At what point does right wing just mean racist/d1ck/heartless baxtard?

steddyeddy

I currently live in the UK and the headline on every second paper seems to include the word immigrant. All ok in itself but some of the views expressed by people do border on racist.

The same with people who constantly blame tge poor for everything, have zero sympathy for addicts or homeless.

I'm wondering at what stage do we say that rather than being a political inclination some of these views are indicative of unpleasant people? Is it fair to suggest that right wing will always be more of a d1ck than those in the left? I don't get on with extreme left or right but would love opinions on the subject.

One eyed Jack

About the same point as the same could be said of elements on the left. There's that horseshoe diagram floating around there somewhere...

ToddyDoody

Usually at the point of acquiring / loosing money?

GLaDOS

Oh this will go well

riffmongous

I do find it interesting how the right like to proclaim themselves the bastion of free speech against left wing fascists at the moment, then of course the first thing right wing parties do once they get into power is start curtailing press freedom, e.g. Hungary, Poland

ScienceNerd

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Oh this will go well

no it won't

*your turn*

steddyeddy

One eyed Jack wrote: »

About the same point as the same could be said of elements on the left. There's that horseshoe diagram floating around there somewhere...

Yes I completely agree.

Crann na Beatha

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Sand

To be honest the left are more often violent and aggressive. All people on the right ask are for others to leave them alone, earn your own money and stop trying to tell them what they ought to think.

bear1

steddyeddy wrote: »

I currently live in the UK and the headline on every second paper seems to include the word immigrant. All ok in itself but some of the views expressed by people do border on racist.

The same with people who constantly blame tge poor for everything, have zero sympathy for addicts or homeless.

I'm wondering at what stage do we say that rather than being a political inclination some of these views are indicative of unpleasant people? Is it fair to suggest that right wing will always be more of a d1ck than those in the left? I don't get on with extreme left or right but would love opinions on the subject.

Considering the vote is coming up it shouldn't be at all surprising to see this level of scaremongering.
Ireland I imagine would be more centralist government?

http://idontgetpolitics.co.uk/right-left-wing

RayM

I've never encountered a right-wing person who I didn't find very unpleasant and completely incapable of empathy. Whatever the issue, it's like their first instinct is "Ok, what's the most obnoxious opinion I could possibly express right now?" Absolute dicks.

Saipanne

Left wingers can't be those things?

I've met some total cnuts who were left wing.

I don't think of racism as a left or right wing thing at all. You'll get hate in all quarters.

questionmark?

Far left and Far right are on the same level of the asshole scale as each other but don't realise they are.

El_Duderino 09

I think the research suggests that people who identify as conservative are less empathetic than hose who identify as liberal. I do think that factors onto why the right wing are so much more likely to take a punitive approach rather than try to assist or fix the problem.

The lower empathy me and they are less likely to think from the perspective of the other person/group in question. That means they don't think about how that person ended up in their situation and the factors that they could or couldn't influence. They assume that those other people are to blame for their situation. They are more likely to engage in victim blaming because they naturally minimise the likelihood of themselves suffering the same fate (Eg. That person who was raped must have been drunk. I don't get so drunk that I'm our of control. Ergo, I couldn't have been raped in that situation and it's her own silly fault for being so drunk).

Empathy is my answer, OP

Jayop

Sand wrote: »

To be honest the left are more often violent and aggressive. All people on the right ask are for others to leave them alone, earn your own money and stop trying to tell them what they ought to think.

They want to be left alone and have their own freedoms, providing they can still tell others what to do with their lives and bodies. (generally)

Wailin

RayM wrote: »

I've never encountered a right-wing person who I didn't find very unpleasant and completely incapable of empathy. Whatever the issue, it's like their first instinct is "Ok, what's the most obnoxious opinion I could possibly express right now?" Absolute dicks.

Says the left wing numpty.

The Backwards Man

All people that think in terms of left and right are a right pain in the balls for those us that just want to get on with living. They're all the same to me.

RayM

questionmark? wrote: »

Far left and Far right are on the same level of the asshole scale as each other but don't realise they are.

They really aren't. People who oppose racism are never going to be on the same side of the asshole scale as racists.

