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NASRPC's exit of the Sport Coalition.

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    #242
    Walter Mittys Brother
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 314 ✭✭Walter Mittys Brother


    Tac ...... Answer the questions ...... Your doing yourself no good otherwise

    Gardai looked for 5 rounds mags.......why 5 when most comps still use 6?


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    #243
    Gleefulprinter
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭Gleefulprinter


    Class where are you getting your info from? The only things you have posted that I’ve seen are from years ago. I know they rejoined two years ago but there was a lot of stuff done at that agm. Tensions were high. There was a vote and people voted in favour of rejoining.


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    #244
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Gleefulprinter wrote: »
    Class where are you getting your info from?
    What info?

    I'm looking for info, not giving it.
    Gleefulprinter wrote:
    The only things you have posted that I’ve seen are from years ago.
    The actions i mentioned were in direct response to your question:
    Cass wrote:
    Gleefulprinter wrote:
    Cass wrote: »
    Also i'm not a member of the NASRPC and never will be. Given their history and track record of secret proposals and end runs coupled with their flip flop attitude depending on how the wind blows, how could you be a member of such a group.

    Thats a fairly serious thing to say about an organisation. Did they ever properly leave the SC? What other secret proposals are you talking about?
    As for leaving the so called coalition. This thread is all about them leaving. Red the first page or two of posts. If that is not enough then read this from November 2015.
    I know they rejoined two years ago but there was a lot of stuff done at that agm. Tensions were high. There was a vote and people voted in favour of rejoining.
    That is the info i'm asking for.

    Was there a vote? If so then it must be in the minutes so should be easy enough to find out.

    Secondly if there was a vote then why did they not rejoin until April of this year (that is the date on the letter sent out by the NASRPC and signed off as being a member of the sc). Also why did their logo not appear on the sc website until a few weeks back, causing the revival of this thread?
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    #245
    gunny123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭gunny123


    Can I ask Tackleberry, what is your relationship with the nasrpc and sc please ? You seem to be the only person on here defending the indefensible. Are you possibly playing the devil's advocate ?


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    #246
    Tackleberry.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Tackleberry.


    gunny123 wrote: »
    Can I ask Tackleberry, what is your relationship with the nasrpc and sc please ? You seem to be the only person on here defending the indefensible. Are you possibly playing the devil's advocate ?

    I am merely an active shooter within the NASRPC, I would of considered said proposal as old news never to come to fruition but it would seem the rejoining of the NASRPC to the SC has reignited the past and the concerns of many.,

    Just as a side note my Club is AnRiocht it is a very active NASRPC shooting club with probably the most to lose if these proposals where to unfold...
    1,They shoot the only centrefire SemiAuto Competition I know of...
    2,There's plenty of foxing and night shooting members in the club myself included..
    All the other items of course impact everyone but I know if the two items above where any bit of an issue we at AnRiocht would be all be put to task, that's why I'm not worried about something that has not happened or won't happen.
    The relationship between AnRiocht and NASRPC is a close one, I've witnessed the NASRPC having to answer our Committee/Range owners questions at meetings in the past, AnRiocht won't and doesn't let things slide.. I have to hand it to them that there are active and up to date on shooting matters. Hence you understand my approach to all of this.,

    Tac


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    #247
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,956 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Gleefulprinter wrote: »
    Class where are you getting your info from? The only things you have posted that I’ve seen are from years ago. I know they rejoined two years ago but there was a lot of stuff done at that AGM. Tensions were high. There was a vote and people voted in favour of rejoining.

    I was there too, and ASFIK, there were no minutes taken in the first half of the meeting.Which consisted of much shouting and getting the ostracised clubs back on board and no confidence motions and votes in the old committee.

    Now I will say, I STAND 100% open to being corrected on this Re minutes, but from my obs and even into the second half until I left, it seemed sketchy at best and with people leaving as the evening wore on I honestly can't remember anyone proposing a motion to rejoin or leave the SC??

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #248
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Tackleberry. wrote: »
    ................ I would of considered said proposal as old news never to come to fruition but it would seem the rejoining of the NASRPC to the SC has reignited the past and the concerns of many.,
    The reason for my consternation is simple.

