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Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

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Comments

  • #8312
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,720 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    working back on your figures I assume your sending in circa 1.2 million litres, taking 100k drawings/ 5.5 cl feed costs/36k rental costs (200) acres that would mean your total costs less feed drawings and rental are sub 12 cent a litre, pretty amazing figures given you have expanded your herd considerably and are carrying a lot of replacement stock
    Assumption is the mother of all fook ups I heard somewhere once


  • #8313
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,720 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    kevthegaff wrote: »
    Should sfp be included seeing it is tied to the land and should be added to the land charge or opportunity cost? Land type should account also?

    Sfp hard to include Kev as everyone's different .ive said it before that the pm results Tegasc print with mikey waving false cops are totally misleading .they don't include a labour charge ,land charge ,debt repayment.all 3 are a cruical cop as without land you've no where to milk cows and without labour you've no slave to run the show and on debt nearly every farmer has some .a standard labour charge for 50 hour week should be included as standard I think and all land should have a standard value say 180/200 an acre .


  • #8314
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,462 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Reading this and dairy guys discussing whether or not to include land and labour costs. Ye should try suckling, Teagasc won't allow discussion beyond Gross Margin. No mention of fixed costs allowed.


  • #8315
    alps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,285 ✭✭✭alps


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    Reading this and dairy guys discussing whether or not to include land and labour costs. Ye should try suckling, Teagasc won't allow discussion beyond Gross Margin. No mention of fixed costs allowed.

    Can appreciate your pain Patsy and wouldn't make light of it....however most guys here won't work for nothing for any sustained period...


  • #8316
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,358 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    I wonder why Patsy?

    Trying to hide the reality from farmers in any enterprise does them a disservice.
    Give them the info and let them make their own decisions.


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  • #8317
    keep going
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,551 ✭✭✭keep going


    kowtow wrote: »
    Don't agree at all - I wish people wouldn't assume that proper P&L budgeting is for comparison - that's the last thing it's for.

    The purpose of a P&L is to understand the inherent profitability or otherwise of a business. It's for decision making.

    Failing to include a labour or land charge in a pro forma budget would suggest that one could expand ad infinitum, with a milk price of about 25-30c / litre... which would be a critical error if at some point you expected either to be paid for your own labour or to gain a return on (or acquire more) land.

    But where do you draw the line on these notional figures, should you be basing it on the purchase price of your farm given in alot our competitors they buy the whole business and mortage it over x number of years.then if you are acessing long term profitably do you include the replacement cost with new on every implement or building.i suppose what im trying to say can be best exampled by new zealand, relatively cheap system of production but the servicing the capital involved is killing them


  • #8318
    Jaysus Christ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 136 ✭✭Jaysus Christ


    Can't believe ye don't know what weekly wage your on. The whole idea is to get a wage. I give myself €1000 a week and I don't have to touch bfp.


  • #8319
    Sam Kade
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,297 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    Jaysus Christ wrote: »
    Can't believe ye don't know what weekly wage your on. The whole idea is to get a wage. I give myself €1000 a week and I don't have to touch bfp.

    That's a nice round figure from farming.


  • #8320
    WheatenBriar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,170 ✭✭✭WheatenBriar


    Sam Kade wrote: »
    That's a nice round figure from farming.

    He's still trolling,I see,I stuck him on ignore
    You don't see his troll posts when you do that,just quoted posts in other peoples replies
    Theres a tab in your user control panel

    Still it gets rid of most of the shoite


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll


  • #8321
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,084 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    Had a contractor/dairy who's says their COP was 14c a litre, find it hard to believe most farmers these days:-D


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  • #8322
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,720 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    kevthegaff wrote: »
    Had a contractor/dairy who's says their COP was 14c a litre, find it hard to believe most farmers these days:-D

    Pile of ****e Kev ,doing himself and dairy farmers in general a total disservice throwing a figure like that our


  • #8323
    jaymla627
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,128 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    kevthegaff wrote: »
    Had a contractor/dairy who's says their COP was 14c a litre, find it hard to believe most farmers these days:-D

    More then likely wasn't accouting for machinery and work done by contracting side of business for dairy farm, diseal/machinery maintaine/repayments come to 3 c/l here on top of contracting costs which 3 c/l as well, a lot of guys have their heads in the sand about their true cop


  • #8324
    Farmer Ed
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Farmer Ed


    I think the elephant in the room here is if we calculate our cop differently to other countrys. How do we actually know how compedtive we actually are? Also cost is just one element of overall profitability. I agree that people making silly claims about being able to produce milk at unrealistically low costs are not helping any of us.

    You don't hear grape producers in the champaine region competing with each other as to who can produce the cheapest grapes.


  • #8325
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,791 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Jaysus Christ wrote: »
    Can't believe ye don't know what weekly wage your on. The whole idea is to get a wage. I give myself €1000 a week and I don't have to touch bfp.
    only 1000, you're selling yourself short there lad


  • #8326
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,720 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    whelan2 wrote: »
    only 1000, you're selling yourself short there lad

    Wouldn't get outta bed for less than that


  • #8327
    Jaysus Christ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 136 ✭✭Jaysus Christ


    its the least I would take for the hours I put in. I won't be calving this many cows in ten years time. Or maybe none at all.


