How to deal with weddings/funerals

nozzferrahhtoo

the_syco wrote: »

I attend weddings & funerals out of respect for the person. I don't respond to the prayers, and I don't get the bread.

I would mostly be the same. With the added move that I try to sit in the back row, or the last row that is actually used. That was I do not get in the way of the faces or hands of the people choosing to kneel behind me when I myself do not kneel.

Happy to go to these ceremonies when I am invited. I do not take part in the propitiation. But I do work to minimise the impact of that fact to the point I do not put anyone out, and as few people notice me as possible.

Did used to get the bread for awhile though. Mostly because I was collecting them for experimentation. Still have quiet a few of them in a drawer. They do not decay at all which is fun. Kinda like paper. Or McDonalds fries (allegedly, have not verified).

osarusan wrote: »

I go along, kneel, sit, stand when everybody else does. I don't say any of the prayers simpyl because I don't know the words. At my father's funeral, I even did a reading, talking about the word of the Lord or whatever it was.

Wont be doing that at my dads funeral wherever it has to be. He has told me on occasion that he wants to be cremated but I am not sure if he has made that wish explicit to anyone else. I must check with him on that.

But wherever he ends up having his ceremony, be it in a church or a pub or anywhere in between, I have told him that despite not being a singer I would be holding a guinness aloft and singing my best rendition of "the parting glass".

He seemed quite happy with this suggestion. So now I feel I have to stick to it.

Swanner wrote: »

As for death bed conversions, my father was a clergy man and and attended many of them. I get that they don't suit your narrative but they happen whether you like it or not.

Death bed conversions certainly fit my narrative however. My narrative being that there appears to be no arguments, evidence, data or reasoning to suggest our conscious awareness survives the death of the brain, or that following death we meet and commune with any form of human or non-human consciousness.

Given death is one of the moments therefore where we are most compromised in terms of our rationality and emotional well being..... that people at their lowest point of rationality and emotional integrity start to believe unsubstantiated nonsense..... fits entirely perfectly with my narrative. That the less rational a person is, the more likely they are to take on such a belief new.... is EXACTLY what my own narratives would have predicted.

Swanner wrote: »

You can call me an atheist till your blue in the face but it doesn't make me one.

Thankfully however the user at no point suggested that calling you one does make you one. What he appears to have said is that IF you fit the definition of one, THEN you are one. Which would seem to be an entirely accurate IF-THEN statement to make. If you fit the definition of a womble, you would also be a womble. And if you fit the definition of a negro, so too would you be a negro.

That said though I share your lack of use of the word. I likely fit most of the definitions of the word out there, so I take no issue however small with anyone calling me one. But I see no reason to call myself one and I almost entirely never do (except where the flow of prose for some reason demands it). I prefer to define myself by what I am, not by what I am not. So the word is useless to me. I have no time for it, and no requirement for it, so I simply do not identify with it or use it myself.

Further I think it was the wrong word to create. The word atheist means a- (without) theism (some theism). But people generally use it to describe a lack of belief in gods, not a theism built up around a god. They likely should have created the word adeist therefore, not atheist. Not every atheist is an adeist. Even if most adesits (all?) are atheists

Words are fun.

AllForIt

seamus wrote: »

It's very normal and natural to feel self-conscious when you're the only one in a group who's not doing something. If you went to a Mosque, you'd probably feel very "exposed" standing there like a lemon while everyone else prays. Do it five or six times and you'll realise that nobody is really paying attention.

This effect is actually made worse when you're familiar with the rituals. You spent your entire childhood being conditioned to learn the rituals, to participate, for it to be second nature. Sitting in mass hearing the words being spoken, is like listening to a song you know really well coming on the radio; you almost can't help yourself but to sing along.

Yes, thanks for making this point because it was something I should have mentioned myself. I should have elaborated on the 'mumbling' bit. What I found was I couldn't help myself from doing it as silly as that sounds, when I was telling myself to stop it, but I did it anyway, a reflex I suppose. The comical part is that I remembered some of the lines but then suddenly I stopped cause I couldn't recall the next line.

AllForIt

Maybe the point is, rather than focusing all this discussion on me and my personal insecurities, is that some provision should be made at such events for non-believers or ppl of a different religious persuasion - like a section in the church pews allotted for such ppl to sit?

