Light rail for Galway

WillieB1

Hi Recently I went into Holland's Newsagents in Galway, and the girl in there asked me if I would like to sign a petition for the Light rail, which I think is a fantastic idea, but I said is Galway not to small, maybe now it is but in 20 years time they expect the pop to be 140,000, do we wait for the traffic to get worse before we start planning, so I signed up immediately , the more I think about same the better the idea, if its doing such a fantastic job in Dublin why not in Galway. hope to get opinion

WillieB1

thesandeman

You have walked into a minefield just in time for Christmas.

Btw I agree.

dok_golf

Great idea. Right up there with the western rail corridor

nuac

A Light Railway system may be part of a solution to Galway's traffic problem

Outkast_IRE

You really think Galway is going to get the go ahead for light rail before Cork ?

This is Ireland they will only try and sort a problem after it gets desperately bad

colm_mcm

"I hear those things are awfully loud"

ronnie3585

Is there a chance the track could bend?

mrsdewinter

What route do they envisage? I've often thought that the city would be suited to an orbital track that connected the suburbs without going into the city centre, which is, after all, well served by buses.

Fr Tod Umptious

colm_mcm wrote: »

"I hear those things are awfully loud"

"It glides as softly as a cloud"

Fr Tod Umptious

ronnie3585 wrote: »

Is there a chance the track could bend?

"Not on your life my Hindu friend"

youngrun

Would be a great idea,
Potential loops , outer and or inner
Barna, Moycullen, cross the Corrib, Headford Road, Claregalway, Parkmore, Oranmore and city
Or Cappagh Road, Newcastle, cross River, headford Road, Parkmore, Doughiska, Eyre sq

LeinsterDub

Galway doesn't have anywhere near the required population to support it. The green line would move the entire population of Galway in less than a day

lawred2

Now that would be a waste of money

BRT is as much as ever should be invested in Galway

Won't happen for the next 30-40 years.

Removing private cars from the city centre, setting up Park and Rides, adding bus corridors to the main arterial routes and high frequency bus timetables will all see Galway fine until at least 2050.

There is no logical reason for it now.

I’m kinda surprised none of the cyclists here have pointed out the issues the ones in Dublin are having with the Luas. Very dangerous if you’re not careful, a lot of getting the front wheel into the tracks and going over the handlebars. Nasty stuff.

As a matter of history, Galway once did have a tram system that went from Eyre Square to Salthill. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galway_and_Salthill_Tramway#

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I’m kinda surprised none of the cyclists here have pointed out the issues the ones in Dublin are having with the Luas. Very dangerous if you’re not careful, a lot of getting the front wheel into the tracks and going over the handlebars. Nasty stuff.

Is that not a case "look where you are going" for those folks who fell off?

It's like a driver complaining about broken suspension because he didn't slow down for a speed ramp or the

Pay attention and there won't be an issue. I say this as a cyclist

Unrealistic

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Galway doesn't have anywhere near the required population to support it. The green line would move the entire population of Galway in less than a day

It's probably not fair to compare the Galway proposal to the LUAS. Dublin already has five times as many stations as is proposed for Galway, and if you compare the proposed (but not yet built) stations in Dublin the ratio is even higher. There are a number of cities across Europe in the 80,000 to 120,000 population range that have tram or light rail systems, including some that have opened in recent years.

lawred2 wrote: »

Now that would be a waste of money

BRT is as much as ever should be invested in Galway

But, yes, this is a much more sensible option.

Deleted User wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

I’m kinda surprised none of the cyclists here have pointed out the issues the ones in Dublin are having with the Luas. Very dangerous if you’re not careful, a lot of getting the front wheel into the tracks and going over the handlebars. Nasty stuff.

Is that not a case "look where you are going" for those folks who fell off?

It's like a driver complaining about broken suspension because he didn't slow down for a speed ramp or the

Pay attention and there won't be an issue. I say this as a cyclist

I thought that too but some reports I've been hearing have changed my mind. As I understand it there are two main issues.
1) The problem with getting the wheels caught in tracks sometimes isn't just down to not looking where you are going. It has become much more pronounced since the LUAS cross city link opened because the layout there forces bicycles to cross the tracks at a sharper angle so a slight deviation can have a wheel in the groove. Because the road layout is tighter there too it can result in other vehicles getting to close so that taking evasive action is what causes bike wheels to end up in the groove.
2) A separate problem is that the rails apparently get very slippy when it rains and that can bring riders down without wheels needing to get caught.
There's more about it here. http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/cyclists-luas-crash-injuries/

connemara man

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Won't happen for the next 30-40 years.