    The proposals submitted by the sc, which included to temporarily cap the number of semi auto rifles, was enacted. It's illegal to put a temporary cap or temp ban so as i explained earlier the Minister's actions of making a statement and allowing for any future legislation to be back dated has seen an end to licensing of them.

    The proposals are not a one time deal. By this i mean they have been submitted and while not many or all of them were enacted they have been submitted and i was told some three months ago by "my" rep on the FCP that the proposal on night time shooting is still live within the FCP and the working group. Meaning it can be revisited, discussed and possibly implemented at any point.

    Any group joining the sc from the date those proposals were submitted are saying we agree with this group and it's proposals.

    Now off current events and onto future ones. The sc made proposals in Fe, but only announced them in April when they were already found out about. What is to stop them making fresh proposals with the same type of calls for bans. curfews, stricter controls, etc. This time with the backing of all the groups and the nasrpc?
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    #249
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,956 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Tackleberry. wrote: »

    .

    ,
    They shoot the only centrefire SemiAuto Competition I know of...

    Bullseye 360, Midlands of which I invited personally two of your members to attend..All the Limerick semi-auto court cases gang.:)
    All the other items of course impact everyone but I know if the two items above where any bit of an issue we at AnRiocht would be all be put to task, that's why I'm not worried about something that has not happened or won't happen.
    The relationship between An Riocht and NASRPC is a close one, I've witnessed the NASRPC having to answer our Committee/Range owners questions at meetings in the past, AnRiocht won't and doesn't let things slide.. I have to hand it to them that there are active and up to date on shooting matters. Hence you understand my approach to all of this.,

    Well then for pig iron then, why not get these questions asked? I certainly know that the two Paddies would not be adverse to asking for their good and blunt Kerry manner about WTF is this about if need be?If it is all BS, well then this is a great time to clarify it and put Cass in his box? It would seem pretty logical to me that NASRPC should put up some sort of statement on this by now..

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #250
    Gleefulprinter
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭Gleefulprinter


    I text a committee member and he said the request has to come through the clubs for information.


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    #251
    Tackleberry.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Tackleberry.


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Bullseye 360, Midlands of which I invited personally two of your members to attend..All the Limerick semi-auto court cases gang.:)

    I may well stand corrected but can’t this competition be shot with any Centre fire rifle...bolt lever action etc.. is there a semi only event? as you well know It can can be deemed unnecessary for you to own a semi auto if said comp can be shot with other rifles ie bolt lever action etc..

    The competition in Kerry is solely for Semi Centerfire rifles, again as you well know.


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    #252
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,759 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Tackleberry. wrote: »

    Just as a side note my Club is AnRiocht it is a very active NASRPC shooting club with probably the most to lose if these proposals where to unfold...

    1,They shoot the only centrefire SemiAuto Competition I know of...

    Tac

    Eh, M1 Carbine comps are shot in more places than An Riocht.


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    #253
    Tackleberry.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Tackleberry.


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Eh, M1 Carbine comps are shot in more places than An Riocht.

    Ture but we ain't talking solely about M1s there are many other types of semis shot in AnRiocht


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    #254
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    What type of semi autos? Vintage, new, both?
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    #255
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    So i got the minutes of the AGM you were talking about.

    There is only one mention of the FCP and no mention of the sc. The question posed was who will represent the nasrpc on the FCP. The reply was the man holding he position has vacated that position, which was followed by discussion as to whether he wanted to go or not. The committee were told to ring the man, and the debate ended with the committee taking it under advisement.

    No record of a vote to join the sc. Not even a mention of the sc. So:
    1. When was this motion made to rejoin?
    2. When was the vote taken on this motion?
    3. What was the result of this vote?
    4. Why is there no record of it in the minutes?
    Appreciate any light you can shine on this.
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    #256
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,956 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Tackleberry. wrote: »
    I may well stand corrected but can’t this competition be shot with any Centre fire rifle...bolt lever action etc.. is there a semi only event? as you well know It can can be deemed unnecessary for you to own a semi auto if said comp can be shot with other rifles ie bolt lever action etc..

    The competition in Kerry is solely for Semi Centerfire rifles, again as you well know.