As some have rightly pointed out one doesn't really want to miss out on such occasions because they wish to make a stand on some principle. That's not what it is about for me at all, I'm just not a catholic, that's all, and I have no desire to be dramatic about it, and if my OP came across that way then I didn't express myself very well.

And all I wanted to know was how ppl deal with the situation and interestingly some ppl say they play along to an extent and other have said they just sit.

salmocab

AllForIt wrote: »

Maybe the point is, rather than focusing all this discussion on me and my personal insecurities, is that some provision should be made at such events for non-believers or ppl of a different religious persuasion - like a section in the church pews allotted for such ppl to sit?

As some have rightly pointed out one doesn't really want to miss out on such occasions because they wish to make a stand on some principle. That's not what it is about for me at all, I'm just not a catholic, that's all, and I have no desire to be dramatic about it, and if my OP came across that way then I didn't express myself very well.

And all I wanted to know was how ppl deal with the situation and interestingly some ppl say they play along to an extent and other have said they just sit.

Ah in fairness its not for the catholic church to be putting in place special areas for non believers or even people of different faiths, it seems that most of us here are happy enough to go along and not join in with the religious element but also not disrespect what others are doing.

Peregrinus

AllForIt wrote: »

Maybe the point is, rather than focusing all this discussion on me and my personal insecurities, is that some provision should be made at such events for non-believers or ppl of a different religious persuasion - like a section in the church pews allotted for such ppl to sit?

What, segregate them less their uncleanliness contaminate the believers? The regulars here would have a feast day if churches did that!

The same rule applies to believers and unbelievers alike; sit where you feel comfortable.

seamus

AllForIt wrote: »

Maybe the point is, rather than focusing all this discussion on me and my personal insecurities, is that some provision should be made at such events for non-believers or ppl of a different religious persuasion - like a section in the church pews allotted for such ppl to sit?

If you're genuinely uncomfortable, then stand at the back of the church. Nobody can see you there, and by virtue of the fact that you're standing, you don't have to do the kneel, sit, stand dance.

NIMAN

I can't understand this "I don't want to go to the church itself" logic on these threads.

Not a believer myself, but still would have no issue actually being in the building itself for the wedding or funeral service. Its not like you're going to catch fire or suffer in any way. Its showing a bit of respect for the person getting married or who has died, and does you no harm. You can just keep your mouth closed throughout, no-one is asking you to pretend you are something you aren't.

If I was a believer and a family member had died, nothing would annoy me more than someone saying they aren't going to be in the church building cos they don't believe in God. Basic manners transcend religious belief imho.

Nothing more annoying than an atheist or agnostic thinking its all about them all the time.

osarusan

JayRoc wrote: »

The odd time I have to be in a church I do my best to be unobtrusive about my lack of participation (usually a wedding or funeral). I stand up when everyone else does, I do the funny handshake, etc.

But (and I can't speak for anyone else here) kneeling is absolutely out of the question. I will shuffle forward in the seat to allow the person behind me room and I will do my best to be subtle about it (I'm not there to make a point).

But the symbolism of getting down on your knees is inescapable and I will do that for no man or god, to be honest.

Fair enough, I'll kneel when everybody else does, it doesn't cause me any conflict at all.

The symbolism doesn't weigh on my mind like it does yours, obviously.

I've been to Buddhist and Shinto ceremonies and gone through whatever rituals there are with lighting incense sticks and even a kind of choreographed clapping...the symbolism of what I was doing, or issues of whether it was appropriate to 'fake it' never really bothered me at all.

Obviously, it does bother the OP though, so my posts won't be much help.

NIMAN

But I wonder how the OP would deal with these 2 situations:

1) Death of their best friends relative, be it their mother, father, sibling, child

v

2) Death of their own parent?

You can be an atheist, but would he/she really ignore the church service and just turn up at the burial in either/both these cases?

Their friend might understand them not attending the church for the service, but surely for their own parent they'd need to be there?

AllForIt

Peregrinus wrote: »

What, segregate them less their uncleanliness contaminate the believers? The regulars here would have a feast day if churches did that!