Removing private cars from the city centre, setting up Park and Rides, adding bus corridors to the main arterial routes and high frequency bus timetables will all see Galway fine until at least 2050.

There is no logical reason for it now.

Just asking the question but just because we don't need it now shouldn't we be planning to need it and where it's going to go?

Like this could be a key part in how the city grows next. Galway is currently suffocating under the crisis management strategy of it's city planning. So maybe literally planning the next 50-60 years of houses, roads, transport, and communities, is the best way to go

Mrs OBumble

Unrealistic wrote: »

There are a number of cities across Europe in the 80,000 to 120,000 population range that have tram or light rail systems, including some that have opened in recent years.

Can you name a few please, so we can make some meaningful comparisons?

I was horrified at the recent public meeting to discover that the comparison being done was with a French city population 240,000. Meaningless. And then someone commented that the light-rail systems in many French cities have had difficulty meeting their projected demand levels anyway - that's with the population already in their cities.

connemara man

connemara man wrote: »

Just asking the question but just because we don't need it now shouldn't we be planning to need it and where it's going to go?

Like this could be a key part in how the city grows next. Galway is currently suffocating under the crisis management strategy of it's city planning. So maybe literally planning the next 50-60 years of houses, roads, transport, and communities, is the best way to go

Yes, that's called the LAP's, local area plans. Already a well established process.

What you are looking for is a complete overhaul of all the rules. Not going to happen in the life of the next 2 governments due to capacity issues

Unrealistic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Can you name a few please, so we can make some meaningful comparisons?

These are some that popped up when I searched.

Aubagne, France; pop. 55k
Besancon, France; pop. 116k
Mestre, Italy; pop. 89k
Bergamo, Italy; pop. 119k
Mulhouse, France; pop. 112k
Valenciennes, France; pop. 44k
Nancy, France; pop. 105k
Orleans, France; pop. 114k
Soller, Spain; pop. 14k
Strausberg, Germany; pop. 26k
Liepaja, Latvia; pop. 69k

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I was horrified at the recent public meeting to discover that the comparison being done was with a French city population 240,000. Meaningless. And then someone commented that the light-rail systems in many French cities have had difficulty meeting their projected demand levels anyway - that's with the population already in their cities.

To be clear, as I already said above, I think a Bus Rapid Transit system is a much more sensible option for Galway. I only pointed out the smaller European cities that have tram or light rail systems because I thought that using the Luas/Dublin as a sole comparison was lazy and/or misleading.

Webbs

Unrealistic wrote: »

These are some that popped up when I searched.

Aubagne, France; pop. 55k
Besancon, France; pop. 116k
Mestre, Italy; pop. 89k
Bergamo, Italy; pop. 119k
Mulhouse, France; pop. 112k
Valenciennes, France; pop. 44k
Nancy, France; pop. 105k
Orleans, France; pop. 114k
Soller, Spain; pop. 14k
Strausberg, Germany; pop. 26k
Liepaja, Latvia; pop. 69k

.

Thanks for the list I was intrigued to see how other places did it and had a bit of a search through the first few and most actually serve a much bigger urban area such as
Bergamo, Italy; pop. 119k densely urbanized area with slightly less than 500,000 inhabitants
Mulhouse, France; pop. 112k 284,739 inhabitants in the metropolitan area


But the one that amazed me and is surely something for Galway to look at is Aubagne, granted the tram project is not really what the GLUAS people are looking at as is only 2.7km long but its their attitude to public transport that got my attention.
Both their buses and Trams are zero fare, how this is funded I am not sure but what a great idea to get people out of cars and into buses, I knew Tallin had a zero fare tram but not with a place of the small size of Aubagne.

Paddico

Keep dreaming lads, wont in the next 40 years.
Unless the find the black stuff in Galway Bay that is .........

talking_walnut

I'm always surprised that so many people seem to be for a light rail system while so many seem against an increase in bus lanes and corridors. Surely that's the cheaper, easier and faster option.


