How to deal with weddings/funerals

I go along, kneel, sit, stand when everybody else does. I don't say any of the prayers simpyl because I don't know the words. At my father's funeral, I even did a reading, talking about the word of the Lord or whatever it was.

Everybody in my family and plenty of my friends know I don't believe in anything, some of them are the same, we all just go along with it all.

I just wait for it to be over and think about other things...I'd guess most other people in the church, however they describe their religion or lack thereof, are doing the same thing.

Obviously though, 'going along with it' causes you more internal conflict than me.

AllForIt wrote: »

As I get older I feel more and more uncomfortable about attending Catholic church services - weddings and funerals of course.

Last year I attended a family funeral (not intimidate family, a relative) and I felt like a right lemon muttering along to responses etc. As I reach middle age and my older family relatives are beginning to pass away - I don't think I can attend any more catholic funerals, and I think now I should consider ways to deal with them differently.

I was thinking the following - in the case of a funeral - just turn up at the burial service and skip the church service. In the case of a wedding - skip the church service and go to the reception. Or maybe attend the church service and sit at the back seat of the church so not everyone would notice I'm not participating - standing up/keeling down/praying etc. Another option would be don't go at all and express my sympathies in some other way - but this would be awkward for family funerals.

I was wondering if anyone feels the same way and how do you deal with these situations. If there has been any similar threads on this I'd apprentice a link as I realise this subject has prolly been discussed here before.

Funny. As I get older I worry less about that stuff...

Swanner wrote: »

Plenty of people have non religious funerals. If it’s a big enough deal to someone they’ll make sure it’s known to their nearest and dearest. A lot of people also like the “insurance” of having a religious ceremony. Even those who’ve claimed to be atheists while alive. I’ve been at a couple of those.

But the OP in this thread strikes me as worrying far too much about what everyone else is thinking. No one cares that your atheist and no one cares that you don’t take communion, no one cares that you don’t know the prayers, no one even cares whether you kneel or not.

I’m not atheist but I grew up surrounded by religion and I saw through it from my early childhood. I hate going near churches for no other reason then I get incredibly bored but if someone is good enough to invite me to a special occasion in their lives or if someone has passed on, I’ll go out of respect.

There’s no need at all for any dramatics though. Sit down the back, stay out of the way and pay your respects how you see fit. If mumbling along makes you feel better then do it but again, those around you couldn’t give a ****e. It can be slightly awkward at proddy stuff where everyone loves to sing but again, stop worrying about everyone else and just do your thing.

Maybe I’ve just been incredibly lucky but in 35 years of not actively participating in church, I’ve never once had an issue in any church, any denomination, anywhere, ever.

I think it's very unfair on the OP to assume they're being dramatic or that they're worrying too much or that no-one cares that they're atheist. People do care, and the OP is aware of people in their life who do care about these things and do judge people negatively on that basis. It should be understandable that they would be nervous or feel intimidated by something they have very little experience of and aren't sure what to expect.

Some of us have been incredibly lucky, and some of us haven't, based upon whether the majority of our experiences have either been positive or negative, and when someone has very little experience either way, and has little idea of what to expect, it really should be understandable that they'd be nervous about it.

I didn't know what to expect the first time I was invited to attend a Pentecostal service, I'd an idea of their beliefs, I'd an idea about the services they have in the US, but I had no idea whether an African service would be anything like it. Turned out I kinda liked the whole gig and had a word with my priest about incorporating some of the ideas into the mass to jazz things up a bit and get a congregation that's often pretty lifeless interested in the mass. All too often times they look like they're bored off their tits, and some of them are out with their mobile phones or simply appear to have no interest in why they're there.

The OP asked the question because they don't know what to expect. Nobody can really tell them what to expect because we simply don't know, but each of us would have an idea from our own experiences what the OP might want to be prepared for, and I think that's all they were asking for, with the intention of avoiding any drama created by other people.

In nearly all Christian denominations, public worship is, well, public. All are welcome; attending does not imply any kind of faith in the religion, or participation in its practices. And this is doubly true of events like weddings, funerals and baptisms.

