DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

brownbinman · 27-09-2018 9:12am

Morning all

It's taken me few weeks to write this but have bad news. My legs went again 3 weeks ago, shins again. I'm fairly gutted but again, like last year these things happen.

I did the FD10m and my next run I felt them go. Unlike last year I didn't run again on them but the pain was there. I knew immediately what had happened.

To be honest I wasn't surprised. With house being renovated, baby on the way, heavy workload and other crap going on something had to give.

I had considered just giving it a go but I really want to do it right. I won't be signing up next year as baby will be here please god so will give it a while.

Finally, it's been a pleasure reading how everyone is getting on and I want to wish you all the VERY best of luck

coogy · 27-09-2018 9:16am

brownbinman wrote: »

Morning all

It's taken me few weeks to write this but have bad news. My legs went again 3 weeks ago, shins again. I'm fairly gutted but again, like last year these things happen.

I did the FD10m and my next run I felt them go. Unlike last year I didn't run again on them but the pain was there. I knew immediately what had happened.

To be honest I wasn't surprised. With house being renovated, baby on the way, heavy workload and other crap going on something had to give.

I had considered just giving it a go but I really want to do it right. I won't be signing up next year as baby will be here please god so will give it a while.

Finally, it's been a pleasure reading how everyone is getting on and I want to wish you all the VERY best of luck

Hey sorry to hear that but you've probably made the right decision, all considered.
Best of luck with the new arrival and looking forward to seeing you back in the parish next year!!

kittyclaws · 27-09-2018 9:17am

Singer wrote: »

FWIW, last year I used Shot Bloks, Gu gels (with caffeine) and some of the Lucozade supplied on DCM. I knew I was fine with any of them, but having a choice of methods of getting sugar into me seemed to make it a little easier than cramming the same thing down repeatedly. Don't try this for the first time on the day though

I'm used to taking clif blocs but would like to add in caffeine gels - how many would you take in the marathon?
This is my last weekend to get my fuelling correct - at the mo I'm fuelling my long runs on a pack of the clif blocs and a chopped up mars bar but I think a caffeine hit would help too!

incentsitive · 27-09-2018 9:17am

Sorry to hear about the 2 injuries above, I know how gutting it is. I wish you both a speedy recovery and brownbinman a safe delivery of the future Gebreselassie!

kittyclaws · 27-09-2018 9:19am

brownbinman wrote: »

Morning all

It's taken me few weeks to write this but have bad news. My legs went again 3 weeks ago, shins again. I'm fairly gutted but again, like last year these things happen.

I'm sorry to read this, that's awful news so close - but at least you've the sense to know not to push on and ruin your first marathon experience.
Feel better soon

Singer · 27-09-2018 9:29am

kittyclaws wrote: »

I'm used to taking clif blocs but would like to add in caffeine gels - how many would you take in the marathon?
This is my last weekend to get my fuelling correct - at the mo I'm fuelling my long runs on a pack of the clif blocs and a chopped up mars bar but I think a caffeine hit would help too!

I think I had two with caffeine last year. I drink 2-3 cups of coffee a day so all it probably did for me was avoid caffeine withdrawal headaches

Definitely try them out before the day, caffeine can cause stomach woes even without gels. Another way to get caffeine in could be to try caffeine tablets that are available in all good pharmacies.

aloooof · 27-09-2018 9:36am

Griff75 wrote: »

Looks like I’m gone guys. After everything going so well so far I headed out this morning before dawn for the 8 mile run. Tripped and fell about 20 minutes in and couldn’t continue. One x-ray later I have a hairline fracture in my big toe and have it splinted and booted for a week and appointment with orthopaedic consultant then but more than likely 4-6 weeks off. Gutted

brownbinman wrote: »

Morning all

It's taken me few weeks to write this but have bad news. My legs went again 3 weeks ago, shins again. I'm fairly gutted but again, like last year these things happen.

I did the FD10m and my next run I felt them go. Unlike last year I didn't run again on them but the pain was there. I knew immediately what had happened.

To be honest I wasn't surprised. With house being renovated, baby on the way, heavy workload and other crap going on something had to give.

I had considered just giving it a go but I really want to do it right. I won't be signing up next year as baby will be here please god so will give it a while.

