Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1

PTH2009 · 07-06-2016 11:27AM

Cork were just as bad vs Tipperary in the qf and people were saying Tipperary are the next best thing and when Waterford win it's not that we were great it was cause the other team had a bad day

Almost All the papers and pundits were taking about 'where did Clare go wrong, how will they improve next day, Davy quoting I'll be back etc.

If expect Tipperary bull dose past Limerick all the talk we will about how are Tipperary going to be stopped

JeffKenna · 07-06-2016 11:32AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

A lot of reason Waterford record v tipp in thurles is terrible is they weren't good enough to beat them there...wouldn't haven beat them if it was on the moon

Their good enough now to win no matter where it is on....if they've designs on winning an all Ireland which I think they do...they shouldn't be afraid of playing anyone anywhere

That's ridiculous. If we do have designs on winning an all Ireland then we need to be more ruthless. That does not amount to giving a team like tipp a 3/4 point advantage by conceding home advantage. They train most nights on that pitch, why should we give them that advantage! Suck it up and travel the extra hour.

Psychedelic · 07-06-2016 02:02PM

3/4 point advantage, seriously? I reckon it's worth none. We lost the Munster Final last year because Tipp were the better team on the day, nothing to do with home advantage.

cul beag · 07-06-2016 02:40PM

Great to see the players /management leaving their hair down yesterday and mingling with supporters in the local establishments. That's what separates our sport from all others,these guys never forget where they've come from. Close the gates to the city and county if we are successful in September!! These guys well deserve this break as the time and commitment they put in is professional without the paydays'.

PTH2009 · 07-06-2016 03:04PM

cul beag wrote: »

Great to see the players /management leaving their hair down yesterday and mingling with supporters in the local establishments. That's what separates our sport from all others,these guys never forget where they've come from. Close the gates to the city and county if we are successful in September!! These guys well deserve this break as the time and commitment they put in is professional without the paydays'.

They were all fairly jolly getting the bus in ballybricken yesterday lol. Would not surprise me if they were on the drink since Sunday night

Clare were prob back training yesterday lol.

The whole €10 rebate thing at the games is a joke. I work part time and even though I have a student card (Wit cards have no expiry date) I got humiliated by the steward in charge because they said there was no course in wit that is longer than 4 years (what if I happened to repeat my course, do it part time etc). Teachers who are on way more money than me can get the rebate and I can't joke. It's not the end of the world but I'm there to enjoy myself not get upset by some prick of a steward

Deise_2012 · 07-06-2016 03:47PM

Well they won on Sunday so that's not very surprising if they were on the drink the following day....you'd swear they're on the piss all week or something PTH.
And so what if Clare were back training yesterday? Why should we care about them, Tipp or Limerick are the only teams we need to watch out for at the moment

Whiplash85 · 07-06-2016 05:12PM

It will signal the death knell for hurling as we know it if Waterford win an all Ireland this year using those defensive tactics. It wont and cant happen. Sweepers have become a blight on the game and made it nigh on unwatchable. Playing with 1 or 2 forwards is Donegal mark 2. Flair players like Tony Kelly and Podge Collins and even your own Shane Bennett were suffocated on Sunday.
Sport should be a place to showcase immense talent and skill, not what we wintessed Sunday.

I think Clare will have a big say yet. It was noticeable how muted Davey was on the sideline. It was like it wasn't the worst thing in the world that could happen if they lost. Maybe a passage through the qualifiers will give some good experience to a few of the younger players. For Waterford it was all about revenge for the league final and trying to get a munster title under their belts.

Deise_2012 · 07-06-2016 05:21PM

How's scoring 1-21 defensive? How many wides did we have?

mickmackmcgoo · 07-06-2016 05:30PM

Whiplash85 wrote:

It will signal the death knell for hurling as we know it if Waterford win an all Ireland this year using those defensive tactics. It wont and cant happen. Sweepers have become a blight on the game and made it nigh on unwatchable. Playing with 1 or 2 forwards is Donegal mark 2. Flair players like Tony Kelly and Podge Collins and even your own Shane Bennett were suffocated on Sunday. Sport should be a place to showcase immense talent and skill, not what we wintessed Sunday.