One eyed Jack

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think the research suggests that people who identify as conservative are less empathetic than hose who identify as liberal. I do think that factors onto why the right wing are so much more likely to take a punitive approach rather than try to assist or fix the problem.

The lower empathy me and they are less likely to think from the perspective of the other person/group in question. That means they don't think about how that person ended up in their situation and the factors that they could or couldn't influence. They assume that those other people are to blame for their situation. They are more likely to engage in victim blaming because they naturally minimise the likelihood of themselves suffering the same fate (Eg. That person who was raped must have been drunk. I don't get so drunk that I'm our of control. Ergo, I couldn't have been raped in that situation and it's her own silly fault for being so drunk).

Empathy is my answer, OP

Research carried out by liberal, left-wing think tanks of course, could be no bias there really... :pac:

The Backwards Man

RayM wrote: »

They really aren't. People who oppose racism are never going to be on the same side of the asshole scale as racists.

Not on the same side, but they make a quare job of balancing the scales.

Brian?

Sand wrote: »

To be honest the left are more often violent and aggressive. All people on the right ask are for others to leave them alone, earn your own money and stop trying to tell them what they ought to think.

Oh really. What about the anti abortion stance, which is quite popular among the right?

As for violence, there are mass murders on both extremes. But when it gets closer to moderate the Right wing loves a good invasion: Reagan, Thatcher, Bush.

I find moderate right wing people have blame others for their failures and don't credit society for their successes.

questionmark?

RayM wrote: »

They really aren't. People who oppose racism are never going to be on the same side of the asshole scale as racists.

I suggest you look up the history of left wing governments past or present and you will find a lot of racism. Start with the USSR and work your way through the list of countries that had far left governments at some stage or another.

Junkyard Tom

Before this gets locked. Peace, Brothers and Sisters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PivWY9wn5ps

Jayop

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Research carried out by liberal, left-wing think tanks of course, could be no bias there really... :pac:

I don't think it requires much research really. Look at any right wing political party in the western world. I'm not talking about extremists here, just parties that consider themselves right of center. The republicans in the US, the Tories in England, the DUP in NI. Their all for their freedoms, just screw anyone who gets in the way of their freedom or who has a different view point to them in religion, sexuality, opinions on things like abortion. Not all RW parties or people are like this, but most are.

FWIW, I don't really have any issue with people who on economic issues consider themselves right of center, I disagree, but that's OK. It's the social issues that the right espouse that I can't stand.

Peregrine

questionmark? wrote: »

Far left and Far right are on the same level of the asshole scale as each other but don't realise they are.

RayM wrote: »

They really aren't. People who oppose racism are never going to be on the same side of the asshole scale as racists.

This argument is fundamentally flawed without properly defining what the far left and far right are.

RayM

questionmark? wrote: »

I suggest you look up the history of left wing governments past or present and you will find a lot of racism. Start with the USSR and work your way through the list of countries that had far left governments at some stage or another.

If we're talking about despotic governments, then yes - a left-wing mass murderer is as bad as a right-wing mass murderer. The clue is in the term 'mass murderer'.

The thread's about right-wing people being heartless bastards though. I would argue that an extreme right-wing person (i.e. someone who supports UKIP/BNP/Pegida/Identity Ireland) is a worse human being than an extreme left-wing person (i.e. someone who supports AAA-PBP, SWP, etc). You might hate the left-wing person's views... you might think their ideology would be terrible for business... but it's possible to think that without pretending that their intentions are as bad as the extreme-right.

Jayop

Peregrine wrote: »

This argument is fundamentally flawed without properly defining what the far left and far right are.

I think we could clear this up by saying that in general the extremes of either ideology has historically proven to be dangerous and murderous.

I think however this thread would be better served talking about the more centrist parties/supporters who are either in power or main opposition in western countries today. Talking about the Nazis or the Communists isn't really going to be of any use.

Permabear

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El_Duderino 09

Sand wrote:

To be honest the left are more often violent and aggressive. All people on the right ask are for others to leave them alone, earn your own money and stop trying to tell them what they ought to think.

If that were true then the right would be in favour of gay marriage and abortion. Even if they don't agree with those things, they wouldn't want anyone telling anyone else what to do or think.