Disclaimer: Purely an anecdotal observation. They might not be the same group of people either.

what_traffic

Gluas article in the IT
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/a-gluas-for-galway-light-rail-project-campaign-revived-1.3347639#.WlNMGu65zjs.twitter

dropping_bombs

talking_walnut wrote: »

I'm always surprised that so many people seem to be for a light rail system while so many seem against an increase in bus lanes and corridors. Surely that's the cheaper, easier and faster option.
.

I think people are against bus lanes etc. because buses in Galway (Ireland?) are very unreliable. I am sure there is not one person in the city who has never has a bad experience with a city bus, and this adds up to a lack of trust in the suppliers.

I do wonder however if there was further privatization of bus routes and park and rides in the city would this improve the bus service and lessen the traffic issues?

xckjoo

dropping_bombs wrote: »

I think people are against bus lanes etc. because buses in Galway (Ireland?) are very unreliable. I am sure there is not one person in the city who has never has a bad experience with a city bus, and this adds up to a lack of trust in the suppliers.

I do wonder however if there was further privatization of bus routes and park and rides in the city would this improve the bus service and lessen the traffic issues?

I've been trying to use them more recently and they've been okay reliability wise. The RTI app and Journey Planner help. Biggest issue is that there's very few bus lanes. Not sure how privatization would help.

what_traffic

dropping_bombs wrote: »

I think people are against bus lanes etc. because buses in Galway (Ireland?) are very unreliable. I am sure there is not one person in the city who has never has a bad experience with a city bus, and this adds up to a lack of trust in the suppliers.

I do wonder however if there was further privatization of bus routes and park and rides in the city would this improve the bus service and lessen the traffic issues?

NO, but Bus Lanes would help current Network and P& R if it is ever rolled out. Only 10% of current Bus Network (for both Public and Private Bus Companies) has bus priority in Galway City.

Mrs OBumble

dropping_bombs wrote: »

I think people are against bus lanes etc. because buses in Galway (Ireland?) are very unreliable. I am sure there is not one person in the city who has never has a bad experience with a city bus, and this adds up to a lack of trust in the suppliers.

I do wonder however if there was further privatization of bus routes and park and rides in the city would this improve the bus service and lessen the traffic issues?

Soo ...

People don't like buses because they're unreliable.

But they're also opposed to the very thing (bus lanes) which would make the buses more reliable.

Logic at its finest.




Re privatisation: we have currently have one state-owned bus operator, and a number of private ones operating in Galway. All of them have the same reliability problems, due to traffic congestion. None of them have the capacity to add extra buses into the system to allow for congestion. (I'm not even sure if the NTA would allow that, even if a company could afford to do it.) On factors other than reliability, I'd say that the state-owned operator is in the middle - some of the private companies are better, but some are worse. Overall, more of it wouldn't make any difference.

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

All of them have the same reliability problems, due to traffic congestion. None of them have the capacity to add extra buses into the system to allow for congestion. (I'm not even sure if the NTA would allow that, even if a company could afford to do it.) On factors other than reliability, I'd say that the state-owned operator is in the middle - some of the private companies are better, but some are worse. Overall, more of it wouldn't make any difference.

+ all of them are asking for the same thing as well - more bus lanes/priority measures, have heard(public transport meetings) and seen(twitter) reps and owners of BusEireann,City Direct and Burkes Bus's all ask for this in the past few months.

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

+ all of them are asking for the same thing as well - more bus lanes/priority measures, have heard(public transport meetings) and seen(twitter) reps and owners of BusEireann,City Direct and Burkes Bus's all ask for this in the past few months.

By all accounts, they'll soon be getting them

what_traffic

Deleted User wrote: »

By all accounts, they'll soon be getting them

Not sure, Council proposals are all over the place.
The cronic addiction they have to Car Parking revenue is not been addressed in a meaningful way in the Galway Transportation Study.

Back to the Light Rail.
In todays Galway Advertiser

Petition for light rail launches on Saturday

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/97771/petition-for-light-rail-launches-on-saturday
"
The petition, which is being organised by Independent Galway West TD Catherine Connolly, will start on Saturday on Shop Street, from 11am to 4pm, and will continue for the next eight weeks
"

xckjoo

what_traffic wrote: »

Not sure, Council proposals are all over the place.
The cronic addiction they have to Car Parking revenue is not been addressed in a meaningful way in the Galway Transportation Study.

