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France on Strike

2

Comments

  • #32
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38,989 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #33
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,360 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Happening right when the Euro's are about to commence talk about bad timing.:mad:


  • #34
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    That's what the government is saying the reforms will do but I have my doubts. They want to penalise business owners for employing people on temporary contracts to encourage them to take people on on permanent contracts. But I doubt that will encourage extra employment.


  • #35
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38,989 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #36
    scopper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 870 ✭✭✭scopper


    Ah yes, they need to stop striking and accept all the things we find make us miserable. Only then will they be considered as mature, level-headed and easily-le...I mean, level-headed, as us.


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  • #37
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,059 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Happening right when the Euro's are about to commence talk about bad timing.:mad:

    The French have realised the best way to stop ISIS is to deny them fuel for getting about.


  • #38
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    Oh thank god!

    It's important in a changing world that some things remain constant.

    43 strikes in the last 7 years.
    This consistency is needed.... may they continue to hold the sky's of Europe hostage to their every whim!
    Wait till they hear what the Luas Drivers are on.


  • #39
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38,989 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #40
    Superhorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 848 ✭✭✭Superhorse


    whiskeyman wrote: »
    If only it did that during WW2...

    Nice stereotyping.


  • #41
    PowerToWait
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭PowerToWait


    Superhorse wrote: »
    Nice stereotyping.


    A hackneyed disregard for the facts, not to mention overlooking Ireland's less than glorious role in the same conflict.

    But shur it's funny.


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  • #42
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,734 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    There is also the problem that it costs a French employer more to employ someone than any other employer in Europe. Not only is the French minimum wage the highest, but employers pay hugely for the privilege of having someone work for them (especially when they break through the 5 workers or more barrier, and even worse when they hit 50).

    This means that French companies trying to compete internationally are inherently at a disadvantage before they've produced anything. If they've got to shoulder that heavy wage burden, the only way they can manage it is by employing people on short-term contracts.

    FWIW, one of the more contentious issues in this dispute was limiting an employer's liability for "compensation" when they'd negotiated and agreed terms for letting someone go. As things stand, you can take your employer to (the equivalent of) the EAT after you've received your generous golden handshake and claim that you weren't paid enough.

    So businesses are permanently run short-staffed, customers are given the brush-off, there's no incentive for anyone to create "added value", competition is a dirty word, and the results are clear to see: France is an economic basket case, and savvy non-French Europeans are picking over the bones of the mangy coq.

    I'm not complaining too much, because I'm one of them. :cool:


  • #43
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38,989 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #44
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Superhorse wrote: »
    Nice stereotyping.

    It is. And stereotyping is funny. Kudos whiskeyman.


    France is a country unwilling to accept reality. A bit like some of Britain still mourning the Empire and no longer being a world power, France is still mourning les trente glorieuses. It is living beyond its means, has become fat and lazy, and has an entitlement mentality pervading it like no other nation.
    France is headed for a big big crash one day, that will dwarf the ones by the likes of Ireland and Greece.


  • #45
    Filmer Paradise
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭Filmer Paradise


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    There is something just so wrong about this post.

    The effects of the recession are still being felt, even by those who never lost their jobs.


  • #46
    XR3i
    Site Banned Posts: 6,498 ✭✭✭XR3i


    i blame terry henry


  • #47
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,275 ✭✭✭Your Face


    Someone mentioned the war...


  • #48
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,302 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    Alf Stewart. wrote: »
    Except for that one against the Irish in 2009, when the cheating bastards handed the ball beforehand.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLUxMRYJAso

    Well if you're going to bring that old chestnut up we may as well go the whole hog :)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTHCAtI_Mf8


  • #49
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,275 ✭✭✭Your Face


    Snickers Man wrote: »
    Well if you're going to bring that old chestnut up we may as well go the whole hog :)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTHCAtI_Mf8

    Roy kind of went on strike as-well.


  • #50
    The Sidewards Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭The Sidewards Man


    They would want to give up the late night riding, no wonder they can't go to work.


  • #51
    enda1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,165 ✭✭✭enda1


    Why do the Irish turn into mini British parrots whenever France is brought up? Can't we see it for the wonderful country full of history, culture, magnificent beauty and pride that it really is? We're not the ones with the age old rivalry with France, they are historical and contemporary allies who share a similar relaxed attitude, beautiful country and joie de vivre!

    Vive l'Irlande!
    Vive la France!


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  • #52
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,501 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Load of oul bull****, as per usual. Teachers and canteen workers on strike for three months, as if they were affected by a law that limits them to a 68 hour week.


  • #53
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Filmer Paradise wrote: »
    There is something just so wrong about this post.

    The effects of the recession are still being felt, even by those who never lost their jobs.

    But not by many, so not widespread as Perma says.

    And some will, and should, continue to feel the effects - the pre-recession feeling they had was false, borrowed, unrealistic, unsustainable, and irrational. A dream.
    They are now back in reality.

    France is still living a pay tomorrow, rather than what is truly sustainable, standard of living. More subtle, deeper, and more widespread in the economy than the quick bubble the Irish one was.
    The strikes are a tantrum by those who do not recognise the correction needed to their society, pay, and level of social services and support they currently enjoy.
    They can strike, but they cannot buck the economics in the long run.