I don't know why your so aghast about my suggestion. It's almost as if believers demand some respect for their faith to be shown by unbelievers while one is in their house. I did say ppl of other faiths and not just unbelievers btw.

AllForIt

NIMAN wrote: »

But I wonder how the OP would deal with these 2 situations:

1) Death of their best friends relative, be it their mother, father, sibling, child

v

2) Death of their own parent?

You can be an atheist, but would he/she really ignore the church service and just turn up at the burial in either/both these cases?

Their friend might understand them not attending the church for the service, but surely for their own parent they'd need to be there?

Good question and yes my parents are still alive. I am giving serious thought about this eventuality and whether I should play the catholic at the service. I'm veering towards I won't if you don't find that too shocking. I don't see why I should bow to traditional catholic funeral customs. I don't buy the respect thing when I don't get any for being an atheist. I bet you if I died in an tragic accident tomorrow and I had my solicitor ensure my funeral was conducted in an non-catholic setting I wouldn't receive an ounce of respect for my decision from any of my family members or their neighbours.

Drumpot

AllForIt wrote: »

Good question and yes my parents are still alive. I am giving serious thought about this eventuality and whether I should play the catholic at the service. I'm veering towards I won't if you don't find that too shocking. I don't see why I should bow to traditional catholic funeral customs. I don't buy the respect thing when I don't get any for being an atheist. I bet you if I died in an tragic accident tomorrow and I had my solicitor ensure my funeral was conducted in an non-catholic setting I wouldn't receive an ounce of respect for my decision from any of my family members or their neighbours.

I buried my dad the way I knew he wanted. I’m not overly comfortable with the catholic protocols myself but his funeral was about celebrating his life, not making it about my hangups.

I don’t really care what happens at my funeral cause I won’t have the stress of organizing it. I hope whatever it is, it gives my family some comfort. My mum has already told me what she wants and I will follow her wishes....

I suppose the secret is to not make every church event about you and think of the person that you are there to support or respect.

Nick Park

salmocab wrote: »

Ah in fairness its not for the catholic church to be putting in place special areas for non believers or even people of different faiths, it seems that most of us here are happy enough to go along and not join in with the religious element but also not disrespect what others are doing.

Agreed. For me, it's just common decency to be as supportive as possible to people you care about who are celebrating (or mourning) an important milestone in their lives.

I'm a non-Catholic Christian, so at Catholic events I don't bother with the kneeling or taking mass. But I try to act respectfully so as not to spoil a special occasion for others.

It's not just a religious thing. When my daughter got married (a non-religious ceremony) there were portions of the ceremony that didn't do anything for me, but they were obviously meaningful to her and the young lady she was marrying. And, because I love them both, I smiled and tried to ensure that my presence made the day more positive for them.

iamwhoiam

AllForIt wrote: »

I don't know why your so aghast about my suggestion. It's almost as if believers demand some respect for their faith to be shown by unbelievers while one is in their house. I did say ppl of other faiths and not just unbelievers btw.

Do you suggest then that I should sit apart from my husband or family because of differnt faiths ? How silly , I am sure adults can respect a service in any faith and be respectful of customs

ger vallely

I attend only for weddings and funerals. As has been mentioned by other posters- I too just don’t respond to prayers, do any blessing or that kind of thing. I have done readings at both my parents funerals and at one of an uncle of mine. I chose readings that were suitable to both me and those who had passed. There are some that don’t seem religious at all, who knew! I did the readings because mainly, I was asked to and I know it would have pleased my parents. I really dislike wedding ceremonies in a church but when friends or family are being married, well, it’s their choice and it would be really rude to simply turn up for the food! I don’t let any of it bother me and just get along with the day in hand.

The Bishop Basher

NIMAN wrote: »

I can't understand this "I don't want to go to the church itself" logic on these threads.

I can only speak for myself but it's the insane boredom coupled with the uncomfortable and unfamiliar surroundings.

I also hate formalities of any sort so it's a form of torture basically.

Pure hell.

AllForIt wrote: »

Good question and yes my parents are still alive. I am giving serious thought about this eventuality and whether I should play the catholic at the service. I'm veering towards I won't if you don't find that too shocking. I don't see why I should bow to traditional catholic funeral customs.

