Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

alps · 27-05-2016 11:08AM

leg wax wrote: »

i dont want to see farmer go broke but if they have made bad business moves then its their own fault,

The only bad business move a farmer that can produce milk at a cost of 20c/l has made........is getting himself a wife and kids and mortgage.....

If he didn't do this it seems he was a great businessman. .

Dawggone · 27-05-2016 12:04PM

Waffletraktor wrote: »

I don't know about the exact costings for dairy but I guess it would be aiming for a sub 19c/l cost being you future but in tillage to make money it's getting to stage of stripping back to make money on a spend of sub750£/ha is the new-old norm in milling wheat. .

+1.
Not trying to go off topic...
I'm applying 50l/ha of (urea) N20 + 2kg/ha of MgS04 to wheats here with the last couple of days. Will try to get 3 doses on during grain fill...
Reasons are ; the very mild winter brought a serious attack of aphids resulting in about 75% of wheat being infected with bydv. Now the yield loss will be about 1t/ha, but it's the resulting loss of protein that may affect the market. In my experience bydv wheat usually comes in at around 9 to 10.5% protein. That would mean that many many tons of milling would end up in feed wheat. Couple that with a weak Rouble and Hryvnia...

Hope I'm wrong.

Waffletraktor · 27-05-2016 12:05PM

alps wrote: »

The only bad business move a farmer that can produce milk at a cost of 20c/l has made........is getting himself a wife and kids and mortgage.....

If he didn't do this it seems he was a great businessman. .

Depends if it's the new normal for more than, what would most guys reckon? Atleast another 12-18months until either Europe goes brute force and puts in controls again or you have massive no.'s leave. Am I wrong in that assumption?

Speaking from a tillage point of view it's becoming a time of slash and burn and find the new normal (minimum input, fixed cost and forget chasing yield) as its too easy to put a pre or even post Panamax boat in somewhere now. Looking a more low in-put/output Spring cropping as winter crops need too much spending. Otherwise go back to head in the sand and hope for the next price boom to come within 5+ years.

pedigree 6 · 27-05-2016 12:07PM

freedominacup wrote: »

Well self praise is no praise so I'll have to refer you to Mrs freedom for an unbiased opinion.

Freedom for the taoiseach.

I'd vote for ya.

Waffletraktor · 27-05-2016 12:10PM

Dawggone wrote: »

+1.
Not trying to go off topic...
I'm applying 50l/ha of (urea) N20 + 2kg/ha of MgS04 to wheats here with the last couple of days. Will try to get 3 doses on during grain fill...
Reasons are ; the very mild winter brought a serious attack of aphids resulting in about 75% of wheat being infected with bydv. Now the yield loss will be about 1t/ha, but it's the resulting loss of protein that may affect the market. In my experience bydv wheat usually comes in at around 9 to 10.5% protein. That would mean that many many tons of milling would end up in feed wheat. Couple that with a weak Rouble and Hryvnia...

Hope I'm wrong.

You'll be left with sheds full of stuff no one wants or will make lots if can beat the average of locals. There was a few aphids around and full of flea beetle.
They have been putting feed wheat into the Us east coast as its cheaper than trucking it from the grain belts or barging it to the end of the Mississippi on the stupidly big barges and despite cheap fuel out of the U.K. For the last 2 years.

For us if it goes bad we will have to go all spring cropping for a few years, couldn't afford the spend on winter crops. Until world stock get eaten up it is going to be tight and with a world record corn harvest expected... Atleast proteins are going the right way.

Milked out · 27-05-2016 12:25PM

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Dawggone wrote: »

+1.
Not trying to go off topic...
I'm applying 50l/ha of (urea) N20 + 2kg/ha of MgS04 to wheats here with the last couple of days. Will try to get 3 doses on during grain fill...
Reasons are ; the very mild winter brought a serious attack of aphids resulting in about 75% of wheat being infected with bydv. Now the yield loss will be about 1t/ha, but it's the resulting loss of protein that may affect the market. In my experience bydv wheat usually comes in at around 9 to 10.5% protein. That would mean that many many tons of milling would end up in feed wheat. Couple that with a weak Rouble and Hryvnia...