All sport evolves , that's what makes it fascinating . Rugby, Soccer, Gaelic Football are all different from 10 or 15 years ago and Hurling is changing now, a lot of the change has to do with strength and fitness levels which leads to a different type of game. Most teams play this system now so I don't know why you are singling Waterford out

Whiplash85 · 07-06-2016 05:37PM

Deise_2012 wrote: »

How's scoring 1-21 defensive? How many wides did we have?

Stats can skew the full picture. Balls dribling out over the sideline from a hail mary into the oppositions half or a Darragh Fives/Austin Gleeson shot from their own 45 yard line hardly constitute a decent scoring chance.

Same with Down against Monaghan in the football on Sunday. Someone pointed out to me that Down should have been up at half time due to the amount of wides they kicked. The majority of those weren't decent scoring chances however. And Down played with no full forward line.

tomwaterford · 07-06-2016 06:52PM

JeffKenna wrote: »

That's ridiculous. If we do have designs on winning an all Ireland then we need to be more ruthless. That does not amount to giving a team like tipp a 3/4 point advantage by conceding home advantage. They train most nights on that pitch, why should we give them that advantage! Suck it up and travel the extra hour.

Waterford will beat tipp in thurles and imagine the sheer joy of it...to those lads in carrickbeg,rathgormack and clonea to Lord it over the arrogance of tipp

It's loser and backward thinking to think we're conceding advantage by going to a game in thurles

Tipp done their best to unnerve Waterford youngsters last year by coming out and forcing waterfords warm up in front of killian end...they shrugged it off as nothing

Tipp hold no psychological advantage over this Waterford team...to suggest otherwise is highly disrespectful to this group of players

Though as a by the by....I hope it's hyped as fcuk and people come out and support them as they deserve it...

seananigans · 07-06-2016 07:35PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

Waterford will beat tipp in thurles and imagine the sheer joy of it...to those lads in carrickbeg,rathgormack and clonea to Lord it over the arrogance of tipp

It's loser and backward thinking to think we're conceding advantage by going to a game in thurles

Tipp done their best to unnerve Waterford youngsters last year by coming out and forcing waterfords warm up in front of killian end...they shrugged it off as nothing

Tipp hold no psychological advantage over this Waterford team...to suggest otherwise is highly disrespectful to this group of players

Though as a by the by....I hope it's hyped as fcuk and people come out and support them as they deserve it...

Id be of the opinion that we should fear no one no where on their pitch in their back garden, in their kitchen , once we go hard this team can take anyone , and no more talk of these soft draws, to win you have to beat the big teams so look forward to it, no thrill from hitting westmeath and offaly in the qualifiers

cul beag · 07-06-2016 07:36PM

This might sound ridiculous but if I was to fear any of the teams left it would be Clare. I don't think they can be as bad again unless there's something wrong in their camp. I genuinely believe we have nothing to fear from any other team and that includes Kilkenny as even they will struggle with the setbacks they received this year. Our systems last Sunday confused Davy and our management have to be complimented for that and if used again in the Munster final I believe we will be successful. Our backs as a unit are as good as any in the country and given that Moran is showing form again alongside our most consistent player in Barron we are cruising nicely. We have options up front now aswell so barring injuries I think Mullane is right,this can be our year.

Mehapoy · 07-06-2016 08:21PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

JeffKenna wrote: »

That's ridiculous. If we do have designs on winning an all Ireland then we need to be more ruthless. That does not amount to giving a team like tipp a 3/4 point advantage by conceding home advantage. They train most nights on that pitch, why should we give them that advantage! Suck it up and travel the extra hour.

