How to deal with weddings/funerals

AllForIt

As I get older I feel more and more uncomfortable about attending Catholic church services - weddings and funerals of course.

Last year I attended a family funeral (not intimidate family, a relative) and I felt like a right lemon muttering along to responses etc. As I reach middle age and my older family relatives are beginning to pass away - I don't think I can attend any more catholic funerals, and I think now I should consider ways to deal with them differently.

I was thinking the following - in the case of a funeral - just turn up at the burial service and skip the church service. In the case of a wedding - skip the church service and go to the reception. Or maybe attend the church service and sit at the back seat of the church so not everyone would notice I'm not participating - standing up/keeling down/praying etc. Another option would be don't go at all and express my sympathies in some other way - but this would be awkward for family funerals.

I was wondering if anyone feels the same way and how do you deal with these situations. If there has been any similar threads on this I'd apprentice a link as I realise this subject has prolly been discussed here before.

_CreeD_

I attend and respectfully do not participate in the specific rituals (prayers, kneeling etc.).

eviltwin

I only go to church now for weddings, funerals etc. I don't say anything and would rather not be there but I think it's important to think about the other people involved and what's best for them. I wouldn't want to hurt or insult anyone by turning down a wedding invite or not being at a funeral to support them.

Put it this way, if it was your wedding or loved ones funeral you would appreciate the religious people in your life being there.

wexie

_CreeD_ wrote: »

I attend and respectfully do not participate in the specific rituals (prayers, kneeling etc.).

This just here.

OP....are you going out of respect for your family/friends and their wishes or because you believe? I don't think they need to go hand in hand at all.

Whenever I'm in a church I'm there not necessarily because I want to be in a church but because someone who is important to me is having an event (that sounds kinda wrong for a funeral but still) that I would like to attend.

It's irrelevant to me (perhaps not to them) where that happens to be. I'd go if it was in a hotel or pub just the same. The church doesn't mean anything to me, my attendance at the event does.

With regards to mutterings and singing I don't think I've ever had so much as a funny look for not participating.

(oh and with regards to the kneeling, I don't cause you'd have to then carry me out of the church at the end, especially for catholic services)

EDIT : If you're worried about spontaneously bursting into flames once you cross the threshold I can assure you that doesn't seem to happen. Took me a while to get over that fear

idnkph

Why do you feel the need to do all the muttering along and standing and kneeling?
Sounds like your embarrassed to not believe in the risen to me.
I dont believe in any religion but going to funerals and weddings is just showing a bit of respect to those friends and family that do believe.
If you respect their beliefs they will respect yours.

Birdie Num Num

AllForIt wrote: »

In the case of a wedding - skip the church service and go to the reception. Or maybe attend the church service and sit at the back seat of the church so not everyone would notice I'm not participating - standing up/keeling down/praying etc. Another option would be don't go at all and express my sympathies in some other way.

Sorry, I couldn't resist it.

appledrop

_CreeD_ wrote: »

I attend and respectfully do not participate in the specific rituals (prayers, kneeling etc.).

I woukd agree with this. At the end of the day it's not your wedding so not your decision on type of ceremony. However I wouldn't want to miss it just because I'm not religious. I think with a funeral it is so important to attend to pay respect to the person who has passed away + their families. I will admit I do find funerals the hardest because sometimes the priest nearly views it as a happy time with all the crap about them being in a better place + happy with god. Not much comfort if you don't believe in afterlife. Sometimes the actual person is barely mentioned in among all the religion but again thst was the person's choice on funeral that they wanted.

wexie

appledrop wrote: »

I will admit I do find funerals the hardest because sometimes the priest nearly views it as a happy time with all the crap about them being in a better place + happy with god. Not much comfort if you don't believe in afterlife. Sometimes the actual person is barely mentioned in among all the religion but again thst was the person's choice on funeral that they wanted.

I've noticed a remarkable difference in this between catholic services and COI...
But perhaps that varies from church to church
(not just funerals btw, same with weddings and especially baptisms)

the_syco

AllForIt wrote: »

I don't think I can attend any more catholic funerals, and I think now I should consider ways to deal with them differently.

I attend weddings & funerals out of respect for the person. I don't respond to the prayers, and I don't get the bread.

AllForIt

_CreeD_ wrote: »

I attend and respectfully do not participate in the specific rituals (prayers, kneeling etc.).

the_syco wrote: »

I attend weddings & funerals out of respect for the person. I don't respond to the prayers, and I don't get the bread.

Okay, that was what I had though off doing as I said I think in my OP. I have never seen or heard anyone say they do that until today.

salmocab

The same here for weddings and funerals I go along don’t join in or recite anything but tend to stand and mooch forward for the kneeling as the person behind needs the space for their arms. I don’t feel uncomfortable or anything and barely pay attention. I do shake hands when that bit is done and say peace be with you but that to me is just wishing people a bit of peace without necessarily being religious.
I went to the wife’s uncles funeral years back and he was a monk on an island in Wales and we were treated like guests of honor sitting on pews facing inwards at the altar when they were doing communion the priest came along the front of us giving out the communions and I panicked a bit and made a big show of waving my arms and saying no. The wife still slags me about it.