  • #54
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    While I agree that the Prud'homme system as it stands is ridiculous, THIS law will not work. Penalising people for giving temporary contracts is not going to make them take people on in permanent contracts. It makes no business sense.
    Also, I'd be much less sceptical about this law if it was actually going to do something about the red tape that businesses have to go through.
    Hollande is not the saviour of the French economy, he is just trying to be all things to all men, just to get re-elected next year.
    The whole thing should be scrapped and re-worked.


  • #55
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,734 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    IvyTheTerrible wrote: »
    THIS law will not work. Penalising people for giving temporary contracts is not going to make them take people on in permanent contracts. It makes no business sense. ...
    The whole thing should be scrapped and re-worked.

    You're right: we outsiders can see that there's no point in penalising short-term contracts, because we've all lived with them for decades. Not only that, some of us actually like them because it means we can move on with our lives and careers - or even take a break from time to time (or every 3-4 months in my case :pac: )

    The biggest problem with this law isn't that it won't work, but that no-one - not even the government supposedly responsible for enacting it - has the guts to put it into effect so that *that* bit is done, and other things can be subsequently be worked on. There's so much about France that stifles commercial creativity, while promoting mediocrity, that even relatively determined business people choose the easier option of setting up in anywhere-but-France.

    If last weeks EY report can be believed, the ratio is 50:1 - 50 businesses created in anywhere-but-France for every one business created in France in 2015. That's a lot of jobs not offered to the native population.


  • #56
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    CelticRambler wrote: »
    You're right: we outsiders can see that there's no point in penalising short-term contracts, because we've all lived with them for decades. Not only that, some of us actually like them because it means we can move on with our lives and careers - or even take a break from time to time (or every 3-4 months in my case :pac: )

    The biggest problem with this law isn't that it won't work, but that no-one - not even the government supposedly responsible for enacting it - has the guts to put it into effect so that *that* bit is done, and other things can be subsequently be worked on. There's so much about France that stifles commercial creativity, while promoting mediocrity, that even relatively determined business people choose the easier option of setting up in anywhere-but-France.

    If last weeks EY report can be believed, the ratio is 50:1 - 50 businesses created in anywhere-but-France for every one business created in France in 2015. That's a lot of jobs not offered to the native population.
    I agree.
    I'm an "auto-entrepreneur" which is supposed to make it easier for individuals to become self-employed. But the amount of paperwork is ridiculous, and I don't even employ anyone (eg I have to pay CFE - business rates - even though I don't have a "workplace" as such, I work from home and I already pay significant residential tax. Or I have to change my Caisse Primaire because of course you can't have the same one as when you are an employee/unemployed etc etc ad infinitum)


  • #57
    Bob24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,886 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    drdeadlift wrote: »

    Nice to see a nation willing to fight for what it wants.

    You are not seeing a nation fighting for anything. And most French people don't support the strikes.

    What you are seeing is a union which is losing ground and wants to show it is strong (taking advantage of a weak government). And on the other hand politicians who are building up their image for next year's presidential election (Hollande wants to look like a conciliator, and Valls (the PM) like a strong man who is capable of running country and is an alternative to Hollande ... at the end of their acting game Hollande will probably withdraw the law to show he listens to the people, Valls will probably resign to show he is standing for his convictions, and the union leader (Martinez) will clame he saved workers and they should vote his union in again at he next).

    It is very depressing really: as a Frenchman whether this new labour market law is enacted or not seems irrelevant to me as at this stage most of it has already been amended/removed to cool down initial protests within Hollande's party (and both employers and unions are now saying they don't want it). So the country is now being paralysed to satisfy the ego and posturing of a few union and political leaders who need to rebuild their public image.

    Everybody will win except workers.


  • #58
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,734 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    IvyTheTerrible wrote: »
    (eg I have to pay CFE - business rates - even though I don't have a "workplace" as such, I work from home and I already pay significant residential tax. ...)

    I have an ongoing dispute with the Trésor Public on this point, arguing that my AE is 100% dématérialisé so there is no basis on which to levy a cotisation foncière. So far it's a nil-all draw. I refuse to pay CFE on domestic residence where I do no work :rolleyes: ; they tell me to apply for a reduction, I tell them that would require admitting that the rates are due, they tell me to take it to the Tribunal, I tell them that they need to take it to the Tribunal if they think it's legal to apply a charge to a non-existant property ... then it all goes quiet till the next year's bill.

    But I'm tired of the nil-all stalemate, so I'm going to provoke them a bit next month. :cool:

    (I do want to fight it in court, but I want them to take me so that - hopefully - a successful outcome [for me] will set a precedent. Will let you know if it happens.)


  • #59
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,501 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I'm exhausted just reading that. Fair dues to you.


  • #60
    VincePP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 982 ✭✭✭VincePP


    Many years ago I worked for a US multinational who choose Paris as their European hq. Not a huge company, only about 30 staff in the office.

    They got so pissed off at constant strikes and official meddling they closed office in Paris and moved to near Gatwick after just over a year.

    French unions cause an amazing number of potential jobs to be lost to other countries


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  • #61
    nervous_twitch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 850 ✭✭✭nervous_twitch


    I live and work in France. Although I despise some aspects of the new proposals, it is undendeniable that the law as it is remains largely in favour of employees over here. If you have a CDI you are set. It is next to impossible to get rid of anybody on a permanent contract, and I work with a few who are nothing but a liability to the company, and they know as much.

    I dont think giving everyone a CDD is the solution, thats unfair also, but like Ivy I think it needs to be taken back and reworked.


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