Waterford will beat tipp in thurles and imagine the sheer joy of it...to those lads in carrickbeg,rathgormack and clonea to Lord it over the arrogance of tipp

It's loser and backward thinking to think we're conceding advantage by going to a game in thurles

Tipp done their best to unnerve Waterford youngsters last year by coming out and forcing waterfords warm up in front of killian end...they shrugged it off as nothing

Tipp hold no psychological advantage over this Waterford team...to suggest otherwise is highly disrespectful to this group of players

Though as a by the by....I hope it's hyped as fcuk and people come out and support them as they deserve it...

Has the other semi been played already! As unthinkable as it is, would be strange if Limerick came through and ruined the party/coronation...has happened before!

HatchetMan7 · 07-06-2016 08:30PM

Whiplash85 wrote: »

It will signal the death knell for hurling as we know it if Waterford win an all Ireland this year using those defensive tactics. It wont and cant happen. Sweepers have become a blight on the game and made it nigh on unwatchable. Playing with 1 or 2 forwards is Donegal mark 2. Flair players like Tony Kelly and Podge Collins and even your own Shane Bennett were suffocated on Sunday.
Sport should be a place to showcase immense talent and skill, not what we wintessed Sunday.

I think Clare will have a big say yet. It was noticeable how muted Davey was on the sideline. It was like it wasn't the worst thing in the world that could happen if they lost. Maybe a passage through the qualifiers will give some good experience to a few of the younger players. For Waterford it was all about revenge for the league final and trying to get a munster title under their belts.

So basically what your saying is that the Waterford players should really be training like dogs since last October to entertain you as their main priority and to win an all Ireland is secondary to this. Now i know what people are going to say why can't we do both. I would imagine that's the goal but the priority for a team in a barren spell of 57 years would be to win first entertain is secondary surely that's not hard to understand?
The funny thing is, is that all the posters that are particularly vocal saying that Waterford will never win an all Ireland playing this system (and some are doing their best to convince themselves it can't happen) are wrong because of coarse its possible if we tweak it and perfect it, whether that will happen remains to be seen.

mountgomery burns · 07-06-2016 08:40PM

Whiplash85 wrote: »

It will signal the death knell for hurling as we know it if Waterford win an all Ireland this year using those defensive tactics. It wont and cant happen. Sweepers have become a blight on the game and made it nigh on unwatchable. Playing with 1 or 2 forwards is Donegal mark 2. Flair players like Tony Kelly and Podge Collins and even your own Shane Bennett were suffocated on Sunday.
Sport should be a place to showcase immense talent and skill, not what we wintessed Sunday.

I think Clare will have a big say yet. It was noticeable how muted Davey was on the sideline. It was like it wasn't the worst thing in the world that could happen if they lost. Maybe a passage through the qualifiers will give some good experience to a few of the younger players. For Waterford it was all about revenge for the league final and trying to get a munster title under their belts.

Flair players were stifled eh? And yet Maurice Shanahan got 1-2 and Austin Gleeson got 5 points.

A sweeper did not hit wides from frees, or miss guilt edge chances such as Conor McGraths from the 21. It's bizarre how Waterford regularly get blamed for the deficiencies of their opponents.

And what's even more interesting to me would be the perspective that waterford's forwards are actually getting more goals in big games than Clare. Exclude the Offaly game last year, and this is the 3rd consecutive championship game that the starting forwards for Clare have failed to goal. With names like McGrath, Kelly, Collins, O'Donnell, Conlon and Honan and the ability they possess that is some failure. David Reidy got through on goal for Clare early on, and is very hard to mark, and yet he seemed to play most of the rest of the game man marking Waterford forwards??

But I have yet to see a even moderately popular view that it would be bad for hurling if Clare won the all ireland despite them seeming to be even less potent in front of goal than Waterford.

Also I'd like to know who the younger players on the Clare team are that need more experience?

tomwaterford · 07-06-2016 09:09PM

Mehapoy wrote: »

Has the other semi been played already! As unthinkable as it is, would be strange if Limerick came through and ruined the party/coronation...has happened before!