    NOPE! it was and is accepted as "good reason" to own and use a semi. Yes it can be shot with whatever you bring on the day,but we specifically pushed it for semi-autos.And if there is enough people showing up with SA's we can run a competition with that segment.And No I dont well know,as I am not a member,and dont have a schedule as to when they are being held.Last one i arrived and "shot",I spent more time in the butt than actually shooting any semi auto for the F class lads.No problem with that,but it would be nice to actually shoot a competition if there is one advertised.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #257
    LB6
    Registered Users Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭LB6


    Cass wrote: »
    So:
    1. When was this motion made to rejoin?
    2. When was the vote taken on this motion?
    3. What was the result of this vote?
    4. Why is there no record of it in the minutes?
    Appreciate any light you can shine on this.

    1. It wasn't on the list of motions for discussion - never happened.
    2. It wasn't done.
    3. No results for non-existant vote
    4. Hmmmmm - ah because it never happened! :rolleyes:


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    #258
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    It's been five days and everyone has had the long weekend.

    So i was wondering if those that said the nasrpc voted to rejoin the sc could show when and where this happened because it was said it happened two years ago at the AGM but the minutes show this not to be the case. They only put their logo on the sc website in June this year yet letters from April of this year are signed off as nasrpc/sc.

    Again, as with everything i've said and done, i've backed all this up with links, quotes and excerpts from their own documents. Not mine, theirs.
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    #259
    jb88
    Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭jb88


    Cass wrote: »
    The reason for my consternation is simple.

    The proposals submitted by the sc, which included to temporarily cap the number of semi auto rifles, was enacted. It's illegal to put a temporary cap or temp ban so as i explained earlier the Minister's actions of making a statement and allowing for any future legislation to be back dated has seen an end to licensing of them.


    Why so many new licences being granted when they are going to be taken away at some later stage, doesnt make sense to me, how was this "enacted"?

    I know of one person who in the last 6 months has had two restricted semi auto centrefire rifle licences granted. and and there are at least 5 - 6 more in the same boat, with recently granted licences.

    I have also heard of an RFD tell me you cant get a CF semi auto rifles and numerous other people through various other channels say its not possible, but yet it is.
    Until its in the legislation, which it is not "YET", then if you have the right paperwork and you are legally entitled to hold that firearm, get what you want.

    Enough scaremongering Please.


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    #260
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,956 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    My Take on this...
    Why so many new licences being granted when they are going to be taken away at some later stage, doesnt make sense to me, how was this "enacted"?

    See CF pistols in 2008.Its revenue to the state and they do not give a flying about your licensing issues afterwards..Their short answer would be
    "Sue us then!"

    I know of one person who in the last 6 months has had two restricted semi-auto centrefire rifle licences granted. and and there are at least 5 - 6 more in the same boat, with recently granted licences.

    WHAT TYPE??Whats the betting they are M1carbines? Got a "recognised NASRPC competition" for those.A bit difficult to claim the same for a SIG 550.. It's still a bit of the "idontlikedelookodat now!" clause out there.Somehow an M1carbine in 30 cal is less dangerous in wood and being 70 years old than a modern sporting rifle...Seven licenses is hardly on par with the pistol rush of 06, and probably hasn't spooked anyone...Yet.
    I have also heard of an RFD tell me you cant get a CF semi-auto rifles and numerous other people through various other channels say it's not possible, but yet it is.

    While BS, hardly surprising..Dealer orders in a 2grand+/- semi-auto rifle for some fellah who has a passing fancy for one and is told to go jump by his CS and isn't willing to see the game into the district court.The dealer is left sitting with a 2grand gun that's more or less unsellable and/or waiting a couple of years for payment until the court decides yay/nay.So best to fob off a potential problem and loss of income..

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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    #261
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Why so many new licences being granted when they are going to be taken away at some later stage, doesnt make sense to me, how was this "enacted"?
    Enacted may be the wrong word, but we don't have a good word for "effectively notified that they may be subject to a possible future ban".

    This was done (or at least, something very similar was done) when restricted short firearms were barred from new licences being issued.

    On the other hand, the amount of time (and the effective change in Minister) since that announcement was made is substantially larger than with the 2008 announcement --
    that one was made in November 2008, in the front page of most of the newspapers, and actually announced a ban, rather than saying that a ban might be imposed in the future depending on developments.