Finally, it's been a pleasure reading how everyone is getting on and I want to wish you all the VERY best of luck

Sorry to hear both of these, it sucks having come so close. As they say, it's a marathon not a sprint, so i'm sure you'll both get to tick the marathon box down the line, and it'll mean all the more after the setbacks.

ariana` · 27-09-2018 10:00am

Griff75 wrote: »

Looks like I’m gone guys. After everything going so well so far I headed out this morning before dawn for the 8 mile run. Tripped and fell about 20 minutes in and couldn’t continue. One x-ray later I have a hairline fracture in my big toe and have it splinted and booted for a week and appointment with orthopaedic consultant then but more than likely 4-6 weeks off. Gutted

I'm so sorry to hear this Griff. It's very bad luck. I hope you have a quick recovery. The training you've done is already banked so hopefully you can pick another event once you have recovered and get going again. Mind yourself and don't be stranger - let us know how you get on with the cons.

skyblue46 wrote: »

I am just totally bamboozled by this whole rush to use tailwind! :pac:

Me too. Just reading all the posts about people trying to figure out how to use it puts me off but i suppose if it works and other things don't then it's worth the effort.

Singer wrote: »

I agree that the tailwind meme has gone a bit off the rails. Fueling on a marathon should be as simple and foolproof as possible. Mixing powder during a race or carrying around a lot of liquid on you from the start both sound like last resorts. Tailwind seems well suited for trail runners or when running a looped ultra or something, not something that's that practical for a big city marathon. Exception I guess here would be for folks expecting to be on their feet for a relatively long amount of time (5+ hours?), as fuelling becomes a bigger deal and slowing down to mix the stuff up isn't as impactful to the overall time.

FWIW, last year I used Shot Bloks, Gu gels (with caffeine) and some of the Lucozade supplied on DCM. I knew I was fine with any of them, but having a choice of methods of getting sugar into me seemed to make it a little easier than cramming the same thing down repeatedly. Don't try this for the first time on the day though

This is exactly what works for me. I have no problem tolerating gels but i get so sick of them after a few. Last year on the day i took a mini bar off a supporter at one point and chocolate never tasted so good in all my life - heaven! Likewise a mouthful of lucozade hit the spot. And practice is the important part for everyone - on my long runs i have used gels, jelly babies and the big treat - a mini mars bar

brownbinman wrote: »

Morning all

It's taken me few weeks to write this but have bad news. My legs went again 3 weeks ago, shins again. I'm fairly gutted but again, like last year these things happen.

I did the FD10m and my next run I felt them go. Unlike last year I didn't run again on them but the pain was there. I knew immediately what had happened.

To be honest I wasn't surprised. With house being renovated, baby on the way, heavy workload and other crap going on something had to give.

I had considered just giving it a go but I really want to do it right. I won't be signing up next year as baby will be here please god so will give it a while.

Finally, it's been a pleasure reading how everyone is getting on and I want to wish you all the VERY best of luck

brownbinman I'm so sorry to hear this. It is really tough luck.The experience you have already gained of marathon training will stand to you when you give it a go again in the future. Best of luck with the impending arrival - it's such an exciting time!

ReeReeG · 27-09-2018 10:07am

brownbinman wrote: »

Morning all

It's taken me few weeks to write this but have bad news. My legs went again 3 weeks ago, shins again. I'm fairly gutted but again, like last year these things happen.

I did the FD10m and my next run I felt them go. Unlike last year I didn't run again on them but the pain was there. I knew immediately what had happened.

To be honest I wasn't surprised. With house being renovated, baby on the way, heavy workload and other crap going on something had to give.

I had considered just giving it a go but I really want to do it right. I won't be signing up next year as baby will be here please god so will give it a while.

Finally, it's been a pleasure reading how everyone is getting on and I want to wish you all the VERY best of luck

Really sorry to hear this brownbinman, that's rotten luck.
I imagine the distraction of the new arrival will clear up the disappointment quite quickly though, best of luck

imknackered · 27-09-2018 11:15am

brownbinman wrote: »

Morning all

It's taken me few weeks to write this but have bad news. My legs went again 3 weeks ago, shins again. I'm fairly gutted but again, like last year these things happen.