Because they're your parents and they've probably sucked a lot of **** up for you over the years that they didn't want to but did it anyway. The least you could do is grant them any final wishes regardless of your own beliefs and take the opportunity to show them your thanks and respect one last time.

Maybe you didn't get on with them but even if that were the case, it's probably time to bury the hatchet when they're dead.

NIMAN

AllForIt wrote: »

Good question and yes my parents are still alive. I am giving serious thought about this eventuality and whether I should play the catholic at the service. I'm veering towards I won't if you don't find that too shocking. I don't see why I should bow to traditional catholic funeral customs. I don't buy the respect thing when I don't get any for being an atheist. I bet you if I died in an tragic accident tomorrow and I had my solicitor ensure my funeral was conducted in an non-catholic setting I wouldn't receive an ounce of respect for my decision from any of my family members or their neighbours.

Thanks for the answer, yeah I can understand but you will still have to attend the service and funeral if your parents want a Catholic burial, with all the religious trappings that these entail. But you'd not consider not attending is my point, you just have to go along with it and suck it up. To be honest, no-one will notice if you don't utter a single word in response to any prayer or not.


What about the other situation, say for example your best pal lost a child, would you stay away from the church service out of principle rather than show your face there to perhaps provide him with some support?

This is the bit I don't get with some atheists. It can seem to be making it all about them rather than the person who is trying to deal with a loss.

As I said, I wouldn't be a believer, but I would never considering going along to a friend and saying "look, you know I'm not a believer, so I won't be at the service"

El_Duderino 09

Interesting situation at a wedding recently. I'm an in-law and most of my mrs' family are atheist. So we stood and sat when appropriate but didn't take part in the service beyond that. But when it came to communion more than half of my family's side didn't go for communion. I was shocked at how common it is now.

The interesting thing was when I heard one of the people who would normally go to communion was uncomfortable about going for communion because she was the only one in her seat row who was going.

I'm all for people not taking part if they don't want to but I was surprised that someone could be so easily dissuade from their religious practices because everyone else wasn't doing it too. I think it shows that the Catholics need absolute control or else the control they have will unravel in a generation. That's what we're seeing at the moment in my opinion.

recedite

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The interesting thing was when I heard one of the people who would normally go to communion was uncomfortable about going for communion because she was the only one in her seat row who was going.

Very funny that, because I haven't been for a while so I haven't noticed the change. But I remember a few years ago it was often the other way round and I'd be the only one left sitting down, on my own.
A couple of times I'd then see the first ones coming back, looking straight at me, but they deliberately approached from the wrong side so I'd have to stand up to let them through. Lets say I'm sitting midway along the pew, and some randomer's seat was at the far end on my LHS, then they would approach from my RHS. Now I know they often have some weird one way system going, but if you have a clear choice of which side to approach from, why bother annoying somebody else? I just put it down to them being sanctimonious pricks.

AllForIt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The interesting thing was when I heard one of the people who would normally go to communion was uncomfortable about going for communion because she was the only one in her seat row who was going.

Interesting indeed. A Catholic going with the flow to stay in a at-the-time perceived majority. How easily some can flip when they feel they are in the minority. And here's me striving to do the exact opposite. You'd wonder who feels more strongly about their convictions when you hear stuff like this.

recedite wrote: »

Very funny that, because I haven't been for a while so I haven't noticed the change. But I remember a few years ago it was often the other way round and I'd be the only one left sitting down, on my own.

This is a similar situation to one I experienced last time I was in a church and why I started the thread. I was at a tragic funeral of a very young relative. The top pews naturally are reserved for family and relations. I was five pews down as every single person in every pew on both sides of the aisle went to receive. I've not seen this before but it was all done in an orderly fashion each pew going one by one to avoid congestion I suppose. That made it worse somehow cause as I sat in the pew no doubt I stuck out like a sore thumb and I felt awkward about it especially as it was such a tragic occasion.

I understand why some like NIMAN might assume "I want to make everything about me", but I can assure you that is wrong, I want the exact opposite. In such awkward situations I want to make it about anything but me, but I still have to be me. That is not to say I want to hide my atheism especially to my family, actually more my relatives, my family know I never go to church.