    I'm not saying that it's all clear - no such thing exists in our sports - but as statements went, that one was pretty safe (any thing, firearm or not, might be banned in the future depending on developments). The reason for the concern is not so much the probability of a ban; it's that in the event that such a ban was brought in, there would be a chance that any grandfathering cutoff would be set at the Minister's statement, thus significantly reducing the number of firearms that would be grandfathered.

    Of course, fighting that is the payoff for grandfathering at all (namely reducing resistance to an unpopular bill).

    Basically, it's an added risk in an already confused situation :(


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    #262
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    jb88 wrote: »
    Why so many new licences being granted when they are going to be taken away at some later stage, doesnt make sense to me, how was this "enacted"?
    Firstly, how many is "so many"? Numbers please otherwise it's just your opinion.

    Secondly, and as touched on above, how many lads are aware the Minister made a statement with a view to introducing legislation to "ban" semi auto rifles with Grandfathering being possible but only up to the date of her statement. That was in late 2015. So anyone that has bought one in the last 20 - 22 months may face a serious fight or simply a revocation of their license if the new Minister intends to introduce legislation.

    Thirdly, and i've mentioned this umpteen times on the forum, if new legislation is introduced then a ban of some sort will occur. The problem with this, other than lads loosing their firearms, is the uncertainty off it. The Minister can draft/enact legislation at any point. So the longer it goes on the less certain the future of these types of firearms are.

    Lastly, the enacted i was referring to was a "stealth ban". I call it this as i've met with about 18 to 22 lads over the last 12 months that have shown great interest in buying a semi auto but when they discover the issue above with the statement, etc. they're first thought is to wait and see what happens.

    So if lads are buying them still, in however small or large numbers, then great, but if the threat of a possible/future ban was lifted or not there in the first place that number could be much higher.

    At last count, and these are figures from a few years back so they're not accurate today, there were 167 semi auto centrefire rifles in the country. I'd love to know what that number is now, and what it could have been had the lads that hesitated gone ahead with their purchase.
    I know of one person who in the last 6 months has had two restricted semi auto centrefire rifle licences granted. and and there are at least 5 - 6 more in the same boat, with recently granted licences.
    Great, delighted for them. The more the merrier.

    As above, if new legislation is introduced then like the pistol ban of 2009 it'll be/can be backdated to the date the statement the Minister made (with pistols the statement was made in Nov 2008, but not enacted till June 2009. I know cause i almost got caught myself). Meaning they'll find themselves, in the best case scenario, fighting in court to keep them or worse case having their licenses either not renewed or revoked.
    I have also heard of an RFD tell me you cant get a CF semi auto rifles and numerous other people through various other channels say its not possible, but yet it is.
    I have said dozens of times that they are not banned despite the best efforts of the so called coalition. I have corrected people here, and on the range. I've also corrected two RFDs that have told people they're banned. It was on the back of their [so called coalition] proposal to introduce a temporary cap that all this came about.

    Funnily enough their proposed cap only covered semi auto firearms after 1950. So whose interests are being looked after there? It's clear it's not anyone with a modern platform.
    Until its in the legislation, which it is not "YET", then if you have the right paperwork and you are legally entitled to hold that firearm, get what you want.
    Correct.
    Enough scaremongering Please.
    How exactly am i scaremongering?
    • Semi autos still available - check
    • Minister statement in 2015 which legislation can be back dated to like was done with pistols - check
    • So called coalition the ones that proposed it - check
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    #263
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,759 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Sparks wrote: »
    Enacted may be the wrong word, but we don't have a good word for "effectively notified that they may be subject to a possible future ban".

    I've mentioned before that I'm baffled as to how the Minister backdated a ban based on what he said in the Dail back in 2008.

    What legal mechanism enables a Minister to do such a thing?

    Is there an Act or SI that gives a Minister this power because if there isn't, then they are exceeding their authority.


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    #264
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Not even in the Dail; on the front pages of the press.
    He then instructed those who draft the legislation that he wanted a ban from that day forwards. Somehow the Dail read that as being the same as having passed the legislation and we got a grandfathering situation where any licence granted after Nov2008 but before the Bill became an Act in 2009 being deemed null and void.
    It might well have been unlawful; but you'd have to go to the supreme court to prove it and have it changed. And that's expensive, risky, and you can't even just walk up and lodge a case with them, they have to grant you permission to do so (effectively, I'm paraphrasing just a tad as I'm sure you know).