Hope I'm wrong.

You'll be left with sheds full of stuff no one wants or will make lots if can beat the average of locals. There was a few aphids around and full of flea beetle.
They have been putting feed wheat into the Us east coast as its cheaper than trucking it from the grain belts or barging it to the end of the Mississippi on the stupidly big barges and despite cheap fuel out of the U.K. For the last 2 years.

For us if it goes bad we will have to go all spring cropping for a few years, couldn't afford the spend on winter crops. Until world stock get eaten up it is going to be tight and with a world record corn harvest expected... Atleast proteins are going the right way.

Brazil I think are importing maize again, so maize is holding steady price wise i think. can ye do anything with protein crops in the UK? Are wheat and barley too much of your area without much of an alternative. Or sell kale to the vegans or something. Obviously I know f-all about tillage but assuming you can only go so far in cost cutting what else can ye do?

Waffletraktor · 27-05-2016 12:39PM

Milked out wrote: »

Brazil I think are importing maize again, so maize is holding steady price wise i think. can ye do anything with protein crops in the UK? Are wheat and barley too much of your area without much of an alternative. Or sell kale to the vegans or something. Obviously I know f-all about tillage but assuming you can only go so far in cost cutting what else can ye do?

Your more or less bang on correct, beans and peas are the main protein crops working on the more fringe crops to increase incomes from them. It's not much of an issue for us as there's scale and financial backing (so long as hit income targets) only a handful could live with but the run of the mill farm is what I worry for. Might be looking for a pair of stock people soon.
The trade a few years ago was cheerleader 20t of wheat per ha by 2020. Now never mind how mad it would be to pile on more feed crops to the heap no one wants. Like milk until the market finds its new norm or its forced upon you again.

Farmer Ed · 27-05-2016 12:44PM

alps wrote: »

The only bad business move a farmer that can produce milk at a cost of 20c/l has made........is getting himself a wife and kids and mortgage.....

If he didn't do this it seems he was a great businessman. .

Unfortunately it is becoming the new norm for one spouse to have an off farm job to support the farm. Survival could well be decided by who the farmer sleeps with and how much they get paid.

alps · 27-05-2016 01:01PM

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Depends if it's the new normal for more than, what would most guys reckon? Atleast another 12-18months until either Europe goes brute force and puts in controls again or you have massive no.'s leave. Am I wrong in that assumption?
.

Brute force may be the end result. We are in the phase of producers and politicians pointing at each other saying it's up to you to fix this mess while all those in the middle remain largely unaffected or in positive territory.
It may take too long for the hard ons since the removal of quotas to wear off for farmers to take on that responsibility....as the saying goes ..A standing dic* has no conscience...

The EU will not let the European family farm model disintegrate. It will play hardball for quiet some time in the hope that fortunes will recover before before it really needs to intervene...if it plays out for as long as your timeframe suggests, that will mean quotas..

Bass Reeves · 27-05-2016 01:08PM

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Unfortunately it is becoming the new norm for one spouse to have an off farm job to support the farm. Survival could well be decided by who the farmer sleeps with and how much they get paid.

Why is that unfortunate or strange. In drystock situations there are a lot of farms where both have outside employment. I think a lot of farmers are deluded into thinking that just because a farm gave a living wage to a family in previous generation that it still can. Before the great famine it was possible to support a family on a few acres of potatoes and the pig paid the rent. Would it still be possible to do that yes but you would have to be willing to live that life.

The big issue with dairy farming is that now those that milk cows will have to survive peaks and troughs of milk prices. The question is which is better off a mid sized farmers milking 70-120 as a single labour unit with a spouse having a job outside the home or a farm where the farmer is milking 150+ cows with the spouse working on the farm and in the home.