Certainly if I ever find myself in such a situation again I'll be able to deal with it a bit better so my social awkwardness won't consume my mind to a point it's pointless me being there but the the sake of appearances.

El_Duderino 09

AllForIt wrote: »

Interesting indeed. A Catholic going with the flow to stay in a at-the-time perceived majority. How easily some can flip when they feel they are in the minority. And here's me striving to do the exact opposite. You'd wonder who feels more strongly about their convictions when you hear stuff like this.

That’s exactly it. I wondered if people who aren’t taking an active part should sit down the back or in the corner or stand at the back or something. I didn’t like the idea that I was peer pressuring someone to not take part in their religion.

But then I realised all it would take is a simple conversation amongst the religious people. If you don’t believe in the religion, don’t go to communion. If you do believe in the religion, go for communion. I imagine the worst nightmare for the catholics would be to get casual catholics to think about whether they actually believe in it or not.

splinter65

AllForIt wrote: »

Maybe the point is, rather than focusing all this discussion on me and my personal insecurities, is that some provision should be made at such events for non-believers or ppl of a different religious persuasion - like a section in the church pews allotted for such ppl to sit?

As some have rightly pointed out one doesn't really want to miss out on such occasions because they wish to make a stand on some principle. That's not what it is about for me at all, I'm just not a catholic, that's all, and I have no desire to be dramatic about it, and if my OP came across that way then I didn't express myself very well.

And all I wanted to know was how ppl deal with the situation and interestingly some ppl say they play along to an extent and other have said they just sit.

You have a lot of insecurities and your life must be quite difficult because I think it’s probably attaching itself to more then just your desicion to not follow any belief system.
You keep repeating that you don’t want to be conspicuous in your atheism in the places of religious worship but now you feel that places of worship should provide a clearly defined segregated area so that all the believers can recognize that you and anyone else in this “section” are not believers.
So you are in fact quite desperate to be conspicuous.
Can you see how desperate that is?

Peregrinus

Interesting that both believers and non-believers report feeling pressure to conform and/or stress about the decision to conform.

Maybe what’s going on here is that these are communal rituals. People attend them because they want to participate in a collective response to grief and loss (at a funeral) or expression of joy (at a wedding). Intuitively, this requires more than presence; it requires participation. So if there’s a barrier to participation, whether that arises from your own beliefs or pressure from other people, that causes stress.

The irony is that much of this stress is internally generated. I guarantee you, if you are the only person in the pew who goes up to communion, it is wildly unlikely that anyone else in the pew cares that you went up to communion, or is passing negative judgements about you for doing so. And the exactly the same goes if you are the only person in the bench who does not go up to communion.

Perhaps this points to some kind of communal immaturity. We live in a much more diverse community than we used to, in terms of belief and practice, but we are still uncomfortable that other people believe/practice differently from us, and we impute a similar discomfort to them.

splinter65

AllForIt wrote: »

I don't know why your so aghast about my suggestion. It's almost as if believers demand some respect for their faith to be shown by unbelievers while one is in their house. I did say ppl of other faiths and not just unbelievers btw.

It’s not difficult to be respectful in some one else’s house, is it?

recedite

splinter65 wrote: »

So you are in fact quite desperate to be conspicuous.
Can you see how desperate that is?

No I don't think so. If you take something like the one way system they organise, it may make things more efficient but only if 100% of people go up. If one person remains on the seat, the efficiency disappears and everyone else has to get past that person on their way back. Even though there might be several different alternative routes available that would be easier. But when they are sticking rigidly to the system, like a sheep to a sheep path, there is no room for lateral thinking.


The person who does not conform has as much chance of remaining inconspicuous as a motorist driving up a one way street the wrong way. You can't avoid the glares because you are in a situation in which you are creating a problem for everyone else. That, IMO is a deliberate part of the plan.
The same issue does not crop up in reverse though, ie if only one person was going up, they can come back by whichever route is easiest.

splinter65

recedite wrote: »

No I don't think so. If you take something like the one way system they organise, it may make things more efficient but only if 100% of people go up. If one person remains on the seat, the efficiency disappears and everyone else has to get past that person on their way back. Even though there might be several different alternative routes available that would be easier. But when they are sticking rigidly to the system, like a sheep to a sheep path, there is no room for lateral thinking.


