Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

jaymla627 wrote: »

working back on your figures I assume your sending in circa 1.2 million litres, taking 100k drawings/ 5.5 cl feed costs/36k rental costs (200) acres that would mean your total costs less feed drawings and rental are sub 12 cent a litre, pretty amazing figures given you have expanded your herd considerably and are carrying a lot of replacement stock

Assumption is the mother of all fook ups I heard somewhere once

kevthegaff wrote: »

Should sfp be included seeing it is tied to the land and should be added to the land charge or opportunity cost? Land type should account also?

Sfp hard to include Kev as everyone's different .ive said it before that the pm results Tegasc print with mikey waving false cops are totally misleading .they don't include a labour charge ,land charge ,debt repayment.all 3 are a cruical cop as without land you've no where to milk cows and without labour you've no slave to run the show and on debt nearly every farmer has some .a standard labour charge for 50 hour week should be included as standard I think and all land should have a standard value say 180/200 an acre .

patsy_mccabe

Reading this and dairy guys discussing whether or not to include land and labour costs. Ye should try suckling, Teagasc won't allow discussion beyond Gross Margin. No mention of fixed costs allowed.

alps

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Reading this and dairy guys discussing whether or not to include land and labour costs. Ye should try suckling, Teagasc won't allow discussion beyond Gross Margin. No mention of fixed costs allowed.

Can appreciate your pain Patsy and wouldn't make light of it....however most guys here won't work for nothing for any sustained period...

Water John

I wonder why Patsy?

Trying to hide the reality from farmers in any enterprise does them a disservice.
Give them the info and let them make their own decisions.

keep going

kowtow wrote: »

Don't agree at all - I wish people wouldn't assume that proper P&L budgeting is for comparison - that's the last thing it's for.

The purpose of a P&L is to understand the inherent profitability or otherwise of a business. It's for decision making.

Failing to include a labour or land charge in a pro forma budget would suggest that one could expand ad infinitum, with a milk price of about 25-30c / litre... which would be a critical error if at some point you expected either to be paid for your own labour or to gain a return on (or acquire more) land.

But where do you draw the line on these notional figures, should you be basing it on the purchase price of your farm given in alot our competitors they buy the whole business and mortage it over x number of years.then if you are acessing long term profitably do you include the replacement cost with new on every implement or building.i suppose what im trying to say can be best exampled by new zealand, relatively cheap system of production but the servicing the capital involved is killing them

Can't believe ye don't know what weekly wage your on. The whole idea is to get a wage. I give myself €1000 a week and I don't have to touch bfp.

Sam Kade

Jaysus Christ wrote: »

Can't believe ye don't know what weekly wage your on. The whole idea is to get a wage. I give myself €1000 a week and I don't have to touch bfp.

That's a nice round figure from farming.

WheatenBriar

Sam Kade wrote: »

That's a nice round figure from farming.

He's still trolling,I see,I stuck him on ignore
You don't see his troll posts when you do that,just quoted posts in other peoples replies
Theres a tab in your user control panel

Still it gets rid of most of the shoite

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

kevthegaff

Had a contractor/dairy who's says their COP was 14c a litre, find it hard to believe most farmers these days:-D

kevthegaff wrote: »

Had a contractor/dairy who's says their COP was 14c a litre, find it hard to believe most farmers these days:-D

Pile of ****e Kev ,doing himself and dairy farmers in general a total disservice throwing a figure like that our

jaymla627

kevthegaff wrote: »

Had a contractor/dairy who's says their COP was 14c a litre, find it hard to believe most farmers these days:-D

More then likely wasn't accouting for machinery and work done by contracting side of business for dairy farm, diseal/machinery maintaine/repayments come to 3 c/l here on top of contracting costs which 3 c/l as well, a lot of guys have their heads in the sand about their true cop

I think the elephant in the room here is if we calculate our cop differently to other countrys. How do we actually know how compedtive we actually are? Also cost is just one element of overall profitability. I agree that people making silly claims about being able to produce milk at unrealistically low costs are not helping any of us.