Back to the Light Rail.
In todays Galway Advertiser

Petition for light rail launches on Saturday

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/97771/petition-for-light-rail-launches-on-saturday
"
The petition, which is being organised by Independent Galway West TD Catherine Connolly, will start on Saturday on Shop Street, from 11am to 4pm, and will continue for the next eight weeks
"

Can we petition against it?

Jimbob1977

The Western Rail Corridor will always be held up as an example of bad investment. The vastly improved motorway network for cars and express coaches has made the WRC a 'white elephant'.

In terms of a Galway City tram, I could see the potential. It wouldn't have to be fancy.... Maybe a dozen stations (with ample parking) traversing the main suburbs and the City Centre.

From what I hear about Galway City rush hour, it's quite hectic.

what_traffic

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

The Western Rail Corridor will always be held up as an example of bad investment. The vastly improved motorway network for cars and express coaches has made the WRC a 'white elephant'.

In terms of a Galway City tram, I could see the potential. It wouldn't have to be fancy.... Maybe a dozen stations (with ample parking) traversing the main suburbs and the City Centre.

From what I hear about Galway City rush hour, it's quite hectic.

Not sure about adding WRC to the mix? But if you think that the money (€105,000,000) should have been spent on public transport in Galway City /Metropolitan area itself than I would agree with ya. Actually same goes for the Tuam - Gort Motorway (€550,000,000) - alot of money for very low usage it will be a grey elephant for a decade. A few cheaper bypasses would have gotten the same result

Not sure about light rail for Galway, do we have the density for it now? Or in the future? Have not seen evidence that Galway City going down this route. Both rural and urban sprawl
Buses are the cheaper and more flexible. Curtailment of private car usage in the City will have to be done if either of the above is going to work.
On street car parking removal and some multistory car parks in the City should be converted into retail/apartments.

dok_golf

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

The Western Rail Corridor will always be held up as an example of bad investment. The vastly improved motorway network for cars and express coaches has made the WRC a 'white elephant'.

In terms of a Galway City tram, I could see the potential. It wouldn't have to be fancy.... Maybe a dozen stations (with ample parking) traversing the main suburbs and the City Centre.

From what I hear about Galway City rush hour, it's quite hectic.

WRC was a white elephant from day 1 regardless of motorways

cgcsb

talking_walnut wrote: »

I'm always surprised that so many people seem to be for a light rail system while so many seem against an increase in bus lanes and corridors. Surely that's the cheaper, easier and faster option.

Fascinating isn't it. Light rail would actually take up more space than bus lanes would on the road and modern trams can't take corners as handy as a bus can, so more priority at junctions is required. People don't like the bus system because it's unreliable and 99% of it's unreliability is soley due to the lack of dedicated road space.

cgcsb

Regarding transport funding in Galway it's absolutely bonkers. €100mil to re-open the Victorian era railway when for only a slightly higher price we could of had a modern railway to Limerick with double track and delivering good journey times and high frequency.

Half a billion for a motorway to Tuam is also completely bonkers. It'll never reach it's design capacity. Half a billion could have got galway a 2 line tram system with park and ride, a massive array of BRT and quality Bus routes, a network of bicycle lanes to make Amsterdam envious and a pedestrianized City Centre. Car usage and congestion could have been completely wiped out with that money.

schemingbohemia

What route is the GLUAS to take? Have there been any route selection plans carried out or is this all pie in the sky stuff? Struggling to figure out a route that it could take that is feasible, that hits the transport nodes required and that would not bring the city to a standstill during construction.
Surely more, continuous bus lanes with park and rides would make more sense - cheaper and easier to implement.

It's at the crayon drawing on maps phase.

cgcsb

schemingbohemia wrote: »

What route is the GLUAS to take? Have there been any route selection plans carried out or is this all pie in the sky stuff? Struggling to figure out a route that it could take that is feasible, that hits the transport nodes required and that would not bring the city to a standstill during construction.
Surely more, continuous bus lanes with park and rides would make more sense - cheaper and easier to implement.