AllForIt

salmocab wrote: »

The same here for weddings and funerals I go along don’t join in or recite anything but tend to stand and mooch forward for the kneeling as the person behind needs the space for their arms. I don’t feel uncomfortable or anything and barely pay attention. I do shake hands when that bit is done and say peace be with you but that to me is just wishing people a bit of peace without necessarily being religious.
I went to the wife’s uncles funeral years back and he was a monk on an island in Wales and we were treated like guests of honor sitting on pews facing inwards at the altar when they were doing communion the priest came along the front of us giving out the communions and I panicked a bit and made a big show of waving my arms and saying no. The wife still slags me about it.

You see the situations you talk about there are exactly the things I'd fret about happening. I'd be inclined to sit somewhere a bit less conspicuous.

Franz Von Peppercorn

What’s the exact atheist problem with the bread?

I don’t like mass myself - although I do like empty churches. Nevertheless I go and kneel when expected. Mumble with the rest.

Avoid the bread unless to not have it would cause more of a scene. I’ve also gone to Buddhist and Muslim ceremonies

salmocab

AllForIt wrote: »

You see the situations you talk about there are exactly the things I'd fret about happening. I'd be inclined to sit somewhere a bit less conspicuous.

Oh normally I’d be nowhere near the front but it was an odd one because I travelled over with his only family I think in total we were 12 so 6 either side. In fairness I doubt the priests and monks had much dealing with an atheist on their island. Nothing was said after or anything. In general especially at weddings and funerals their is an expectation that not everyone is catholic or even religious just go say nothing and don’t be a dick and nobody will even notice and if they do they won’t care

salmocab

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

What’s the exact atheist problem with the bread?

I don’t like mass myself - although I do like empty churches. Nevertheless I go and kneel when expected. Mumble with the rest.

Avoid the bread unless to not have it would cause more of a scene. I’ve also gone to Buddhist and Muslim ceremonies

Well if your asking me it’s just not for me, I don’t believe so don’t get involved in Catholic practices. I’d think it disrespectful to take it but wouldn’t really care what others do.

wexie

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

What’s the exact atheist problem with the bread?

salmocab wrote: »

Well if your asking me it’s just not for me, I don’t believe so don’t get involved in Catholic practices. I’d think it disrespectful to take it but wouldn’t really care what others do.

Yeah same here for me, considering what it's supposed to represent I'd feel disrespectful and hypocritical taking it.

Having said that I've never had any comments over respectfully declining either.

AllForIt

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

What’s the exact atheist problem with the bread?

For me it would be exactly same problem as doing anything else in a church that would give the impression I am a Catholic and everything that implies. I don't want anyone to think I'm a Catholic.

Franz Von Peppercorn

AllForIt wrote: »

For me it would be exactly same problem as doing anything else in a church that would give the impression I am a Catholic and everything that implies. I don't want anyone to think I'm a Catholic.

Since most people there would be catholic, or cultural catholics, why would you be so ashamed.

Who is going to know but you?

Peregrinus

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

What’s the exact atheist problem with the bread?

I don’t like mass myself - although I do like empty churches. Nevertheless I go and kneel when expected. Mumble with the rest.

Avoid the bread unless to not have it would cause more of a scene. I’ve also gone to Buddhist and Muslim ceremonies

Not taking it should never cause a scene. Nine times out of ten you simply don't approach to take it. If you find somobody approaching you, like the situation salmocab describes, there are conventions for indicating that you don't want it- you cross your arms over you chest, left hand at right shoulder and right hand as left shoulder. It's common for people not to want it, particularly at weddings and funerals, and no conclusions are drawn. It needn't be a drama.

One eyed Jack

AllForIt wrote: »

I was wondering if anyone feels the same way and how do you deal with these situations. If there has been any similar threads on this I'd apprentice a link as I realise this subject has prolly been discussed here before.

I know plenty of people who feel the same way as you do about the whole idea of attending a church or being expected to participate in the mass. I would never think that an adult should feel obligated to participate in religious ceremonies if they aren't of that particular denomination or religion, and there are plenty of people I know who would rather just sit there than participate in the Catholic pilates (I can thank this forum for that phrase, always makes me smile ).