You don't hear grape producers in the champaine region competing with each other as to who can produce the cheapest grapes.

whelan2

Jaysus Christ wrote: »

Can't believe ye don't know what weekly wage your on. The whole idea is to get a wage. I give myself €1000 a week and I don't have to touch bfp.

only 1000, you're selling yourself short there lad

whelan2 wrote: »

only 1000, you're selling yourself short there lad

Wouldn't get outta bed for less than that

its the least I would take for the hours I put in. I won't be calving this many cows in ten years time. Or maybe none at all.

WheatenBriar wrote: »

He's still trolling,I see,I stuck him on ignore
You don't see his troll posts when you do that,just quoted posts in other peoples replies
Theres a tab in your user control panel

Still it gets rid of most of the shoite

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

You must have been one of these €500+ an acre for 5 year boyos.

mahoney_j wrote: »

Wouldn't get outta bed for less than that

If I remember correctly. Someone with a similar sounding name is quoted as saying the love of money is not a good thing anyway.

Farmer Ed wrote: »

If I remember correctly. Someone with a similar sounding name is quoted as saying the love of money is not a good thing anyway.

He also said love thy neighbour.
Then another lad said don't covet your neighbour wife or commit adultery.

Milked out

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/irish-milk-production-falls-in-april-compared-to-last-year

May will be a proper gauge as the weather in April knocked things back this year as well as all the milk held till April 15 for qouta. I reckon may will still be up on last year

http://danskofoods.com/dairygold-warn-of-milk-price-cut/

Sam Kade

Farmer Ed wrote: »

http://danskofoods.com/dairygold-warn-of-milk-price-cut/

Not sustainable for Dairygold to subsidise milk prices but the farmer can sustain any price :rolleyes:

kowtow

keep going wrote: »

But where do you draw the line on these notional figures, should you be basing it on the purchase price of your farm given in alot our competitors they buy the whole business and mortage it over x number of years.then if you are acessing long term profitably do you include the replacement cost with new on every implement or building.i suppose what im trying to say can be best exampled by new zealand, relatively cheap system of production but the servicing the capital involved is killing them

The means of finance (i.e. mortgage, lottery win etc, theft by ancestor) is irrelevant, as is the purchase price. You base the land cost on a sensible rental value and the labour cost on some standardised wage - it actually doesn't need endless discussion, it just needs to be there. I've seen the average industrial wage mentioned in Teagasc figures, no reason not to use that.

Very good point about New Zealand - keep expanding based on cheap (notional) variable costs and when things get tough you find labour has to be paid & fixed costs & capital have to be serviced....

patsy_mccabe

So for the ignorant, like myself :rolleyes:. Land Cost is the market rental cost of similar land. It doesn't relate to purchase cost of land whatsoever. Is that correct?

WheatenBriar

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

So for the ignorant, like myself :rolleyes:. Land Cost is the market rental cost of similar land. It doesn't relate to purchase cost of land whatsoever. Is that correct?

Whoever says thats correct is talking daft
Its a cod applying a rental cost because if you were renting your land you wouldnt have your own enterprise on it in the first place so nothing to apply any cost to
There is no opportunity cost either unless the rental is higher than the profit you'd make on it

Injuryprone

Farmer Ed wrote: »

http://danskofoods.com/dairygold-warn-of-milk-price-cut/

That article is only about a year out of date

kowtow

WheatenBriar wrote: »

Whoever says thats correct is talking daft
Its a cod applying a rental cost because if you were renting your land you wouldnt have your own enterprise on it in the first place so nothing to apply any cost to
There is no opportunity cost either unless the rental is higher than the profit you'd make on it

If my daddy dies and leaves me a shop full of diamonds, and I sell the diamonds at £10 a kg, 10 1 kg diamonds a day, and I pay the shop girl £100 a day, do I have a profitable business?

WheatenBriar

kowtow wrote: »

If my daddy dies and leaves me a shop full of diamonds, and I sell the diamonds at £10 a kg, 10 1 kg diamonds a day, and I pay the shop girl £100 a day, do I have a profitable business?

That with respect is a ridiculous comparison
Not relevant to imaginary land charges as the land owned by the farmer is the tool used to make new income
The farmer isn't selling a perch a day
I may aswell say a wellington charge to myself is appropriate as I'm wearing Daddies wellies even though I own them