The person who does not conform has as much chance of remaining inconspicuous as a motorist driving up a one way street the wrong way. You can't avoid the glares because you are in a situation in which you are creating a problem for everyone else. That, IMO is a deliberate part of the plan.
The same issue does not crop up in reverse though, ie if only one person was going up, they can come back by whichever route is easiest.

You actually think that in Catholic Churches that the act of leaving your seat to receive the blessed Eucharist is designed deliberately to make those not receiving today feel conspicuous, and you think that people who don’t receive today are glared at?!?

recedite

splinter65 wrote: »

You actually think that in Catholic Churches that the act of leaving your seat to receive the blessed Eucharist is designed deliberately to make those not receiving today feel conspicuous

The jury is out as to whether its "intelligent design" or just "evolution; the spread of an advantageous meme".

splinter65 wrote: »

and you think that people who don’t receive today are glared at?!?

No, I said "The same issue does not crop up in reverse".

c.p.w.g.w

I just go to Church for things like Wedding, Funeral's & Baptisms because i can't apparently not go, social convention...

I just sit down, take no part.

Recently i was asked to be a godparent, was caught on the hop so didn't know how to decline it, so just accepted it. But during the mass/baptism ceremony, I didn't respond to any of the nonsense about God being the creator, just stood there along side the other godparent respectfully silent, got a few looks from the crazies of the family who are devout religious folk.

NIMAN

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

I just go to Church for things like Wedding, Funeral's & Baptisms because i can't apparently not go, social convention...

I just sit down, take no part.

Recently i was asked to be a godparent, was caught on the hop so didn't know how to decline it, so just accepted it. But during the mass/baptism ceremony, I didn't respond to any of the nonsense about God being the creator, just stood there along side the other godparent respectfully silent, got a few looks from the crazies of the family who are devout religious folk.

Maybe in future your initial response might be to say to those asking you "you do know I am atheist?", and then let them decide if they still want you to take on the role. If they do, then grand and they are happy for you to just stand there and say nothing.

c.p.w.g.w

NIMAN wrote: »

Maybe in future your initial response might be to say to those asking you "you do know I am atheist?", and then let them decide if they still want you to take on the role. If they do, then grand and they are happy for you to just stand there and say nothing.

My sister knows i'm against organised religion in generally and have a certain level of hatred towards RCC*...consider myself probably more agnostic. But the looks were from his family not my own


*they have a very checkered history but i'm sure you are aware

splinter65

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

I just go to Church for things like Wedding, Funeral's & Baptisms because i can't apparently not go, social convention...

I just sit down, take no part.

Recently i was asked to be a godparent, was caught on the hop so didn't know how to decline it, so just accepted it. But during the mass/baptism ceremony, I didn't respond to any of the nonsense about God being the creator, just stood there along side the other godparent respectfully silent, got a few looks from the crazies of the family who are devout religious folk.

You agreed to be a catholic godparent even though your an atheist, but it’s the religious folk who are “crazies”.....

c.p.w.g.w

splinter65 wrote: »

You agreed to be a catholic godparent even though your an atheist, but it’s the religious folk who are “crazies”.....

I was aware the offer was coming and was trying to formulate a response to decline but was told it would cause offence. Being aware of the offer and the offer happened within 2 days, child wasn't even out of the hospital.

But i'm sure in the eyes of the church i'm not the godparent as i didn't respond to the priests questions, which didn't my response.

Also my definition of crazies may just differ from yours

NIMAN

You'll be grand, godparent does next to f*** all anyway.
You just might have a couple of occasions of not responding to prayers in the future, but I'm sure you'll survive them.

c.p.w.g.w

NIMAN wrote: »

You'll be grand, godparent does next to f*** all anyway.
You just might have a couple of occasions of not responding to prayers in the future, but I'm sure you'll survive them.

I may, but sometimes mass makes me feel physically sick and incredibly angry, irrationally so at times were i have to go for a walk to cool down...and i've not even been directly affected by the RCC. Hypocrisy just seems to really get to me it seems, thus why i can't part-take in RCC ceremony's

splinter65

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

I was aware the offer was coming and was trying to formulate a response to decline but was told it would cause offence. Being aware of the offer and the offer happened within 2 days, child wasn't even out of the hospital.