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    #265
    jb88
    Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭jb88


    Cass wrote: »
    The reason for my consternation is simple.

    The proposals submitted by the sc, which included to temporarily cap the number of semi auto rifles, was enacted. It's illegal to put a temporary cap or temp ban so as i explained earlier the Minister's actions of making a statement and allowing for any future legislation to be back dated has seen an end to licensing of them.

    The proposals are not a one time deal. By this i mean they have been submitted and while not many or all of them were enacted they have been submitted and i was told some three months ago by "my" rep on the FCP that the proposal on night time shooting is still live within the FCP and the working group. Meaning it can be revisited, discussed and possibly implemented at any point.

    Any group joining the sc from the date those proposals were submitted are saying we agree with this group and it's proposals.

    Now off current events and onto future ones. The sc made proposals in Fe, but only announced them in April when they were already found out about. What is to stop them making fresh proposals with the same type of calls for bans. curfews, stricter controls, etc. This time with the backing of all the groups and the nasrpc?
    Cass wrote: »
    Firstly, how many is "so many"? Numbers please otherwise it's just your opinion.

    Secondly, and as touched on above, how many lads are aware the Minister made a statement with a view to introducing legislation to "ban" semi auto rifles with Grandfathering being possible but only up to the date of her statement. That was in late 2015. So anyone that has bought one in the last 20 - 22 months may face a serious fight or simply a revocation of their license if the new Minister intends to introduce legislation.

    Thirdly, and i've mentioned this umpteen times on the forum, if new legislation is introduced then a ban of some sort will occur. The problem with this, other than lads loosing their firearms, is the uncertainty off it. The Minister can draft/enact legislation at any point. So the longer it goes on the less certain the future of these types of firearms are.

    Lastly, the enacted i was referring to was a "stealth ban". I call it this as i've met with about 18 to 22 lads over the last 12 months that have shown great interest in buying a semi auto but when they discover the issue above with the statement, etc. they're first thought is to wait and see what happens.

    So if lads are buying them still, in however small or large numbers, then great, but if the threat of a possible/future ban was lifted or not there in the first place that number could be much higher.

    At last count, and these are figures from a few years back so they're not accurate today, there were 167 semi auto centrefire rifles in the country. I'd love to know what that number is now, and what it could have been had the lads that hesitated gone ahead with their purchase.


    Great, delighted for them. The more the merrier.

    As above, if new legislation is introduced then like the pistol ban of 2009 it'll be/can be backdated to the date the statement the Minister made (with pistols the statement was made in Nov 2008, but not enacted till June 2009. I know cause i almost got caught myself). Meaning they'll find themselves, in the best case scenario, fighting in court to keep them or worse case having their licenses either not renewed or revoked.


    I have said dozens of times that they are not banned despite the best efforts of the so called coalition. I have corrected people here, and on the range. I've also corrected two RFDs that have told people they're banned. It was on the back of their [so called coalition] proposal to introduce a temporary cap that all this came about.

    Funnily enough their proposed cap only covered semi auto firearms after 1950. So whose interests are being looked after there? It's clear it's not anyone with a modern platform.

    Correct.

    How exactly am i scaremongering?
    • Semi autos still available - check
    • Minister statement in 2015 which legislation can be back dated to like was done with pistols - check
    • So called coalition the ones that proposed it - check

    "Lastly, the enacted i was referring to was a "stealth ban". I call it this as i've met with about 18 to 22 lads over the last 12 months that have shown great interest in buying a semi auto but when they discover the issue above with the statement, etc. they're first thought is to wait and see what happens. "

    Issues with statements, come on now. So if those guys believe or listen to what you say then its their fault, If they want one then apply the same way everyone else does.

    Your above statement is scaremongering, as it is the spreading of information which is not necessarily correct.

    Apply if you want one, pay upfront and take your chance with the AGS. But go prepared and have a history and a lot of good reasons. Competitive history etc.

    Its not for plinking. Its like this, right now there is no law which says you cant have centrefire semi automatics, as long as the firearm and you meet the conditions.

    You need to put your CF Pistol history and issues aside lads, honestly. Its a well trodden road at this stage and not one for this thread.


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    #266
    Walter Mittys Brother
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 314 ✭✭Walter Mittys Brother


    jb88 wrote: »
    But go prepared and have a history and a lot of good reasons. Competitive history etc.

