Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

At what point does right wing just mean racist/d1ck/heartless baxtard?

1…6791112…17

Comments

  • #242
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Two Tone wrote: »
    Crap article though. Not being rich does not make a person "poor". Perhaps the article was just tongue-in-cheek though.

    I didn't read it either, I presumed it was a piss take or else the IT is going all click bait.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #243
    Olishi4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭Olishi4


    Two Tone wrote: »
    Of course not. Although I don't understand for the life of me why it is fashionable to criticise people increasing their own private wealth (once there is no exploitation/abuse/insane greed involved). Entrepreneurship is a great thing in my opinion - it is what allows any of us start a business. Doing same and having a social conscience are not mutually exclusive.

    I agree the rich get a free pass from some media outlets - most of all Independent Newspapers, with its embarrassing fawning over Ireland's "elite". I remember that item about au pairs too - I think it was an opinion piece by some bloke who was trying to be controversial. Generally I don't think the Times would be like that.

    But I do not agree poor people are badly treated in this country. I think they are in e.g. the United States for sure (great country in many ways but the social inequalities are abysmal, and it's a cop-out to say everyone is born with the same chances - balderdash) but in Ireland there is a fair social supports system and much more opportunities. Poverty is not always the fault of the government or that handy faceless group (yet which we are all part of): "society". But compassion is, and despite what the relentless naysayers about Ireland claim, we (and heartless bankers are not the only people among "we") are a caring bunch when put to the test.

    This is from an article in the Times from CSO figures in 2013. Not poor bashing mind however it does show that when "put to the test", and the downturn, figures of those in poverty doubled from 2008 to 2013.

    "Many consider “consistent poverty” a more accurate measure of real deprivation. This includes people who are both living under the poverty threshold – which in 2013 was an after-tax income of €10,531 – and experiencing enforced deprivation. This shows just over 8 per cent of the population – almost 400,000 – were living in consistent poverty in 2013 – the rate in 2008 was 4.2 per cent.
    The worst poverty rates were felt by lone parents, the unemployed, those out of work through illness or disability, and children."

    "Almost 12 per cent of children were living in consistent poverty last year, double the rate at the start of the downturn."

    Enforced deprivation is where people were not able to afford at least two basic items from a list of 11 which include being unable to afford a winter overcoat or to adequately heat their home.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/the-economy-is-growing-and-so-is-poverty-1.2077675

    Does anyone have actual figures of the wealth distribution in Ireland? Are they available?


  • #244
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #245
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,816 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    In the article, which is blatantly tongue in cheek, the poor are described as 'peasants', wearing St Bernard shirts, and as 'unclean paupers' who would 'contaminate' the firs class toilets.

    You are embarrassing yourself using this to support your argument.


  • #246
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Advertisement
  • #247
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #248
    Olishi4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭Olishi4


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    You genuinely believe those are first world problems?


    Can't afford to get your child a birthday present. Cant afford more than one pair of shoes. Can't afford to have a roast dinner, standard meal, not expensive. And instead of old couch, we'l change that to a broken bed for a child. First world problems eh!


  • #249
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Olishi4 wrote: »
    You genuinely believe those are first world problems?


    Can't afford to get your child a birthday present. Cant afford more than one pair of shoes. Can't afford to have a roast dinner, standard meal, not expensive. And instead of old couch, we'l change that to a broken bed for a child. First world problems eh!

    I don't like how you're shoe horning children into every problem on the list to make it sound worse
    But maybe you have a point


  • #250
    Olishi4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭Olishi4


    wakka12 wrote: »
    I don't like how you're shoe horning children into every problem on the list to make it sound worse
    But maybe you have a point

    Oh right we'l just forget about those 12 percent of children in poverty cause you don't like it.


  • #251
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Not unreasonable in a first world country.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Advertisement
  • #252
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #253
    Two Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 513 ✭✭✭Two Tone


    It would not be fair to say there aren't impoverished (relative in comparison to the third world but absolute in the context of living here) people in Ireland, but it is grossly dishonest when people suggest there are not supports/opportunities for them.


  • #254
    Olishi4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭Olishi4


    Two Tone wrote: »
    It would not be fair to say there aren't impoverished (relative in comparison to the third world but absolute in the context of living here) people in Ireland, but it is grossly dishonest when people suggest there are not supports/opportunities for them.

    If the support and opportunities are there then why did the figures dramatically increase from 2008 to 2013?


  • #255
    Olishi4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭Olishi4


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    First World Problem is a slang term given to issues that are not really an issue.

    It is a serious issue if families cannot afford decent meals, replace clothing, adequate heating etc.


  • #256
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #257
    Two Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 513 ✭✭✭Two Tone


    Olishi4 wrote: »
    If the support and opportunities are there then why did the figures dramatically increase from 2008 to 2013?
    Those were the exact years of the recession and its fall-out I guess. Many people had to go from full-time work to social welfare, which is of course a massive jump.


  • #258
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Olishi4 wrote: »
    First World Problem is a slang term given to issues that are not really an issue.

    It is a serious issue if families cannot afford decent meals, replace clothing, adequate heating etc.

    The West has problems all its own.