But i'm sure in the eyes of the church i'm not the godparent as i didn't respond to the priests questions, which didn't my response.

Also my definition of crazies may just differ from yours

Your sister, a devout catholic, brought her very new baby to a catholic priest in a Catholic Church to have it baptized as a Catholic because it was very important to her. And she decided that her brother would have to be the child’s godparent, spiritual support in the child’s Catholicism, even though her brother has a declared hatred of Catholicscm and is an atheist. And you agreed.

splinter65

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

I may, but sometimes mass makes me feel physically sick and incredibly angry, irrationally so at times were i have to go for a walk to cool down...and i've not even been directly affected by the RCC. Hypocrisy just seems to really get to me it seems, thus why i can't part-take in RCC ceremony's

If mass makes you feel sick, why do you go? You go to mass and have to walk off your nausea afterwards, agree to be your niece/nephews godparent, but it’s the church who are hypocrites?!? You can’t see the irony?

c.p.w.g.w

splinter65 wrote: »

Your sister, a devout catholic, brought her very new baby to a catholic priest in a Catholic Church to have it baptized as a Catholic because it was very important to her. And she decided that her brother would have to be the child’s godparent, spiritual support in the child’s Catholicism, even though her brother has a declared hatred of Catholicscm and is an atheist. And you agreed.

Agnostic not atheist.

I was caught on the hop, i was visiting them in the hospital and she asked me. I knew i was going to be asked but not so soon.

Sister isn't as devout as the her partner.

Also i was told i would cause offense if i were to decline by my OH, as i know i was going to be asked.

The job is to offer guidance, i will offer them all the guidance i can, without any religious context.

splinter65

What I’m going to find interesting from now on is the excuses A&A people find for participating in catholic sacraments now that the school place thing is gone.
“I was caught on the hop” is a good start.

c.p.w.g.w

splinter65 wrote: »

If mass makes you feel sick, why do you go? You go to mass and have to walk off your nausea afterwards, agree to be your niece/nephews godparent, but it’s the church who are hypocrites?!? You can’t see the irony?

Well i don't take part, i literately sit at the back in silence. Unfortunately if i don't go it will cause tension. Nearly all of my family aside from my sister that is, aren't religious in anyway.

Admittedly going does make me a little hypocritical, and that maybe adds to by i react to mass the way i do. But i certainly don't acknowledge god creating the universe, or the original sin stuff, literally just keep silent.

c.p.w.g.w

splinter65 wrote: »

What I’m going to find interesting from now on is the excuses A&A people find for participating in catholic sacraments now that the school place thing is gone.
“I was caught on the hop” is a good start.

I haven't received communion since my communion in school, and technically i didn't explicitly participate in the baptism, i didn't acknowledge the stuff i was supposed to in the ceremony

The Bishop Basher

People make these things far more complicated then they need be.

OP..

You’ve been asked to be a godparent. It’s a “huge” honour that involves throwing them a few bob for birthdays and attending a couple of important occasions in their lives. That’s about it..

I’m godfather to 3 kids. I don’t have a religious bone in my body. I still see it as a great honour that anyone thought me important enough in their lives to ask me.

Either accept graciously and take part, or say no and let them find someone else. You can’t be held responsible should they choose to be offended..

It really is that simple.

Wheety

It's already a big thread and I'm sure this has been said but I attend weddings and funerals of people out of respect for them. I just sit through the service and don't join in. I don't kneel. I stand just out of awkwardness of being eye level with bums :-D

If you sit or stand at the back you don't have to even do that much.

Haven't attended church part of a christening in at least 15 years though.

Oh and it really does sound like a cult hearing everyone saying their responses at the same time when you're not saying it too.

salmocab

Wheety wrote: »

It's already a big thread and I'm sure this has been said but I attend weddings and funerals of people out of respect for them. I just sit through the service and don't join in. I don't kneel. I stand just out of awkwardness of being eye level with bums :-D

If you sit or stand at the back you don't have to even do that much.

Haven't attended church part of a christening in at least 15 years though.

Oh and it really does sound like a cult hearing everyone saying their responses at the same time when you're not saying it too.

