Light rail for Galway

Webbs · 16-01-2018 2:54pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Derry-Galway journeys, at about 300km distance and a void of human habitation in between, are as rare as hens teeth. There's no need to spend so much to accommodate epic international drives when the needs in the Cities are far more pressing.

Mind you not so long ago Dublin folk people would have said the same about Dublin Galway drives ;-)

cgcsb · 16-01-2018 3:12pm

Webbs wrote: »

Mind you not so long ago Dublin folk people would have said the same about Dublin Galway drives ;-)

Derry is not going to be the new Dublin though by any stretch of the imagination.

what_traffic · 16-01-2018 3:43pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Derry is not going to be the new Dublin though by any stretch of the imagination.

True - just compare Galway to Derry Bus Services against Galway to Dublin Bus Services before the M6 was built. Apples and Oranges in terms of demand.

Money to be spent, it should be spent in the Urban areas themselves or nearby - Improving public transport, road network. i.e Letterkenny to Derry, Galway City to Tuam, but the biggest benefit is spending within Galway City itself that is where the greatest demand is. It is far better use of taxpayers money. (everybody in the state is a taxpayer)

Unrealistic · 16-01-2018 3:55pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Derry-Galway journeys, at about 300km distance and a void of human habitation in between, are as rare as hens teeth. There's no need to spend so much to accommodate epic international drives when the needs in the Cities are far more pressing.

To Derry itself maybe but go into UHG and you'll see patients from all over Donegal, including points further from Galway than Derry is, who have to come here as it is their designated centre of excellence for whatever medical condition they are suffering from.

xckjoo · 16-01-2018 3:59pm

Unrealistic wrote: »

To Derry itself maybe but go into UHG and you'll see patients from all over Donegal, including points further from Galway than Derry is, who have to come here as it is their designated centre of excellence for whatever medical condition they are suffering from.

Poor b**tards. Nothing excellent about UHG

cgcsb · 16-01-2018 4:06pm

Unrealistic wrote: »

To Derry itself maybe but go into UHG and you'll see patients from all over Donegal, including points further from Galway than Derry is, who have to come here as it is their designated centre of excellence for whatever medical condition they are suffering from.

The state should just arrange a co-funding deal for sharing medical services between Derry City and Letterkenny. A much more efficient use of resources and carbon miles. Everyone's a winner.

schemingbohemia · 16-01-2018 4:08pm

Unrealistic wrote: »

To Derry itself maybe but go into UHG and you'll see patients from all over Donegal, including points further from Galway than Derry is, who have to come here as it is their designated centre of excellence for whatever medical condition they are suffering from.

There are a lot fewer now than before, a deal was done with Altnagelvin in Derry to treat many Donegal patients. Though I've no idea why there's even any discussion about this in a thread about Galway light rail.

Wombatman · 16-01-2018 4:22pm

Such a horrible idea. Please make it go away. Looks like a child's project for primary school. No real details on routes and impact on traffic. Just Trampower UK chancing their arm. Would love to know who they wined and dined to get it this far.

It's a basically a bus on rails, the big disadvantage being the rails.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160414203915/http://www.gluas.ie/

Hugh Jampton · 16-01-2018 4:34pm

Wombatman wrote: »

Such a horrible idea. Please make it go away. Looks like a child's project for primary school. No real details on routes and impact on traffic. Just Trampower UK chancing their arm. Would love to know who they wined and dined to get it this far.

It's a basically a bus on rails, the big disadvantage being the rails.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160414203915/http://www.gluas.ie/

So Luas in Dublin is a bus on rails then?

Wombatman · 16-01-2018 4:41pm

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

So Luas in Dublin is a bus on rails then?

Dublin is a planned City with wide streets through the city centre.

gordongekko · 19-01-2018 6:40pm

Sure they should never even have brought electricity outside of urban areas. Think of the services they could provide us with the savings. Its such a waste spending money in rural areas.

yer man! · 19-01-2018 6:59pm

Firstly before anything is done in Galway, a bypass is required. It has been in planning since the early 90s and still isn't built. Not a thing can be done in Galway until that is open. If a single car so much as slows down a bit too much in the city during rush hour it's felt across the whole city, it's at way way over capacity. Bypass allows the city to remove cars from a lot of streets.