Everyone's experiences and mileage will vary of course, but from my experience just going to mass on Sundays (I am Catholic btw), there are plenty of people in the congregation who have no idea when to do the Catholic pilates, and as for their ability to join in with the prayers? Forget about it :pac:

People are becoming more aware of atheists in Irish society and there aren't too many people in my experience at least who are bothered about what those people choose to do, whether that's refraining from attending church ceremonies, or attending and sitting there not bothering anyone. Hell, at my brothers wedding my mother sitting in the front row decided to nod off just as the couple were about to exchange their vows, snoring like a bear :pac:

I genuinely would say you really shouldn't be so conscious of how you will be judged by other people, and if anyone does take the opportunity to pass judgement upon you for your choices in relation to your own absence or lack of belief or just your decision to do your thing that's not their thing, then that's a reflection on them, not you, and should be seen as such.

AllForIt

Peregrinus wrote: »

Not taking it should never cause a scene. Nine times out of ten you simply don't approach to take it. If you find somobody approaching you, like the situation salmocab describes, there are conventions for indicating that you don't want it- you cross your arms over you chest, left hand at right shoulder and right hand as left shoulder. It's common for people not to want it, particularly at weddings and funerals, and no conclusions are drawn. It needn't be a drama.

Well, given that my arms and legs need to be somewhere, I may as well put them in the position you suggest.

AllForIt

Thanks OEJ. The fact I don't attend church events means I didn't know how attitudes have changed. I wouldn't necessarily fully agree that this attitude extends across the nation though. I live in the rural west. I already came out once in my life to my family and extended family and I'm much more apprehensive about coming out as an atheist to my very old staunch catholic aunts !

I do realise I'm making much more of this than need be OEJ, so thanks again for you post, you have put me at ease.

recedite

For weddings you would probably want to see the happy couple getting married, and for funerals you might want to see hear the eulogies. So for those its best just to go inside, then sit and watch. I don't feel the need to sit at the back, or to pretend to participate.
Sometimes its a less personalised occasion, like a "months mind" or anniversary of a death, communions, confirmations etc. which I wouldn't attend because there's nothing much to miss, so its just not worth the tedium of going inside.

But there could be a social event afterwards. So if I'm going to these I'll arrive an hour or so after the kick off time and just wait for them to come out. Listen to the radio, read a book, whatever. Then do the whole meet and greet and mingle thing. Usually nobody even notices that you weren't inside.
It works out better actually, because you can be one of the first to greet the main stars outside while most others are still caught up in "the great church aisle traffic jam".
Might be a good plan for somebody who didn't want to draw attention to their atheism.

Kidchameleon

Another option would be to get the hell over yourself and just go. You dont have to "mutter" anything. I just dont get this sanctimonious crap, pathetic op, just pathetic.

AllForIt

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Another option would be to get the hell over yourself and just go. You dont have to "mutter" anything. I just dont get this sanctimonious crap, pathetic op, just pathetic.

That's what I like to see - some god damn passion.

seamus

I do think a lot of the "causing a scene" comes from the individual themselves rather than the people around them.

It's very normal and natural to feel self-conscious when you're the only one in a group who's not doing something. If you went to a Mosque, you'd probably feel very "exposed" standing there like a lemon while everyone else prays. Do it five or six times and you'll realise that nobody is really paying attention.

This effect is actually made worse when you're familiar with the rituals. You spent your entire childhood being conditioned to learn the rituals, to participate, for it to be second nature. Sitting in mass hearing the words being spoken, is like listening to a song you know really well coming on the radio; you almost can't help yourself but to sing along.

So in this regard, sitting in mass and not participating is a double-whammy. Not only do you feel self-conscious for what others might think, but you're also fighting your own personal urge to participate in the way that you have done since you first learned to talk.

You get used to it. Do it five or six times and suddenly it doesn't feel weird any more. Also, a lot more people do it now. 15 years ago at any service, I would definitely have been the only person at a church wedding, not participating in the mass. Now there are 3 or 4 people in every pew.

The changes to the text of the Mass have also helped me. It's no longer the same mass I was indoctrinated into. It sounds and feels completely foreign; not at all comfortable and familiar.

iamwhoiam

At my dads funeral a group of Jewish neighbours arrived to his catholic Mass . They came out of respect for him , they shook hands at the sign of peace and stood when asked to stand . They were respectful of his customs . It's actually really simple to just respects others way of life .

robindch

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Another option would be to get the hell over yourself and just go. You dont have to "mutter" anything. I just dont get this sanctimonious crap, pathetic op, just pathetic.

Kid - Welcome back! I don't recall seeing you hereabouts for quite some time, but I hope that you've enjoyed the interim, wherever you've been.

I do unfortunately see, however, that you remain as ready as ever to rain as much wonky incivility as you can down upon people who do not share your religious views.

Improve your posting style or post elsewhere.

Kidchameleon

Sorry yes my bad, apologies. If I may, can I suggest the OP tries not to worry too much about such things. The people around you at these ceremonies probably don't care too much about your beliefs or lack there of so there is no need to "protest".

salmocab

The OP wasn’t talking about protests at all

Kidchameleon

salmocab wrote: »

The OP wasn’t talking about protests at all

Hence I put the word inside quotes