Sorry to hear your news, I have had two experiences with injuries in marathons, in '07 i ran injured and needed a procedure on me knee and couldnt run for over a year. In '15 i dropped out a month before with an ankle injury and once i recovered and got back running even stronger afterwards.

from this experience i definitely think you are doing the right thing.

all the best with the baby coming

Murph_D · 27-09-2018 12:08pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

I am just totally bamboozled by this whole rush to use tailwind! :pac:

Totally agree with this.

Mixing strategies, straws, sticky tape, special bum bags, hidden bottles on the course... It all seems too complicated, especially in a debut marathon where you have plenty of other more important things to be thinking about.

My advice would be to keep it simple, folks!

coogy · 27-09-2018 12:16pm

Murph_D wrote: »

Totally agree with this.

Mixing strategies, straws, sticky tape, special bum bags, hidden bottles on the course... It all seems to complicated, especially in a debut marathon where you have plenty of other more important things to be thinking about.

My advice would be to keep it simple, folks!

Agreed!! Have settled on a no-fuss, straight-down-the middle approach.

God almighty, this marathon........

Hedgehoggy · 27-09-2018 12:19pm

kittyclaws wrote: »

I'm used to taking clif blocs but would like to add in caffeine gels - how many would you take in the marathon?
This is my last weekend to get my fuelling correct - at the mo I'm fuelling my long runs on a pack of the clif blocs and a chopped up mars bar but I think a caffeine hit would help too!

I've tried out the caffeine clif blocs - I used them last - so used the normal chews first then the caffeine chews for my last fuel source - dont know if noticed any diff to be honest - but that's what I'm planning to do on the day!

ariana` · 27-09-2018 1:20pm

I found this interesting article. This guy did a study of mid-level runners half marathon times in comparison to their full marathon times, where the HM was run 6-8 weeks prior to the full and came to the conclusion that mid-level runners should expect their full marathon time to be 55 secs/mile slower than their HM time (35 seconds/km).

The baseline conclusion that can be drawn is that a mid level runner should expect their marathon pace to be approximately 55 seconds slower than their half marathon pace. The fact that I focused on the 3:40 – 4:20 marathoner might cause some to suggest that the runners in this study were probably not adequately prepared to run the full marathon. However, I used the most relevant set of data I could find: real runners, running real races with actual results.

He includes a table (about three quarters of the way into the article) which shows a number of HM times (1:44-1:58) with the corresponding Project Marathon time based on his research, and the Projected Marathon time based on McMillan.

It may seem very conservative and maybe it is too conservative but it is a nice reminder of what we've been saying here for the last number of weeks, that most popular calculators (such as McMillan) are very optimistic especially for novice marathoners.

Another quote from the article, which we can't emphasis enough

In the middle of a marathon when you might realize you went out too fast it’s very tough to then just adjust to a new, more reasonable pace. The damage is already done and you will end up running slower, much slower. If you significantly outrun your potential during the early miles, it’s very difficult to avoid a painfully slow experience during the final miles. As far as your ending time is concerned, the seconds saved running too fast at the beginning of a race, will not be enough to balance out the eventual slow down at the end.

He concludes by saying this

There were 15% of the runners in my research who had marathon times equal to, or better than the projections from calculators. You might be one of those 15% but then again, you might be in the bottom 15% and should add ninety seconds to your pace.

eyrie · 27-09-2018 1:47pm

Very interesting ariana, thanks! That's much more in line with what I've been thinking/planning myself too. If the reality on the day ends up being only 55 secs/mile slower than my HM I'll be very happy indeed!

aloooof · 27-09-2018 1:49pm

Very interesting ariana, and maps almost exactly to what I'm hoping to run. Did the Half in 1:58:06, which is 9:01 pace. I'm hoping to go sub 4:20 which would be 9:58 pace. It's making me think it might be achievable!

ReeReeG · 27-09-2018 2:08pm

ariana` wrote: »

In the middle of a marathon when you might realize you went out too fast it’s very tough to then just adjust to a new, more reasonable pace. The damage is already done and you will end up running slower, much slower. If you significantly outrun your potential during the early miles, it’s very difficult to avoid a painfully slow experience during the final miles. As far as your ending time is concerned, the seconds saved running too fast at the beginning of a race, will not be enough to balance out the eventual slow down at the end.

Are you trying to put us off the marathon?! :P

eyrie · 27-09-2018 2:19pm

ReeReeG wrote: »

Are you trying to put us off the marathon?! :P

We could just all meet up and go straight to the pub on the 28th instead? Save ourselves an awful lot of hassle!