In reality they wanted to limit everyone's freedom to the things they want for themselves. Back to the drawing board on your hypothesis, I think.

One eyed Jack

Jayop wrote: »

I don't think it requires much research really.

Spoken like a true lefty liberal...

Look at any right wing political party in the western world. I'm not talking about extremists here, just parties that consider themselves right of center. The republicans in the US, the Tories in England, the DUP in NI. Their all for their freedoms, just screw anyone who gets in the way of their freedom or who has a different view point to them in religion, sexuality, opinions on things like abortion. Not all RW parties or people are like this, but most are.

No, no they really aren't. And if you were to actually do your research you would find that you really need to do more research. If I were to make claims the equivalent of yours about left-wing liberals I would be saying things like they want to have sex with dead people, like the party in Sweden, or they want to recognise pedophilia as a sexual orientation in the Netherlands, or they want incest to be recognised as a fundamental human right in Germany... Yet these are all the things they will condemn traditional right-wing elements for having done in the past! "Sexual liberation" they call it.


Not all lefty liberals though!!

FWIW, I don't really have any issue with people who on economic issues consider themselves right of center, I disagree, but that's OK. It's the social issues that the right espouse that I can't stand.

Even though I consider myself right-wing conservative then, we may have far more in common than you may initially have thought.

Permabear

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Jayop

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Spoken like a true lefty liberal...





No, no they really aren't. And if you were to actually do your research you would find that you really need to do more research. If I were to make claims the equivalent of yours about left-wing liberals I would be saying things like they want to have sex with dead people, like the party in Sweden, or they want to recognise pedophilia as a sexual orientation in the Netherlands, or they want incest to be recognised as a fundamental human right in Germany... Yet these are all the things they will condemn traditional right-wing elements for having done in the past! "Sexual liberation" they call it.


Not all lefty liberals though!!






Even though I consider myself right-wing conservative then, we may have far more in common than you may initially have thought.

Are those extreme parties or are they center left parties? I'd need to know more about them to make a judgement on what their doing and whether those policies are madness or have they a purpose. Pedophilia for example is by definition a sexual orientation, defining it legally as that doesn't make it any less awful so unless they're trying to pass laws to allow that to go on then it's irrelevant. As for the other two, incest and necrophilia, again I don't know the reasoning behind them doing it.

Galwayguy35

RayM wrote: »

I've never encountered a right-wing person who I didn't find very unpleasant and completely incapable of empathy. Whatever the issue, it's like their first instinct is "Ok, what's the most obnoxious opinion I could possibly express right now?" Absolute dicks.

Not much leftie empathy in that post Ray.

El_Duderino 09

One eyed Jack wrote:

Research carried out by liberal, left-wing think tanks of course, could be no bias there really...

I only read the research, you seem to be the expert on it so I'll take your word for it.

Jayop wrote:

I don't think it requires much research really. Look at any right wing political party in the western world. I'm not talking about extremists here, just parties that consider themselves right of center. The republicans in the US, the Tories in England, the DUP in NI. Their all for their freedoms, just screw anyone who gets in the way of their freedom or who has a different view point to them in religion, sexuality, opinions on things like abortion. Not all RW parties or people are like this, but most are.

Empathy is one of the easiest psychological factors to measure. You could send a bunch of undergrads to do research on empathy and political leaning. If you interviewed a sample of supporters at a Trump rally and found them to have average levels of empathy, you would have found an unexpected result.

With that said I'll be honest and say I can't remember the source of the research. You can continue to make pronouncements about the research without knowing anything about it, if that's what you're into.

Jayop

Permabear wrote: »

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Of course many on the right do. I know people on the left here in Ireland who are fundamentally opposed to abortion in any form. The fact remains though that a massive majority of republicans in the US oppose abortion.

Icemancometh

Brian? wrote: »

Oh really. What about the anti abortion stance, which is quite popular among the right?

As for violence, there are mass murders on both extremes. But when it gets closer to moderate the Right wing loves a good invasion: Reagan, Thatcher, Bush.

I find moderate right wing people have blame others for their failures and don't credit society for their successes.