Essentially it won't happen. If that amount of money was available and you had a government that wasn't idealogically opposed to public transport, Galway would have a number of bus only streets continues bus lanes into the suburbs and 3 or 4 BRT routes with park n ride operating at 10 minute frequency at peak times with excellent journey times.

xckjoo

Looks like something might be happening early 2019: http://connachttribune.ie/city-councils-e1-billion-plan-get-galway-moving-033/

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

Essentially it won't happen. If that amount of money was available and you had a government that wasn't idealogically opposed to public transport, Galway would have a number of bus only streets continues bus lanes into the suburbs and 3 or 4 BRT routes with park n ride operating at 10 minute frequency at peak times with excellent journey times.

The first part of that is essentially what is proposed in the Galway transport strategy.

http://www.galwaycity.ie/galway-transport-strategy

dok_golf

cgcsb wrote: »

Regarding transport funding in Galway it's absolutely bonkers. €100mil to re-open the Victorian era railway when for only a slightly higher price we could of had a modern railway to Limerick with double track and delivering good journey times and high frequency.

Half a billion for a motorway to Tuam is also completely bonkers. It'll never reach it's design capacity. Half a billion could have got galway a 2 line tram system with park and ride, a massive array of BRT and quality Bus routes, a network of bicycle lanes to make Amsterdam envious and a pedestrianized City Centre. Car usage and congestion could have been completely wiped out with that money.

That motorway was to allow Enda's constituents an easy run to do a day's shopping in galway or Limerick.

dok_golf

If they are going to build a Gluas, then they should put it underground. You know, just to future proof it against the expected demand in 3177.

KevR

cgcsb wrote: »

Regarding transport funding in Galway it's absolutely bonkers. €100mil to re-open the Victorian era railway when for only a slightly higher price we could of had a modern railway to Limerick with double track and delivering good journey times and high frequency.

Half a billion for a motorway to Tuam is also completely bonkers. It'll never reach it's design capacity. Half a billion could have got galway a 2 line tram system with park and ride, a massive array of BRT and quality Bus routes, a network of bicycle lanes to make Amsterdam envious and a pedestrianized City Centre. Car usage and congestion could have been completely wiped out with that money.

Such a shame that a road has been built that will meet demand for the next 50 years, providing reliable journey times between Galway and Limerick (and hopefully onto Cork eventually).

Rule of thumb for building any transport infrastructure in Ireland is that it should be close to its capacity limit upon opening and exceeding it within 10-15 years.
Congested. Unpleasant. Stressful. :rolleyes:


I always refer to the Athlone Bypass in this type of conversation. People could have made the case at the time of planning (more than 35 years ago) that it was hugely over spec. A far cheaper non-grade separated road (horrible roundabouts) with only one lane in each direction would have been sufficient for at least 20+ years. Thankfully it was decided to go with a high spec solution despite the extra cost. It is still providing fast and reliable journey times all these years later.

Grassey

KevR wrote:

It is still providing fast and reliable journey times all these years later.

Fast.. Is that because nobody observes the 100km/h speed limit?

Unrealistic

Grassey wrote: »

Fast.. Is that because nobody observes the 100km/h speed limit?

I find that the majority do, or stay within a couple of km of it. I've noticed when doing the Galway-Dublin route recently that, if I stay exactly on the speed limit, I'm one of the faster cars on the road. It might be due to the fact that the Traffic Corps are becoming more noticeable. Last Saturday I saw them stopping cars on three separate stretches of motorway between Galway and Dublin airport. You still get passed every so often by a gob$h!te doing 140+ but it's much less common than speeding on urban roads. As an experiment I made a conscious effort to stay under 50km/h on Bothar na dTreabh a couple of times recently. Absolutely no one was willing to match speed with me. Every single car chose to overtake me, breaking the speed limit by a significant percentage in the process.

Wagon360

xckjoo wrote: »

Can we petition against it?

Sure you can. Someone petitioned against Jazz on Radio Eireann back in the 30s so there is a precedent.

Whereisgalway

Mrs O Bumble were there many signatures collected today?

Mrs OBumble

Whereisgalway wrote: »

Mrs O Bumble were there many signatures collected today?

I have no idea.

And am confused that you even think I would.... (my IRL name is not CC if thats what you were implying! )