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Leinster V Rugby's Biggest Bandwagon; 28/5/2016 17:30 Murrayfield: SS3 & TG4

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Comments

  • #802
    Shelflife
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Shelflife


    I was chatting to one of the branch on Sunday at the homecoming, we briefly broached a few topics as we took in the crowds in the sportgrounds.

    He said they dont care what the other provinces get or have gotten in the past or are getting now, We have shown that we can win trophies and what other provinces situations are has nothing to do with where Connacht are going.

    We can worry that Leinster have 2 chops on their plate or that Munster got more gravy or we can simply eat what we get and make do with that. By all means dont sell yourself short when looking to fill your plate but dont upset yourself by giving off about it.

    Basically the whinging is done and hard work to help ourselves is the order of the day. If we want an extra chop and some more gravy, we will just have to go out and source it ourselves.

    Different mindset in Connacht now.


  • #803
    Neil3030
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Shelflife wrote: »
    I was chatting to one of the branch on Sunday at the homecoming, we briefly broached a few topics as we took in the crowds in the sportgrounds.

    He said they dont care what the other provinces get or have gotten in the past or are getting now, We have shown that we can win trophies and what other provinces situations are has nothing to do with where Connacht are going.

    We can worry that Leinster have 2 chops on their plate or that Munster got more gravy or we can simply eat what we get and make do with that. By all means dont sell yourself short when looking to fill your plate but dont upset yourself by giving off about it.

    Basically the whinging is done and hard work to help ourselves is the order of the day. If we want an extra chop and some more gravy, we will just have to go out and source it ourselves.

    Different mindset in Connacht now.

    This post has left me more confused about whether Connacht will get help to build a stadium, but more sure that I want chops and gravy right now...


  • #804
    WarZ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 972 ✭✭✭WarZ


    Unfortunately the IRFU are going to be very cautious about loaning money to the provinces to upgrade their stadiums. Munster's Thomond disaster bled their goodwill dry. I personally think Connacht could fill 10k with the current surge in support and I think they would bring in enough new fans that would stay even after success goes to sustain it


  • #805
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,071 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    Neil3030 wrote: »
    This post has left me more confused about whether Connacht will get help to build a stadium, but more sure that I want chops and gravy right now...

    Pork Chop Stadium Confirmed!!


  • #806
    MarinersBlues
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭MarinersBlues


    Shelflife wrote: »
    I was chatting to one of the branch on Sunday at the homecoming, we briefly broached a few topics as we took in the crowds in the sportgrounds.

    He said they dont care what the other provinces get or have gotten in the past or are getting now, We have shown that we can win trophies and what other provinces situations are has nothing to do with where Connacht are going.

    Love this and hope it's true.
    This is exactly what I want to hear.
    If we want to be taken seriously we have to stop the poor-mouth and playing the victim.

    Everything is in Connacht's control now. They have the infrastructure, players and the supporters time to take things into their own hands.
    A stadium for Connacht is not a responsibility for the IRFU, GAA, IGB, County Council or even Galway Utd. It is only Connacht's and Connacht alone.
    If they can get other people on board well and good but they shouldn't have to rely on it

    They have loads of prime space in the Sportsground that they use as a training pitch. Transforming that into something more valuable would be a good start.


  • #807
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,071 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    MarinersBlues wrote: »
    Love this and hope it's true.
    This is exactly what I want to hear.
    If we want to be taken seriously we have to stop the poor-mouth and playing the victim.

    Everything is in Connacht's control now. They have the infrastructure, players and the supporters time to take things into their own hands.
    A stadium for Connacht is not a responsibility for the IRFU, GAA, IGB, County Council or even Galway Utd. It is only Connacht's and Connacht alone.
    If they can get other people on board well and good but they shouldn't have to rely on it
    Agree 100%
    MarinersBlues wrote: »
    They have loads of prime space in the Sportsground that they use as a training pitch. Transforming that into something more valuable would be a good start.


    This is map of the ground, dunno how much they have to work with tbh unless they demolish the car park


  • #808
    MarinersBlues
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭MarinersBlues


    Plenty of room for a decent sized stand where the Clan is.
    They just need to clear some space behind it.

    I did note that the stands are farther away from the sideline in Murrayfield than in the SG.
    The greyhound track is no impediment to stands along the sideline.