Once that's done, a BRT would do wonders in Galway. Leap card only, bendy buses with multiple doors and proper platform stops and segregated from regular traffic. It would take off and cost a lot less than a luas to construct.

In addition to this, a double track or more passing loops at least on the railway to Athenry and a commuter train running back and forth with stations at renmore, GMIT, Roscam and outside athenry. Planning then needs allow for massive residential developments near each station.

Storm 10 · 19-01-2018 10:19pm

I can't understand how they built the Oranmore station at its current location, you may as well walk to Galway its so far from the village, I thought the perfect location was next to the level crossing.

yer man! · 19-01-2018 11:10pm

Storm 10 wrote: »

I can't understand how they built the Oranmore station at its current location, you may as well walk to Galway its so far from the village, I thought the perfect location was next to the level crossing.

That's where the old station was and platform still remains. It's a great place for a station that is true, could probably warrant having a station there in addition to the current one.

8kvscdpglqnyr4 · 22-01-2018 3:30pm

yer man! wrote: »

That's where the old station was and platform still remains. It's a great place for a station that is true, could probably warrant having a station there in addition to the current one.

I think Irish Rail sold the land around the platform in the past so they don't own the property anymore (at least not enough property for a station)

The station should have been built in Roscam. It's too far from Oranmore at the moment - most Oranmore residents have to drive to use it. It wouldn't be much harder to drive an extra 2 mins in the coast road to Roscam.

what_traffic · 22-01-2018 4:30pm

gordongekko wrote: »

Sure they should never even have brought electricity outside of urban areas. Think of the services they could provide us with the savings. Its such a waste spending money in rural areas.

No its not. Its a waste providing facilities that are not used. The type of infrastructure & return on investment is what is been discussed here. If you mean building a High Transmission electricity line with gigantic pylons to a small agricultural rural village(that does not have a Aluminum Smelting plant hidden away in a barn) then YES that is always going to be a waste of money.

Humria · 22-01-2018 4:51pm

The Gluas is never going to happen.

It always irritates me when I hear Catherine Connolly tout a light rail system as a means of reducing traffic congestion in Galway.

She spearheads a campaign to turn all the roundabouts into traffic lights, which has a devastating effect on congestion. Then, when asked about reducing congestion, she talks about a light rail system.

To me, that's like planning to eliminate your gambling debt by winning the lotto. It would be nice if it happened but it's very unlikely. In the meantime, the interest on your debt is increasing and you're not doing anything constructive about your problem.

xckjoo · 22-01-2018 5:16pm

Humria wrote: »

The Gluas is never going to happen.

It always irritates me when I hear Catherine Connolly tout a light rail system as a means of reducing traffic congestion in Galway.

She spearheads a campaign to turn all the roundabouts into traffic lights, which has a devastating effect on congestion. Then, when asked about reducing congestion, she talks about a light rail system.

To me, that's like planning to eliminate your gambling debt by winning the lotto. It would be nice if it happened but it's very unlikely. In the meantime, the interest on your debt is increasing and you're not doing anything constructive about your problem.

What's that based on? They seem to have improved things to my eyes. People are awful at using roundabouts.

what_traffic · 22-01-2018 6:11pm

Humria wrote: »

She spearheads a campaign to turn all the roundabouts into traffic lights, which has a devastating effect on congestion. Then, when asked about reducing congestion, she talks about a light rail system.

Really? What are ya basing this on. She might have welcomed the change but spearhead?
TII (the old NRA) are the reason for the N6 Roundabouts been converted into traffic light junctions. They have responsibility for N6 and are the money. They wanted greater priority to be given to the N6 and greater volumes of throughput. Its a National Road.

Humria · 22-01-2018 6:15pm

xckjoo wrote: »

What's that based on? They seem to have improved things to my eyes. People are awful at using roundabouts.

Mostly my own commuting experiences and those of people I know. My father for example, has to leave 35 minutes earlier in the morning, than he did pre-recession, to get to the same place. He drives for a living and spends the day crossing the city.