  • #8328
    Jaysus Christ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 136 ✭✭Jaysus Christ


    WheatenBriar wrote: »
    He's still trolling,I see,I stuck him on ignore
    You don't see his troll posts when you do that,just quoted posts in other peoples replies
    Theres a tab in your user control panel

    Still it gets rid of most of the shoite


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

    You must have been one of these €500+ an acre for 5 year boyos.


  • #8329
    Farmer Ed
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Farmer Ed


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    Wouldn't get outta bed for less than that

    If I remember correctly. Someone with a similar sounding name is quoted as saying the love of money is not a good thing anyway.


  • #8330
    Jaysus Christ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 136 ✭✭Jaysus Christ


    Farmer Ed wrote: »
    If I remember correctly. Someone with a similar sounding name is quoted as saying the love of money is not a good thing anyway.

    He also said love thy neighbour.
    Then another lad said don't covet your neighbour wife or commit adultery.


  • #8331
    Milked out
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭Milked out


    https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/irish-milk-production-falls-in-april-compared-to-last-year

    May will be a proper gauge as the weather in April knocked things back this year as well as all the milk held till April 15 for qouta. I reckon may will still be up on last year


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  • #8332
    Farmer Ed
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Farmer Ed


    http://danskofoods.com/dairygold-warn-of-milk-price-cut/


  • #8333
    Sam Kade
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,297 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    Farmer Ed wrote: »
    http://danskofoods.com/dairygold-warn-of-milk-price-cut/

    Not sustainable for Dairygold to subsidise milk prices but the farmer can sustain any price :rolleyes:


  • #8334
    kowtow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    keep going wrote: »
    But where do you draw the line on these notional figures, should you be basing it on the purchase price of your farm given in alot our competitors they buy the whole business and mortage it over x number of years.then if you are acessing long term profitably do you include the replacement cost with new on every implement or building.i suppose what im trying to say can be best exampled by new zealand, relatively cheap system of production but the servicing the capital involved is killing them

    The means of finance (i.e. mortgage, lottery win etc, theft by ancestor) is irrelevant, as is the purchase price. You base the land cost on a sensible rental value and the labour cost on some standardised wage - it actually doesn't need endless discussion, it just needs to be there. I've seen the average industrial wage mentioned in Teagasc figures, no reason not to use that.

    Very good point about New Zealand - keep expanding based on cheap (notional) variable costs and when things get tough you find labour has to be paid & fixed costs & capital have to be serviced....


  • #8335
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,462 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    So for the ignorant, like myself :rolleyes:. Land Cost is the market rental cost of similar land. It doesn't relate to purchase cost of land whatsoever. Is that correct?


  • #8336
    WheatenBriar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,170 ✭✭✭WheatenBriar


    patsy_mccabe wrote: »
    So for the ignorant, like myself :rolleyes:. Land Cost is the market rental cost of similar land. It doesn't relate to purchase cost of land whatsoever. Is that correct?
    Whoever says thats correct is talking daft
    Its a cod applying a rental cost because if you were renting your land you wouldnt have your own enterprise on it in the first place so nothing to apply any cost to
    There is no opportunity cost either unless the rental is higher than the profit you'd make on it


  • #8337
    Injuryprone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭Injuryprone


    Farmer Ed wrote: »
    http://danskofoods.com/dairygold-warn-of-milk-price-cut/

    That article is only about a year out of date


  • #8338
    kowtow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    WheatenBriar wrote: »
    Whoever says thats correct is talking daft
    Its a cod applying a rental cost because if you were renting your land you wouldnt have your own enterprise on it in the first place so nothing to apply any cost to
    There is no opportunity cost either unless the rental is higher than the profit you'd make on it

    If my daddy dies and leaves me a shop full of diamonds, and I sell the diamonds at £10 a kg, 10 1 kg diamonds a day, and I pay the shop girl £100 a day, do I have a profitable business?


  • #8339
    WheatenBriar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,170 ✭✭✭WheatenBriar


    kowtow wrote: »
    If my daddy dies and leaves me a shop full of diamonds, and I sell the diamonds at £10 a kg, 10 1 kg diamonds a day, and I pay the shop girl £100 a day, do I have a profitable business?
    That with respect is a ridiculous comparison
    Not relevant to imaginary land charges as the land owned by the farmer is the tool used to make new income
    The farmer isn't selling a perch a day
    I may aswell say a wellington charge to myself is appropriate as I'm wearing Daddies wellies even though I own them


  • #8340
    Farmer Ed
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Farmer Ed


    https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/farmers-split-over-introduction-of-milk-supply-control-measures/


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  • #8341
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    WheatenBriar wrote: »
    That with respect is a ridiculous comparison
    Not relevant to imaginary land charges as the land owned by the farmer is the tool used to make new income
    The farmer isn't selling a perch a day
    I may aswell say a wellington charge to myself is appropriate as I'm wearing Daddies wellies even though I own them
    The true return would have to be compared to what you would receive if you rented the land out.

    I would get a higher return if I had let my farm out for the last few years. But next year I will be making more than the rental price so it's a moot comparison for me.

    But I have been aware that better returns were there if I wanted/needed them but the farm is now beyond that development stage.

    Tbh, it's an important figure to keep in mind. If you are consistently getting lower returns from the system you're farming than you would from renting, there is a huge opportunity cost in not letting it and finding other work, if that's what you want to do.

    But some people (like me) choose not to rent at times.


This discussion has been closed.
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