I think that a lot of dairy farmers need to sit down and decide what is the most viable option for them. As well they need to decide on what work life balance they wish to have. Another side issue is that if the government wished for dairying to be a success there needs to be ability for sole traders to retain some profits untaxed within the business to tide them over troughs. Income averaging is not the same as while it protects income in peaks it leaves a nasty tax bill during troughs

20silkcut · 27-05-2016 01:08PM

alps wrote: »

It may take too long for the hard ons since the removal of quotas to wear off for farmers to take on that responsibility....as the saying goes ..A standing dic* has no conscience...

..

Jaysus there is a forest of standing d*cks out there at the moment and nowhere to stick em.

Injuryprone · 27-05-2016 01:42PM

freedominacup wrote: »

Well self praise is no praise so I'll have to refer you to Mrs freedom for an unbiased opinion.

Does your name not give away the answer

:)

freedominacup · 27-05-2016 01:45PM

Injuryprone wrote: »

Does your name not give away the answer:)

No. Jesus. It comes from a kid's movie.

Farmer Ed · 27-05-2016 01:45PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Why is that unfortunate or strange. In drystock situations there are a lot of farms where both have outside employment. I think a lot of farmers are deluded into thinking that just because a farm gave a living wage to a family in previous generation that it still can. Before the great famine it was possible to support a family on a few acres of potatoes and the pig paid the rent. Would it still be possible to do that yes but you would have to be willing to live that life.

The big issue with dairy farming is that now those that milk cows will have to survive peaks and troughs of milk prices. The question is which is better off a mid sized farmers milking 70-120 as a single labour unit with a spouse having a job outside the home or a farm where the farmer is milking 150+ cows with the spouse working on the farm and in the home.

I think that a lot of dairy farmers need to sit down and decide what is the most viable option for them. As well they need to decide on what work life balance they wish to have. Another side issue is that if the government wished for dairying to be a success there needs to be ability for sole traders to retain some profits untaxed within the business to tide them over troughs. Income averaging is not the same as while it protects income in peaks it leaves a nasty tax bill during troughs

If both spouse have to take up off farm employment to subsidise the farm. Maybe taking up golf might be a Less expensive hobby than farming.

whelan2 · 27-05-2016 03:55PM

http://bit.ly/1THiAeY

wats the craic · 27-05-2016 04:37PM

april milk price protein 3.28 . bf 4.07. base price was 25.25 cent a litre incl vat .plus .25 bonus for tbc and scc . so my price was in total 26.838 cpl .

Water John · 27-05-2016 04:47PM

Sorry Craic, were you only paid today?
If so, what processor is using you as a credit source? That would ave at 42 days credit.

wats the craic · 27-05-2016 05:16PM

Water John wrote: »

Sorry Craic, were you only paid today?
If so, what processor is using you as a credit source? That would ave at 42 days credit.

no got paid on the 23 as always just busy did not have time to up the price

Milked out · 27-05-2016 05:37PM

whelan2 wrote: »

http://bit.ly/1THiAeY

Interesting that ourselves Germany and Netherlands have but only 16% of extra milk in when France and Belgium have put a way higher percentage of extra milk in, 86% in Belgiums case

atlantic mist · 27-05-2016 05:46PM

anyone at the milk flex evenings?
new MSA for anyone wishing to participate....current one doesnt seem to cover the loan period...i thought it was for life and my childrens life and their childrens, must route it out

us production up, cheese mountains
eu production up, powder mountains
oz production down

big question is who will drop first eu or us and when?? we wouldnt be helping the cause for at least another year, plenty of young stock for next season drop the followng

eu doesnt want to set in but the will if needs be but its a slow and complex system, would hope that some sort of concession be put in for export driven companies targeting outside the eu if larger countries get their way which i still think wouldnt happen at least not as we had before possible something to do with carbon emissions, considering our processors lobbied hard for quotas removal...and i wonder can companies can they sue governments for imposing a national quota which negitively affecting their profit

mf240 · 27-05-2016 06:46PM

What effect would a brexit have on milk price do ye think??