What I've read suggests that roundabouts are more effective than traffic lights
https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Safety/roundabouts/benefits.htm

Galway congestion is now the worst in the country
http://www.thejournal.ie/galway-bad-traffic-3-3727711-Dec2017/

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gridlock-fears-as-traffic-levels-jump-by-up-to-10pc-in-a-year-35231578.html

I'm wondering how you feel things have improved? Are you a motorist and if so, how many of these intersections do you come across on a daily basis?

xckjoo · 22-01-2018 6:30pm

Humria wrote: »

Mostly my own commuting experiences and those of people I know. My father for example, has to leave 35 minutes earlier in the morning, than he did pre-recession, to get to the same place. He drives for a living and spends the day crossing the city.

What I've read suggests that roundabouts are more effective than traffic lights
https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Safety/roundabouts/benefits.htm

Galway congestion is now the worst in the country
http://www.thejournal.ie/galway-bad-traffic-3-3727711-Dec2017/

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gridlock-fears-as-traffic-levels-jump-by-up-to-10pc-in-a-year-35231578.html

I'm wondering how you feel things have improved? Are you a motorist and if so, how many of these intersections do you come across on a daily basis?

Empirical feeling like your own. Yes I do drive but I'm not getting into a discussion with you to "prove" myself with the amount of junctions I go through. Your empirical evidence is as strong as mine, which is to say not very. We all bring out own biases into it.

I will point out that the recession was 10 years ago so things have moved on since then. The bigger issue is the increase in numbers of cars, not the removal of roundabouts.

Mrs OBumble · 22-01-2018 7:02pm

Humria wrote: »

Mostly my own commuting experiences and those of people I know. My father for example, has to leave 35 minutes earlier in the morning, than he did pre-recession, to get to the same place. He drives for a living and spends the day crossing the city.

I find that very difficult to believe, unless there are some other factors at play, like he needs to start earlier, or there's been a major change on the route (like a motorway opening nearby?)

As someone commented on Twitter the other day, it's the people who choose to walk, bike or catch the bus to work who save the city from grinding to a total halt. We should be celebrating them, and designing things to meet their needs, not car-users needs.

22-01-2018 7:52pm

Humria wrote: »

What I've read suggests that roundabouts are more effective than traffic lights
https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Safety/roundabouts/benefits.htm

Roundabouts are definitely more effective.... Up to a point. After that they become clogged, which is exactly what we saw.... Years of clogged RABs.

The issue with the Galway RABs is that point was passed years previously, hence the need to replace them.

The new junctions allow for the maximum volume through those junctions for all arms. There won't be any further changes made except for minor tweaking.

From now on, the only activity you will see from the councils is to push commuters to more sustainable and higher capacity options (park and ride, cycling, bus lanes, pedestrian zones, increasing parking costs, etc etc etc).

Humria · 22-01-2018 8:12pm

xckjoo wrote: »

Empirical feeling like your own. Yes I do drive but I'm not getting into a discussion with you to "prove" myself with the amount of junctions I go through. Your empirical evidence is as strong as mine, which is to say not very. We all bring out own biases into it.

I will point out that the recession was 10 years ago so things have moved on since then. The bigger issue is the increase in numbers of cars, not the removal of roundabouts.

I don't want you to prove anything. You asked me a question and I answered it as best I could. I'm genuinely interested in your experience and your opinion because it's different to mine.

Humria · 22-01-2018 8:21pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I find that very difficult to believe, unless there are some other factors at play, like he needs to start earlier, or there's been a major change on the route (like a motorway opening nearby?)

As someone commented on Twitter the other day, it's the people who choose to walk, bike or catch the bus to work who save the city from grinding to a total halt. We should be celebrating them, and designing things to meet their needs, not car-users needs.

It's the Ballybrit junction. It priorities the getting on the motorway and Parkmore. It just means it takes a long time to get through them coming from East Galway.

I agree that those on bikes, those who walk and catch the bus should supported. Increasing bus lanes and cycle lanes would be great. I just haven't seen an increase in those forms of transport from increased traffic lights. I'm aware that's just my experience. I'd like to hear about the positive impact of them if you've seen that.

EDIT: What I'm trying to say is, if you're spending that much money, was putting in traffic lights the most effective way of increasing the use of cycling, walking or public transport?

Humria · 22-01-2018 8:27pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Roundabouts are definitely more effective.... Up to a point. After that they become clogged, which is exactly what we saw.... Years of clogged RABs.