ReeReeG · 27-09-2018 2:24pm

eyrie wrote: »

We could just all meet up and go straight to the pub on the 28th instead? Save ourselves an awful lot of hassle!

I actually think I'd be less able for a drinkathon than a marathon, scarily enough... the difference between my 20s and 30s eh?!

ariana` · 27-09-2018 2:28pm

ReeReeG wrote: »

Are you trying to put us off the marathon?! :P

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

No believe it or not, i'm just trying to deter any "kipchoge" wannabes :P

ReeReeG wrote: »

I actually think I'd be less able for a drinkathon than a marathon, scarily enough... the difference between my 20s and 30s eh?!

Try being in your 40s :rolleyes:

Mr. Guappa · 27-09-2018 2:34pm

ariana` wrote: »

There were 15% of the runners in my research who had marathon times equal to, or better than the projections from calculators. You might be one of those 15% but then again, you might be in the bottom 15% and should add ninety seconds to your pace.

Is this group not more likely to fall into the better performing 15%, given that we will be more prepared than most other casual-level marathoners?

*I ask this as someone still clinging to the sub 4 dream based of a 1:54 half

coogy · 27-09-2018 2:36pm

ariana` wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

No believe it or not, i'm just trying to deter any "kipchoge" wannabes :P

Try being in your 40s :rolleyes:

Worse still, the wrong side of 40.......:(

Applegirl26 · 27-09-2018 2:40pm

So sorry to hear about the two injuries above.
Brownbinman I had wondered where you went. Best of luck with the new arrival.

eyrie · 27-09-2018 2:42pm

ReeReeG wrote: »

I actually think I'd be less able for a drinkathon than a marathon, scarily enough... the difference between my 20s and 30s eh?!

Ha, actually I agree. Particularly when combined with running a lot - it only takes a whiff of alcohol now for me to start feeling it.

On a slightly more serious but related note actually, what's the thinking on abstaining from alcohol before the marathon? I'm not a big drinker by any means, but do people generally cut it out completely for the month prior, say? I'm assuming it's a matter of personal preference but I'm curious!

coogy · 27-09-2018 2:45pm

eyrie wrote: »

Ha, actually I agree. Particularly when combined with running a lot - it only takes a whiff of alcohol now for me to start feeling it.

On a slightly more serious but related note actually, what's the thinking on abstaining from alcohol before the marathon? I'm not a big drinker by any means, but do people generally cut it out completely for the month prior, say? I'm assuming it's a matter of personal preference but I'm curious!

I'm not a big drinker either. Since training began, I reckon I could count the number of alcoholic drinks I've had on the fingers of one hand.
That's more to do with not wanting anything to interfere with training as I am prone to hangovers even after a couple of drinks!!

ReeReeG · 27-09-2018 3:03pm

eyrie wrote: »

On a slightly more serious but related note actually, what's the thinking on abstaining from alcohol before the marathon? I'm not a big drinker by any means, but do people generally cut it out completely for the month prior, say? I'm assuming it's a matter of personal preference but I'm curious!

I did for Limerick as even though I am not a big drinker either, I did notice a difference in how I felt in training even with a couple of drinks, particularly if beer. As a result, I actually rarely have a beer now, more the G&Ts as they're lighter in my tummy! Let's not forget the tonic is an anti-inflammatory either

Interestingly, I noticed I got PBs in race weeks where I had one or two drinks during the week... ! Relaxant perhaps?!

skyblue46 · 27-09-2018 3:12pm

coogy wrote: »

Worse still, the wrong side of 40.......:(

Or the wrong side of 50! :-((

OOnegative · 27-09-2018 3:20pm

McGrattan’s is MANDATORY for Novices after DCM, it’s where ye get the mentors drunk!!!

Murph_D · 27-09-2018 3:40pm

OOnegative wrote: »

McGrattan’s is MANDATORY for Novices after DCM, it’s where ye get the mentors drunk!!!

And the pacers.

aloooof · 27-09-2018 3:46pm

ReeReeG wrote: »

I actually think I'd be less able for a drinkathon than a marathon, scarily enough... the difference between my 20s and 30s eh?!

If the after effects of a marathon are anywhere near as bad as the hangovers I tend to get these days, I'm beginning to have second thoughts about DCM! :pac:

DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

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