  • #259
    Olishi4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭Olishi4


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Oh they were probably traumatised after it was revealed that the cheap meat they were buying because they could not afford a roast or a decent cut of meat, was in fact unknowingly to them, horsemeat, so they turned to the drink which led to the gambling to fund it.

    Seriously, the figures of those in poverty show an increase by double when supports and opportunity were decreased during the recession so these were not people who were using those supports for an addiction.

    Anyway I see where you are going with the discussion and I just see it going round in circles. I must say though as someone who prides themselves on not leaving a woman "shivering in the cold" in the name of chivalry, I find the insistent dismissal of the list of 11 from the CSO as "First World Problems" unusual and disparging, considering two of them are that someone does not have adequate heat in their home and cannot afford a winter coat.


  • #260
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,140 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    20Cent wrote: »
    Monsters.
    Hope all those affected by that article are recovering well. There literally is no god in a world where that can happen.

    Or no Galt. :pac:


  • #261
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    I guess we have to tell people who can't afford heating to think globally. Hopefully their central nervous system will readjust to the cold with that in mind.


  • Advertisement
  • #262
    Dolbert
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,154 ✭✭✭Dolbert


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLToN2pjik8


  • #263
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Olishi4 wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    You genuinely believe those are first world problems?


    Can't afford to get your child a birthday present. Cant afford more than one pair of shoes. Can't afford to have a roast dinner, standard meal, not expensive. And instead of old couch, we'l change that to a broken bed for a child. First world problems eh![/quote]

    That means middle class background me has been bouncing in and out of that definition of poverty regularly, mainly because I tend to be a bit bad at money management but I hazard its the same for many people that do consider themselves living in poverty


  • #264
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    There are very good writings on conservatism/to the 'right' views and none of them involve vilifying lone parents, or the poor, ( who ever they are ), all of them ( that I have read anyway ) talk about civic society, nor does blame come in to it.

    I don't know why but any time anything like this come up on AH it seems to descend in to an American shock jock type of vulgar ranting about welfare.

    It's a shame really.


  • #265
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    (Weird can't edit post)

    To add to above: these days no longer bouncing in and out of that definition but during height of recession I was.
    Its not surprising the increase during the recession, people are talking about addiction when poor budgeting is a means much more than that, ask anybody that actually works in the services where they interact with those in poverty and they will talk about how a lot of deprivation is mismanagement.
    The ROI has a problem with deprivation that's inarguable but it also has some of the most generous supports.
    If there is families with 4 generations unemployed even during the celtic tiger that's not economics that's social


  • #266
    Olishi4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭Olishi4


    RDM_83 again wrote: »
    That means middle class background me has been bouncing in and out of that definition of poverty regularly, mainly because I tend to be a bit bad at money management but I hazard its the same for many people that do consider themselves living in poverty

    30 percent of people in 2013 in Ireland were meeting standards of enforced poverty however the 400000 people I am talking about are those in "consistant poverty" which in 2013 was an after-tax income of €10,531 and experiencing enforced deprivation.


  • #267
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Olishi4 wrote: »
    30 percent of people in 2013 in Ireland were meeting standards of enforced poverty however the 400000 people I am talking about are those in "consistant poverty" which in 2013 was an after-tax income of €10,531 and experiencing enforced deprivation.

    Would that not have to be put in context, a 20 year old living at home and going to college could be doing well with an income of 10,531 euros. What about family income supplement which is an excellent example of a social policy that works as it is mean too. How many adults with no other means of support live on that amount of money?, even the state pension is more than that. If they are on welfare they should not be on it for life so their circumstance will change.


  • #268
    Olishi4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭Olishi4


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Would that not have to be put in context, a 20 year old living at home and going to college could be doing well with an income of 10,531 euros. What about family income supplement which is an excellent example of a social policy that works as it is mean too. How many adults with no other means of support live on that amount of money?, even the state pension is more than that.

    The study was done by the CSO and those are the definitions.

    "The worst poverty rates were felt by lone parents, the unemployed, those out of work through illness or disability, and children."


  • #269
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Olishi4 wrote: »
    The study was done by the CSO and those are the definitions.

    "The worst poverty rates were felt by lone parents, the unemployed, those out of work through illness or disability, and children."

    Well except for those with a disability the circumstance could and should change and public policy should be use to enable people to do this, for example affordable child care. In other words being in poverty now does not mean someone will always be in poverty.


  • #270
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Wasn't there an unemployment rate of something like 3.6% during the Celtic tiger. If you take out disabled people, those between jobs that's pretty much 100% of those able to work were. The multiple generation families never working thing is a myth or such a small proportion of the population to be negligible.


  • Advertisement
  • #271
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    mariaalice wrote: »
    it seems to descend in to an American shock jock type of vulgar ranting about welfare.
    Bingo, right there.
    Olishi4 wrote: »
    The study was done by the CSO and those are the definitions.
    And many of them are stupid definitions of poverty. Yes the heating, warm clothes, decent shoes. I see the psychological value in the present once per year too. I'm not suggesting sackcloth and ashes here. I'm not some daft puritan, nor am I some ivory tower libertarian or D4 righwinger. However, can't afford a meal out once a month? Can't afford a night out over the last two weeks? Roast once a week? This means I'm poverty stricken? GrightTFO pal.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



Advertisement