So, if you think everyone around you is noting the fact that you are unfamiliar with the rituals and/or unwilling to participate in them, they are almost certainly not. This is your own self-consciousness at work. The rest of the congregation are not thinking about you, and certainly not passing judgments about you.

Of course - and this, I think, may be the real problem - your Mammy may be. Or your grumpy uncle, or a great-aunt. Or, at any rate, someone who knows you, and who is upset at, or made to feel insecure by, your rejection of what they may see as the family tradition of faith.

You know your Mammy, your uncle and your great-aunt better than we do, so only you can decide if this is an issue that affects you and, if so, how big an issue it is. How to deal with it? There isn't really a one-size-fits-all solution, I think; family dynamics are very varied. But I think the bottom line has to be that their upset or their insecurity is their issue; don't let your internal Mammy/grumpy uncle/great-aunt make it your issue. If you feel that the wedding/funeral/baptism is an event that you should participate in, then go; do not be embarrassed to participate in it. Do not feel obliged to do anything you are uncomfortable with (kneeling, offering prayers, whatever) and pay no attention to anyone who you think may be giving you the hairy eyeball over this. You thinking this may reflect your own insecurity, if in fact it isn't happening, or it may reflect theirs, if in fact it is, but either way I think the best thing you can do is note the feeling and then let it pass. And of course resist any temptation to express your own negative judgments, by word, gesture or simmering air of resentment, about the nature of the event or the way in which others participate in it. You're there because you want to be there, remember.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Religious families can't be trusted to carry those wishes through, however.

True although from my own experience, where the deceased has left clear instructions for a non religious funeral / burial, those wishes have been granted. I'm sure there are families who may push ahead with their own plans regardless but I would imagine it's the exception rather then the rule.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Ah please, not the deathbed conversion fallacy again.

It's not a fallacy. It's human nature to hedge our bets. Not every atheist is a militant one. Many proclaim the title while actually being agnostic and are more then happy to have the insurance of a religious burial.

As for death bed conversions, my father was a clergy man and and attended many of them. I get that they don't suit your narrative but they happen whether you like it or not. We humans are fickle creatures at the end of the day.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Atheism and religion are not opposites. You can be an atheist and practice a non-theistic religion (e.g. buddhism) or neither - a person with a belief but not a member of an organised religion.

But if you have no belief in a theistic god or gods then by definition you're an atheist, whether you like the word or not.

I'm not sure I get your point. I said I was neither Atheistic nor religious. It was a statement o fact. I wasn't looking for your input or validation. I've spent 30 years getting to the point where i'm comfortable in my beliefs or lack of. You can call me an atheist till your blue in the face but it doesn't make me one.

JayRoc wrote: »

But the symbolism of getting down on your knees is inescapable and I will do that for no man or god, to be honest.

I thought I was alone in this. I’ve struggled with it as long as I can remember. Certainly since I was a child. I refused to kneel then and I still refuse to this day.

Just like yourself I do all the shuffling and moving up to the point of actually kneeling.

It’s like singing is to the prods, kneeling seems to be a big thing for the Catholics cause absolutely everyone does it.

Peregrinus wrote: »

This is actually pretty common for unbelievers attending church services. They are fine with standing and sitting when everybody else does, but kneeling has a symbolic signficance that goes to far for them, so they don't kneel.

Which is not a big deal. Nobody around you is likely to notice or care. Not kneeling is common, and need not be a statement about belief. It can just as easily be a statement about the condition of your joints, or your general state of weariness.

My comment was really in reply to a previous poster saying they just did all the stuff the people around them were doing including kneeling.

I've had a couple of instances of friends asking me why I felt it necessary to make the point of not kneeling at a mass, which bummed me out because I bend over backward to not make a big deal of my beliefs (or lack thereof).

I'm attending a ceremony (wedding, funeral) and it's not about me.

the_syco wrote: »

I attend weddings & funerals out of respect for the person. I don't respond to the prayers, and I don't get the bread.

I would mostly be the same. With the added move that I try to sit in the back row, or the last row that is actually used. That was I do not get in the way of the faces or hands of the people choosing to kneel behind me when I myself do not kneel.