  • #809
    Billysays no
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭Billysays no


    i do love to be right marinersblues but was i right about last weekend. i always believed. over the years i cribbed about henshaw and marmion. i said marmion needed to play faster. and now he does. i said henshaw would be a crap fullback because he lives within the RK mold. No longer. Henshaw was running around players for fun this weekend but it took time. Pat Lam has taught him well.

    I am so thrilled for these players. they have developed to be the players i wanted them to be. My bitching is concluded. I saw the potential but finally it was delivered. Robbie Henshaw will be a great player because Pat Lam has taught him to play something other than crash bang rugby, kieran will be a great player because pat lam has shown him how to play quick rugby.

    It is simply lovely to see


  • #810
    former total
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭former total


    Billysays no wrote: »
    i do love to be right marinersblues but was i right about last weekend. i always believed. over the years i cribbed about henshaw and marmion. i said marmion needed to play faster. and now he does. i said henshaw would be a crap fullback because he lives within the RK mold. No longer. Henshaw was running around players for fun this weekend but it took time. Pat Lam has taught him well.

    I am so thrilled for these players. they have developed to be the players i wanted them to be. My bitching is concluded. I saw the potential but finally it was delivered. Robbie Henshaw will be a great player because Pat Lam has taught him to play something other than crash bang rugby, kieran will be a great player because pat lam has shown him how to play quick rugby.

    It is simply lovely to see

    I'm sorry but weren't you viciously critical of Lam and the majority of the players for long periods prior to this season?


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  • #811
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    former total wrote: »
    I'm sorry but weren't you viciously critical of Lam and the majority of the players for long periods prior to this season?

    Oh no, that was ouncer! :D
    ouncer wrote: »
    Most important thing in Connacht rugby is to get rid of pat lam asap


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88488886&postcount=8933


  • #812
    Billysays no
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭Billysays no


    former total wrote: »
    I'm sorry but weren't you viciously critical of Lam and the majority of the players for long periods prior to this season?
    very true. i said what i felt. marmion broke my heart with slow rubbish. robbie henshaw was an RK lookalike. i dont think i was wrong. marmion whips stuff out these days, robbie is not a good fullback but is an incredible inside centre.


  • #813
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    typhoony wrote: »
    so the fanbase hasnt grown or did you just pick low attendances for your examples, i wonder what the yearly average home match attendances was for the period 2005 to 2009?

    I'd say that Munster only had the big crowds at Heineken Cup games. The fanbase has grown for the league.

    05/06 Home Games
    14/15 Home Games

    3500 (TP)

    13,428 Edinburgh
    6700

    12,488 Zebre
    5000
    13,547 Ospreys
    7500 (Leinster)
    13,851
    13,500 (Castres HC)
    26,000 (Saracens)
    6,000 (Ulster)
    17,101 (Ulster)
    13,200 (Dragons HC)
    25,600 (Clermont)
    8,000 (Connacht 27 Dec TP)
    25,600 Leinster
    5000
    17,685 (Sale Sharks)
    48,500 (Perp QF – Lansdowne)
    7,361*
    9,000
    18,762 (Connacht)
    13,200 (TP – week after winning HC).
    7,644*

    I picked those two years 05/06 because this is when Munster won their first Heineken Cup and it was prior to the redevelopment of Thomond Park and it wasn't a World Cup Year which messed up some games.

    14/15 is the other year I chose as the most recent which would not have been affected by world cup.

    *Games in Musgrave Park with lower capacity.

    Sorry, that didn't work out right. Dark shade is 05/06.


  • #814
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,937 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Billysays no wrote: »
    very true. i said what i felt. marmion broke my heart with slow rubbish. robbie henshaw was an RK lookalike. i dont think i was wrong. marmion whips stuff out these days, robbie is not a good fullback but is an incredible inside centre.

    Does he not play outside centre for Connacht?


  • #815
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    MarinersBlues wrote: »
    Plenty of room for a decent sized stand where the Clan is.
    They just need to clear some space behind it.

    I did note that the stands are farther away from the sideline in Murrayfield than in the SG.
    The greyhound track is no impediment to stands along the sideline.
    What IYO would be a decent sized stand? How would you clear space behind the clan?
    wp_rathead wrote: »
    This is map of the ground, dunno how much they have to work with tbh unless they demolish the car park
    You cant really remove the car park though...
    MarinersBlues wrote: »
    Love this and hope it's true.
    This is exactly what I want to hear.
    If we want to be taken seriously we have to stop the poor-mouth and playing the victim.