That’s pretty much what everyone said, we go don’t be dicks and really the religious people there don’t care or notice.

Just on the last few posts I was asked to be a godparent and said no, it wasn’t for me but I was a bit pissed off as they had sounded out my wife before they asked and she told them I’d say no. It was unnecessary to ask me.

Peregrinus

salmocab wrote: »

That’s pretty much what everyone said, we go don’t be dicks and really the religious people there don’t care or notice.

Just on the last few posts I was asked to be a godparent and said no, it wasn’t for me but I was a bit pissed off as they had sounded out my wife before they asked and she told them I’d say no. It was unnecessary to ask me.

Was it not, rather, unnecessary to ask your wife? You're a grown man; you, not she, will decide if you wish to take on the godparent role.

salmocab

Peregrinus wrote: »

Was it not, rather, unnecessary to ask your wife? You're a grown man; you, not she, will decide if you wish to take on the godparent role.

Well yeah but I think her sister was excited as new parents do be and mentioned it to her that they were going to ask me and my wife said she thought I’d say no, which I then confirmed and she told her sister then that I’d say no and her sister said something like well we will ask him anyway. I suspect that most people when selecting god parents just pick next in line from family and friends and don’t think about what the job is meant to be

Peregrinus

salmocab wrote: »

Well yeah but I think her sister was excited as new parents do be and mentioned it to her that they were going to ask me and my wife said she thought I’d say no, which I then confirmed and she told her sister then that I’d say no and her sister said something like well we will ask him anyway. I suspect that most people when selecting god parents just pick next in line from family and friends and don’t think about what the job is meant to be

Yeah, I have to say, if I heard that someone wanted to ask me and was told that I'd say no and so never asked me, I'd be a bit pissed; that was my decision to make, and I should have been allowed to make it. But we can get a bit precious about these things, and the parents of a newborn have a lot to think about while they are sleep-deprived so, either way, we should cut them some slack.

It is the case that parents ask unbelievers who might forseeably refuse, and this puts them in the potentially embarrassing position of having to refuse. But, hey, sometimes you have to find a gracious way of expressing your belief, even if your belief is unbelief.

smacl

My eldest girl's graduation was the first time going to a mass for me yesterday in well over a decade. Priest seemed like a decent enough chap and the girls sang a few hymns as gaelige rather well with excellent solos that made for pleasant listening. The priests homily covered how much he enjoyed listening to Kirsty MacColl singing Days which while slightly bizarre was something I agreed with him on wholeheartedly. Shame it wasn't on the song list for the vocalists as I reckon they could have managed a smashing rendition. Surprisingly better than any wedding or funeral mass I've had to sit through and very likely (hopefully) the last mass I see for quite a few years to come. So it goes.

recedite

Peregrinus wrote: »

It is the case that parents ask unbelievers who might forseeably refuse, and this puts them in the potentially embarrassing position of having to refuse. But, hey, sometimes you have to find a gracious way of expressing your belief, even if your belief is unbelief.

Its just another example of the subtle pressure to conform.
As an analogy, lets say your sister had a muslim as their "partner" and you invite them over for a meal. You ask her would the guy eat ham if it was offered, and the answer is no. Then at the meal (ham) you offer the food directly to the guy, which of course is politely declined. Was that really necessary? Who comes out of it looking generous, and who ends up looking like a freak?

I declined the godparent job on 3 occasions, and certainly for the second two they knew I was not going to accept it. I'm not saying minor annoyance is a big deal, but I'm just saying, it is what it is. A reluctance to respect the other person's position/beliefs/unbeliefs.

Hotblack Desiato

Wheety wrote: »

awkwardness of being eye level with bums

Depends on the bums remember that line in the Sawdoctors song which rhymed "mass" with "glory of her ass"?

smacl

recedite wrote: »

As an analogy, lets say your sister had a muslim as their "partner" and you invite them over for a meal. You ask her would the guy eat ham if it was offered, and the answer is no. Then at the meal (ham) you offer the food directly to the guy, which of course is politely declined. Was that really necessary? Who comes out of it looking generous, and who ends up looking like a freak?

Worth remembering that the Islamic equivalent of the A la carte Catholic is the Pork pie Muslim of which there are many.