Happy to go to these ceremonies when I am invited. I do not take part in the propitiation. But I do work to minimise the impact of that fact to the point I do not put anyone out, and as few people notice me as possible.

Did used to get the bread for awhile though. Mostly because I was collecting them for experimentation. Still have quiet a few of them in a drawer. They do not decay at all which is fun. Kinda like paper. Or McDonalds fries (allegedly, have not verified).

osarusan wrote: »

I go along, kneel, sit, stand when everybody else does. I don't say any of the prayers simpyl because I don't know the words. At my father's funeral, I even did a reading, talking about the word of the Lord or whatever it was.

Wont be doing that at my dads funeral wherever it has to be. He has told me on occasion that he wants to be cremated but I am not sure if he has made that wish explicit to anyone else. I must check with him on that.

But wherever he ends up having his ceremony, be it in a church or a pub or anywhere in between, I have told him that despite not being a singer I would be holding a guinness aloft and singing my best rendition of "the parting glass".

He seemed quite happy with this suggestion. So now I feel I have to stick to it.

Swanner wrote: »

As for death bed conversions, my father was a clergy man and and attended many of them. I get that they don't suit your narrative but they happen whether you like it or not.

Death bed conversions certainly fit my narrative however. My narrative being that there appears to be no arguments, evidence, data or reasoning to suggest our conscious awareness survives the death of the brain, or that following death we meet and commune with any form of human or non-human consciousness.

Given death is one of the moments therefore where we are most compromised in terms of our rationality and emotional well being..... that people at their lowest point of rationality and emotional integrity start to believe unsubstantiated nonsense..... fits entirely perfectly with my narrative. That the less rational a person is, the more likely they are to take on such a belief new.... is EXACTLY what my own narratives would have predicted.

Swanner wrote: »

You can call me an atheist till your blue in the face but it doesn't make me one.

Thankfully however the user at no point suggested that calling you one does make you one. What he appears to have said is that IF you fit the definition of one, THEN you are one. Which would seem to be an entirely accurate IF-THEN statement to make. If you fit the definition of a womble, you would also be a womble. And if you fit the definition of a negro, so too would you be a negro.

That said though I share your lack of use of the word. I likely fit most of the definitions of the word out there, so I take no issue however small with anyone calling me one. But I see no reason to call myself one and I almost entirely never do (except where the flow of prose for some reason demands it). I prefer to define myself by what I am, not by what I am not. So the word is useless to me. I have no time for it, and no requirement for it, so I simply do not identify with it or use it myself.

Further I think it was the wrong word to create. The word atheist means a- (without) theism (some theism). But people generally use it to describe a lack of belief in gods, not a theism built up around a god. They likely should have created the word adeist therefore, not atheist. Not every atheist is an adeist. Even if most adesits (all?) are atheists

Words are fun.

AllForIt wrote: »

Maybe the point is, rather than focusing all this discussion on me and my personal insecurities, is that some provision should be made at such events for non-believers or ppl of a different religious persuasion - like a section in the church pews allotted for such ppl to sit?

What, segregate them less their uncleanliness contaminate the believers? The regulars here would have a feast day if churches did that!

The same rule applies to believers and unbelievers alike; sit where you feel comfortable.

I can't understand this "I don't want to go to the church itself" logic on these threads.

Not a believer myself, but still would have no issue actually being in the building itself for the wedding or funeral service. Its not like you're going to catch fire or suffer in any way. Its showing a bit of respect for the person getting married or who has died, and does you no harm. You can just keep your mouth closed throughout, no-one is asking you to pretend you are something you aren't.

If I was a believer and a family member had died, nothing would annoy me more than someone saying they aren't going to be in the church building cos they don't believe in God. Basic manners transcend religious belief imho.

Nothing more annoying than an atheist or agnostic thinking its all about them all the time.

But I wonder how the OP would deal with these 2 situations:

1) Death of their best friends relative, be it their mother, father, sibling, child

v

2) Death of their own parent?

You can be an atheist, but would he/she really ignore the church service and just turn up at the burial in either/both these cases?

Their friend might understand them not attending the church for the service, but surely for their own parent they'd need to be there?