. One is that Prof Dowling "failed the student" and the other is that he insulted Islam.
    Now given that loads of students fail their exams, and it's normally the students own fault, the first is not a great motive.
    And given that Pakistanis are known to get very upset about blasphemers and regularly kill them, the second motive would appear to be more significant.
    In reality the guy would have mixed the two motives together in his head. He would have used the blasphemy thing to justify the morality of the murder, in his own mind.


    But as usual, SMACL seeks to deflect and to justify. He will do anything to excuse the despicable behaviour that stems from Islamic ideologies, and instead he prefers to continue lambasting the "racists" and the "Islamophobes".

    Rubbish. If you look at the many hundreds of school shootings in recent years, you see a very large proportion are committed by unhappy or disaffected students and ex-students and a notable absence due to angry Pakistanis getting upset about Islam being insulted. If you wanted to pick on killers of school children and teachers by nominal religion, Christians lead by a few orders of magnitude. The number of U.S. students killed in school shootings so far this year is greater than the number of U.S. military personnel who have been killed in combat operations (Source). But hey, those Muslims, real psychos huh Rec?


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    #9136
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    What have school shootings in the USA got to do with this?
    An Irish professor in France was stabbed in the chest and had his throat cut. It all seems a bit halal.


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    #9137
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,719 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    recedite wrote: »
    What have school shootings in the USA got to do with this?

    1: Students, from your post, go to schools and colleges.
    recedite wrote: »
    Now given that loads of students fail their exams, and it's normally the students own fault, the first is not a great motive.

    2: Search for school killings and you get campus shootings in the US, which is where the vast bulk of fatalities and serious injuries of this type occur.
    An Irish professor in France was stabbed in the chest, by his ex student, and had his throat cut.

    FYP.
    It all seems a bit halal.

    Strange place to find humour. Takes all kinds.


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    #9138
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    smacl wrote: »
    Strange place to find humour. Takes all kinds.
    I'm not laughing, are you?

    I suppose you're going to say there is nothing at all about the method of killing that seems in any way connected with Islam, or any previous Islamic killings, or Islamic ritual slaughter.

    And instead, you just deflect to American gun crime.


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    #9139
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,719 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    recedite wrote: »
    I'm not laughing, are you?

    I suppose you're going to say there is nothing at all about the method of killing that seems in any way connected with Islam, or any previous Islamic killings, or Islamic ritual slaughter.

    And instead, you just deflect to American gun crime.

    So now it is a ritual killing? Seriously Rec? I assume you're able cite a bit of background on Islamic ritual slaughter as applied to people rather than food preparation to support your entirely bizarre statement above. Because there are no shortage of cases of pissed of students attacking teachers they despise, but I can't see any that involve killing them via Islamic ritual slaughter.


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    #9140
    TomSweeney
    Registered Users Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    Pathetic, desperately trying to find any defence.


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    #9141
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    recedite wrote: »
    An Irish professor in France was stabbed in the chest and had his throat cut. It all seems a bit halal.

    He was stabbed several times in the chest and throat. If he had been stabbed by a non-Muslim, it would have been obvious that when you're stabbing someone who's facing you, the chest and throat are likely targets. But when it's a Muslim doing the stabbing, suddenly the victim "had his throat cut" and it's presented as "halal" and "ritual".

    But I'm sure that has nothing whatsoever to do with prejudice.


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    #9142
    TomSweeney
    Registered Users Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/1071155543769669633


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    #9143
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,022 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I'm not sure what your point is, is there anyone on this forum who doesn't think that sharia law is abhorrent?

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #9144
    TomSweeney
    Registered Users Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    I'm not sure what your point is, is there anyone on this forum who doesn't think that sharia law is abhorrent?


    no point - apart from this threads purpose - it is one of the many hazards of belief though yeah ?

    Will we split hairs ?


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    #9145
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,022 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    TomSweeney wrote: »
    no point - apart from this threads purpose - it is one of the many hazards of belief though yeah ?

    Will we split hairs ?

    Not you, but another recent recruit to this forum seems to think Hinduism is great and all other religions are bad.

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #9146
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,844 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    I'm not sure what your point is, is there anyone on this forum who doesn't think that sharia law is abhorrent?

    I can imagine a few are fans of the white flavour that sprouted out of the darkest depths of the Internet.


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    #9147
    TomSweeney
    Registered Users Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    Poor lad



    https://www.bbc.com/news/46548994

    A monk meditating in a forest in the Indian state of Maharashtra has died in a leopard attack, officials say.

    Rahul Walke had been "meditating under a tree" in the Tadoba forest, which is a protected tiger reserve, officials told PTI news agency.

    Walke had been attached to a Buddhist temple which is inside the forest, but he had walked to a spot quite far away from it to meditate.


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    #9148
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    TomSweeney wrote: »
    A monk meditating in a forest in the Indian state of Maharashtra has died in a leopard attack, officials say.
    Rahul Walke had been "meditating under a tree" in the Tadoba forest


    In fairness, we all have to go somehow, and this would look good on a headstone.


    "Here lies Zube, killed by a leopard while meditating beneath a tree".


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    #9149
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Killed by a tiger would have looked better.
    I reckon I'd have a fair chance of fighting off a leopard, but then I'm not a vegan buddhist monk.


    Still, it could have been worse; "Killed by a Honey badger" or "Hunted down by a sloth".

    The Tadoba reserve is home to an estimated 88 tigers. It is also home to a large variety of other animals, including leopards, sloth bears, hyenas and honey badgers.


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    #9150
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,719 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    recedite wrote: »
    Still, it could have been worse; "Killed by a Honey badger"

    I'm guessing you haven't seen a honey badger in action. Here's one getting attacked by a bunch of lions;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvlalDNxccw


    As for fighting off a leopard, unless you were armed, I wouldn't much fancy your odds there either.


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    #9151
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,022 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Catholic Archbishop: If Your Religion Contradicts the Law, Ignore the Law

    Allahu Akbar! Kill the infidel! It's only a law, right?

    Life ain't always empty.



This discussion has been closed.
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