Tipp could win that by anything up to ten points in a canter if they don't let themselves get drawn into a dogfight with Limerick

Though I would be shouting for Limerick and a Deffo Minster final in thurles

PTH2009 · 07-06-2016 10:11PM

We meet our friends in yellow and blue again in the under 21 championship in Walsh Park on Wed 13th July (date could be changed if we win/draw the munster senior final)

On paper and with a slightly better management team dis year we could go far but if we were to lose the senior match some of the players heads could be elsewhere

Clare not expected to be as good as previous years but there intermediates played pretty well last sunday

Fred C Dobbs · 07-06-2016 10:26PM

cul beag wrote: »

This might sound ridiculous but if I was to fear any of the teams left it would be Clare. I don't think they can be as bad again unless there's something wrong in their camp. I genuinely believe we have nothing to fear from any other team and that includes Kilkenny as even they will struggle with the setbacks they received this year. Our systems last Sunday confused Davy and our management have to be complimented for that and if used again in the Munster final I believe we will be successful. Our backs as a unit are as good as any in the country and given that Moran is showing form again alongside our most consistent player in Barron we are cruising nicely. We have options up front now aswell so barring injuries I think Mullane is right,this can be our year.

You're absolutely right ... this is one of the most ridiculous posts in a long time.

If and when we meet Kilkenny, that will be the acid test, despite their 'setbacks'.

cul beag · 07-06-2016 10:37PM

Fred C Dobbs wrote: »

You're absolutely right ... this is one of the most ridiculous posts in a long time.

If and when we meet Kilkenny, that will be the acid test, despite their 'setbacks'.

Was wondering when you would have an input! I suppose it's probably as ridiculous as your medical expenses question haha

tomwaterford · 07-06-2016 10:44PM

Fred C Dobbs wrote: »

You're absolutely right ... this is one of the most ridiculous posts in a long time.

If and when we meet Kilkenny, that will be the acid test, despite their 'setbacks'.

I'd be confident enough we'd turn over kk tbh

They were saying it was lack of training etc cost kk the league match v Waterford

But Clare somewhat exposed them cruelly in league semi final with same tactic:...quick ball on top of a very suspect full back line

Remember sganahan and Bennett reaping great rewards in opening round of the league at it

Whiplash85 · 07-06-2016 11:04PM

I'm only a neutral observer who likes to see the fine arts of the game. The old adage that a bad game of hurling is better than a good game of football is sadly no longer true. The Irish open golf was more entertaining than the Tipp Cork game owing to Corks Naivete to play a sweeper system after deploying it in training for no more than 6 weeks. A county with 30 All Irelands feeling the need to adopt the strategy of Clare who lets face it pioneered this system and Waterford who have taken it on and run a mile with it.

Someone said here that the game has evolved. I challenge that theory and say it has devolved. It is irrefutable. The apex for hurling was in 09 & 10 with those Tipp Kilkenny All Ireland finals. There was nothing that has eclipsed them finals before and since with 09 probably the standout.

Now what we have are rucks (to borrow rugby parlance), aerial tennis, creativity stifled, and basically whichever team makes the fewest mistakes will win. David Fitzgerald made a blunder in the opening stages on Sunday and Clare never recovered.

BTW someone else asked who the Clare youngsters are who will garner more experience for their run in the qualifiers. half their back line is the answer. Oisin O Brien, Conor Cleary and David Fitzgerald. Conor Cleary will become a real star. Clare are hamstrung by their sideline and Davy doesn't have the tactical nous to break down the system, They got lucky in the league final. I dont think he will be too perturbed by last Sundays result however. He will be looking at the long game and Croke park in August. Thats when the real All Ireland race is run and anything up to then is just confetti.

mountgomery burns · 07-06-2016 11:42PM

Whiplash85 wrote: »

I'm only a neutral observer who likes to see the fine arts of the game. The old adage that a bad game of hurling is better than a good game of football is sadly no longer true. The Irish open golf was more entertaining than the Tipp Cork game owing to Corks Naivete to play a sweeper system after deploying it in training for no more than 6 weeks. A county with 30 All Irelands feeling the need to adopt the strategy of Clare who lets face it pioneered this system and Waterford who have taken it on and run a mile with it.