    Everything is in Connacht's control now. They have the infrastructure, players and the supporters time to take things into their own hands.
    A stadium for Connacht is not a responsibility for the IRFU, GAA, IGB, County Council or even Galway Utd. It is only Connacht's and Connacht alone.
    If they can get other people on board well and good but they shouldn't have to rely on it

    They have loads of prime space in the Sportsground that they use as a training pitch. Transforming that into something more valuable would be a good start.
    Stadium for Connacht is partly responsibility of IRFU. You need the back pitch as there is Boys Club, training pitch for all teams etc etc. Everything is not at all in Connachts control


  • #816
    Billysays no
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭Billysays no


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Does he not play outside centre for Connacht?
    No


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  • #817
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Does he not play outside centre for Connacht?

    Yes, he does


  • #818
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    None of that goes against the point I was making. If the IRFU don't give Connacht the exact same money they Munster it shouldn't be seen as another slight at Connacht. Munster had a swell of support much like Connacht are having now but they struggle to fill their stadium. Not everyone who got on the Munster bandwagon stayed on it. The same thing will happen with Connacht. I know they will have to get into some debt to build or redevelop, my point is simply that if the IRFU don't help them build something the size of Thomand it shouldn't be used as another sick to beat them with.

    I'll just make the point that the IRFU will not invest any money in any project even if they did own the ground. They only loaned Munster 15m and Munster had to raise the rest themselves (approx. €35m).

    Munster never had a huge attendances at PRO12 games. That maybe because there are probably more Munster fans living in the Dublin area than there are in Munster itself and only travel back occasionally.


  • #819
    Bazzo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    Billysays no wrote: »
    No

    Yes he does Billy. Aki plays 12 and Henshaw 13 for Connacht, it's been that way for 2 years now. In fact, I think Henshaw wore the 12 jersey for Ireland before Connacht, and over all his senior caps he's only started at inside centre a couple of times.


  • #820
    Teferi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,320 ✭✭✭Teferi


    What have Munster got to do with a final between Leinster V Connacht?

    Answer: Nothing.


  • #821
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,937 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    jm08 wrote: »
    I'll just make the point that the IRFU will not invest any money in any project even if they did own the ground. They only loaned Munster 15K and Munster had to raise the rest themselves (approx. €35m).

    Munster never had a huge attendances at PRO12 games. That maybe because there are probably more Munster fans living in the Dublin area than there are in Munster itself and only travel back occasionally.

    Is that a typo or are you saying thr IRFU only contributed 15,000 to Thomand Park?


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  • #822
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Is that a typo or are you saying thr IRFU only contributed 15,000 to Thomand Park?

    Oops. It should be €15m (and they have paid back about 5.5m).


  • #823
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Teferi wrote: »
    What have Munster got to do with a final between Leinster V Connacht?

    Answer: Nothing.

    What has building a new stadium in Connacht got to do with a final between Leinster v Connacht?


  • #824
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Is that a typo or are you saying thr IRFU only contributed 15,000 to Thomand Park?
    He's wrong they gave much more for thomond....


  • #825
    Billysays no
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭Billysays no


    Bazzo wrote: »
    Yes he does Billy. Aki plays 12 and Henshaw 13 for Connacht, it's been that way for 2 years now. In fact, I think Henshaw wore the 12 jersey for Ireland before Connacht, and over all his senior caps he's only started at inside centre a couple of times.
    I'm wrong.


  • #826
    WarZ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 972 ✭✭✭WarZ


    Jaysus Billy dont know how a fanatic Connacht supporter such as yourself made that mistake :)


  • #827
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,045 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Billysays no wrote: »
    i do love to be right marinersblues but was i right about last weekend. i always believed. over the years i cribbed about henshaw and marmion. i said marmion needed to play faster. and now he does. i said henshaw would be a crap fullback because he lives within the RK mold. No longer. Henshaw was running around players for fun this weekend but it took time. Pat Lam has taught him well.

    I am so thrilled for these players. they have developed to be the players i wanted them to be. My bitching is concluded. I saw the potential but finally it was delivered. Robbie Henshaw will be a great player because Pat Lam has taught him to play something other than crash bang rugby, kieran will be a great player because pat lam has shown him how to play quick rugby.