    Its not for plinking.

    Bad precedent to set. We're not all comp junkies. Why shouldn't you get one to "plink" at your local range?


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    #267
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »
    Bad precedent to set. We're not all comp junkies. Why shouldn't you get one to "plink" at your local range?

    There's a difference between being a "competition junkie" and getting one for target shooting, yes; but I would be cautious about the use of overly casual language. You go in and say you want one for plinking and the first thing you might hear back could be "if you're just plinking, won't a .22lr do you just as well and be cheaper to boot? I mean, if it's just plinking, why won't 50m do? Why does it have to be 300?".


    (and by the way, it'd be a completely reasonable statement - if you're getting one just because you want to have one as opposed to getting one because there's something you want to use one for... is that really the kind of culture you want at your local range? "Good reason" doesn't have to be "The Olympics And Nothing Lesser" or some such nonsense and Ministers have officially said so - but "I want one" still won't clear the bar and shouldn't).


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    #268
    gunny123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭gunny123


    Not plinking, "informal and club competitions" .


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    #269
    Cadpat_cowboy
    Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭Cadpat_cowboy


    is that really the kind of culture you want at your local range?

    Why would you not like to see this? Would it not be good for the shooting community if there was growth in semi auto rifle ownership?

    I am new to shooting so sorry if this is a dump question.


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    #270
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    jb88 wrote: »
    Issues with statements, come on now. So if those guys believe or listen to what you say then its their fault, If they want one then apply the same way everyone else does.
    Being a member or former member of the NASRPC i can understand your surprise at being given all the available inforamtion, but most people like to know if something they intend to buy has the possibility of being taken from them.

    Back in say January of 2009 if someone approached you and asked if they should buy a C/F pistol, you are saying you'd tell them to go for it? You wouldn't have warned them that doing so will/would result in them loosing it come June 2009?
    Your above statement is scaremongering, as it is the spreading of information which is not necessarily correct.
    So you're basing the accusation of scaremongering on the possibility of my information being incorrect?

    You're not even saying it's wrong,only that it's possibly wrong. The reason you cannot say i'm wrong is twofold:
    • I didn't say they would be banned, only that given the Minster's statement the option to do so it there.
    • You cannot guarantee they won't be banned.
    Apply if you want one,
    Absolutely.
    pay upfront
    Poor advice. You own it regardless of whether you license it or not (and i don't mean it in relation to this topic, i just mean if someone gets refused on "normal" grounds)
    and take your chance with the AGS.
    I presume you mean about the "post code lottery" system we have?
    But go prepared and have a history and a lot of good reasons. Competitive history etc.
    Competitions and competitive history are not prerequisites of licensing. I got mine with no history of comp attendance. I gave my reasons, and i got it.
    Its not for plinking.
    Why?
    Its like this, right now there is no law which says you cant have centrefire semi automatics, as long as the firearm and you meet the conditions.
    Correct again.
    You need to put your CF Pistol history and issues aside lads, honestly. Its a well trodden road at this stage and not one for this thread.
    Yet the same groups come back time and again. Each time someone like you says "it's in the past" and we should move on.

    How many times, and i said this the last time too, do we ignore the actions of a few that have consequences for many? At some point it's not a series of individual actions but a pattern.
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    #271
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Cadpat_cowboy wrote: »
    Why would you not like to see this? Would it not be good for the shooting community if there was growth in semi auto rifle ownership?

    No, it wouldn't be, not in the medium or long term and possibly not in the short term. Yes, you want to see people interested in target shooting showing up more and get more people like that into the sport and you should work to reduce or remove any barriers to that. But that's not the same thing as wanting to see people showing up who just want to unload a boomstick into sandbags (and don't really care if there are targets or not). People who just want to do that and who aren't into the whole "competition" thing (informal or not) will also not be into the whole "safety" thing and things like "range ettiquette" or "basic cop-on".

    And I'm not saying anything new here either. You show up at any range in the country today and try to pull stupid stunts, you'll get uninvited in a fair hurry the moment the RO sees you doing so. Nobody wants to get injured because some yahoo wanted to make a lot of noise and didn't care where the lead was going. I don't think I've ever been on a range in Ireland where there weren't rules against that.


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