Farmer Ed · 27-05-2016 07:07PM

wats the craic wrote: »

no got paid on the 23 as always just busy did not have time to up the price

What co op was that? I thought most of them paid on the 18th now?

whelan2 · 27-05-2016 07:08PM

Farmer Ed wrote: »

What co op was that? I thought most of them paid on the 18th now?

Is he strathroy?

Farmer Ed · 27-05-2016 08:30PM

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1012158458861470&id=182354901841834

I'm saying nothing!

Jaysus Christ · 27-05-2016 09:34PM

whelan2 wrote: »

Have just been reading the journal when I posted, so much doom and gloom, a few good letters on the letters page and on the dealers pages the story of a farmer in the uk with 4 robots which are costing him a bomb in repairs /repayments..... On the plus side Katherine o leary has a good article on the Greenfield open day

Fair play to Katherine for keeping the few euros coming in since Tim got the boot from the ifa and the milk not paying for itself.

Milked out · 27-05-2016 09:44PM

On the milk flex, I think somebody already mentioned it a while back but the bank would most likely match the interest rate Glanbia are offering, all it takes is a bit of competition to bring em down.

einn32 · 28-05-2016 01:34AM

http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/agribusiness/dairy/murray-goulburn-offers-milk-supply-deals-to-disaffected-fonterra-dairy-farmers/news-story/eb272f03d32934db8df982c3dcb8179d

pedigree 6 · 28-05-2016 07:35AM

einn32 wrote: »

http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/agribusiness/dairy/murray-goulburn-offers-milk-supply-deals-to-disaffected-fonterra-dairy-farmers/news-story/eb272f03d32934db8df982c3dcb8179d

Looks to me like they are going to copy us and try and tie you down with msa agreements.

Bass Reeves · 28-05-2016 09:54AM

Farmer Ed wrote: »

If both spouse have to take up off farm employment to subsidise the farm. Maybe taking up golf might be a Less expensive hobby than farming.

It is not about both spouses having to take up off farm employment it is rather than most drystock farms up to and maybe above 100 acres can be run with an own labour input of 20-25 hours a week maybe less if set up right. If you use contractors for slurry, silage etc. There seems to be no issue with a farmer running working as a contractor or spending the day in the mart and hauling cattle. But it is scaroilige for him to slave as a postman, mechanic, a teacher etc. I was referring to both spouses working in a drystock situation. I am in that situation and the farm is not a hobby and i hate golf

In a dairy situation I see no reason what again it is unreasonable to see a spouse working again a lot of well set up dairy farms with 70-120 cows can be run as a singe labour unit with the use of contractors. Having an external income means that you are not chasing every euro and every penny need not be a prisioner

Farmer Ed · 28-05-2016 11:18AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It is not about both spouses having to take up off farm employment it is rather than most drystock farms up to and maybe above 100 acres can be run with an own labour input of 20-25 hours a week maybe less if set up right. If you use contractors for slurry, silage etc. There seems to be no issue with a farmer running working as a contractor or spending the day in the mart and hauling cattle. But it is scaroilige for him to slave as a postman, mechanic, a teacher etc. I was referring to both spouses working in a drystock situation. I am in that situation and the farm is not a hobby and i hate golf

In a dairy situation I see no reason what again it is unreasonable to see a spouse working again a lot of well set up dairy farms with 70-120 cows can be run as a singe labour unit with the use of contractors. Having an external income means that you are not chasing every euro and every penny need not be a prisioner

It is a sad reality all the same that farms that once we're able to support to families now can't even support one. Working two jobs is not. easy. Most people would consider a 39 hour week as enough.

Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

Comments