    It is simply lovely to see

    Didn't you recently say that Connacht would always stick to their game plan and run the ball, never kick for goal and always go for the try? How did they win their semi-final? Can you break down the scoring?


  • #828
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Kingspan wasn't the IRFU, nor is the RDS redevelopment.

    Aviva is the national stadium, a bit different to any of the others. Thomond has turned out to be much harder to fund than anticipated.

    I'm completely in favour of Connacht getting assistance by the way, but it's not like everyone has been getting handouts left, right and center as you seem to suggest.

    Ok fair enough. However, they did receive huge funding from the Northern Executive.

    http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/31967.php#.V04NH032brc
    In 2012, Ulster Rugby secured £16.5 million of funding from the Northern Ireland Executive for the redevelopment of the ground. Three new stands were built raising capacity from 11,400 to 18,000.

    The stadium hosts the Ulster Rugby squad's professional training base, consisting of a 7,000 square foot gym, meeting rooms and medical facilities.

    Regards the Aviva, Leinster have use of it for big Champions Cup games. They mightn't make any money from the games but at least it allows more fans attend the games.

    Its not really a level playing field across the board.


  • #829
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Ok fair enough. However, they did receive huge funding from the Northern Executive.

    http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/31967.php#.V04NH032brc



    Regards the Aviva, Leinster have use of it for big Champions Cup games. They mightn't make any money from the games but at least it allows more fans attend the games.

    Its not really a level playing field across the board.

    And Connacht can request a government grant for development of a new ground in Galway. The RDS got the same for redevelopment of their stadium. That has nothing to do with your claims that Connacht are under-supported by the IRFU.

    Leinster use the Aviva because it's profitable for the IRFU. If it wasn't they wouldn't be playing there. That benefits everyone in Irish rugby, so I really don't see why you're complaining about that. Connacht would be unlikely to break even in there but it would be great if they could find a temporary larger ground for European games closer to home in conjuction with their own 10k seater stadium.


  • #830
    MarinersBlues
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭MarinersBlues


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    What IYO would be a decent sized stand? How would you clear space behind the clan?

    You cant really remove the car park though...

    Stadium for Connacht is partly responsibility of IRFU. You need the back pitch as there is Boys Club, training pitch for all teams etc etc. Everything is not at all in Connachts control

    4500 seater west stand in Sale is a decent template.
    That would bring capacity up to 10,000 and sort out the seating issue.
    http://www.rugbygroundguide.com/sale.html

    If they can't find an alternative location for a training pitch and a junior team to free up a prime location, then why would you expect any other body to put themselves out to satisfy Connacht?


  • #831
    Billysays no
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭Billysays no


    WarZ wrote: »
    Jaysus Billy dont know how a fanatic Connacht supporter such as yourself made that mistake :)
    what it says to me is I know bollix. how about u warz? i try to think I know things but I get it wrong consistently. what I did say is Connacht would win this weekend. I have supported them year in and year out (negative comments included). I have always believed in them. Always.


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  • #832
    its_phil
    Registered Users Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭its_phil


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Kingspan wasn't the IRFU, nor is the RDS redevelopment.

    Aviva is the national stadium, a bit different to any of the others. Thomond has turned out to be much harder to fund than anticipated.

    I'm completely in favour of Connacht getting assistance by the way, but it's not like everyone has been getting handouts left, right and center as you seem to suggest.

    Ok fair enough. However, they did receive huge funding from the Northern Executive.

    http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/31967.php#.V04NH032brc
    In 2012, Ulster Rugby secured 16.5 million of funding from the Northern Ireland Executive for the redevelopment of the ground. Three new stands were built raising capacity from 11,400 to 18,000.

    The stadium hosts the Ulster Rugby squad's professional training base, consisting of a 7,000 square foot gym, meeting rooms and medical facilities.

    Regards the Aviva, Leinster have use of it for big Champions Cup games. They mightn't make any money from the games but at least it allows more fans attend the games.

    Its not really a level playing field across the board.

    Both arguments against Leinster and Ulster have nothing to do with the IRFU.

    Leinster can sell out the Aviva, no other province can do that maybe Munster aside. I'm sure the option is there for Connacht but are they seriously going to ask?

    What the Northern Irish government does with their money is not at all relevant? If it's not a fair playing field then all those French teams better cough up the cash to even Northern Hemisphere rugby.

    Also a grant was given by government to build Clan stand IIRC.