Someone said here that the game has evolved. I challenge that theory and say it has devolved. It is irrefutable. The apex for hurling was in 09 & 10 with those Tipp Kilkenny All Ireland finals. There was nothing that has eclipsed them finals before and since with 09 probably the standout.

Now what we have are rucks (to borrow rugby parlance), aerial tennis, creativity stifled, and basically whichever team makes the fewest mistakes will win. David Fitzgerald made a blunder in the opening stages on Sunday and Clare never recovered.

BTW someone else asked who the Clare youngsters are who will garner more experience for their run in the qualifiers. half their back line is the answer. Oisin O Brien, Conor Cleary and David Fitzgerald. Conor Cleary will become a real star. Clare are hamstrung by their sideline and Davy doesn't have the tactical nous to break down the system, They got lucky in the league final. I dont think he will be too perturbed by last Sundays result however. He will be looking at the long game and Croke park in August. Thats when the real All Ireland race is run and anything up to then is just confetti.

Not to say that you're not young if you're not U21, but they are not U21s. The tram in general is at a prime age, sure the youth rationale and the qualifiers have been there for them the last two years as well which has gotten them absolutely nowhere.

So Clare pioneered the system, don't have the tactical nous to break it down, and at the same time Davy is playing the long game. I don't see a consistent logic in those points.

The bottom line is the fastest way to September is through winning a provincial and while the superstitious bogeys may think Munster is a curse, it's not.

If Davy isn't bothered about Sunday, Clare need a new manager fast.

Whiplash85 · 08-06-2016 12:09AM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Not to say that you're not young if you're not U21, but they are not U21s. The tram in general is at a prime age, sure the youth rationale and the qualifiers have been there for them the last two years as well which has gotten them absolutely nowhere.

So Clare pioneered the system, don't have the tactical nous to break it down, and at the same time Davy is playing the long game. I don't see a consistent logic in those points.

The bottom line is the fastest way to September is through winning a provincial and while the superstitious bogeys may think Munster is a curse, it's not.

If Davy isn't bothered about Sunday, Clare need a new manager fast.

I never said Davy Fitz pioneered the system. I said Clare. I think I first witnessed it in 2004 - the infamous kilkenny Clare game and the Gerry Quinn/Henry Shefflin incident. Clare also had Alan Markham playing a similar role before. I think Anthony Daly used it with Dublin with varying degrees of success as well. What Derek McGrath has done though is radicalised it completely. The game is in a straitjacket at the moment and it is really frustrating to watch.

Also Davy Fitz using the system and not being able to break it down when faced with it is not mutually exclusive. Munster championship games have lost a bit of their lustre. All Ireland semi finalists borne out of munster championship glory have a poor track record. The game is all about momentum. I expect Tipp, Kilkenny, Clare and Galway to make up the final 4 this year with Tipp finally getting the monkey off the back, that is Kilkenny, in the final.

robopaddy2 · 08-06-2016 01:39AM

Whiplash85 wrote: »

I'm only a neutral observer

Of course you are... who just happens to have a bit of a gra for the old banner

robopaddy2 · 08-06-2016 04:52AM

DiscoStew wrote: »

Waternut wrote: »

Lads, fantastic win but lets not get ahead of ourselves. Clare were poor. In fact Waterford was poor in the first half but Clare were atrocious. We will need a better first half to win a Munster final cos that last Sunday will not do.

This!! While it was an incredibly satisfying victory Clare were very poor. And not in a way that we could claim we caused them to be poor, they missed some really simple chances.
I think we could do without the likes of Mullane tipping us for All Ireland already. Tipp, KK, Galway all loving the attention that we're bringing on ourselves. I think if we are to get to September we need to manage that side of it carefully to keep a lid on things. Don't want to be getting carried away at this stage of the year.
Huge positive was the performance of Moran who had struggled a little for form before this game. Similar with Maurice and Pauric Mahony, they delivered when we really needed it and Bennett and Curran were struggling. Those lads will bounce back from that disappointment I have no doubt.
Hopefully the attention quickly switches to another team now, Limerick, Tipp, Dublin, KK. Don't particular care who but would much rather avoid the hype and focus.