It was Democrats who started the Korean and Vietnam Wars and Republicans who got them out.

Permabear

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RayM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Not much leftie empathy in that post Ray.

Classic. Only time you'll ever hear a right-winger talking about empathy is when they feel they aren't being empathised with.

El_Duderino 09

Permabear wrote:

This post had been deleted.

I'm not arguing with your figures because I don't know anything about them. The test would be to compare the figures to before the recent gay marriage rulings in the US. How many had changed their minds since the rulings. The second test would be to get figures for all republicans rather than young ones. Young political members don't necessarily match their party's opinions and often decide on things like party allegiance before they decide on what they think about the world.

One eyed Jack

Jayop wrote: »

Are those extreme parties or are they center left parties? I'd need to know more about them to make a judgement on what their doing and whether those policies are madness or have they a purpose.

They're pretty much the exact opposite end of the spectrum to what you were portraying as right-wing but totally not extremist but extremist... left-wing are no different.

Pedophilia for example is by definition a sexual orientation, defining it legally as that doesn't make it any less awful so unless they're trying to pass laws to allow that to go on then it's irrelevant. As for the other two, incest and necrophilia, again I don't know the reasoning behind them doing it.

It really isn't, unless you're using a different definition of sexual orientation to the rest of the Western world, which is again the extreme of liberal thinking.

Permabear

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K-9

Sand wrote: »

To be honest the left are more often violent and aggressive. All people on the right ask are for others to leave them alone, earn your own money and stop trying to tell them what they ought to think.

Not really though, take same sex marriage mostly opposed by right wingers and/or conservatives.

That was right wingers imposing their beliefs on others. Liberal people just wanted to give the choice to marry to same sex couples, whereas the other side wanted to deny others rights.

It isn't as if this is a current thing, various types of right wing conservatives have opposed abolishment of slavery, granting of civil rights, workers rights, women's rights, voting rights, you name it.

So the other side don't ask others to leave them alone, they basically tell others to fcuk off with wanting extra rights and a better life, and leave us alone with our extra rights that ye don't deserve.

As for the OP, probably telling people to go back to their own country, wanting no refugees at all or in tiny numbers, assuming doomsday is coming because Obama is in power etc etc.

And yes, there are left wing loonies, that doesn't make the extreme right wing retards okay!

Your Face

I experienced racist attitudes at work from immigrants.
Its OK though because I'm white and Irish.

RayM

Permabear wrote: »

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I've never really understood that kind of inconsistent mindset. They oppose abortion because they think it's wrong, but they're willing to make an exception in cases where the woman can't be 'blamed'. So their problem isn't really with abortion - it's with women.

Jayop

One eyed Jack wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

it really is. As abhorrent as it is, it's a sexual attraction/orientation towards prepubescent children. That's the literal meaning of the word Pedophilia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

paedophilia
ˌpiːdə(ʊ)ˈfɪlɪə/Submit
noun
noun: pedophilia
sexual feelings directed towards children.

Permabear wrote: »

But the majority of Republicans do not oppose abortion "in any form." In fact, the vast majority of Americans, including the majority of Republicans (Donald Trump included), would support exceptions for circumstances such as rape and incest. That makes the position of most Republicans significantly more liberal than that of the Irish state, which does not grant victims of rape or incest the right to an abortion.

And it's a right wing government that's ruled Ireland since the inception of the state that refuses to pass laws on abortion despite a vast majority of those in Ireland wanting it changed.

Permabear

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Jayop

Your Face wrote: »

I experienced racist attitudes at work from immigrants.
Its OK though because I'm white and Irish.

No it's not. Was the subject of the abuse because you were white or because you were Irish. If it was the latter then it's not racial abuse.

dd972

This point is usually a good guide!

http://media.ents24network.com/image/000/108/451/4ebb9a1a82e9ab7af0707c482492b0224a39bf69.jpg

Your Face

Jayop wrote: »

No it's not. Was the subject of the abuse because you were white or because you were Irish. If it was the latter then it's not racial abuse.

Both really.

SEPT 23 1989

People are being labelled as right wing because they don't agree with the demented actions and policies of the new left

You are now right wing

Really?

I thought I was somewhere in the centre