  • #833
    Billysays no
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭Billysays no


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Didn't you recently say that Connacht would always stick to their game plan and run the ball, never kick for goal and always go for the try? How did they win their semi-final? Can you break down the scoring?

    at some point in life, and I was a critic beyond critics, you have to kinda admit what was put in front of you is the feckin bees knees. no criticism just quality. accept it. what we saw this weekend was simply stunning.


  • #834
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    thing about the dog track is that it is so close to the town centre
    people can just walk down

    any other location would suffer from less atmosphere and less of a walk up crowd


  • #835
    Shelflife
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Shelflife


    Lads and Lassies it doesnt matter what the others got or didnt get.

    The fact remains that the IRFU have increased the funding to Connacht over the years and both sides are happy with the returns.

    As regards a stadium, well thats up to Connacht to sort out and get up and running and thats what they are in the middle of doing, its going to be a slow process but at least a start has been made and the win at the weekend will be a great boost.

    Will the IRFU help out with the stadium ? I cant see any reason why they wouldnt but they will be sensible about it and will expect the Connacht branch to do most of the heavy lifting,which Connacht are happy to do.


  • #836
    dtpc191991
    Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭dtpc191991


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    So then you see that Connacht fans aren't asking for the exact same money as Munster?

    I think it would be terrific for Irish rugby if Connacht were to own their own stadium. Make hay while the sun is shining etc

    The post I originally replied to was one suggesting Connacht would be fobbed off and fans told to be happy with what they have. It also mentioned Munster getting money to build Thomand.

    All I said was that Munster have a giant stadium they can't currently fill and that if the IRFU decide to take a more cautious/realistic approach with helping Connacht build or redevelop it doesn't mean Connacht are being fobbed off and treated as the lesser province.

    I know Connacht fans and the powers that be in Connacht aren't looking to build Thomand II. I know that the plans laid out by Connacht the other week are reasonable and realistic.

    Part of me has always believed that the IRFU only fronted the cash to build Thomand that big to assist with the various Rugby World Cup bids in discussion at the time. Of course this is conjecture, there is no actual evidence to suggest it but it may explain why the IRFU took a risk on Munster maintaining such a huge fan base.


  • #837
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,937 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Listening to Shane Horgan on Monday's Second Captains podcast and he was pretty scathing about Leinster's entire set up for this match. He gave Connacht their dues but he thought Leinster's defence, their constantly trying to slow the pace down, being completely unwilling to counterattack and not "resourcing the rucks" was all very basic stuff and that anybody who watched Connacht play at all this season should have known better.


  • #838
    WarZ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 972 ✭✭✭WarZ


    Shelflife wrote: »

    As regards a stadium, well thats up to Connacht to sort out and get up and running and thats what they are in the middle of doing, its going to be a slow process but at least a start has been made and the win at the weekend will be a great boost.

    Will the IRFU help out with the stadium ? I cant see any reason why they wouldnt but they will be sensible about it and will expect the Connacht branch to do most of the heavy lifting,which Connacht are happy to do.


    The IRFU are going to be extremely cautious about any upgrades to stadiums after having to bank roll Munster for the Thomond redevelopment. Connacht should see how things go next season and if there is still the projected demand then apply for redevelopment.

    I would love to see Connacht become a powerhouse in Irish rugby. Who would have thought a few years ago that we would be seeing the province standings in this order:
    Connacht
    Leinster
    Ulster
    Munster

    Amazing year.


  • #839
    Billysays no
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭Billysays no


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Listening to Shane Horgan on Monday's Second Captains podcast and he was pretty scathing about Leinster's entire set up for this match. He gave Connacht their dues but he thought Leinster's defence, their constantly trying to slow the pace down, being completely unwilling to counterattack and not "resourcing the rucks" was all very basic stuff and that anybody who watched Connacht play at all this season should have known better.

    on a serious note, is that what we are to witness in sa. and if so how can it be changed?


  • #840
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Billysays no wrote: »
    on a serious note, is that what we are to witness in sa

    Why would it be?


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  • #841
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,937 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Billysays no wrote: »
    on a serious note, is that what we are to witness in sa. and if so how can it be changed?

    Well unless Leinster or Connacht are planning on heading down to South Africa in the summer your question is irrelevant.


  • #842
    b.gud
    Registered Users Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭b.gud


    Good to see they made up

    https://twitter.com/Inphosports/status/738750517241860096


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