Mullanes job is to say it as he sees it, he was asked if we can win the All Ireland his response was that we can. He demanded the best from his fellow county men as a player and is doing the same as a pundit. Ive no doubt if he felt we weren't good enough he'd say likewise. His brother in law being manager the easy thing to do would be take the heat off him and play his chances down. This business of tip-toeing around the subject for fear of jinxing it is fooling no one. Let the management play the mind games but the pundits and public will judge it for what it is. KK and Tipp I imagine are too busy trying to deal with the pressure they face from their own fans to succeed year in year out to be too bothered about us being bigged up. That's sport, you just deal with it.

decies · 08-06-2016 11:48AM

Must say I really enjoyed being in semple stadium last Sunday , I thought it was a bad omen before the match that I nearly got hit by a Waterford Sliotar while in the jax lol‚. Anyway I thought the lads really grew up and the self belief is evident , make no mistake this is a tough , skilful Waterford side that has much promise that I really believe it can deliver the ultimate goal whether it's this year or the following years . Whatever happens in July or Aug/Sept we should be really proud of this team . I happened to have a fowl mouthed Clare supporter right behind me in the stands , he never shut up effin and blinding even about the direction of Dan Shanahans cap !! But his real gem was just before half time " come on Clare we have the measure of these cu%#}" He left the game with 6 mins to go . I picked up a viral infection hours after the game and have been layed up since ,but by christ it was worth it just being there on. Sunday!!!

shamco · 08-06-2016 11:54AM

DiscoStew wrote: »

Waternut wrote: »

Lads, fantastic win but lets not get ahead of ourselves. Clare were poor. In fact Waterford was poor in the first half but Clare were atrocious. We will need a better first half to win a Munster final cos that last Sunday will not do.

This!! While it was an incredibly satisfying victory Clare were very poor. And not in a way that we could claim we caused them to be poor, they missed some really simple chances.
I think we could do without the likes of Mullane tipping us for All Ireland already. Tipp, KK, Galway all loving the attention that we're bringing on ourselves. I think if we are to get to September we need to manage that side of it carefully to keep a lid on things. Don't want to be getting carried away at this stage of the year.
Huge positive was the performance of Moran who had struggled a little for form before this game. Similar with Maurice and Pauric Mahony, they delivered when we really needed it and Bennett and Curran were struggling. Those lads will bounce back from that disappointment I have no doubt.
Hopefully the attention quickly switches to another team now, Limerick, Tipp, Dublin, KK. Don't particular care who but would much rather avoid the hype and focus.

Well said as a Clareman ye were good value for your win and good luck in the final but I don't think Waterford played that well and will need a significant improvement to beat Tipp who I expect to beat Limerick.

galwaylad14 · 08-06-2016 12:04PM

Waterford have been very decent over the last year and a half, especially in the league. However I genuinely think talk of an All Ireland is premature. Ye played the two "big" teams last year and were beaten comfortably on both occasions, a result I expect to see repeated in the Munster final. Tipp will have too much firepower.

Whiplash85 · 08-06-2016 12:34PM

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Waterford have been very decent over the last year and a half, especially in the league. However I genuinely think talk of an All Ireland is premature. Ye played the two "big" teams last year and were beaten comfortably on both occasions, a result I expect to see repeated in the Munster final. Tipp will have too much firepower.

I expect Waterford to improve on last year. I definitely think getting to a Munster final, league final replay and All Ireland semi final would represent a successful year for Waterford. They have definitely improved on the sweeper system but I also expect other teams will have improved in their ability to mitigate it.

You wouldn't know what to expect from Kilkenny. They had a very up and down league, a few injuries since. They have been knocked out of minor and U21 leinster championships. Are they currently running on fumes and is Winter finally coming. God I hope so but with Cody you never know. If he wins it this year with Kilkenny it will be his best win yet.

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1