The issue with the Galway RABs is that point was passed years previously, hence the need to replace them.

The new junctions allow for the maximum volume through those junctions for all arms. There won't be any further changes made except for minor tweaking.

From now on, the only activity you will see from the councils is to push commuters to more sustainable and higher capacity options (park and ride, cycling, bus lanes, pedestrian zones, increasing parking costs, etc etc etc).

That's interesting. I'm just wondering, given the millions of euro that gone into it why do we have the worst congestion on Ireland. What do you think had caused it? I know there is increased traffic after the recession but why do you think Galway is particularly affected?

22-01-2018 9:07pm

Humria wrote: »

That's interesting. I'm just wondering, given the millions of euro that gone into it why do we have the worst congestion on Ireland. What do you think had caused it? I know there is increased traffic after the recession but why do you think Galway is particularly affected?

Galway is not particularly affected. Simple fact is roads have a capacity. Galway has hit that limit. As to why, it's a medieval town, not enough bridges, traffic bypassing the city has to come within a few hundred meters of the city centre, poor public transport, little to no cycling infrastructure, etc take your pick.

If you want to transport more people on these roads, you need other options than single user cars

xckjoo · 23-01-2018 10:29am

Humria wrote: »

I don't want you to prove anything. You asked me a question and I answered it as best I could. I'm genuinely interested in your experience and your opinion because it's different to mine.

Sorry about that. I was probably a bit defensive. There's a lot of "well I drive so I know best" out there and I thought that was the route you were going down.

From my own observations, we're not the most responsive/alert drivers and there's a lot of people out there that probably aren't suited to driving at all. I think roundabouts are better to a certain size, but then the inefficiencies outweigh the efficiencies. Anecdotally, I find the junctions with roundabouts (like the Headford Rd/Bothar na dTreabh roundabout) slower and more chaotic than those with traffic lights. I do prefer using roundabouts, but only when there was less people on the roads.

Side-Note: I've been making the effort to leave the car at home this year and take the bus or cycle. The bus is great if you live on a good route. The difference in commute time is surprisingly small and I don't have the stress of driving in traffic. It's all about the route though. I can get a bus near door-to-door, and have several backups that are only slightly longer walks.

cgcsb · 23-01-2018 10:38am

Humria wrote: »

That's interesting. I'm just wondering, given the millions of euro that gone into it why do we have the worst congestion on Ireland. What do you think had caused it? I know there is increased traffic after the recession but why do you think Galway is particularly affected?

It's not worse than Dublin or Cork. Relative to it's size it's pretty bad and that's 99% down to the fact that expansion of the city wasn't planned in the 20th Century. Nor was Dublin or Cork mind, but the Galway situation was particularly bad. If in the 1930s all Irish cities followed the example of the then Barcelona extension and pursued a programe of industrialization as per the rest of Europe, it'd be a completely different country no for the better with a lot more domestic industry and there'd be no mega motorways to hamlets.

But instead we had perpetual FF rule and the ideology was ruralisation, we'd all have cottage industry, sell eachother arran sweaters and dance at the crossroads. Big industry was too 'English'. The net result is almost everyone with a brain moved to other countries, the state became even more inward looking, religious delusions and poverty took hold. Even now we are the most rural society in Europe, on a par with Portugal, with 40% of our population living in rural areas, and we're left with a demand for increasingly elaborate and uneconomic services to desolate areas, high speed broadband, 24hr garda stations down boreens etc. There are some rural TDs now calling for a vast network of CCTV cameras to tackle rural crime. All because of a failure to properly plan our future in the 20th Century.

joeKel73 · 23-01-2018 11:10am

Humria wrote: »

EDIT: What I'm trying to say is, if you're spending that much money, was putting in traffic lights the most effective way of increasing the use of cycling, walking or public transport?

Yes traffic light junctions are much more cyclist friendly. Only very confident cyclists will tackle a roundabout and take anything beyond the first couple of exits.

I've noticed a good increase in cyclists over the last few years - but that's just from my personal observation.

I feel a lot of would-be cyclists still avoid the bike because of one or two daunting junctions on their commute/route - Kirwan roundabout would be a big one for a lot of people. It's especially dangerous from motorists using the outside lane beyond the 12 o'clock exit.

Light rail for Galway

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